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On September 18 2010 03:16 Ballistixz wrote:
if people are really that worried about someone seeing there build orders then why not get a extra account or play on a friends account? i mean if its THAT much of a bother then the extra account is worth it. so really shouldn't be that big a deal.
That's the point. It's another Battle.net 2.0 inconvenience where the only answer is "pool your resources". This game is seemingly designed around the incorrect belief the Teamliquid audience is such fanboys that they'll spend the extra sixty-plus dollars to get their functionality back.
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United States7166 Posts
no, because of the ladder
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On September 18 2010 03:26 MichaelJLowell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 03:16 Ballistixz wrote:
if people are really that worried about someone seeing there build orders then why not get a extra account or play on a friends account? i mean if its THAT much of a bother then the extra account is worth it. so really shouldn't be that big a deal. That's the point. It's another Battle.net 2.0 inconvenience where the only answer is "pool your resources". This game is seemingly designed around the incorrect belief the Teamliquid audience is such fanboys that they'll spend the extra sixty-plus dollars to get their functionality back.
most of the players already have multiple EU/NA/asian server accounts so they can play on those servers tho... so if they can do that i dont see why they cant also practice privately and secretly with a different account as well.
i know this game is trying to milk you for all the money you got, that was evident when they decided on the package for HoS and LoV, but what else is there to do. we all know that if blizz do decide to remove the match history thing its not gonna happen any time in soon...
or should i remind u of chat channels and all the other features players want in but have to wait possibly months to years for it to be implemented in? so just go with what you got.
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Make it hideable IMO
Not that I would use the feature, but I can understand why others might.
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A lot of people aren't discussing another huge problem:
You can't avoid spoiler for games that will be cast after they've been played. A lot of tournaments cast replays to make sure that no player is listening to the stream. This can't be done without people being able to find out the results before the games are played.
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I wish I didn't have my league and rank blurted into my face in big letters whenever I want to play ladder games. Doesn't help the RTS anxiety one bit feeling as though you've a rank to live up to.
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I haven't read the whole thread, but to summarize my thoughts on the subject:
The build order feature is symmetric so it doesn't favor anyone except that person has a separate training account in which case you still get to see his playstyle from other tournaments he played on his "public account".
Doing research on opponents and being able to use those informations is a relevant skill in a lot of sports/games. The match history therefore actually adds another layer of depht to the game and gives good player another way to capitalize on their skill. Which is good imho.
Analyzing the playstyle of opponents isn't something new for SC. The pros in the korean leagues and also the known names sure do their resarch and prepare for specific opponents. This kind of preparation wasn't as widely available on the lower levels since you wouldn't always find vods/reps of a lesser known opponent. Now we lower level players can also so have that kind of preparation. The fact that lazy players that don't prepare get punished is again good for competitive play.
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I want replays. All the replays should be available through the profiles of the players.
I think Blizzard had something planned like that. Hopefully they will introduce it sooner or later.
I cant understand how metagame could ever be bad for the game or progaming.
Its beyond me how many ppl think matchhistory should be removed...
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Maybe I'm just dense but I'm still not getting your point at all, what in these games am I supposed to be noticing that having build orders revealed on custom games would change? The second especially looks like the build order reveals nothing at all, that all the game winning decisions took place during the game.
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I really don't think it's a problem... If you assume someone is doing X without scouting then you will lose because of this thing called mixing up BOs. If you scout effectively then it doesn't matter if know some BO or not.
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On a related note, and please excuse me for being a b.net2.0 neophyte, but how do you check a player's history anyway if he's not in your division/ladder?
The Match History available on b.net's site doesn't show game details, so I'm presuming are talking about the in-game feature. But the only profiles I have access to is people from my ladders and on my friends list.
Am I missing something?
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On September 18 2010 03:43 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 03:26 MichaelJLowell wrote:On September 18 2010 03:16 Ballistixz wrote:
if people are really that worried about someone seeing there build orders then why not get a extra account or play on a friends account? i mean if its THAT much of a bother then the extra account is worth it. so really shouldn't be that big a deal. That's the point. It's another Battle.net 2.0 inconvenience where the only answer is "pool your resources". This game is seemingly designed around the incorrect belief the Teamliquid audience is such fanboys that they'll spend the extra sixty-plus dollars to get their functionality back. most of the players already have multiple EU/NA/asian server accounts so they can play on those servers tho... so if they can do that i dont see why they cant also practice privately and secretly with a different account as well. i know this game is trying to milk you for all the money you got, that was evident when they decided on the package for HoS and LoV, but what else is there to do. we all know that if blizz do decide to remove the match history thing its not gonna happen any time in soon... or should i remind u of chat channels and all the other features players want in but have to wait possibly months to years for it to be implemented in? so just go with what you got.
Hey, Blizzard pined this game as their attempt to give competitive gaming mainstream appeal in the West. And they can't do that without appealing to the competitive gamers.
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On September 18 2010 04:19 tetracycloide wrote:Maybe I'm just dense but I'm still not getting your point at all, what in these games am I supposed to be noticing that having build orders revealed on custom games would change? The second especially looks like the build order reveals nothing at all, that all the game winning decisions took place during the game.
If you look at your opponent's match history and you see his recent practice games on the map you're about to play have him going barracks barracks supply depot you really aren't going to adapt in any way?
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maybe they should just get rid of the build order slot (or make it unavailable after a day or 2)
I personally don't think it's a big deal, but OP brings up a great point why it shouldn't be there. I love it b/c I can just see how my friends are playing and how they are winning (aka if he's only cheesing/using 1 build to win, and not skill)
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Sweden33719 Posts
On September 18 2010 04:03 japro wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread, but to summarize my thoughts on the subject:
The build order feature is symmetric so it doesn't favor anyone except that person has a separate training account in which case you still get to see his playstyle from other tournaments he played on his "public account".
Doing research on opponents and being able to use those informations is a relevant skill in a lot of sports/games. The match history therefore actually adds another layer of depht to the game and gives good player another way to capitalize on their skill. Which is good imho.
Analyzing the playstyle of opponents isn't something new for SC. The pros in the korean leagues and also the known names sure do their resarch and prepare for specific opponents. This kind of preparation wasn't as widely available on the lower levels since you wouldn't always find vods/reps of a lesser known opponent. Now we lower level players can also so have that kind of preparation. The fact that lazy players that don't prepare get punished is again good for competitive play.
You do research on PUBLIC games (ie official matches) you dont do research on PRIVATE games.
An example: I had to play a TvT final (Viking Cup vs Failo). The Viking Cup finals happen 2 days after the tournament that leads up to them, so during friday/saturday I looked at his practice games match history.
I saw that he was going 7 rax (or 8 rax I forget) on one map a lot, so I went 10 rax blindly on that map - something I never do - and crushed it. Totally unfair - if I had played normally, I would most likely have lost (almost definitely).
On September 18 2010 03:16 Ballistixz wrote:
if people are really that worried about someone seeing there build orders then why not get a extra account or play on a friends account? i mean if its THAT much of a bother then the extra account is worth it. so really shouldn't be that big a deal.
So lets see, an extra account for each server, then an extra account to smurf each server, then as soon as you need to practice in secret with someone you later on need to play against in a tournament, you need ANOTHER extra account....
Yeah how about no?
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Hey there, I know the post is a bit old but I just wanted to know if Blizzard people are actually aware of this issue. I mean, match history should definitely be hideable, at the very least. We've been through the high level sport metaphor a lot, and clearly it isnt working out : as many people stated, you can check football team's matches but you can't get to see their practice sessions. Simple as that.
So I actually made a post on the official Blizzard forums :
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/679188272?page=1#7http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/679188272?page=1#7
Feel free to come and post there, I don't really know if it will raise Blizzard's attention, but I think the issue is just huge.
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Okay, sorry to be silly but can someone please teach me how to actually view build orders etc.? I mean literally, how would you go about doing this?
If I check www.battle.net I can find my match history but not info on each game (such as BO and so on). Can someone who feels like being friendly PM me or write it here :p.
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I don't think it gives anyone an unfair advantage, because your opponent should be looking at your BO's and tendencies just as you are doing to them. It just adds another layer to the gameplay of tournaments.
One could also argue that newer players would have the advantage if a system as transparent as this one wasn't in place because everyone knows what a veterans playstyle and timings are like, however the same cannot be said about a player new to the scene. This puts everyone at an equal footing, but this arguement is pretty mute because most if not all pro's have smurf accounts that they practice on if they want some privacy.
Honestly I think its fine as it stands, just play to win and use everything you can to your advantage.
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EPT
