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On June 29 2012 12:45 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:44 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:41 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:
[quote]
I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself.
He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought.
If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself. There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable. No its actually completely excusable. He was put into a situation which he didn't want to be in, and if he had prior knowledge about it he most likely wouldn't have agreed to do the show seeing as he was upset about it right as they were calling him. That...doesn't make it excusable at all. Lol. It's never excusable to act like a complete dick in a (somewhat) professional capacity.
And thats where you and I differ. We've solved nothing.
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On June 29 2012 12:45 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:42 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:42 hitpoint wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 deathr0w wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:
[quote]
I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself.
He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought.
If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Just leave. 1) You are bias on hating IdrA from the start 2) You email sponsors which makes anything you say invalid Fly away little birdy I think people are missing the real enemy in this thread. It isn't Avilo or Sotg cast. Shiori is actually trying to hurt Esports by emailing teams. Attack nerds! Incontrol himself recommended we email teams rather than sponsors if we have a problem with their behaviour. I'm doing just that. Fair enough. I'm sympathetic to Avilo and all, bit it still feels like an overreaction imo. Inc apologized at the end of the show and said some nice things about Avilo, and Idra was against it from the very begining, asking JP not to bring him on. I don't think Idra has to apologize for anything.
So if you say you don't like someone from the get go you can talk as much trash as you want? What kind of logic is that?
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I wish STOG have a "guide list" at the youtube comments to tell us what they are going to talk about and what time it is at on the video, like:
11:30 - TvZ state
16:00 - RO 16 GSL
21:00 - Nada retirement
........etc etc.
I don't really have time to skip everything and listen to the 2 hrs talk, it would be nice for the audience to pick the topic and listen to it. Also, the show should be more control in terms of organization and timing. (Like an actualy radio/TV talk show would be great!)
---Don't know if this is the place for feedback...
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On June 29 2012 12:46 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:45 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:44 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:41 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did.
Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself. There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable. No its actually completely excusable. He was put into a situation which he didn't want to be in, and if he had prior knowledge about it he most likely wouldn't have agreed to do the show seeing as he was upset about it right as they were calling him. That...doesn't make it excusable at all. Lol. It's never excusable to act like a complete dick in a (somewhat) professional capacity. And thats where you and I differ. We've solved nothing.
I don't have a problem if you differ. I'm saying I don't support this behaviour because it disgusts me, and evidently it disgusts others too or we wouldn't have this controversy.
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On June 29 2012 12:44 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:43 thumppin wrote:On June 29 2012 12:41 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:
[quote]
I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself.
He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought.
If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself. There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable. Are we seriously going to lobby for more artificiality here? I'm all for civility, but I'd rather have Idra speak his mind rather than feed us bullshit. I'd rather him say nothing that unleash a tirade of vitriolic stupidity. What's that saying about having nothing nice to say?
Except he didn't release of "vitriolic stupidity". He told the guy to shut the fuck up and was condescending. That's it. Anyway, I'm not sure if you know this but the point of Avilo being on was so him and Idra would converse. It's not really a debate if he's just quiet, is it? In the end, he had enough, was moderately insulting, and the plug was pulled. You are blowing this way out of proportion.
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On June 29 2012 12:43 Theovide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:36 xOny wrote:
Why on earth would you bring Avilo on anyway?
He's always just been a balance whiner, last month he made a blog dedicated to complaining about TvP, and apparently since TvZ is the new flavor of the month for terran balance whiners, he has taken that up too.
I don't think anyone would want to hear a conversation about balance w/ someone of such an idiotic/annoying mentality. To be fair though, IdrA has also always been a balance whiner, so with that logic he shouldn't have been brought on either.
Well to be fair almost everything Idra whined about got touched on by patches in some way. If you listen to what he says instead of that he is simply saying something lol he is usually not completely wrong or *completely* wrong. Besides, Avilo is on an entirely new level of whine imo( Prolly slightly biased, but it's an opinion shared by pretty much everyone so there you go  )
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On June 29 2012 12:39 Shaddar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. Oh come on you would not be able to act civilly when talking to someone you really don't like and respect, I know I wouldn't. Edit: Not to mention he tried to act civilly at first then got fed up
Actually, most of us non-famous people actually DO have to deal with people we don't like, and actually DO manage to pull it off, because unlike Idra, we little people can't get away with being a douche-bag to those that we don't like, because if we do, we get called out on it. But Idra can do whatever he damn well pleases because hey, he's Idra.
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On June 29 2012 12:28 SnipedSoul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:27 forsooth wrote:On June 29 2012 12:20 SMD wrote:
Im confused. People keep saying this season of gsl tvz is like 30%. just looking thru code a and code s, I don't see where this number is comming from?
Code A 2 TvZ's, both terrans won....
Code S i see 14-12 TvZ(if i added correctly)... with 7 terrans in ro16.
I understand theres more to determining balance but.... GSTL is 4-13 TvZ and then there's this: + Show Spoiler + Blue is Terran on there? God damn.
Sort of heavily cherry picking data in there. Also all this happened very quickly after a patch which requires terran to change their openers. Can heavily cherry pick data from 2011 to show that TvZ looks broken because Terran won everything =S
As originally said: GSL TvZ is still doing well and the further beyond the patch we're getting, the more stable the matchup is once again becoming. TSL qualifiers still getting terran finalists and ESV Weekly still being largely won by terrans.
Zerg look a lot better in teamleagues and longer tournaments because it's less likely they'll get cheesed out nowdays. That's all I see it as. If people have an issue with zerg, the queen range actually is not the issue but perhaps the lategame zerg problem that's potentially existed for a while but was just avoided by all-ins and tens of drone kills. Protoss and Terran's main zerg issue imo is actually the BL infestor composition, a safer zerg early game just means this potential issue has become clearer to the audience.
I also say "potential issue" because it could just need players to discover solutions. It's arguable either way.
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On June 29 2012 12:42 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:22 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Oh no, he doesn't have to. Perhaps it wasn't obvious that what I meant was that if Idra wants to be respected by decent, upstanding people, he should apologize. Of course, he can always do what he usually does and just say "fuck everyone I'm Idra." I'm sure he'll keep his regular demographic of people who idolize this so-called badassery. I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself. He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought. If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. He did act civil up until the point when Avilo pretty much destroyed his credibility by arguing really stupidly. tbh I am kind of glad he shut everything down, it was stupid and ridicolous and shouldn't have happened
To continue having this conversation with Shiori is equivalent of Greg continuing the conversation with Avilo. One obviously has his own agenda and will listen to nothing that the other says. It's time to just hang up and stop feeding the indignant troll.
By the way Shi, Greg hanging up mid call would not only paint him in an even worse light (and people would crucify him as a coward), but it would probably piss off the team/sponsors even more than his "reprehensible actions" by not doing shout outs at the end of the show.
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On June 29 2012 12:47 bhfberserk wrote:
I wish STOG have a "guide list" at the youtube comments to tell us what they are going to talk about and what time it is at on the video, like:
11:30 - TvZ state
16:00 - RO 16 GSL
21:00 - Nada retirement
........etc etc.
I don't really have time to skip everything and listen to the 2 hrs talk, it would be nice for the audience to pick the topic and listen to it. Also, the show should be more control in terms of organization and timing. (Like an actualy radio/TV talk show would be great!)
---Don't know if this is the place for feedback...
JP actually does this fairly often I think. Either on the SotG blogspot or YouTube description. Might take time, or only be certain episodes.
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On June 29 2012 12:47 CruelZeratul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:45 hitpoint wrote:On June 29 2012 12:42 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:42 hitpoint wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 deathr0w wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did.
Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Just leave. 1) You are bias on hating IdrA from the start 2) You email sponsors which makes anything you say invalid Fly away little birdy I think people are missing the real enemy in this thread. It isn't Avilo or Sotg cast. Shiori is actually trying to hurt Esports by emailing teams. Attack nerds! Incontrol himself recommended we email teams rather than sponsors if we have a problem with their behaviour. I'm doing just that. Fair enough. I'm sympathetic to Avilo and all, bit it still feels like an overreaction imo. Inc apologized at the end of the show and said some nice things about Avilo, and Idra was against it from the very begining, asking JP not to bring him on. I don't think Idra has to apologize for anything. So if you say you don't like someone from the get go you can talk as much trash as you want? What kind of logic is that?
He asked not to be put in that situation and he was anyway, against his will. The person who put him there should be held responsible, if you think anyone should be. The logic is sound.
I don't really think what happened was a big deal myself, but whatever floats your boat.
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Why is everyone so mad? They were having a civilized balance discussion, Avilo went full retard (as Geoff and Idra knew he would) and then Idra told him to shut up (which, is the conclusion Geoff and Idra both knew would result). If you make a moron out of you yourself you should get called out for it imo.
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On June 29 2012 12:49 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:42 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:
[quote]
I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself.
He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought.
If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. He did act civil up until the point when Avilo pretty much destroyed his credibility by arguing really stupidly. tbh I am kind of glad he shut everything down, it was stupid and ridicolous and shouldn't have happened To continue having this conversation with Shiori is equivalent of Greg continuing the conversation with Avilo. One obviously has his own agenda and will listen to nothing that the other says. It's time to just hang up and stop feeding the indignant troll. By the way Shi, Greg hanging up mid call would not only paint him in an even worse light (and people would crucify him as a coward), but it would probably piss off the team/sponsors even more than his "reprehensible actions" by not doing shout outs at the end of the show.
Cute. I must say, it is ironic that people defending Idra do so in the same manner that he's being criticized for.
I have no agenda, lol. What agenda could I possibly have? Do you have any evidence?
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On June 29 2012 12:49 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:39 Shaddar wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:
[quote]
I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself.
He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought.
If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. Oh come on you would not be able to act civilly when talking to someone you really don't like and respect, I know I wouldn't. Edit: Not to mention he tried to act civilly at first then got fed up Actually, most of us non-famous people actually DO have to deal with people we don't like, and actually DO manage to pull it off, because unlike Idra, we little people can't get away with being a douche-bag to those that we don't like, because if we do, we get called out on it. But Idra can do whatever he damn well pleases because hey, he's Idra.
Sure, if you're not having a debate with them, at a certain point you just get fed up
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On June 29 2012 12:48 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:46 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:45 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:44 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:41 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:
[quote]
Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself. There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable. No its actually completely excusable. He was put into a situation which he didn't want to be in, and if he had prior knowledge about it he most likely wouldn't have agreed to do the show seeing as he was upset about it right as they were calling him. That...doesn't make it excusable at all. Lol. It's never excusable to act like a complete dick in a (somewhat) professional capacity. And thats where you and I differ. We've solved nothing. I don't have a problem if you differ. I'm saying I don't support this behaviour because it disgusts me, and evidently it disgusts others too or we wouldn't have this controversy.
You know what disgusts me? Pretentious whiners like you.
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On June 29 2012 12:41 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:39 Silencioseu wrote:On June 29 2012 12:01 Dodgin wrote:
I don't know about you guys but I'm much more disappointed at incontrol basically teaming up with idra and acting as his enabler, It's obvious Idra never wanted to talk to Avilo in the first place and he should not have been forced into the situation. JP should not have brought on Avilo.
But Incontrol your behavior is actually just fucking disgusting, I thought you were better than that.
This show proved a few things to me:
QXC is a smart guy and can debate well, Idra can debate well if he's not angry.
JP listens to the stream chat when he shouldn't
QXC and Nony are extremely respectful guys.
Incontrol, despite how he acts like a nice guy at events he casts and hosts, can be a pretty big bully. I agree with most of your points except maybe 2 points: -Idra can't argue at all. When idra was debating over tvz with qxc, qxc said that terrans had to get "greedy" to be on par with zerg late-game, but then zergs can all in them, and Idra said that you cannot all in with 6 queens on the field without giving out any fact or prove to his point, which is untrue anyways since with 6 queens you can drone freely to reach an economy to "all in" but still be able to recover.- JP really shown himself there, he just got avilo on after incontrol told him so they could get all the "drama" up and running, while laughing at the background, completely unprofessional. Esports would've been better without fluff like SOTG and JP. Dude wait what? You understand Zerg better than Idra?
Maybe i put my opinion incorrectly. When qxc and idra were arguing, qxc would point something he believes is imbalanced and Idra would blindly deny it, without backing it up with any argument.
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On June 29 2012 12:47 CruelZeratul wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:45 hitpoint wrote:On June 29 2012 12:42 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:42 hitpoint wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 deathr0w wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did.
Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Just leave. 1) You are bias on hating IdrA from the start 2) You email sponsors which makes anything you say invalid Fly away little birdy I think people are missing the real enemy in this thread. It isn't Avilo or Sotg cast. Shiori is actually trying to hurt Esports by emailing teams. Attack nerds! Incontrol himself recommended we email teams rather than sponsors if we have a problem with their behaviour. I'm doing just that. Fair enough. I'm sympathetic to Avilo and all, bit it still feels like an overreaction imo. Inc apologized at the end of the show and said some nice things about Avilo, and Idra was against it from the very begining, asking JP not to bring him on. I don't think Idra has to apologize for anything. So if you say you don't like someone from the get go you can talk as much trash as you want? What kind of logic is that?
Not only did the person you responded to never actually say that if they don't like someone that they can trash talk them all they want, but on top of that IdrA didn't even trash talk him other than a condescending remark here or there. Why are you even bringing this kind of stuff up when it isn't relevant?
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On June 29 2012 12:50 NotAPro wrote:
Why is everyone so mad? They were having a civilized balance discussion, Avilo went full retard (as Geoff and Idra knew he would) and then Idra told him to shut up (which, is the conclusion Geoff and Idra both knew would result). If you make a moron out of you yourself you should get called out for it imo.
Because 20% of the community is flipping the conversation thinking that Incontrol was blatantly mocking Avilo during the call and that JP was laughing and calling him an idiot during the call and that Idra was screaming and shouting down Avilo's well made points that he previously prepared by talking to all the top Korean Terrans about the state of TvZ.
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On June 29 2012 12:51 Shaddar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:49 codonbyte wrote:On June 29 2012 12:39 Shaddar wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did.
Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. Oh come on you would not be able to act civilly when talking to someone you really don't like and respect, I know I wouldn't. Edit: Not to mention he tried to act civilly at first then got fed up Actually, most of us non-famous people actually DO have to deal with people we don't like, and actually DO manage to pull it off, because unlike Idra, we little people can't get away with being a douche-bag to those that we don't like, because if we do, we get called out on it. But Idra can do whatever he damn well pleases because hey, he's Idra. Sure, if you're not having a debate with them, at a certain point you just get fed up
I don't buy this. It's one thing if you're in a courtroom with the guy who raped your mother or something, but the biggest beef between Avilo and Idra is that they are both hotheads who talk about balance a lot and that they've both shit talked each other in the past. Hardly dirty laundry.
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This whole fiasco looks rigged like WWE
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X9rNG.jpg)
