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Thought I would bring this up for re-discussion, as it has not been up for discussion for a while since beta...but this was a highly talked about thing beta and it's more important now.
The match history shows basically all of your games played, and worse yet - the build orders you have been doing, not only in ladder, but in your custom practice games as well.
What this means is b4 any tournament, you can look up your opponent, and study their build order, and know how they are most likely going to play, as well as know the possible counter deviation they may do.
It's pretty sickening. You could argue it's "great for casual players" that want to learn the game, but that logic is always faulty with RTS communities, as casual players don't have the understanding nor care enough to look at that type of thing in the first place.
So basically...match history makes it so that in every big tournament, once you know who you are about to play, you're going to search through their match history, look at their builds, and have a very good idea of the range of builds they're going to do.
If you want to smurf, you have to pay another 60 dollars to get a practice account, and since their are no chat channels, your practice partners would also have to pay the 60 bucks, add you, and do the same for custom games. You'd have to appear non-existent in the void that is bnet 2, and buying new accounts is the only way to do that.
Once one person knows your account, everyone else will. I personally think Blizzard should get rid of the match-history+build orders in the scorecard at the end of the games.
It's going to start ruining tournaments pretty soon, as it already is the GSL in some games. But it's a pretty big deal. That's just my personal opinion though.
What do other people think about this?
edit: just saw this minutes ago, but everyone/anyone that wants their privacy check this thread that teddyman made with maps he made that hide your builds:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=153120
edit: added poll:
Poll: Should blizzard get rid of match history/build order viewing?Make match history hideable (1185) 70% No (314) 18% Yes (199) 12% 1698 total votes Your vote: Should blizzard get rid of match history/build order viewing? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Make match history hideable
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:O i did not know this...
time to look up huk's profile XD
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I think it's part of the strategy. In sports you study your opponent aswell, you watch some of his matches and prepare yourself for his style of play.
I dont get why it's a bad thing.
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We'll from a non-terran standpoint be glad that you have more than two viable builds.
I'd suggest expanding your play rather than exploiting racial matchups with units.
edit:
rofl wow, I didn't look at OP's race beforehand. s^ damn I'm gooodddd. ba da dum disssshhh
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They can keep the match history, but just get rid of the build order tab.
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On September 16 2010 03:06 Deadlyfish wrote:
I think it's part of the strategy. In sports you study your opponent aswell, you watch some of his matches and prepare yourself for his style of play.
I dont get why it's a bad thing.
I tend to agree, it's here to stay for sure. And a transparent system like this might alleviate some weirder stalkier attempts to gain information.
Also, as seen today against IdrA, it can even be used as a strategy itself to know that your enemy has been studying your BO. Another dimension of mind games going on.
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The ideal solution would be to have an option to turn match history on or off so the tournament players can turn it off. Personally I like looking at my opponents BO after a loss so I can see exactly what he did and learn from it.
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On September 16 2010 03:06 Deadlyfish wrote:
I think it's part of the strategy. In sports you study your opponent aswell, you watch some of his matches and prepare yourself for his style of play.
I dont get why it's a bad thing.
Horrible analogy. In sports you can study replays, just like you can in Starcraft.
You can study your opponent, what you're not allowed to do is go stalk your opponent in RL and show up at every one of their practice sessions.
You can study Federer and Nadal's play style and tendencies, and collect information, but you cannot go watch them personally practice with their coach 24/7.
In football, you get fined/penalized if you go and try and spy on other teams practices with a camera (that happened in recent years b4 superbowl or something)?
You can study that way, but if you want to make an analogy here, it's going to be closest that SC2 match history is like stalking/invading privacy and trying to go spy on someone's personal practice session with their coach.
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This thread is (mostly)irrelevant someone has made maps that hide your build orders. The really good players aren't laddering to prepare for a tournament.
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just don't show the private games imho
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match history/build orders arent the issue imo.
Its the fact that you cant have more than one I.D.
People in the gsl know eachother's build's because of pro players sharing information with eachother. And when your among the top 50 on the entire realm, you see the same players (the other 49 of the top 50) in ladder matches a lot. These players see eachother in ladder all the time, and when they dont, they know someone who did play them a lot. It is a lot more of sharing information among players than going to their profile and studying their build.
To let them practise would only require a second bnet Tag, and them just keeping their mouth shut and ducking their head down when they get noticed by other top players.
But even then, its going to happen anyways. In broodwar everyone studied their opponents replays/vods that were everywhere and that was before match history n such.
Scouting happens in EVERY sport. Wont be any different for e-sports.
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On September 16 2010 03:06 Deadlyfish wrote:
I think it's part of the strategy. In sports you study your opponent aswell, you watch some of his matches and prepare yourself for his style of play.
I dont get why it's a bad thing.
Using tennis as an example to this, scouting someone in tennis you might see something like, he has a strong forehand and likes to hit downtheline shots every few points. The differerence bewteen this and scouting someone in sc2 via match history is that you get the EXACT timings of everything he is going to do, going back to tennis here, if you knew what your opponent was going to do every point it would be a struggle to lose if you were around the same skill level.
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On September 16 2010 03:06 Deadlyfish wrote:
I think it's part of the strategy. In sports you study your opponent aswell, you watch some of his matches and prepare yourself for his style of play.
I dont get why it's a bad thing.
There was a big NFL scandal a few years ago about the patriots allegedly taping other teams' practice sessions before they played them.
Article 9 of the NFL Constitution & Bylaws states "any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."
It's a very bad thing.
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On September 16 2010 03:06 Deadlyfish wrote:
In football, you get fined/penalized if you go and try and spy on other teams practices with a camera (that happened in recent years b4 superbowl or something)?
It was the Pats that got caught doing it. They lost a draft pick IIRC.
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Nothing is stopping you from buying another account to practice on. If you think saving $60 is worth the risk of losing $85,000, something's wrong with you.
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On September 16 2010 03:11 Rumiah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 03:06 Deadlyfish wrote:
I think it's part of the strategy. In sports you study your opponent aswell, you watch some of his matches and prepare yourself for his style of play.
I dont get why it's a bad thing. Using tennis as an example to this, scouting someone in tennis you might see something like, he has a strong forehand and likes to hit downtheline shots every few points. The differerence bewteen this and scouting someone in sc2 via match history is that you get the EXACT timings of everything he is going to do, going back to tennis here, if you knew what your opponent was going to do every point it would be a struggle to lose if you were around the same skill level.
Well i thought the pro players could vary their build orders? I rarely see a game where they go for the exact same build as the first game.
I'm also pretty sure that the pro players adapt their build to whatever their opponent is doing, and not just blindly go for the same build again and again. Everyone knows that IdrA is a macro player and likes to macro alot before he attacks. I dont see what's wrong with that. Trying to hide your build orders would also be very tricky, and kinda strange.
Also, i'd never go look up some build order that my opponent did, and just assume that they're going to use that against me, i'd be taking a huge chance.
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A public match history will result in shittier games.
Instead of focusing on the builds on certain maps consistently, perfecting their timings, learning the opponents timings into the relation of their build, we will see
1)Pros getting supply blocked more often
2)Worse macro and attack timings
3)Worse game sense that increases the strength of cheese
We had the technology 10 years ago, we just aren't there yet.
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On September 16 2010 03:14 Dionyseus wrote:
Nothing is stopping you from buying another account to practice on. If you think saving $60 is worth the risk of losing $85,000, something's wrong with you.
Except the fact that not all tournaments are going to get you a nice $85,000 for winning them. It'd just be easier to take the build order tab out like someone suggested or just get rid of match history all together.
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EPT
