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On June 29 2012 12:39 Silencioseu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:01 Dodgin wrote:
I don't know about you guys but I'm much more disappointed at incontrol basically teaming up with idra and acting as his enabler, It's obvious Idra never wanted to talk to Avilo in the first place and he should not have been forced into the situation. JP should not have brought on Avilo.
But Incontrol your behavior is actually just fucking disgusting, I thought you were better than that.
This show proved a few things to me:
QXC is a smart guy and can debate well, Idra can debate well if he's not angry.
JP listens to the stream chat when he shouldn't
QXC and Nony are extremely respectful guys.
Incontrol, despite how he acts like a nice guy at events he casts and hosts, can be a pretty big bully. I agree with most of your points except maybe 2 points: -Idra can't argue at all. When idra was debating over tvz with qxc, qxc said that terrans had to get "greedy" to be on par with zerg late-game, but then zergs can all in them, and Idra said that you cannot all in with 6 queens on the field without giving out any fact or prove to his point, which is untrue anyways since with 6 queens you can drone freely to reach an economy to "all in" but still be able to recover.- JP really shown himself there, he just got avilo on after incontrol told him so they could get all the "drama" up and running, while laughing at the background, completely unprofessional. Esports would've been better without fluff like SOTG and JP.
Dude wait what? You understand Zerg better than Idra?
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JP should have hung up on Idra and let Avilo finish his points. Maybe let Idra back on when he's cooled down.
But that would never happen, because the "pillars" of SC2 are just a bunch of bullies.
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On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:21 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:20 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Tough shit. He acted like a 9 year old who doesn't want to wake up for school. And? Idra now has to apologize to you and everyone for it? What a joke. Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself.
There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable.
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On June 29 2012 12:39 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:38 iky43210 wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 JoeSchmoe wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 codonbyte wrote:On June 29 2012 12:28 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 avilo wrote:
Pretty obvious they brought me on to cut me down, have a laugh/whatever with geoff's incessant giggling or w/e he was doing in the background along with the others. Oh well, I didn't expect to be treated with respect, I at the very least expected some class.
And if somethings I said seemed "not well spoken..." It's a bit tough to bring new points into the discussion as i'm sure QXC probably already brought up most things earlier on in the show, it's also tough when I can hear their condescending laughing in the background as I try to speak, along with putting up a random picture of me like they did to try to get "more laughs." oh wells.
I appreciate being brought on regardless, it would have been nice to have some input during the first TvZ discussion they had earlier on, where the points would have been fresh and I could have added more.
I appreciate that QXC is a baller with class and didn't treat me like dirt beneath his feet, and that nony was at least neutral. If SotG played by the TL forum rules you'd be banned for martyring. I'm sorry people giving you a chance to express yourself despite your own best efforts to antagonize them in the past didn't go quite as smoothly as you hoped, and I'm further sorry that no one else seems to recognize your own brilliance. I'm further sorry that there seems to be some confusion of reality going on between your account and JP's account. But that's ok. You keep on keepin' on, you brave little soldier. Ummm... How's he martyring? Martyring is saying "OMG ima be banned for this but ima do it anyway, herp derp". Where did Avilo do that? That entire first paragraph and half of the second. 'They brought me on to make me look bad, to have a laugh at my expense in the background and disrespect me to my face, but I came on the show anyway!' That's, like, practically the textbook definition of martyring. perhaps you should go back and work on your reading comprehension? I see nothing wrong with his post. He knowingly endured ridicule to get a chance at voicing his beliefs (whether right or wrong is not important) Well it kind of is because him being wrong in the first place is the reason he is ridiculed. He whines about balance constantly while being incorrect because Korean Terrans don't face the same problems he does on NA ladder and then expects to be taken seriously compared to someone like QXC
again being wrong or right is irrelevant. Obviously matyr is much more severe than being ridiculed.
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On June 29 2012 12:38 deathr0w wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:21 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:20 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Tough shit. He acted like a 9 year old who doesn't want to wake up for school. And? Idra now has to apologize to you and everyone for it? What a joke. Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Just leave. 1) You are bias on hating IdrA from the start 2) You email sponsors which makes anything you say invalid Fly away little birdy
I think people are missing the real enemy in this thread. It isn't Avilo or Sotg cast. Shiori is actually trying to hurt Esports by emailing teams. Attack nerds!
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On June 29 2012 12:42 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:38 deathr0w wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:21 PanN wrote:
[quote]
And? Idra now has to apologize to you and everyone for it? What a joke. Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Just leave. 1) You are bias on hating IdrA from the start 2) You email sponsors which makes anything you say invalid Fly away little birdy I think people are missing the real enemy in this thread. It isn't Avilo or Sotg cast. Shiori is actually trying to hurt Esports by emailing teams. Attack nerds!
Incontrol himself recommended we email teams rather than sponsors if we have a problem with their behaviour. I'm doing just that.
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On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:21 PanN wrote:
[quote]
And? Idra now has to apologize to you and everyone for it? What a joke. Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise.
He did act civil up until the point when Avilo pretty much destroyed his credibility by arguing really stupidly. tbh I am kind of glad he shut everything down, it was stupid and ridicolous and shouldn't have happened
EDIT: I am not saying what Idra did was the right thing to do, but to say that Idra is incapable of acting civilized is stupid. Equally, I think it would be stupid to hang up when Avilo came in
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On June 29 2012 12:36 xOny wrote:
Why on earth would you bring Avilo on anyway?
He's always just been a balance whiner, last month he made a blog dedicated to complaining about TvP, and apparently since TvZ is the new flavor of the month for terran balance whiners, he has taken that up too.
I don't think anyone would want to hear a conversation about balance w/ someone of such an idiotic/annoying mentality.
To be fair though, IdrA has also always been a balance whiner, so with that logic he shouldn't have been brought on either.
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On June 29 2012 12:41 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:21 PanN wrote:
[quote]
And? Idra now has to apologize to you and everyone for it? What a joke. Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself. There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable.
Are we seriously going to lobby for more artificiality here? I'm all for civility, but I'd rather have Idra speak his mind rather than feed us bullshit.
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On June 29 2012 12:42 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. He did act civil up until the point when Avilo pretty much destroyed his credibility by arguing really stupidly. tbh I am kind of glad he shut everything down, it was stupid and ridicolous and shouldn't have happened
I'm not going to get into this balance discussion because it's irrelevant to the behaviour of its participants, but Idra's points weren't exactly breaking new ground. He downplayed MKP ffs.
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On June 29 2012 12:40 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:39 Shaddar wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:
[quote]
I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself.
He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought.
If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. Oh come on you would not be able to act civilly when talking to someone you really don't like and respect, I know I wouldn't. When I don't act civilly in a public forum just because I don't like someone, I get in trouble. Look at professional sports. What happens when two players who don't like each other let personal issues into the game or press conference or whatever? They get reprimanded. It's simple.
Most people here would agree that IdrA did not act as well as he could have in that situation. Why can't you just say "I think IdrA shouldn't have been so rude to Avilo" or something along those lines. Instead you are constantly trying to make this seem like it is the biggest fucking deal... talking about how players get punished, and implying that IdrA should face some consequences for telling someone to STFU.
My god... just let it go man. We understand... IdrA could have acted better in that situation. So could Avilo. It honestly isn't a big deal. Please stop trying to make it seem like one.
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On June 29 2012 12:42 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:38 deathr0w wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:21 PanN wrote:
[quote]
And? Idra now has to apologize to you and everyone for it? What a joke. Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Just leave. 1) You are bias on hating IdrA from the start 2) You email sponsors which makes anything you say invalid Fly away little birdy I think people are missing the real enemy in this thread. It isn't Avilo or Sotg cast. Shiori is actually trying to hurt Esports by emailing teams. Attack nerds!
Acutally, emailing teams=fine, emailing sponsors=bad.
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On June 29 2012 12:41 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:21 PanN wrote:
[quote]
And? Idra now has to apologize to you and everyone for it? What a joke. Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself. There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable.
No its actually completely excusable. He was put into a situation which he didn't want to be in, and if he had prior knowledge about it he most likely wouldn't have agreed to do the show seeing as he was upset about it right as they were calling him.
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On June 29 2012 12:17 itmeJP wrote:Unfortunately, that happened. Sorry to IdrA and Avilo for creating that situation. I had no idea that was going to happen and I wished it didn't looking back. I was unaware of their past. In regards to the 'bullying' I don't know really anything about Avilo so when I asked him if that was him, it was a sincere question, not a joke. The reason I cut him off abruptly is because it was going downhill very quickly. It was a brash decision but one I stand by. I instantly messaged him afterwards to apologize for having to do that. VOD processing, MP3 up -- http://sotg-sc2.blogspot.com/2012/06/sotg-ep72.html
Come on JP, you're lying here. Clearly, you did a bad job of running the show. I won't question that. But you were also malicious.
Also, don't mistake the immediate outpouring of support following the post I'm quoting as evidence your post was compelling. It wasn't. Community members predictably respond positively to popular figures taking the time to talk to them. It had nothing with what you said.
Sure, there was some incompetence in you choosing the picture. Lots of hosts like choosing funny pictures to rag on their friends. But Avilo isn't your friend. I can buy that your attempt at insult comedy fell spectacularly flat.
Still, you snickering in the background was malicious... and a little pitiful. A group of your friends were mocking someone who in now way deserved it and you didn't have the guts to take control of the discussion. You shouldn't have let Incontrol talk down to Avilo -- You shouldn't have let Idra insult Avilo -- and you should have earnestly apologized afterward. Get some guts.
You acted like a nasty little sidekick. Right now, you're Starcraft 2's Grover Dill.
Finally, you're decision to cut Avilo off was incorrect. Your hosting created a situation where you allowed two immature men to mock someone. The least you could do would be to let him defend himself.
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On June 29 2012 12:43 thumppin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:41 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself. There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable. Are we seriously going to lobby for more artificiality here? I'm all for civility, but I'd rather have Idra speak his mind rather than feed us bullshit.
I'd rather him say nothing that unleash a tirade of vitriolic stupidity. What's that saying about having nothing nice to say?
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On June 29 2012 12:41 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:39 Silencioseu wrote:On June 29 2012 12:01 Dodgin wrote:
I don't know about you guys but I'm much more disappointed at incontrol basically teaming up with idra and acting as his enabler, It's obvious Idra never wanted to talk to Avilo in the first place and he should not have been forced into the situation. JP should not have brought on Avilo.
But Incontrol your behavior is actually just fucking disgusting, I thought you were better than that.
This show proved a few things to me:
QXC is a smart guy and can debate well, Idra can debate well if he's not angry.
JP listens to the stream chat when he shouldn't
QXC and Nony are extremely respectful guys.
Incontrol, despite how he acts like a nice guy at events he casts and hosts, can be a pretty big bully. I agree with most of your points except maybe 2 points: -Idra can't argue at all. When idra was debating over tvz with qxc, qxc said that terrans had to get "greedy" to be on par with zerg late-game, but then zergs can all in them, and Idra said that you cannot all in with 6 queens on the field without giving out any fact or prove to his point, which is untrue anyways since with 6 queens you can drone freely to reach an economy to "all in" but still be able to recover.- JP really shown himself there, he just got avilo on after incontrol told him so they could get all the "drama" up and running, while laughing at the background, completely unprofessional. Esports would've been better without fluff like SOTG and JP. Dude wait what? You understand Zerg better than Idra?
idra understands the game the best. "MKP doesn't know how to play the game. Does random shit." classic.
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On June 29 2012 12:41 Starshaped wrote:
JP should have hung up on Idra and let Avilo finish his points. Maybe let Idra back on when he's cooled down.
But that would never happen, because the "pillars" of SC2 are just a bunch of bullies.
What point? Avilo was just (probably unintentionally) making Idra even more angry by repeating his "I agree with you Idra, [insert random irrevelant point that was hardly what Idra was actually saying]" when it was clearing obvious that he wasn't listening to what Idra was saying and they were clearly not in agreement.
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On June 29 2012 12:09 Vekalisk wrote:
Community wants him on knowing full well what will happen and gets angry when he gets exactly what everyone knew would happen. Pretty fucking typical.
What's with this terrible argument or statement I keep seeing? First of all, many TLers claim things like "turning on stream chat was your first mistake," speaking generally about stream-watching. It's possible that many people decrying JP's inability to handle the situation he initiated weren't in stream chat or at least weren't the ones calling for avilo.
Second, almost everyone, including avilo, probably knew he was being invited as a joke. With avilo in the know, I think we expected some relatively harmless if abrasive behavior, but with a measure of moderation. Instead, the host and moderator, JP, failed quite miserably. I wasn't paying as much attention to iNcontroL, but he wasn't helping either, from what I recall.
As far as IdrA, I think his rudeness came as a bit of a surprise after having such a good debate with qxc, in which I'd actually agree that many watchers benefited from their knowledge, regardless of how biased one thinks IdrA is. I do have some sympathy as he was forced into the situation by JP/etc.
Is there a shade of hypocrisy? Sure. I was expecting to enjoy them poking fun at avilo, which I did at first, but what happened after was a disgrace. He at least tried to debate maturely, even if he was getting his points across rather poorly. Then he began trying to use IdrA's own statements against him, without actually using IdrA's own statements, which was embarrassing, but in spite of that, consider he was in this embarrassing position, being put on the spot. It's not so easy to talk sensibly when you're surrounded by enemies.
This was my first SotG in a while, and I feel like I got some useful direction for TvZ out of the IdrA/qxc debate, even though I think it's a bit biased. In fact, my one question would be about how IdrA actually expects a Terran to mass expand if a Zerg so much as burrows zerglings at the nearest expansions. That is a huge pain to remove, and it's also an obvious tell.
If not for that segment, my interest to watch further SotGs dwindled.
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On June 29 2012 12:42 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:42 hitpoint wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 deathr0w wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Just leave. 1) You are bias on hating IdrA from the start 2) You email sponsors which makes anything you say invalid Fly away little birdy I think people are missing the real enemy in this thread. It isn't Avilo or Sotg cast. Shiori is actually trying to hurt Esports by emailing teams. Attack nerds! Incontrol himself recommended we email teams rather than sponsors if we have a problem with their behaviour. I'm doing just that.
Fair enough. I'm sympathetic to Avilo and all, but it still feels like an overreaction imo. Inc apologized at the end of the show and said some nice things about Avilo, and Idra was against it from the very begining, asking JP not to bring him on. I don't think Idra has to apologize for anything.
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On June 29 2012 12:44 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:41 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself. There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable. No its actually completely excusable. He was put into a situation which he didn't want to be in, and if he had prior knowledge about it he most likely wouldn't have agreed to do the show seeing as he was upset about it right as they were calling him.
That...doesn't make it excusable at all. Lol. It's never excusable to act like a complete dick in a (somewhat) professional capacity.
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EPT
