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On December 07 2011 15:39 dapierow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 15:35 gogatorsfoster wrote:
I have to agree with Day9 and Artosis. Mech is harder to do. But it could be stronger and win a higher percentage of games. Incontrol is not making the most sense to me :\. This isnt fucking masters league where people will just spam marine tank or M&M all day, these guys are fucking proffesionals in these games and will do anything necessary to win.
What they're saying is that all terran professionals know that mech is stronger than any other strategy but since it is so hard no one will try to use it.which is absolutely absurd.
You're actually so wrong its funny. A lot of the korean " pros " barely practice.
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On December 07 2011 15:42 GeorgeForeman wrote:
I feel like Artosis's entire argument is predicated on the idea that Goody is horrible but still has marginal success. Therefore, Mech must be better than we think.
I find that very amusing. :-)
I don't think that goody even uses mech anymore in TvP though
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On December 07 2011 15:35 AxionSteel wrote:
Well if Day9 is as good as he thinks he is, GM with all races or whatever the hell, maybe he should be trying it himself.
hes not
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I tend to believe that blink stalkers are too good against mech. Turret rings don't protect against a blink into your base.
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It was interesting, thanks sotg guys 
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great show so far tonight =)
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That was a fantastic discussion. I love the strat portion of the show. Thanks for that Sean :D
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On December 07 2011 15:43 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I tend to believe that blink stalkers are too good against mech. Turret rings don't protect against a blink into your base.
Every protoss unit is too good vs mech, that's the problem imo. Chargelot, blink stalkers, colossi, immortals, void rays, even carriers are all good vs mech.
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On December 07 2011 15:39 dapierow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 15:35 gogatorsfoster wrote:
I have to agree with Day9 and Artosis. Mech is harder to do. But it could be stronger and win a higher percentage of games. Incontrol is not making the most sense to me :\. This isnt fucking masters league where people will just spam marine tank or M&M all day, these guys are fucking proffesionals in these games and will do anything necessary to win.
What they're saying is that all terran professionals know that mech is stronger than any other strategy but since it is so hard no one will try to use it.which is absolutely absurd.
That's not what they're saying. They're saying that terran professionals are not doing mech in TvP because the current TvP mech strategies/builds/timings aren't good enough, so basically an entire team would have to devote all of their Terran/Protoss players to practicing and devising new strategies/builds/timings in TvP and iterating and reiterating and then bullet-proofing it all, and etc etc and only for the possibility that it could end up being better than the current style which is already pretty damn effective.
So they are not saying that terran professionals are not going mech because it's too hard TO PLAY MECH.
They are saying that terran professionals are not going mech because it's too hard TO DEVISE A STYLE OF MECH THAT WOULD CONSISTENTLY WORK.
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On December 07 2011 15:42 Arcanne wrote:
hallucinated immortals have harden shell
blink stalkers harassment kills thors hellions and tanks in small quantities
mech doesn't work
You're predicating this on the idea that the tanks are sieged ALL the time. We've already seen interesting timing pushes with Tanks that don't have siege, but they fell off because "Well tanks need Siege Mode."
Tanks do some INSANE DPS when unsieged.
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On December 07 2011 15:40 nekuodah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 15:39 dapierow wrote:On December 07 2011 15:35 gogatorsfoster wrote:
I have to agree with Day9 and Artosis. Mech is harder to do. But it could be stronger and win a higher percentage of games. Incontrol is not making the most sense to me :\. This isnt fucking masters league where people will just spam marine tank or M&M all day, these guys are fucking proffesionals in these games and will do anything necessary to win.
What they're saying is that all terran professionals know that mech is stronger than any other strategy but since it is so hard no one will try to use it.which is absolutely absurd. They arnt saying that, they are saying its not explored deep enough because bio is much easier and pros are all about winning so why waste time trying to learn a new style when you can improve your current one and keep winning money.
And I think Geoff's argument is that if Mech is that much better than bio why not practice the fuck out of it and rape EVERYONE there is. I don't see how mech would be that good unless you are playing perfect games, which is what Artosis is saying. But like he has said countless times about BW, rarely were perfect games played. So if it does take near perfect or completely perfect play to do well in Mech why bother.
I still can't see why you would leave units like Ghost and Marauder when they almost specifically counter protoss in general.
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love strategy talks <3 <3 <3
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On December 07 2011 15:42 Arcanne wrote:
hallucinated immortals have harden shell
blink stalkers harassment kills thors hellions and tanks in small quantities
mech doesn't work
Pretty sure this is not true.
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On December 07 2011 15:43 Arcanne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 15:35 AxionSteel wrote:
Well if Day9 is as good as he thinks he is, GM with all races or whatever the hell, maybe he should be trying it himself.
hes not
I fucking swear, "How good is Day[9]" should be the foreigner version of Elephant in the Room...
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On December 07 2011 15:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 15:42 Arcanne wrote:
hallucinated immortals have harden shell
blink stalkers harassment kills thors hellions and tanks in small quantities
mech doesn't work You're predicating this on the idea that the tanks are sieged ALL the time. We've already seen interesting timing pushes with Tanks that don't have siege, but they fell off because "Well tanks need Siege Mode." Tanks do some INSANE DPS when unsieged.
and they can all walk up a ramp and through chokes at one time
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I understand where both sides are coming from, but I think to say that korean terrans havent "tried" mech in TVP is a pretty absurd statement.
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On December 07 2011 15:45 blooblooblahblah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 15:42 Arcanne wrote:
hallucinated immortals have harden shell
blink stalkers harassment kills thors hellions and tanks in small quantities
mech doesn't work Pretty sure this is not true.
They actually take 20 damage instead of 10. So kind of like hardened shell.
edit check out liquipedia at hallucinated immortal.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hallucination
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On December 07 2011 15:44 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 15:43 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I tend to believe that blink stalkers are too good against mech. Turret rings don't protect against a blink into your base. Every protoss unit is too good vs mech, that's the problem imo. Chargelot, blink stalkers, colossi, immortals, void rays, even carriers are all good vs mech.
That's an oversimplification. You can watch a good protoss army get absolutley torn to shreds by mech composition. Mech's problem has been and will always be it's lack of mobility. Blink stalkers are the perfect unit to punish lack of mobility.
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Sometimes Artosis is completely wrong. Lol at him saying the reason we don't see mech is b/c terran pros haven't tried it or worked on it enough. I would LOVE to hear Jinro's thoughts right now.
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Thanks for hosting the show!
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EPT
