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On March 29 2012 19:54 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:47 iNcontroL wrote:
we do a public show for free... the shit we as hosts get on a regular basis from people in this thread does not somehow get justified by it "being public."
You want to pay us money? Do it, then you get to bitch when we do stuff you don't like. Up until then you can absolutely bitch and moan but it's a free service so you just look like an ass. So people aren't allowed to voice their concerns over the show because it's free? If you're deciding to create a show you're opening yourself up to both praise and critic you can't realistically expect just to get the upside without the downside. .
I dont get that attitude either, if you offer a product or service then it doesn't matter if it's free or paid. I dont care if a product/service is free or not, if i see something i dont like about it, i will say it. If you offer me something for free, it better be good otherwise dont bother and if it's there is no alternative available i will complain the crap out of it.
Just because something is for free is not a reason not to criticize something, that's ridiculous. If you dont want any criticism, then dont offer it but for god sake dont bring out the excuse: 'it's free, shut up and be happy about it' cause that just makes you look like a dummy who doesn't takes his customers/members/viewers what ever etc seriously.
The hole 'you shouldn't complain when you get something for free' is just such a silly statement, when you have genuine arguments about a free service/product you should complain about it until they fix or change it.
About the show, i kinda like SOTG and watch it sometimes on youtube and i dont really care about technical problems like bad audio cause i know there's basically no software to run a perfect podcast (skype + xfire = crap for exmaple) + most guest wont have the equipment to do so and if it's not watchable imo, i just dont watch it.
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On March 29 2012 21:35 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:54 RvB wrote:On March 29 2012 19:47 iNcontroL wrote:
we do a public show for free... the shit we as hosts get on a regular basis from people in this thread does not somehow get justified by it "being public."
You want to pay us money? Do it, then you get to bitch when we do stuff you don't like. Up until then you can absolutely bitch and moan but it's a free service so you just look like an ass. So people aren't allowed to voice their concerns over the show because it's free? If you're deciding to create a show you're opening yourself up to both praise and critic you can't realistically expect just to get the upside without the downside. . I dont get that attitude either, if you offer a product or service then it doesn't matter if it's free or paid. I dont care if a product/service is free or not, if i see something i dont like about it, i will say it. If you offer me something for free, it better be good otherwise dont bother and if it's there is no alternative available i will complain the crap out of it. Just because something is for free is not a reason not to criticize something, that's ridiculous. If you dont want any criticism, then dont offer it but for god sake dont bring out the excuse: 'it's free, shut up and be happy about it' cause that just makes you look like a dummy who doesn't takes his customers/members/viewers what ever etc seriously. The hole 'you shouldn't complain when you get something for free' is just such a silly statement, when you have genuine arguments about a free service/product you should complain about it until they fix or change it. About the show, i kinda like SOTG and watch it sometimes on youtube and i dont really care about technical problems like bad audio cause i know there's basically no software to run a perfect podcast (skype + xfire = crap for exmaple) + most guest wont have the equipment to do so and if it's not watchable imo, i just dont watch it.
First of all, you are completely wrong when it comes to paid versus free services. If they were to charge money for SOTG they would have more resources to make it better. Time is a limited resource by the way, and SOTG has to compete with other activities the hosts might want to spend time on (work, play, practice, travel, eat, sleep, etc). Some of these activities generate money, and SOTG does not. So guess which activities gets the highest priority? Also, SOTG does not necessarily help the hosts achieving goals like being a better SC2 player either.
I'm not saying you shouldn't complain about free stuff, but just don't complain about things that are limited because of resources like time and money. And don't expect the worlds best audio or video when it is free.
PS: The tone of your complaints are also important.
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The audio needs work, what I used to like about SotG way back was how I could go walking/running with it. The audio as it is, is not something I can listen to hours on comfortably. I don't think it's an issue with the recording equipment of each participant but all the audio programs JP has to have on simultaneously, that was the impression I was left with from one of the recent shows. Maybe the audio can be cleaned a bit afterwards, run it through a noisegate or limiter. I guess it could take sometime, but I bet you could find a bunch of volunteers to do it. I think I could do that myself.
If better audio somehow collides with video, then I think audio should always come first. Everyone listening to the show knows what the people on it look like anyways. Getting the webcams aligned seems like a terrible pain anyways, if it was my show I'd cut video altogether.
One other thing is the call-ins, I usually skip those parts compeletely (except for Goatlust on itg). The callers either stumble with their words for a while, can't speak comprehensible English or just come up with trash questions. And I'm not even going to touch the occasional trolls ( although Boris Cutyourcockoff was hilarious ). Neither are we going to hear from any Europeans at those hours, which is not a problem per se, but might enrichen the topics a bit.
I guess the reason to stop taking in written question is the sheer amount of e-mails, which is a pain to deal with.
Then again, Day[9] always seems to get pretty good questions at the end of Dailies so maybe there is some way to step up on that department.
If someone reads this: when is PAX East?
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On March 29 2012 22:00 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
If someone reads this: when is PAX East?
PAX is April 6-8... so just a few weeks away
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agreed tone is important
heres what i think, with the vast sums sotg makes they should employ an intern to monitor the thread and pass up the chain anything useful that froths to the top. incontrol et al should promise themselves in some sort of blood oath never to read this thread because its mostly ridiculous. and also I'm sure it gives a skewed view, i mean, the reason sotg is so popular is coz its so popular. the moaning here doesn't reflect the overall feeling/love/passion/devotion/fannishness the show enjoys.
ie. please incontrol stop reading us and just keep doing what u r doing <333
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8748 Posts
On March 29 2012 21:35 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:54 RvB wrote:On March 29 2012 19:47 iNcontroL wrote:
we do a public show for free... the shit we as hosts get on a regular basis from people in this thread does not somehow get justified by it "being public."
You want to pay us money? Do it, then you get to bitch when we do stuff you don't like. Up until then you can absolutely bitch and moan but it's a free service so you just look like an ass. So people aren't allowed to voice their concerns over the show because it's free? If you're deciding to create a show you're opening yourself up to both praise and critic you can't realistically expect just to get the upside without the downside. . I dont get that attitude either, if you offer a product or service then it doesn't matter if it's free or paid. I dont care if a product/service is free or not, if i see something i dont like about it, i will say it. If you offer me something for free, it better be good otherwise dont bother and if it's there is no alternative available i will complain the crap out of it. Just because something is for free is not a reason not to criticize something, that's ridiculous. If you dont want any criticism, then dont offer it but for god sake dont bring out the excuse: 'it's free, shut up and be happy about it' cause that just makes you look like a dummy who doesn't takes his customers/members/viewers what ever etc seriously. The hole 'you shouldn't complain when you get something for free' is just such a silly statement, when you have genuine arguments about a free service/product you should complain about it until they fix or change it. About the show, i kinda like SOTG and watch it sometimes on youtube and i dont really care about technical problems like bad audio cause i know there's basically no software to run a perfect podcast (skype + xfire = crap for exmaple) + most guest wont have the equipment to do so and if it's not watchable imo, i just dont watch it.
In this spirit, it's fair to criticize the critics who criticize the show. The consensus is that most of them give bad criticisms.
All the critics pointing out how we've gotten worse at things like having a regular schedule, having everyone on the show together, having good chemistry and lots of things to talk about and good production must know that we know these things. We didn't suddenly forget that a regular schedule with a full crew is nice. We didn't forget that having good audio and graphics is good. We didn't forget that watching every game and reading up on every issue are helpful.
When those are their criticisms, what they're actually saying is that they're upset that we're giving the show less time and attention at the moment. It's this implication under the veil of criticism that leads us to responding that the show is free. Criticisms of effort and priorities are not applicable.
For counterexample, if we sold year subscriptions and the quality dropped due to lack of effort then we would take more responsibility for our efforts and priorities.
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Whine whine whine whine....sigh.It is a FREE show, stop bitching about it!There is a pretty big difference between bitching and offering constructive criticism and this thread has passed that line many times in almost every page of it.
Thanks for the show guys!You rock!
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When you are doing something, make it to represent yourself. The show at this moment looks like it's running just not to stop.
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If we didn't complain about it, you wouldn't think anyone cared, and would put even less effort into trying to keep to a schedule.
If someone complains that you aren't providing enough content, take it as a compliment. Don't get all defensive and start calling out your critics as 15 year olds with no lives.
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This thread should have been in the fan club section, or should come with a list in the OP on things people are allowed to criticize on.
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On March 29 2012 22:52 Longshank wrote:
This thread should have been in the fan club section, or should come with a list in the OP on things people are allowed to criticize on.
1. Constructive criticism!
2. Keep in mind that they are lacking both time and funds to meet some of our high expectations. It's like I wrote earlier in my post.
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On March 29 2012 21:48 Zythius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:35 TheSir wrote:On March 29 2012 19:54 RvB wrote:On March 29 2012 19:47 iNcontroL wrote:
we do a public show for free... the shit we as hosts get on a regular basis from people in this thread does not somehow get justified by it "being public."
You want to pay us money? Do it, then you get to bitch when we do stuff you don't like. Up until then you can absolutely bitch and moan but it's a free service so you just look like an ass. So people aren't allowed to voice their concerns over the show because it's free? If you're deciding to create a show you're opening yourself up to both praise and critic you can't realistically expect just to get the upside without the downside. . I dont get that attitude either, if you offer a product or service then it doesn't matter if it's free or paid. I dont care if a product/service is free or not, if i see something i dont like about it, i will say it. If you offer me something for free, it better be good otherwise dont bother and if it's there is no alternative available i will complain the crap out of it. Just because something is for free is not a reason not to criticize something, that's ridiculous. If you dont want any criticism, then dont offer it but for god sake dont bring out the excuse: 'it's free, shut up and be happy about it' cause that just makes you look like a dummy who doesn't takes his customers/members/viewers what ever etc seriously. The hole 'you shouldn't complain when you get something for free' is just such a silly statement, when you have genuine arguments about a free service/product you should complain about it until they fix or change it. About the show, i kinda like SOTG and watch it sometimes on youtube and i dont really care about technical problems like bad audio cause i know there's basically no software to run a perfect podcast (skype + xfire = crap for exmaple) + most guest wont have the equipment to do so and if it's not watchable imo, i just dont watch it. First of all, you are completely wrong when it comes to paid versus free services. If they were to charge money for SOTG they would have more resources to make it better. Time is a limited resource by the way, and SOTG has to compete with other activities the hosts might want to spend time on (work, play, practice, travel, eat, sleep, etc). Some of these activities generate money, and SOTG does not. So guess which activities gets the highest priority? Also, SOTG does not necessarily help the hosts achieving goals like being a better SC2 player either. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain about free stuff, but just don't complain about things that are limited because of resources like time and money. And don't expect the worlds best audio or video when it is free. PS: The tone of your complaints are also important.
In fact, I would say your PS is the most important point raised in all this whining. Feel free to raise any questions or complaints, but doing it while sounding entitled and whiny is just classless and stupid. There is a difference between:
"Hey guys! love your show! Wonder if it is possible to get better mics? Only thing I would think to improve upon. Once again, love the show, can't wait till next week <3"
And this:
"I dont get that attitude either, if you offer a product or service then it doesn't matter if it's free or paid. I dont care if a product/service is free or not, if i see something i dont like about it, i will say it. If you offer me something for free, it better be good otherwise dont bother and if it's there is no alternative available i will complain the crap out of it."
Do people not realize that if you are going to complain, it takes a lot less energy to sound somewhat respectful and grateful than whiny and angry. It is a free show. They are busy. It is also free. So their equipment isn't great and sometimes they don't have time. How exactly do you want them to remedy this while remaining free?
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On March 29 2012 22:58 Zythius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:52 Longshank wrote:
This thread should have been in the fan club section, or should come with a list in the OP on things people are allowed to criticize on. 1. Constructive criticism! 2. Keep in mind that they are lacking both time and funds to meet some of our high expectations. It's like I wrote earlier in my post.
Wheat is a busy man as well but he still does the show. JP is THAT busy that he can't be at home for 2 hours to make the show? You don't need all the team there, bring some pro players that know what they are talking about. But make a show about the scene.
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In 2012 we had 6 SotGs. And the last couple weeks off December there was only that drunk episode.
And except for JP, nobody attended all episodes. Day9 missed 5, Artosis 3(?), Tyler 2(?) and iNcontroL 1.
I know it is a free show, but it used to be freaking awesome, and now you guys are really far from awesome.
I don't even know what went down the shitter the most compared to 2011.
( ) IdrA results
( ) SotG quality
lol.
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Can't wait till the next one guys, really awesome show :D
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Man people on the internet have an enormous sense of unwarranted entitlement 
It's a great show and always entertaining. Thanks heaps to all the pillars for their respective efforts and I look forward to the revamp and the regularity when SOTG comes back.
PS: iNcontroL has a valid point too when he says that the show is free and as such some of the criticism directed at it is irrelevant. If no transaction occurs between the entity that is SOTG and you, the viewer, then you have no right to make demands of SOTG. As a free service provided to the community at large the community has only three options; enjoy the show, offer feedback which may affect the direction the show goes in or, do not watch. SOTG doesn't have any obligations to its viewers other than those it chooses for itself. There needs to be less dissociation of real world and internet expectations and morals.
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On March 29 2012 21:48 Zythius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:35 TheSir wrote:On March 29 2012 19:54 RvB wrote:On March 29 2012 19:47 iNcontroL wrote:
we do a public show for free... the shit we as hosts get on a regular basis from people in this thread does not somehow get justified by it "being public."
You want to pay us money? Do it, then you get to bitch when we do stuff you don't like. Up until then you can absolutely bitch and moan but it's a free service so you just look like an ass. So people aren't allowed to voice their concerns over the show because it's free? If you're deciding to create a show you're opening yourself up to both praise and critic you can't realistically expect just to get the upside without the downside. . I dont get that attitude either, if you offer a product or service then it doesn't matter if it's free or paid. I dont care if a product/service is free or not, if i see something i dont like about it, i will say it. If you offer me something for free, it better be good otherwise dont bother and if it's there is no alternative available i will complain the crap out of it. Just because something is for free is not a reason not to criticize something, that's ridiculous. If you dont want any criticism, then dont offer it but for god sake dont bring out the excuse: 'it's free, shut up and be happy about it' cause that just makes you look like a dummy who doesn't takes his customers/members/viewers what ever etc seriously. The hole 'you shouldn't complain when you get something for free' is just such a silly statement, when you have genuine arguments about a free service/product you should complain about it until they fix or change it. About the show, i kinda like SOTG and watch it sometimes on youtube and i dont really care about technical problems like bad audio cause i know there's basically no software to run a perfect podcast (skype + xfire = crap for exmaple) + most guest wont have the equipment to do so and if it's not watchable imo, i just dont watch it. First of all, you are completely wrong when it comes to paid versus free services. If they were to charge money for SOTG they would have more resources to make it better. Time is a limited resource by the way, and SOTG has to compete with other activities the hosts might want to spend time on (work, play, practice, travel, eat, sleep, etc). Some of these activities generate money, and SOTG does not. So guess which activities gets the highest priority? Also, SOTG does not necessarily help the hosts achieving goals like being a better SC2 player either. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain about free stuff, but just don't complain about things that are limited because of resources like time and money. And don't expect the worlds best audio or video when it is free. PS: The tone of your complaints are also important.
This is compltely wrong. SOTG generates a lot of potential income. It should definitely be treated as part of their job.
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On March 30 2012 00:13 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:48 Zythius wrote:On March 29 2012 21:35 TheSir wrote:On March 29 2012 19:54 RvB wrote:On March 29 2012 19:47 iNcontroL wrote:
we do a public show for free... the shit we as hosts get on a regular basis from people in this thread does not somehow get justified by it "being public."
You want to pay us money? Do it, then you get to bitch when we do stuff you don't like. Up until then you can absolutely bitch and moan but it's a free service so you just look like an ass. So people aren't allowed to voice their concerns over the show because it's free? If you're deciding to create a show you're opening yourself up to both praise and critic you can't realistically expect just to get the upside without the downside. . I dont get that attitude either, if you offer a product or service then it doesn't matter if it's free or paid. I dont care if a product/service is free or not, if i see something i dont like about it, i will say it. If you offer me something for free, it better be good otherwise dont bother and if it's there is no alternative available i will complain the crap out of it. Just because something is for free is not a reason not to criticize something, that's ridiculous. If you dont want any criticism, then dont offer it but for god sake dont bring out the excuse: 'it's free, shut up and be happy about it' cause that just makes you look like a dummy who doesn't takes his customers/members/viewers what ever etc seriously. The hole 'you shouldn't complain when you get something for free' is just such a silly statement, when you have genuine arguments about a free service/product you should complain about it until they fix or change it. About the show, i kinda like SOTG and watch it sometimes on youtube and i dont really care about technical problems like bad audio cause i know there's basically no software to run a perfect podcast (skype + xfire = crap for exmaple) + most guest wont have the equipment to do so and if it's not watchable imo, i just dont watch it. First of all, you are completely wrong when it comes to paid versus free services. If they were to charge money for SOTG they would have more resources to make it better. Time is a limited resource by the way, and SOTG has to compete with other activities the hosts might want to spend time on (work, play, practice, travel, eat, sleep, etc). Some of these activities generate money, and SOTG does not. So guess which activities gets the highest priority? Also, SOTG does not necessarily help the hosts achieving goals like being a better SC2 player either. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain about free stuff, but just don't complain about things that are limited because of resources like time and money. And don't expect the worlds best audio or video when it is free. PS: The tone of your complaints are also important. This is compltely wrong. SOTG generates a lot of potential income. It should definitely be treated as part of their job.
I don't think a 2-3 hour weekly (admittedly, it's been a lot less frequent than weekly) cast that hasn't run an ad all year generates much income.
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On March 30 2012 00:17 Reedjr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 00:13 Hider wrote:On March 29 2012 21:48 Zythius wrote:On March 29 2012 21:35 TheSir wrote:On March 29 2012 19:54 RvB wrote:On March 29 2012 19:47 iNcontroL wrote:
we do a public show for free... the shit we as hosts get on a regular basis from people in this thread does not somehow get justified by it "being public."
You want to pay us money? Do it, then you get to bitch when we do stuff you don't like. Up until then you can absolutely bitch and moan but it's a free service so you just look like an ass. So people aren't allowed to voice their concerns over the show because it's free? If you're deciding to create a show you're opening yourself up to both praise and critic you can't realistically expect just to get the upside without the downside. . I dont get that attitude either, if you offer a product or service then it doesn't matter if it's free or paid. I dont care if a product/service is free or not, if i see something i dont like about it, i will say it. If you offer me something for free, it better be good otherwise dont bother and if it's there is no alternative available i will complain the crap out of it. Just because something is for free is not a reason not to criticize something, that's ridiculous. If you dont want any criticism, then dont offer it but for god sake dont bring out the excuse: 'it's free, shut up and be happy about it' cause that just makes you look like a dummy who doesn't takes his customers/members/viewers what ever etc seriously. The hole 'you shouldn't complain when you get something for free' is just such a silly statement, when you have genuine arguments about a free service/product you should complain about it until they fix or change it. About the show, i kinda like SOTG and watch it sometimes on youtube and i dont really care about technical problems like bad audio cause i know there's basically no software to run a perfect podcast (skype + xfire = crap for exmaple) + most guest wont have the equipment to do so and if it's not watchable imo, i just dont watch it. First of all, you are completely wrong when it comes to paid versus free services. If they were to charge money for SOTG they would have more resources to make it better. Time is a limited resource by the way, and SOTG has to compete with other activities the hosts might want to spend time on (work, play, practice, travel, eat, sleep, etc). Some of these activities generate money, and SOTG does not. So guess which activities gets the highest priority? Also, SOTG does not necessarily help the hosts achieving goals like being a better SC2 player either. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain about free stuff, but just don't complain about things that are limited because of resources like time and money. And don't expect the worlds best audio or video when it is free. PS: The tone of your complaints are also important. This is compltely wrong. SOTG generates a lot of potential income. It should definitely be treated as part of their job. I don't think a 2-3 hour weekly (admittedly, it's been a lot less frequent than weekly) cast that hasn't run an ad all year generates much income.
SOTG is the reason most people on SOTG are popular (barring Day9 and artosis). Tyler/Incontrol haven't had the best results in tournaments, but the fact that they are very entertaining and hilarious on SotG has made them as popular as those that have had great results. And without SotG, I don't think JP would be nearly as well known in the community as he is now. There is no direct income from SotG, but if you think they gain nothing from doing the show you are in denial.
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I think people are a bit ciritical at times (like me)  .
But wanting proper Audio on something like Sotg does not really seem "out of this world"?
I mean.. I use Teamspeak nearly daily and it's plain better than what Sotg delivers atm and I just wonder WHY???
Strange thing is, Sotg had good sound quality when it was "new" (when not overtuned by Inc's keyboard  ).
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EPT
