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please fix Scrap Station imbalance - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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eScaper-tsunami
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada313 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 06:05:53
September 23 2010 06:02 GMT
#121
wow that's a big deal... but terran has been crying about their addon positions since day 1... blizzard will probably just shrug it off and put the two in the same category which is "they don't care".

Another one to add, top position on LT has a slightly larger choke on natural expansion compared to the other 3 positions
RuhRoh is my herO
cHaNg-sTa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1058 Posts
September 23 2010 06:12 GMT
#122
I just don't understand Blizzard's obsession with tiny ass maps. They don't really leave a lot of creative ideas open when you have an expansion to expansion travel time of <10 seconds. But then again, 4 warpgate pushes ruin the concept of big map design quite a bit when you can just build a pylon anywhere and warp in a mile away.
Jaedong <3 HOOK'EM HORNS!
TCVeritas
Profile Joined September 2010
United States15 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 06:20:58
September 23 2010 06:17 GMT
#123
On September 23 2010 13:44 kickinhead wrote:
Are you crazy?

Xel has a much too wide open natural that is way too far away from the ramp - ever tried defending there with spine crawlers against hellions or any sort of push?

So I guess there isn't a consensus on any good maps.
On September 23 2010 14:22 iCanada wrote:
Search iCCup in the custom game interface under map creator.

^_^

Will do, thank you. There was another thread about Julyzerg coming to Starcraft 2 and I watched some VOD's of him to get a taste of why everyone loved him so much. The videos were from the 2008 OSL finals and the maps they played on seemed much better then the maps now is Starcraft 2. Maybe (for sure) I don't know to much about the maps they played on but it seemed like they were more balanced and allowed for a much larger variety of strategies, unlike a few maps now which clearly favor one strategy over another. Im think DO and Scrap Station favoring air, such as rushed void rays. I don't know if the maps I saw were the same as the iCCup maps, but if they are similar then I can see why they are better then the blizzard maps, at least a little bit without any real knowledge about them.

Anyway, thank you and I will look up those maps, I still have a lot to learn; its amazing how deep Starcraft 1 is I don't know if there is any other game like it.
Wait and Hope
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
September 23 2010 06:19 GMT
#124
hmmm

Blizzard really needs to hire some mapmakers. All they actually need to do is make half a map, mirror it, change the graphics around a bit.
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
September 23 2010 06:20 GMT
#125
Basically every one of the maps has some kind of symmetry imbalance. :<
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
TheToast
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4808 Posts
September 23 2010 06:27 GMT
#126
Thanks for sharing this with us Zelniq, this just adds to the growing list of ridiculous map imbalance issues. Everyone keeps pointing at ZvT and claiming that the matchup is imbalanced; yet this is just more evidence that it is in fact that maps that may be the main issue.

I seriously hope that SC2 doesn't go the way of Warcraft III, with Blizz maps being the only ones ever played seriously. While that worked okay for Warcraft III with it's heavy emphasis on micro, I don't think anything could kill SC2's chances at being a serious e-sport any quicker than being stuck with the current map pool.
I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6228 Posts
September 23 2010 06:33 GMT
#127
There are also a lot of multiplayer maps where the gas at certain expansions causes weird pathing where scvs end up going around the geyser while mining.
good vibes only
Williowa
Profile Joined April 2010
129 Posts
September 23 2010 06:40 GMT
#128
I also wish ICCUP maps were standard, whenever I play custom melee games I play on them.

Just going to note a few things I've seen in here.

Why is a balanced map in a tournament so important?

Because when the zerg player is trying to spread creep to his natural while holding off a 5 reaper rush, he will have a huge difference between one side of the map or the other. If it is supposed to be 2 creep tumors to get down the ramp so be it, if it is supposed to be 1 (and that would make a lot more sense) then that should be it.

Imagine loosing $40,000, and casters saying, "if only he spread the creep more his roaches would have held that off".

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but all major casted tournaments have to be approved by blizzard. So can't they say, "you play on our maps or we shut down your tournament"?

Remember sc2 is a very "FAST PACED" strategy game. So at heart blizz wants Stepps to be standard, not cross positions in metalopolis. They consider "safe fast expand" an oxy moron.
It's A Zergling Lester
TheOnlyOne
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany155 Posts
September 23 2010 06:53 GMT
#129
I wonder why they dont just make a Map and "mirror" it for each player.

For Zerg you could argue that Minerals at the Bottom are better than the minerals at the top (for the larva to reach), while that doesnt matter as much for the other races.


Hopefully some peops create "good" and "fair" maps in the future ...
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
September 23 2010 07:07 GMT
#130
On September 23 2010 13:44 kickinhead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2010 12:42 iEchoic wrote:
On September 23 2010 12:41 TCVeritas wrote:
Are there any of the 1v1 maps in the game that are "good" maps?


XelNaga Caverns is well-regarded, even though I find it completely boring and dull.


Are you crazy?

Xel has a much too wide open natural that is way too far away from the ramp - ever tried defending there with spine crawlers against hellions or any sort of push?
Dont forget protoss 4 gate is way too strong on that map imo.
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
cocosoft
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1068 Posts
September 23 2010 07:12 GMT
#131
Such imbalances doesn't belong to a strategy game.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ShadowIord
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain32 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 07:17:04
September 23 2010 07:16 GMT
#132
On September 23 2010 12:39 Carthage wrote:
For terran, it would be nice if all ramps faced the same direction and all positions had identical sim-city with add-ons.

But because that is ludicrous, it would be even nicer if add-ons could be placed on either side of a building.



Agree, in some maps is a pain do walling.
Rock n' roll
Nokarot
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1410 Posts
September 23 2010 08:47 GMT
#133
Strange thing for me is that, in sc2, it should have been even easier for them to perfect this kind of stuff, seeing as that every hex is a square/diamond, as opposed to sc1 where they were more rhombus in the mapmaker.

Surely such things should be cleaned up or re-done. I like Scrap station, to be honest- all of you guys are saying "lol just use iccup maps, fuck off blizzard" but I, personally, like the concepts of many of Blizzard maps. Maybe I'm flawed in doing so, but I won't waver on having an opinion. Small things like this, though, make a big difference.

In a game where skill should be the overall deciding factor, luck shouldn't give an advantage to the players right after spawn locations are picked. You might say "Well what if Zerg spawns cross-spots on Metalopolis? Didn't they get lucky?"- That's a different story, as its not so much an advantage as it is leading to a different style of play.

I saw earlier in this thread (didnt read through it all) that a Terran player said "Well I have to deal with building positions all the time.." Aside from big-ramp maps, you can wall off with 3 buildings all the same, whether its an add-on that finishes the wall or a depot.
beep beep boop
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
September 23 2010 08:52 GMT
#134
This only comes to show how little effort Blizzard puts in the maps. A mate of mine used to make some beautiful maps in a game called Action Quake2, but some of the spawns where so imbalanced they never really cached on. The same thing strikes me with Blizzards maps. They are nice to look at, but they haven't play tested them at all.
Dead girls don't say no.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 09:01:46
September 23 2010 08:56 GMT
#135
1. This is not big deal. There are tons of maps where your ramp is incredibly far from starting hatch, consider top scrap station as a bonus and not the right one as a disadvantage.
2. There are so many much more evident errors in mapmaking by blizzard that this thread looks kinda funny.
3. I would like it to be fixed but with blizzard's support of maps this just wont happen.
4. What actually pisses me off is that blizzard sucks at mapmaking but wont allow custom maps to be included in the ladder.
TheDominator
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
New Zealand336 Posts
September 23 2010 09:05 GMT
#136
I actually think that these wont be a MAJOR effect to the result of our gaming, but should be fixed nevertheless. Blizzard is so stubborn they wont consider other ppl's maps. they need to put more effort into this
You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun.
myasQo
Profile Joined August 2010
Russian Federation174 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 09:20:09
September 23 2010 09:16 GMT
#137
I want to add up another shit happening on this map

Left expansion
[image loading]

Right expansion
[image loading]

……………………………………..________
………………………………,.-‘"……………….``~.,
………………………..,.-«……………………………..»-.,
…………………….,/………………………………………..":,
…………………,?………………………………………………\,
………………./…………………………………………………..,}
……………../…………………………………………………,:`^`..}
……………/……………………………………………,:"………/
…………..?…..__…………………………………..:`………../
…………./__.(….."~-,_…………………………,:`………./
………../(_…."~,_…….."~,_………………..,:`…….._/
……….{.._$;_……"=,_……."-,_…….,.-~-,},.~";/….}
………..((…..*~_……."=-._……";,,./`…./«…………../
…,,,___.\`~,……»~.,………………..`…..}…………../
…………(….`=-,,…….`……………………(……;_,,-"
…………/.`~,……`-………………………….\……/\
………….\`~.*-,……………………………….|,./…..\,__
,,_……….}.>-._\……………………………..|…………..`=~-,
…..`=~-,_\_……`\,……………………………\
……………….`=~-,,.\,………………………….\
…………………………..`:,,………………………`\…………..__
……………………………….`=-,……………….,%`>--==``
…………………………………._\……….._,-%…….`\
……………………………..,<`.._|_,-&``…………….`\

User was warned for this post
((((|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|))))
hijt
Profile Joined August 2010
106 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 09:20:58
September 23 2010 09:20 GMT
#138
oh my god, cant believe that :x

€: ive seen you adding the facepalm!
drooL
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United Kingdom2108 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 09:27:11
September 23 2010 09:25 GMT
#139
this is such a big deal. scrap station mains have been pissing me off forever, never realized how huge the difference actually is though.

€ and huge lols at recreating the destructible debris with pylons... they can't be serious.
@nowSimon
SlyinZ
Profile Joined August 2010
France199 Posts
September 23 2010 09:30 GMT
#140
iccup maps are way better, more in the style of the good ol' bw.
I dont understand why blizzard made stupid maps that are very very small...
Maybe for make the new players feel they are "secure".

sry for my poor english
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