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On June 29 2012 12:51 Silencioseu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:41 Denzil wrote:On June 29 2012 12:39 Silencioseu wrote:On June 29 2012 12:01 Dodgin wrote:
I don't know about you guys but I'm much more disappointed at incontrol basically teaming up with idra and acting as his enabler, It's obvious Idra never wanted to talk to Avilo in the first place and he should not have been forced into the situation. JP should not have brought on Avilo.
But Incontrol your behavior is actually just fucking disgusting, I thought you were better than that.
This show proved a few things to me:
QXC is a smart guy and can debate well, Idra can debate well if he's not angry.
JP listens to the stream chat when he shouldn't
QXC and Nony are extremely respectful guys.
Incontrol, despite how he acts like a nice guy at events he casts and hosts, can be a pretty big bully. I agree with most of your points except maybe 2 points: -Idra can't argue at all. When idra was debating over tvz with qxc, qxc said that terrans had to get "greedy" to be on par with zerg late-game, but then zergs can all in them, and Idra said that you cannot all in with 6 queens on the field without giving out any fact or prove to his point, which is untrue anyways since with 6 queens you can drone freely to reach an economy to "all in" but still be able to recover.- JP really shown himself there, he just got avilo on after incontrol told him so they could get all the "drama" up and running, while laughing at the background, completely unprofessional. Esports would've been better without fluff like SOTG and JP. Dude wait what? You understand Zerg better than Idra? Maybe i put my opinion incorrectly. When qxc and idra were arguing, qxc would point something he believes is imbalanced and Idra would blindly deny it, without backing it up with any argument.
That's false, especially since many times QXC would actually agree with IdrA on many points... one time even saying something along the lines of "fair enough" and stopping after that, because he agreed with what IdrA.
... but you know... it's just so much better to make shit up and pretend like this is all a big deal, right? 
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On June 29 2012 12:51 MiX wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:48 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:46 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:45 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:44 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:41 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:40 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming.
He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Yeah just leave the call thats real mature. Idra gave the people EXACTLY what they wanted, and again my old point still stands. I'm glad he remained himself instead of putting on a fake smile for people such as yourself. There's nothing particularly good about "being yourself" if you happy to be a rather mean-spirited person. Again, whether or not Idra did this out of his integrity (unlikely) is irrelevant. It's still inexcusable. No its actually completely excusable. He was put into a situation which he didn't want to be in, and if he had prior knowledge about it he most likely wouldn't have agreed to do the show seeing as he was upset about it right as they were calling him. That...doesn't make it excusable at all. Lol. It's never excusable to act like a complete dick in a (somewhat) professional capacity. And thats where you and I differ. We've solved nothing. I don't have a problem if you differ. I'm saying I don't support this behaviour because it disgusts me, and evidently it disgusts others too or we wouldn't have this controversy. You know what disgusts me? Pretentious whiners like you.
He's having a calm discussion and you're name-calling and flaming him.
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On June 29 2012 12:40 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:39 Shaddar wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:25 PanN wrote:
[quote]
I dont think he was a badass for cussing or insulting avilo. I think he's a man because he stayed by what he felt instead of putting on a fake smile to talk with someone he didn't expect to talk with / clearly did not want to talk with just to appease people such as yourself.
He also let avilo speak after avilo criticized idra for interrupting, then what did avilo do right after? Interrupt and condescendingly keeps saying Idra agrees yet Idra was saying something completely different than what Avilo thought.
If I was in idras position, I probably would have told him at that point to stfu as well. I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did. Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. Oh come on you would not be able to act civilly when talking to someone you really don't like and respect, I know I wouldn't. When I don't act civilly in a public forum just because I don't like someone, I get in trouble. Look at professional sports. What happens when two players who don't like each other let personal issues into the game or press conference or whatever? They get reprimanded. It's simple.
Did you email EG when IdrA refused to shake crunchers hand at an MLG? Or when he flipped off HuK way back then?
IdrA is not the type of person to supress his emotions towards other people. Stop being so self-entitled and settle down. Two massive personality's crashed and emotions flew, that is all.. to feel like you have to take matters into your own hands shows how truely inflated your own ego actually is..
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On June 29 2012 12:53 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:51 Silencioseu wrote:On June 29 2012 12:41 Denzil wrote:On June 29 2012 12:39 Silencioseu wrote:On June 29 2012 12:01 Dodgin wrote:
I don't know about you guys but I'm much more disappointed at incontrol basically teaming up with idra and acting as his enabler, It's obvious Idra never wanted to talk to Avilo in the first place and he should not have been forced into the situation. JP should not have brought on Avilo.
But Incontrol your behavior is actually just fucking disgusting, I thought you were better than that.
This show proved a few things to me:
QXC is a smart guy and can debate well, Idra can debate well if he's not angry.
JP listens to the stream chat when he shouldn't
QXC and Nony are extremely respectful guys.
Incontrol, despite how he acts like a nice guy at events he casts and hosts, can be a pretty big bully. I agree with most of your points except maybe 2 points: -Idra can't argue at all. When idra was debating over tvz with qxc, qxc said that terrans had to get "greedy" to be on par with zerg late-game, but then zergs can all in them, and Idra said that you cannot all in with 6 queens on the field without giving out any fact or prove to his point, which is untrue anyways since with 6 queens you can drone freely to reach an economy to "all in" but still be able to recover.- JP really shown himself there, he just got avilo on after incontrol told him so they could get all the "drama" up and running, while laughing at the background, completely unprofessional. Esports would've been better without fluff like SOTG and JP. Dude wait what? You understand Zerg better than Idra? Maybe i put my opinion incorrectly. When qxc and idra were arguing, qxc would point something he believes is imbalanced and Idra would blindly deny it, without backing it up with any argument. That's false, especially since many times QXC would actually agree with IdrA on many points... one time even saying something along the lines of "fair enough" and stopping after that, because he agreed with what IdrA. ... but you know... it's just so much better to make shit up and pretend like this is all a big deal, right?
Maybe Idra should take a leaf from QXC and learn how to disagree with people without insulting someone. He couldn't even manage to disagree with MKP without saying the latter isn't knowledgeable about the game.
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Seemed like 'almost' usual state of the game stuff to me. Last episode was great, this one had a little drama that could've been avoided, i'll give you guys that much. IdrA didn't act very mature here but. . i don't know-- could anyone have expected anything different? It's a show he's usually part of as well, he shouldn't have to bend himself backwards for one dude's argument, whom honestly, also wasn't acting the complete saint everyone's picturing him out to be either. Just because IdrA mains zerg doesn't mean his level of knowledge of T matchups is less than that of a lesser player who happens to main terran. i don't see why everyone is screaming murder when he just got battrered around a bit. Oversensitive much?
shit happens.
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On June 29 2012 12:52 Cwall(Progamer) wrote:
Okay so here is the situation so far
-Avilo askes politely in chat last week about coming on to discuss the current state of TvZ. Fans in the chat want him on because he knows his stuff
I really shouldn't disregard a post at all especially one with effort made but I stopped reading here.
never made no effort was made in that post.
You cannot be serious, you either aren't in the loop or haven't seen any Avilo posts of the past 2 years.
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On June 29 2012 12:52 Cwall(Progamer) wrote:
Okay so here is the situation so far
-Avilo askes politely in chat last week about coming on to discuss the current state of TvZ. Fans in the chat want him on because he knows his stuff
-JP says no because geoff is the terran expert for the week; Geoff "InControl" Robinson states "I spend the entireity of my time being surrendered by professional pro starcraft players and I discuss strategy with them, I guarentee you I know more about terran than 99.999% of you listening."
-SotG makes fun of avilo for even wanting to come on, they don't let him on that week
this week
-Avilo comes on
-Everyone is hyped up because State of the Old Boys Club have been talking about how "fucking retarded" (idra on this state of the games epsiode) avilo is
-everyone excepts avilo to be a loud mouth guy and start screaming profanities
-Avilo is actually well spoken, goes over several points; expanding onto what qxc was trying to explain earlier and bringing up new discussion including how zergs can safely get to 3 bases and all-in from there, while if the terran goes 3cc he is extremely vulernable to zerg attacks (while the zerg is not)
-idra tells avilo to "shut the fuck up" and incontrol and the old boys continue to make fun of him
-JP kicks him off the show after the being made the jester of The State of The Game.
I can't be the only one who has a problem with this. It's very disrespectful as a community and even to our sponsors. I would feel ashamed if I was MLG about this - JP provoked and elevated a situation which wasn't going to be a "racial slang throwing contest." He didn't butt in when idras only responses to Avilo were "shut the fuck up" and other ad hoimen. This episode of state of the game draws the line for me not only as a high level player that enjoys hearing high level discussion, but also as a spectator. It promotes the image that SC2 is a very immature community and that we'll fling shit at you if you disagree. I'm disappointed in this episode of state of the game, JP for acting irresponibility, idra for not being able to have a well-thought out discussion with out resorting to race jokes and incontrol for pushing them both along.
Absolutely disgusting
Oh come on, Avilo was not being well spoken, and he did not expand onto QXC's point, QXC found a few interesting points in Avilo's mess. There was more to the shut he fuck up from Idra, but I agree, that does not completely justify it
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On June 29 2012 12:52 Cwall(Progamer) wrote:
Okay so here is the situation so far
-Avilo askes politely in chat last week about coming on to discuss the current state of TvZ. Fans in the chat want him on because he knows his stuff
-JP says no because geoff is the terran expert for the week; Geoff "InControl" Robinson states "I spend the entireity of my time being surrendered by professional pro starcraft players and I discuss strategy with them, I guarentee you I know more about terran than 99.999% of you listening."
-SotG makes fun of avilo for even wanting to come on, they don't let him on that week
this week
-Avilo comes on
-Everyone is hyped up because State of the Old Boys Club have been talking about how "fucking retarded" (idra on this state of the games epsiode) avilo is
-everyone excepts avilo to be a loud mouth guy and start screaming profanities
-Avilo is actually well spoken, goes over several points; expanding onto what qxc was trying to explain earlier and bringing up new discussion including how zergs can safely get to 3 bases and all-in from there, while if the terran goes 3cc he is extremely vulernable to zerg attacks (while the zerg is not)
-idra tells avilo to "shut the fuck up" and incontrol and the old boys continue to make fun of him
-JP kicks him off the show after the being made the jester of The State of The Game.
I can't be the only one who has a problem with this. It's very disrespectful as a community and even to our sponsors. I would feel ashamed if I was MLG about this - JP provoked and elevated a situation which wasn't going to be a "racial slang throwing contest." He didn't butt in when idras only responses to Avilo were "shut the fuck up" and other ad hoimen. This episode of state of the game draws the line for me not only as a high level player that enjoys hearing high level discussion, but also as a spectator. It promotes the image that SC2 is a very immature community and that we'll fling shit at you if you disagree. I'm disappointed in this episode of state of the game, JP for acting irresponibility, idra for not being able to have a well-thought out discussion with out resorting to race jokes and incontrol for pushing them both along.
Absolutely disgusting
Please, if you are going to outline the events, at least do it in an non bias matter, so people don't actually believe the trash u just wrote is actually what happened.
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On June 29 2012 12:54 xOny wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:40 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:39 Shaddar wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did.
Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. Oh come on you would not be able to act civilly when talking to someone you really don't like and respect, I know I wouldn't. When I don't act civilly in a public forum just because I don't like someone, I get in trouble. Look at professional sports. What happens when two players who don't like each other let personal issues into the game or press conference or whatever? They get reprimanded. It's simple. Did you email EG when IdrA refused to shake crunchers hand at an MLG? Or when he flipped off HuK way back then? IdrA is not the type of person to supress his emotions towards other people. Stop being so self-entitled and settle down. Two massive personality's crashed and emotions flew, that is all.. to feel like you have to take matters into your own hands shows how truely inflated your own ego actually is..
No, I didn't email them because I wasn't involved in the community, and they were isolated incidents which occurred right after losses or were not particularly cruel.
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Another thing is that people forget that they were having a debate. As someone who does debate, interrupting your opponent can cost you the debate, and it's pretty much a no-no, no matter what the circumstances are. Now, interrupting your opponent multiple times during a debate can incur penalties from your team/coach, and usually stern talking to. With that in mind, think about debating someone like Avilo (who is notorious for the manner in which he both conducts himself, and the manner he presents his points) as Idra, who already has a negative predisposition towards him, and repeatedly stated he didn't want him on.
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On June 29 2012 12:54 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:53 Chicane wrote:On June 29 2012 12:51 Silencioseu wrote:On June 29 2012 12:41 Denzil wrote:On June 29 2012 12:39 Silencioseu wrote:On June 29 2012 12:01 Dodgin wrote:
I don't know about you guys but I'm much more disappointed at incontrol basically teaming up with idra and acting as his enabler, It's obvious Idra never wanted to talk to Avilo in the first place and he should not have been forced into the situation. JP should not have brought on Avilo.
But Incontrol your behavior is actually just fucking disgusting, I thought you were better than that.
This show proved a few things to me:
QXC is a smart guy and can debate well, Idra can debate well if he's not angry.
JP listens to the stream chat when he shouldn't
QXC and Nony are extremely respectful guys.
Incontrol, despite how he acts like a nice guy at events he casts and hosts, can be a pretty big bully. I agree with most of your points except maybe 2 points: -Idra can't argue at all. When idra was debating over tvz with qxc, qxc said that terrans had to get "greedy" to be on par with zerg late-game, but then zergs can all in them, and Idra said that you cannot all in with 6 queens on the field without giving out any fact or prove to his point, which is untrue anyways since with 6 queens you can drone freely to reach an economy to "all in" but still be able to recover.- JP really shown himself there, he just got avilo on after incontrol told him so they could get all the "drama" up and running, while laughing at the background, completely unprofessional. Esports would've been better without fluff like SOTG and JP. Dude wait what? You understand Zerg better than Idra? Maybe i put my opinion incorrectly. When qxc and idra were arguing, qxc would point something he believes is imbalanced and Idra would blindly deny it, without backing it up with any argument. That's false, especially since many times QXC would actually agree with IdrA on many points... one time even saying something along the lines of "fair enough" and stopping after that, because he agreed with what IdrA. ... but you know... it's just so much better to make shit up and pretend like this is all a big deal, right? Maybe Idra should take a leaf from QXC and learn how to disagree with people without insulting someone. He couldn't even manage to disagree with MKP without saying the latter isn't knowledgeable about the game.
I agree, maybe IdrA should learn to disagree with someone without insulting me, which brings me back to my first response to you.
On June 29 2012 12:44 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:40 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:39 Shaddar wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:27 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
I don't think being a "man" is taking down someone else because you think they're not making a good argument. That's called being a child, in my books. I spend a lot of time debating with creationists and bigots, both of whom I think are incredibly ignorant, but I would never dream of insulting them personally, and definitely not to the degree that Idra did.
Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. Oh come on you would not be able to act civilly when talking to someone you really don't like and respect, I know I wouldn't. When I don't act civilly in a public forum just because I don't like someone, I get in trouble. Look at professional sports. What happens when two players who don't like each other let personal issues into the game or press conference or whatever? They get reprimanded. It's simple. Most people here would agree that IdrA did not act as well as he could have in that situation. Why can't you just say "I think IdrA shouldn't have been so rude to Avilo" or something along those lines. Instead you are constantly trying to make this seem like it is the biggest fucking deal... talking about how players get punished, and implying that IdrA should face some consequences for telling someone to STFU. My god... just let it go man. We understand... IdrA could have acted better in that situation. So could Avilo. It honestly isn't a big deal. Please stop trying to make it seem like one.
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Wow, so interesting to see people having two completely different interpretations of what's going on in the show.
Will be interesting to listen to in mp3, but in most cases there's probably an issue with both parties. If people can be of separate opinions that the other party has done something wrong whilst their party is flawless, then there's most likely an issue with both sides of the party.
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On June 29 2012 12:52 Cwall(Progamer) wrote:
Okay so here is the situation so far
-Avilo askes politely in chat last week about coming on to discuss the current state of TvZ. Fans in the chat want him on because he knows his stuff
-JP says no because geoff is the terran expert for the week; Geoff "InControl" Robinson states "I spend the entireity of my time being surrendered by professional pro starcraft players and I discuss strategy with them, I guarentee you I know more about terran than 99.999% of you listening."
-SotG makes fun of avilo for even wanting to come on, they don't let him on that week
this week
-Avilo comes on
-Everyone is hyped up because State of the Old Boys Club have been talking about how "fucking retarded" (idra on this state of the games epsiode) avilo is
-everyone excepts avilo to be a loud mouth guy and start screaming profanities
-Avilo is actually well spoken, goes over several points; expanding onto what qxc was trying to explain earlier and bringing up new discussion including how zergs can safely get to 3 bases and all-in from there, while if the terran goes 3cc he is extremely vulernable to zerg attacks (while the zerg is not)
-idra tells avilo to "shut the fuck up" and incontrol and the old boys continue to make fun of him
-JP kicks him off the show after the being made the jester of The State of The Game.
I can't be the only one who has a problem with this. It's very disrespectful as a community and even to our sponsors. I would feel ashamed if I was MLG about this - JP provoked and elevated a situation which wasn't going to be a "racial slang throwing contest." He didn't butt in when idras only responses to Avilo were "shut the fuck up" and other ad hoimen. This episode of state of the game draws the line for me not only as a high level player that enjoys hearing high level discussion, but also as a spectator. It promotes the image that SC2 is a very immature community and that we'll fling shit at you if you disagree. I'm disappointed in this episode of state of the game, JP for acting irresponibility, idra for not being able to have a well-thought out discussion with out resorting to race jokes and incontrol for pushing them both along.
Absolutely disgusting
The vast majority of people wanted Avilo on the show for the exact thing that just happened. People who think Avilo "knows his shit" are quite a small minority.
Avilos points were not well spoken and pretty much all had to be clarified by QxC
And then at the end he shows why everyone thinks he's a joke, Idra calls him out, game over.
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On June 29 2012 12:56 Cwall(Progamer) wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:54 Denzil wrote:On June 29 2012 12:52 Cwall(Progamer) wrote:
Okay so here is the situation so far
-Avilo askes politely in chat last week about coming on to discuss the current state of TvZ. Fans in the chat want him on because he knows his stuff
I'm sorry, I'm so sorry I really shouldn't disregard a post at all especially one with effort made but I stopped reading here. You cannot be serious, you either aren't in the loop or haven't seen any Avilo posts of the past 2 years. He asked politely in chat. He wanted to come on. The other members in chat were supportive of him as a whole.
Because Avilo understand TvZ balance right?
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On June 29 2012 12:56 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:54 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:53 Chicane wrote:On June 29 2012 12:51 Silencioseu wrote:On June 29 2012 12:41 Denzil wrote:On June 29 2012 12:39 Silencioseu wrote:On June 29 2012 12:01 Dodgin wrote:
I don't know about you guys but I'm much more disappointed at incontrol basically teaming up with idra and acting as his enabler, It's obvious Idra never wanted to talk to Avilo in the first place and he should not have been forced into the situation. JP should not have brought on Avilo.
But Incontrol your behavior is actually just fucking disgusting, I thought you were better than that.
This show proved a few things to me:
QXC is a smart guy and can debate well, Idra can debate well if he's not angry.
JP listens to the stream chat when he shouldn't
QXC and Nony are extremely respectful guys.
Incontrol, despite how he acts like a nice guy at events he casts and hosts, can be a pretty big bully. I agree with most of your points except maybe 2 points: -Idra can't argue at all. When idra was debating over tvz with qxc, qxc said that terrans had to get "greedy" to be on par with zerg late-game, but then zergs can all in them, and Idra said that you cannot all in with 6 queens on the field without giving out any fact or prove to his point, which is untrue anyways since with 6 queens you can drone freely to reach an economy to "all in" but still be able to recover.- JP really shown himself there, he just got avilo on after incontrol told him so they could get all the "drama" up and running, while laughing at the background, completely unprofessional. Esports would've been better without fluff like SOTG and JP. Dude wait what? You understand Zerg better than Idra? Maybe i put my opinion incorrectly. When qxc and idra were arguing, qxc would point something he believes is imbalanced and Idra would blindly deny it, without backing it up with any argument. That's false, especially since many times QXC would actually agree with IdrA on many points... one time even saying something along the lines of "fair enough" and stopping after that, because he agreed with what IdrA. ... but you know... it's just so much better to make shit up and pretend like this is all a big deal, right? Maybe Idra should take a leaf from QXC and learn how to disagree with people without insulting someone. He couldn't even manage to disagree with MKP without saying the latter isn't knowledgeable about the game. I agree, maybe IdrA should learn to disagree with someone without insulting me, which brings me back to my first response to you. Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:44 Chicane wrote:On June 29 2012 12:40 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:39 Shaddar wrote:On June 29 2012 12:38 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:37 Aocowns wrote:On June 29 2012 12:36 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:34 PanN wrote:On June 29 2012 12:32 Shiori wrote:On June 29 2012 12:30 PanN wrote:
[quote]
Luckily I didn't say that. Also you know the people you debate? Yeah, I doubt both people in your argument have a history of loathing each other and were forced to speak right? Yeah, thats right. Nobody here was forced to speak. Idra could very easily have said he didn't wish to appear tonight on SotG, much like other people have done. I have no idea why you're making so many excuses for an adult. Because someone doesn't like you is no excuse to attack their character. Just look at Avilo. He managed to get through the discussion without flaming much at all. And no, interrupting is not flaming. He didn't know avilo was showing up making your entire point invalid. I'm not making excuses for him, you're clearly not reading what I'm writing (based on your last post and this one) if you think I'm just making excuses. One of the magical things about Skype is that you can hang up when someone you don't like joins the call. And yes, that would have been infinitely less rude than berating someone just because you don't like him. What is this, kindergarten? Can people seriously not control themselves just because they have a bad history with someone? Do you seriously think it would be the right thing of Idra to do to just hang up on them because Avilo came? No, I think the right thing to do would have been to act civilly, but since Idra is apparently incapable of that (judging by the excuses people have been making for him) hanging up would have been a happy compromise. Oh come on you would not be able to act civilly when talking to someone you really don't like and respect, I know I wouldn't. When I don't act civilly in a public forum just because I don't like someone, I get in trouble. Look at professional sports. What happens when two players who don't like each other let personal issues into the game or press conference or whatever? They get reprimanded. It's simple. Most people here would agree that IdrA did not act as well as he could have in that situation. Why can't you just say "I think IdrA shouldn't have been so rude to Avilo" or something along those lines. Instead you are constantly trying to make this seem like it is the biggest fucking deal... talking about how players get punished, and implying that IdrA should face some consequences for telling someone to STFU. My god... just let it go man. We understand... IdrA could have acted better in that situation. So could Avilo. It honestly isn't a big deal. Please stop trying to make it seem like one.
I'm not treating it like the biggest fucking deal. It's not a big deal in the scheme of things, nor in the scheme of my life. Hell, it's not even that big of a deal for eSports. Nevertheless, it's big enough of a deal that I care enough to talk about it.
Besides, Idra's had tonnes of chances to be civil and improve his attitude. Hasn't happened.
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On June 29 2012 12:52 Cwall(Progamer) wrote:
Okay so here is the situation so far
-Avilo askes politely in chat last week about coming on to discuss the current state of TvZ. Fans in the chat want him on because he knows his stuff
-JP says no because geoff is the terran expert for the week; Geoff "InControl" Robinson states "I spend the entireity of my time being surrendered by professional pro starcraft players and I discuss strategy with them, I guarentee you I know more about terran than 99.999% of you listening."
-SotG makes fun of avilo for even wanting to come on, they don't let him on that week
this week
-Avilo comes on
-Everyone is hyped up because State of the Old Boys Club have been talking about how "fucking retarded" (idra on this state of the games epsiode) avilo is
-everyone excepts avilo to be a loud mouth guy and start screaming profanities
-Avilo is actually well spoken, goes over several points; expanding onto what qxc was trying to explain earlier and bringing up new discussion including how zergs can safely get to 3 bases and all-in from there, while if the terran goes 3cc he is extremely vulernable to zerg attacks (while the zerg is not)
-idra tells avilo to "shut the fuck up" and incontrol and the old boys continue to make fun of him
-JP kicks him off the show after the being made the jester of The State of The Game.
I can't be the only one who has a problem with this. It's very disrespectful as a community and even to our sponsors. I would feel ashamed if I was MLG about this - JP provoked and elevated a situation which wasn't going to be a "racial slang throwing contest." He didn't butt in when idras only responses to Avilo were "shut the fuck up" and other ad hoimen. This episode of state of the game draws the line for me not only as a high level player that enjoys hearing high level discussion, but also as a spectator. It promotes the image that SC2 is a very immature community and that we'll fling shit at you if you disagree. I'm disappointed in this episode of state of the game, JP for acting irresponibility, idra for not being able to have a well-thought out discussion with out resorting to race jokes and incontrol for pushing them both along.
Absolutely disgusting
I'm being sincere when I ask this.
Can you please just admit that your post is full of bias, for your sanity and my own? Thanks in advance.
Edit: Dear lord... I just read the post above this one...
How is this...
Wow.
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On June 29 2012 12:56 Cwall(Progamer) wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:54 Denzil wrote:On June 29 2012 12:52 Cwall(Progamer) wrote:
Okay so here is the situation so far
-Avilo askes politely in chat last week about coming on to discuss the current state of TvZ. Fans in the chat want him on because he knows his stuff
I'm sorry, I'm so sorry I really shouldn't disregard a post at all especially one with effort made but I stopped reading here. You cannot be serious, you either aren't in the loop or haven't seen any Avilo posts of the past 2 years. He asked politely in chat. He wanted to come on. The other members in chat were supportive of him as a whole.
He means you cannot be serious in saying that Avilo knows his stuff -_-' basic reading comprehension.
EDIT: And yes, your entire post is basically bias.... It's from Avilo's perspective or a fan of Avilo and is made to make literally everyone else on the podcast the badguy.
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EPT
