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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1397

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
July 20 2011 20:32 GMT
#27921
JP now goes from one host to the next, when he used to present the topic and the hosts would just discuss it as a normal conversation with each other


God forbid if they speak out of turn. ^.^
Maliris
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
July 20 2011 20:34 GMT
#27922
On July 21 2011 05:03 kckkryptonite wrote:
Kind of saw this coming, before people would complain about drama/arguments/unprofessionalism all the time, but I've said it's what made the show interesting.

yeah cause the same people complaining about that are now complaining about this
"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."
imPERSONater
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1324 Posts
July 20 2011 20:36 GMT
#27923
On July 21 2011 05:34 Maliris wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 05:03 kckkryptonite wrote:
Kind of saw this coming, before people would complain about drama/arguments/unprofessionalism all the time, but I've said it's what made the show interesting.

yeah cause the same people complaining about that are now complaining about this


Hit the nail on the head. People are going to be unhappy regardless of what you do. The rest of us love it so I wouldn't worry about people who need to complain to be satisfied.
Fan of: IdrA, Sen, Stephano, Snute, Axlav, Hero
MuseMike
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1339 Posts
July 20 2011 20:41 GMT
#27924
On July 21 2011 04:52 Astro-Penguin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 03:53 setzer wrote:
The last episode was, in my opinion, one of the very worst I have listened to. The lack of humor from people like incontrol/day9, no actual guest like Naniwa and redundant "roles" by JP and Leah just made this episode very, very boring. I don't feel like Leah is qualified to be on the show as a permanent pillar. SotG doesn't need another person to ask questions, we have JP for that. What SotG does need are knowledgeable people that give game insight not many others have. Leah doesn't bring this. I couldn't finish the episode out of boredom.

As someone else said before, this show has become the "state of e-sports" and no longer the "state of the game." For a few weeks now the focus has almost solely been on recent events and large tournaments. I think it is fine to talk about GSL and other every week but it doesn't need to be the focus of every show. I'd rather listen to Tyler talk about how his PvT is developing and where he thinks the future is on that matchup.

Lastly, if a controversial subject like sixjax Major is brought up, why can't everyone show the opinions on this? Instead all we got was a single answer from Artosis and they moved on to another topic. What does Tyler think of people who smurf in tournaments? I'd be more interested in the show if everyone wasn't so PC about things. I always am most interested when balance discussions are brought up because everyone has a differing view on the subject. Listening to Day9 argue with Idra doesn't get old.

Anyway, many of these issues are quite minor, but after the great first week since the hiatus I expected a more return to what originally made SotG great. With competing shows going on now, if the quality of SotG continues to suffer, my time will be spent listening to those instead.


I agree and stuff like this is contributing to the inevitable fall of E-Sports. If you compare yesterdays show to a shows back in December it is quiet obvious that they lost their passion years ago.


You have to be trolling. Sweet baby Jesus I hope you are trolling. JP is working full-time at MLG, that is showing his passion for E-sports. Artosis is probably the person most in love with the game and most the passionate. Obviously some may say Tyler lost his passion, but it seems like there are other personal reasons for not being able to show it via practice/tournament results.

I'm hoping you are trolling, but in case you weren't I went ahead and posted this lol.
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
July 20 2011 20:46 GMT
#27925
I agree and stuff like this is contributing to the inevitable fall of E-Sports.


lollllllllll my life is complete. I hope Tasteless doesn't read this comment. O_O
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
July 20 2011 20:51 GMT
#27926
On July 21 2011 05:46 nvs. wrote:
Show nested quote +
I agree and stuff like this is contributing to the inevitable fall of E-Sports.


lollllllllll my life is complete. I hope Tasteless doesn't read this comment. O_O

"It hasn't been the same since JP lost his passion for the game!" *pushes up glasses*
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
itmeJP
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1101 Posts
July 20 2011 21:36 GMT
#27927
VOD is up

http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/72272-state-of-the-game-ep-44
Twitter.com/itmeJP -- Twitch.tv/itmeJP -- YouTube.com/itmeJP
Sithril
Profile Joined April 2011
Slovakia169 Posts
July 20 2011 21:43 GMT
#27928
itmeJP, how come the MLG player doesn't allow video quality adjustment for SotG episodes? :-/ My PC doesn't handle 1080p and 720p very well.
Aurdon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2007 Posts
July 20 2011 21:52 GMT
#27929
Is anyone else getting their CPU sent to max usage playing the vod?

My pc is getting way overtaxed.

NickOgden
Profile Joined July 2011
13 Posts
July 20 2011 21:52 GMT
#27930
itmeJP, I'm trying to phrase this in a way that's the most constructive. But when you plan out the show, is there a way that you could set apart the actual playing of the game from the general chat about the life of SC2?

I find that throughout the show there are absolute gems of advice, but I, and I really think others, are tuning in to here about game discussion rather than the day to day life of a pro gamer

I realise that a great deal of people are tuning in to hear about what's up in the community and treat state of the game as a SC2 reality show, and it has it's place. I was just wondering if a more overt split could be possible, just so it's easier to tune out the things we're not interested in. Which would of course also work well for those that don't have any interest in nuts and bolts game discussion.

Thanks

nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
July 20 2011 22:00 GMT
#27931

I find that throughout the show there are absolute gems of advice, but I, and I really think others, are tuning in to here about game discussion rather than the day to day life of a pro gamer


Sounds like you need to watch Inside The Game instead.
Dragar
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom971 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-20 22:42:38
July 20 2011 22:42 GMT
#27932
On July 21 2011 02:22 flodeskum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 01:35 Dragar wrote:
True, but again. This is due to blink, not the damage output.


Absolutely agreed. Blink is an extremely powerful ability in large engagements, and often surprisingly neglected. MC is one of the few I've seen that really exploits the ability to its max.

I think everyone would agree stalkers are not powerful because of their damage. It's also true that reducing their damage versus non-armoured would reduce their power.

It certainly would. But the thing is mass blink stalkers are only good in pvz and even there they still need large numbers to become really scary. So why look at the unit and not the matchup?

But then there's the thing of why hydras don't _really_ deal with stalkers. They do beat them hands down in a straight fight and with lings it really isn't close. But because hydras lack a speed upgrade they can't really get that fight and being so slow they don't really work offensively either. Could the hydra not be the real problem here?

Then there's also the need to consider how 8 damage stalkers would affect a protoss' ability to deal with early marine-based pushes. Or their ability to deny scouting workers, not to mention their already shitty harass capabilities. A change to a core unit like the stalker has a large effect on all protoss matchups.

Also keep in mind that just because a build seems really strong now, that doesn't mean that balance changes are needed. How many top level pvz's have you seen recently featuring the colossus/voidray build?


I don't disagree with any of that really, and I'd be particularly wary of touching stalkers even if we did all decide there was a problem in ZvP. I very much agree that Protoss would struggle against marine pressure or even hellion harass if you nerfed stalker damage versus light. It's quite finely tuned as it is.

But I don't agree hydras beat stalkers hands down. If you play in the unit tester a bit, you will be able to come out fairly evenly with even numbers of stalkers to hydras when off-creep and using blink. With Protoss always able to choose the engagement, I'd never say hydras beat stalkers 'hands down'. They just trade, a situation which usually favours the zerg (though stalkers can run away and hydras can't).

Pulzlulz
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany412 Posts
July 20 2011 22:43 GMT
#27933
OH MY GOD, HE LOST HIS PASSION


[image loading]
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-20 22:52:01
July 20 2011 22:51 GMT
#27934
On July 21 2011 05:20 JustPassingBy wrote:

Btw. that German Szenentalk thing, are there vods? I'd love to watch it!


Only mp3 right now. http://www.sc2pro.de/?page_id=76
MCDayC
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14464 Posts
July 20 2011 22:55 GMT
#27935
On July 21 2011 07:42 Dragar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 02:22 flodeskum wrote:
On July 21 2011 01:35 Dragar wrote:
True, but again. This is due to blink, not the damage output.


Absolutely agreed. Blink is an extremely powerful ability in large engagements, and often surprisingly neglected. MC is one of the few I've seen that really exploits the ability to its max.

I think everyone would agree stalkers are not powerful because of their damage. It's also true that reducing their damage versus non-armoured would reduce their power.

It certainly would. But the thing is mass blink stalkers are only good in pvz and even there they still need large numbers to become really scary. So why look at the unit and not the matchup?

But then there's the thing of why hydras don't _really_ deal with stalkers. They do beat them hands down in a straight fight and with lings it really isn't close. But because hydras lack a speed upgrade they can't really get that fight and being so slow they don't really work offensively either. Could the hydra not be the real problem here?

Then there's also the need to consider how 8 damage stalkers would affect a protoss' ability to deal with early marine-based pushes. Or their ability to deny scouting workers, not to mention their already shitty harass capabilities. A change to a core unit like the stalker has a large effect on all protoss matchups.

Also keep in mind that just because a build seems really strong now, that doesn't mean that balance changes are needed. How many top level pvz's have you seen recently featuring the colossus/voidray build?


I don't disagree with any of that really, and I'd be particularly wary of touching stalkers even if we did all decide there was a problem in ZvP. I very much agree that Protoss would struggle against marine pressure or even hellion harass if you nerfed stalker damage versus light. It's quite finely tuned as it is.

But I don't agree hydras beat stalkers hands down. If you play in the unit tester a bit, you will be able to come out fairly evenly with even numbers of stalkers to hydras when off-creep and using blink. With Protoss always able to choose the engagement, I'd never say hydras beat stalkers 'hands down'. They just trade, a situation which usually favours the zerg (though stalkers can run away and hydras can't).


IF Hydras trade evenly with Stalkers, provided the Protoss has perfect micro and is off creep, then that would be fine for the zerg. However, they are never able (as you said) to engage on their own terms. Therefore Hydras need an upgrade, to make them even better than Stalkers, as Hydras already have so many disadvantages. I would suggest a slight (very small) upgrade to Hydras off creep, and an upgrade to their health. It would just mean that they are able to dictate battles slightly better, and be slightly better in combat. It would not affect TvZ (because it that matchup Hydras are le suck) and would only help in certain situations, but it would give another method of Z to deal with blink Stalkers.
That being said, I think the problems Zerg are having is mainly temporary. There have been loads of compositions that were called imbalanced in PvZ that have stopped being popular. Void Ray Colossus, almost pure Sentries was popular and thought broken for a while, Colossus Sentry Zealot Stalker Deathball was thought to be unkillable, now it is at least manageable. I think that whatever Protoss is using as their final composition becomes the problem for Zerg in the matchup, and so far most of the development has been how to deal with these compositions. Soon Zealot Archon will be the problem, and then after that an even newer setup will be considered broken. Time will tell.
VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG
sureshot_
Profile Joined August 2010
United States257 Posts
July 20 2011 22:55 GMT
#27936
On July 21 2011 03:49 darksage78 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 03:14 SinCitta wrote:
I think a lot of its charm stems from the fact that the players just talk to each other and especially that they talk about their own games and tournament experiences. They make a cognitive walk through their games, explain why they did this and that, what they thought and what they should have done better.

THIS is what I feel has been lacking since SoTG's return. It's become Q&A Roundtable hour whereas it used to be just a conversation amongst the pillars - which is why I tuned in cause of the relaxed atmosphere and the way they were doing things. JP now goes from one host to the next, when he used to present the topic and the hosts would just discuss it as a normal conversation with each other. Looks like there needs to be a little less micro management, just macro to keep the convo from going too far off on a tangent.


DOUBLE THIS. I really hope JP reads this, because while the show is still interesting to watch, it is far more entertaining to listen to 4 guys/girls have a discussion/argument that isn't so restrictive. I hate having to listen to "Okay, X, it's your turn."
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-20 22:57:23
July 20 2011 22:56 GMT
#27937
On July 21 2011 05:22 Pyre wrote:
The show could use a heel or troll like charecter. Someone that could fire up artosis or call tyler out when he gives a vague awnser. As others said the show was better when it felt free flowing, the format now is very strict. I'm not sure how imformed Leah is, every awnser she gave was IEM or TSL3. This makes me believe this is the only 2 turnoments she has kept up with. I hope she not on the show only because she is a women.

I also liked when the show was longer, old shows were about three hours. Lately they have been 90 minutes. I think Artosis was a great addition to the show. I'm not a hater, I listen every week.


She watches a royal fuck-ton of Starcraft 2... Those are by no means the only tournaments she has kept up with. On previous episodes, she has corrected and reminded the pillars about occurrences in GSL matches, great match-ups such as sC and MVP and shit like that.

Strayline
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States330 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-20 23:14:41
July 20 2011 23:14 GMT
#27938
Kind of dry now without iNcontrol to be honest. I you need someone like him for the moments when Tyler says something like "You'll know when I'm practicing because I'll win the next tournament" and everyone else just doesn't really react except to say "Yeah Tyler--you are really that good."
SlipperySnake
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
248 Posts
July 20 2011 23:18 GMT
#27939
On July 21 2011 03:53 setzer wrote:
The last episode was, in my opinion, one of the very worst I have listened to. The lack of humor from people like incontrol/day9, no actual guest like Naniwa and redundant "roles" by JP and Leah just made this episode very, very boring. I don't feel like Leah is qualified to be on the show as a permanent pillar. SotG doesn't need another person to ask questions, we have JP for that. What SotG does need are knowledgeable people that give game insight not many others have. Leah doesn't bring this. I couldn't finish the episode out of boredom.

As someone else said before, this show has become the "state of e-sports" and no longer the "state of the game." For a few weeks now the focus has almost solely been on recent events and large tournaments. I think it is fine to talk about GSL and other every week but it doesn't need to be the focus of every show. I'd rather listen to Tyler talk about how his PvT is developing and where he thinks the future is on that matchup.

Lastly, if a controversial subject like sixjax Major is brought up, why can't everyone show the opinions on this? Instead all we got was a single answer from Artosis and they moved on to another topic. What does Tyler think of people who smurf in tournaments? I'd be more interested in the show if everyone wasn't so PC about things. I always am most interested when balance discussions are brought up because everyone has a differing view on the subject. Listening to Day9 argue with Idra doesn't get old.

Anyway, many of these issues are quite minor, but after the great first week since the hiatus I expected a more return to what originally made SotG great. With competing shows going on now, if the quality of SotG continues to suffer, my time will be spent listening to those instead.


Damn, I was about to make this exact post. I would go a little further than you in saying that day9 isn't even that funny. I mean if you just look at State of the Game highlights they are all Incontrol. I am not saying he is a god or something but they haven't replaced him with anyone who is nearly as funny. Even the first week when I was glad it came back so I didn't really care about the quality I found myself getting bored.

Leah seems to ask good questions but she brings no entertainment value to the show it is like having a second JP. Get someone who has some kind of real opinion rather than me having to slog through a couple hours for just a few insights on the actual game. I don't give a damn about you going through each GSL series and giving me a quick recap. Don't waste my time, if you actually have something to say about a series then bring it up but don't just read them off like an announcement.

Please guys you have to either find someone that can be truly funny to distract me from the boring parts of the show or structure the show so it isn't just a snorefest round table where only the first person really has an opinion and the rest just repeat it.
SlipperySnake
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
248 Posts
July 20 2011 23:21 GMT
#27940
On July 21 2011 08:14 Strayline wrote:
Kind of dry now without iNcontrol to be honest. I you need someone like him for the moments when Tyler says something like "You'll know when I'm practicing because I'll win the next tournament" and everyone else just doesn't really react except to say "Yeah Tyler--you are really that good."


I know I just did a double post but this is just so damn emblematic of what is wrong with SOTG now. Yeah it is pretty incredible that everyone just took that with a straight face. There is no way Geoff would have let that go without giving him shit. There is no crosstalk or conversation or anythings besides bullshitting.
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