EPTBlizzard needs to get rid of the match history - Page 5
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tetracycloide
295 Posts
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
i think playing the custom maps is a better solution than disabling match history. playing ladder should remain public though, since everyone is competing against each other anyways. | ||
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On September 16 2010 03:46 BOOWOO wrote: It's not a huge deal at all. Like the poster above you said (great point), even if you know Idra's BO 100%, if you are an inferior player you're still going to lose. And its not like this option isn't available to everyone. There's no unfair adavatage to anyone because of this system. It just makes certain aspects worse than they have to be so I don't really see how it's good. Builds evolves quite often in Starcraft, and they are not the same on every map, one day someone is gonna come up with a cool new build, do we as spectators really want to see the build get countered before it even get aired? And if you are the one coming up with a new build on a certain map and practicing it for a tournament, do you really want your opponents to know it before you can perform it? They don't need to get totally rid of them though, just allowing people to toggle it off in options somewhere, the casuals and other people who don't care wouldn't even bother to turn it off or even have any idea that they could. | ||
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comis
United States333 Posts
On September 16 2010 04:10 Ighox wrote: It just makes certain aspects worse than they have to be so I don't really see how it's good. Builds evolves quite often in Starcraft, and they are not the same on every map, one day someone is gonna come up with a cool new build, do we as spectators really want to see the build get countered before it even get aired? And if you are the one coming up with a new build on a certain map and practicing it for a tournament, do you really want your opponents to know it before you can perform it? They don't need to get totally rid of them though, just allowing people to toggle it off in options somewhere, the casuals and other people who don't care wouldn't even bother to turn it off or even have any idea that they could. If it gets countered that fast, it was a bad build to begin with. | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
For me some of the best, most memorable BW games were upsets in which the underdog pulled off a perfectly timed nonstandard build. These kinds of games won't be happening with the build orders in the match history. Two games that came to mind + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDGNBKplVw | ||
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lolbad
Marshall Islands35 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + blizzard needs to get rid of battlenet 0.2 | ||
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SuperGnu
Sweden240 Posts
On September 16 2010 04:22 Piy wrote: People will find a way around it, even if it is using illegal software. And if enough people are using illegal software to get around a horrible feature then Blizzard should and probably would change it. Or just ban the users. | ||
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s4m222
United States272 Posts
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PeRk
United States73 Posts
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whathappened
United States213 Posts
Sure, the argument that 'knowing as much as you can about the other player' is the key role of the meta-game and that should make for a better player is true. But, think about how standard everything is when everyone is doing the same thing each game, which can be caused by the fact that someone has found such a good build/opening. (Sorry for the SC:BW references: Like Flash's 14cc into 2/1 or 2hatch muta). From a fan/viewer point of view, the public Build Order tidbit can decrease the entertainment (read: excitement of something new)-- unless you like to watch the meta-game unfold (SC1 TvT, for instance.) From a 'professional' (read: anyone who tries to play at a competitive level) the Build Order bit can be a saving grace.. or such a disadvantage. I think that the only way to view this data is if you actually played the game. If you have access to the replay, from first hand experience, you should have access to the statistics and whatnot. Otherwise, it should be private. + Show Spoiler [This kind of sounds philosophical..] + My honest opinion on the matter: Replays shouldn't even be available, when everyone is in the dark then those who are the brightness shine the most. Oh wow.. I can't believe I said that, more cheesy than a pizza. Ugh, I need to stop. But that is my two cents. I doubt Blizzard will make these changes since they were boasting on and on about the Observation enhancements and the statistics that were available from prior games to help people learn and get better. | ||
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On September 16 2010 04:20 comis wrote: If it gets countered that fast, it was a bad build to begin with. Pretty much every surprise-build in history of both BW and SC2 so far has been easy to counter, that's not really the issue, point is people should be able to come up with surprise-builds for a specific map or another non-standard build without having it spoiled before they even use it. Do you think it took a long time for people to figure out possible counters to PvZ FE on LT/Steppes/Metal? It was pretty much done in the first game someone fast expanded, yet it's still a great build so your argument doesn't even work. | ||
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samalie
Canada87 Posts
If anything, scouting BO's has just been demonstrated to be not onbly ineffective, but downright dangerous to sit back & rely upon. IdrA, love him or hate him, got fucking worked in Game 2 because he used his BO scouting to make an assumption & didn't even seem to think that his opponent could just...do something else entirely. THis strategy, and its underlying "flaw" that we're all discussing right now...isn't worth shit to use. It promotes lazy behavior, which is obviously not the way to win a tourney. The only reason that this is an issue right now, bottom line, is because a bunch of us westerners are butthurt because our "greatest player" or "biggest villian" (depending on your point of view) is now out of a major tourny. Well seriously, bottom line, in my opinion...tough shit for IdrA. He tried to use a player scouting option available, and got suprise-fucked for it. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
Idra vs lotze is a great example. Idra looked at his opponents match history and saw what he does on Lost temple for instance. He figured he knew so he didn't really scout as good as he could have to see there were like no units coming out and thats why void rays killed him. Lotze tricked Idra pretty good because Idra thought he "knew" what he was doing due to this match history. While I don't like the build order tab either I don't think players should rely on it as I think more players are just going to use that to their advantage with their opponent thinking they know what they are doing. | ||
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DreamOen
Spain1400 Posts
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
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Tanatos
United States381 Posts
BTW I heard idra lost 2nd game of today because his opponent find out idra was practicing against what he was going to do on that game, so that he used VR instead of colossi that he was practicing. Of course both player used this match history, but idra's opponent used it better. I am not critizing anyone nor Blizzard who made this thing. It is really helpful to review your game and analyze your opponent who you are going to face, if you know the value of this system. So, just take advantage! That's all im saying | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
On September 16 2010 04:29 PeRk wrote: Pretty sure the very game that brought this up supports the fact that there is no need to remove it. The Protoss WON because he did something ELSE. I don't see the issue here either. It's still hard to practice for a match because in the back of your head you're thinking "my opponent may be able to see what I'm practicing." I don't get why you guys want to deal with this. Just give the option to hide the match history or at least the build order. tbh players that are relying on match history if your opponent thinks thats what you do for tournaments you can trick your opponent into thinking this is what your going to do but you really do something else. Idra vs lotze is a great example. Idra looked at his opponents match history and saw what he does on Lost temple for instance. He figured he knew so he didn't really scout as good as he could have to see there were like no units coming out and thats why void rays killed him. Lotze tricked Idra pretty good because Idra thought he "knew" what he was doing due to this match history. While I don't like the build order tab either I don't think players should rely on it as I think more players are just going to use that to their advantage with their opponent thinking they know what they are doing. wouldn't it be better to not just have to deal with someone being able to look at your match history? You people are trying to figure out ways to "counter" people looking at your match history. Why not just remove the entire thing? It'd make it much easier. | ||
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thundertoss
United States1166 Posts
2. if you have the same opening build order so frequently that your opponent will have a sizable advantage from knowing this than you probably need to be able to vary your play. They would know your opening just from scouting and if you know they aren't scouting because they are assuming your are going a certain build than you should easily be able to respond and punish this. Even if you opened up 14 hatch 80% of the time but went like 7 pool 5% of the time your opponent would not be able to counter you with confidence. 3. match history is available for both parties and if you are getting good enough to enter high level tournaments where this minor 'advantage' is what is going to decide the match then their will probably be enough people talking about you to give your opponent a sense of what you favor anyhow. 4. The build order only shows the first few minutes of what your BO is. The only reason this should make difference is if you have a very specific, nonstandard opening you are planning to do vs a specific MU or opponent. If this is the case you should just practice in something like YABOT, use a friends account, or buy another copy. If you need this element of surprise to give you the advantage you are essentially cheesing and he same argument you opened with can be used because you are relying on something other than your own skill and decision making to win the game. | ||
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ArbAttack
Canada198 Posts
But they certainly don't want to and won't. Why would they get rid of a feature that generates more $$$? | ||
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