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On July 20 2011 22:50 RogerChillingworth wrote:
"TvZ is impossible to play at all levels" - JP
What? Lol.
And yeah, this last episode was kind of slow. The one thing I loved was Artosis mentioning the possible [slight] stalker nerf back to 8 (+6) instead of 10 (+4). Maybe it's not the best solution to the problem, but it was nice to hear the problem at least mentioned on a public forum. Most of all from a protoss player.
Blink really fucks with the dynamic of the game--seems more like a Warcraft ability--and no one else can get away with making one unit with so much success, ease of execution, map control, and stability.
Yeah I laughed at that to lol.
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would have to agree SOTG had been lacking the last 2 weeks, it's not the show it used to be with Geoff.......... sad but true!
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It's a new cast of people and they need time to meld. Sure listening to arguments that were slightly about SC2 was amusing at times, but did that many people not get annoyed at the constant -
JP - So who watched last night's GSL/IPL/etc games?
Tyler - No P's...
Sean - Busy, but I heard they were awesome.
*crickets*
JP - Moving on
Artosis and Leah both watch a crap ton of games. Artosis can talk about them in detail normally and at least Leah can remind the rest as to who played and what races were present.
It seems people of my sort are a vocal minority at least, but I'd rather listen to bland discussion about games and hope they develop better chemistry than skip over entire nights of tournament thoughts because no one watched the games. Most of the lengthy debates were never about SC as a game, but as a community. I guess I just don't care about community drama. For instance I liked the glancing "Major acted like a douche" treatment. It's been noted that they all agree he is or at least acted the part of an immature idiot. Great now on to stuff that involves people playing the game.
That said last night's show was a bit lacking simply due to no guest and being down Day9.
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^ absolutely 100% agree. very nice post. But I do miss iNcontroL. :/
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On July 21 2011 01:38 Lansky wrote:
It's a new cast of people and they need time to meld. Sure listening to arguments that were slightly about SC2 was amusing at times, but did that many people not get annoyed at the constant -
JP - So who watched last night's GSL/IPL/etc games?
Tyler - No P's...
Sean - Busy, but I heard they were awesome.
*crickets*
JP - Moving on
Artosis and Leah both watch a crap ton of games. Artosis can talk about them in detail normally and at least Leah can remind the rest as to who played and what races were present.
It seems people of my sort are a vocal minority at least, but I'd rather listen to bland discussion about games and hope they develop better chemistry than skip over entire nights of tournament thoughts because no one watched the games. Most of the lengthy debates were never about SC as a game, but as a community. I guess I just don't care about community drama. For instance I liked the glancing "Major acted like a douche" treatment. It's been noted that they all agree he is or at least acted the part of an immature idiot. Great now on to stuff that involves people playing the game.
That said last night's show was a bit lacking simply due to no guest and being down Day9.
I agree with a lot of this. I feel Artosis (and Leah permanently now?) will be good for this reason, they'll always have something to talk about in "e-sports" (read: the whole tournament scene, have time to keep up with most things, it's mostly their job, etc). I saw quite a few people during the cast last night saying that the past few eps have been "State of E-Sports" and not "State of the Game", but I think it's doing alright so far to at least integrate the new hosts and let chemistry form.
It does seem to rely heavily on the guests. I did agree with someone about how JP should try to get as many "players" as guests (whole episode guests that is, not how Boss just stopped in to comment/perspective on the stuff that's going been on with him involved which was cool, and has happened before with MLG folks etc). Tyler is the only member now who is exclusively a player, and Day9 and Artosis have great (sometimes contrasting) views on the game and balance and such as occasional players and BW experience, but obviously bring much more to the table currently than just the player perspective. Naniwa seems to have expressed interest in being a guest again as well (tweets and such) which is awesome.
Maybe people are just remembering specific episodes or have a biased perspective but honestly there were a lot of really slow episodes of SotG before Geoff left as well. It just happens. Depends on subject matter, how much is going on in the scene, etc. I commute a lot for work as well as living 10 hours from home; I've listened to a majority of the episodes more than once starting with September (became regular podcast) to the most recent casts and what I love about SotG is the pace. It's not "always intense" and doesn't try to be. People speak up when they want, and conversation is spontaneous when there isn't already a lot on the plate, which at the moment I would say there is in the world of SC2. IMHO the show's changed more simply in presentation and format over the past couple months than in overall enjoyability and atmosphere, which I find similar.
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On July 21 2011 02:02 Druzal wrote:
Also if you want to ask questions of the commentators, it seems much better to send them a short list of the questions ahead of time. I'm sure it would save alot of "ummmmm airtime". Even if that list is given to them as the show is starting, they can glance at it and figure out some answers as people are talking.
This actually strikes me as a really good idea, especially if there's something interesting someone catches and they're building up the excitement to talk about it and pooling their thoughts the whole time leading up to it (totally imagining Artosis here tbh xD).
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Love the show, but I just wanted to chime in that, like others, I felt that last night's show was a bit off. It wasn't the lack of any particular hosts. I like all the hosts on the show. I think Artosis and Leah are great additions and add unique perspectives.
To me the issue was the arbitrary rules and how much of the show they effected. Previous ones seemed much more organic. The first thing to do is stop the arbitrary rules such as "one word answers" or "you can't explain it". I see that it would appear to be a way to generate conversation, it actually stifled it multiple times. Unless conversations are getting uninteresting to the listener, the host really has no reason to alter it.
Also if you want to ask questions of the commentators, it seems much better to send them a short list of the questions ahead of time. I'm sure it would save alot of "ummmmm airtime". Even if that list is given to them as the show is starting, they can glance at it and figure out some answers as people are talking.
Anyway, my criticisms only come from wanting a show I enjoy to be better =D. It's not like I'm not tuning in next week or the week after.
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To me the issue was the arbitrary rules and how much of the show they effected. Previous ones seemed much more organic. The first thing to do is stop the arbitrary rules such as "one word answers" or "you can't explain it".
Ya I'm at that part in the mp3 right now and it's just hampering discussion and interaction.
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On July 21 2011 02:05 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +To me the issue was the arbitrary rules and how much of the show they effected. Previous ones seemed much more organic. The first thing to do is stop the arbitrary rules such as "one word answers" or "you can't explain it". Ya I'm at that part in the mp3 right now and it's just hampering discussion and interaction.
agreed
it used to feel like you were just sitting in a room with a bunch of progamers and they were just chatting and having fun
now it feels very formal, very driven, very "try not to offend anyone"
it's still good, but i miss the roughness? i guess you could say. sure everyone today is PRODUCTION PRODUCTION PRODUCTION in a steve ballmer sweat but anyway.
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does anyone else have an issue with Leah on the show. The lure of state of the game is that it is about pros talking about the game. I mean i like her and everythng but unless she has an announcement to make or they are discussing about g4 stuff i would rather have the guest spot to an actual pro.
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I wish they would have more discussions instead of just naming a topic and then going around to get everyone's thoughts on it. Debates always make things interesting, but that doesn't seem to happen too often. I remember when Destiny came on to talk about streaming. That was interesting because it's a unique thing in itself. Day9 vs Idra on zerg scouting was also great to listen to.
Lately, I feel like the show is just people's opinions on topics with no real discussion. For the past few episodes, I've turned off the live show because it simply got too boring. Last night when they were talking about they're favorite tourneys/patches etc was when I turned it off because most of those answers were obvious and it was just a lot of fluff (and not to mention JP's stupid rules that went along with that). But yeah, I want to see more debates! The pillars have all proven that they are an intelligent part of this community.
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On July 21 2011 00:52 Hardigan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 22:50 adeptz wrote:
The problem is that Geoff filled in in a lot of the conversational gaps. He's articulate, always had a knowledgeable opinion on something (whether you agreed with him is a different matter though), and was funny enough to lift the mood. In short, Geoff was pretty much the glue that held the pillars together in the podcast, or was the segue that JP could count on to open a topic/transition from.
Wasn't the absence of "Cmon JP, ask me what i think...", "Well here's the deal JP.." very obvious in the last 2 episodes? While Geoff talked a lot, he'd always hit the conversational ball to someone else to continue on a topic - that's what kept SotG flowing, so to speak. Now you just get people saying a few things and that's pretty much it, and JP has to scramble to keep it moving which turns into an interview, rather than a conversation.
Not to mention you now have guests/semi-permanent pillars who don't offer a whole lot to the conversation simply because they don't know enough about it - but that's a different matter altogether. i really agree with that. those 2 episodes werent really as good as before. Incontrol was really a driving force, who makes intressting discussion happen.
I agree with this, the magic is gone, it wasn't the same, not nearly as fun. Geoff was the glue, he was the one that made the funny happen, I miss Geoff, I miss the old SotG. 
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On July 21 2011 02:11 Denizen[9] wrote:
does anyone else have an issue with Leah on the show. The lure of state of the game is that it is about pros talking about the game. I mean i like her and everythng but unless she has an announcement to make or they are discussing about g4 stuff i would rather have the guest spot to an actual pro.
Guest spot? As far as I know she's an actual new full-time pillar.
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I liked how Artosis handled the sixjaxMajor question. I think alot of these companies and organizations who come out and air out their dirty laundry (see EG's fairly recent incontrol issue regarding Sotg and ITG) should use the same approach. He represented Sixjax well with his response, he was succinct, and he got his full point across.
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On July 21 2011 01:35 Dragar wrote:Absolutely agreed. Blink is an extremely powerful ability in large engagements, and often surprisingly neglected. MC is one of the few I've seen that really exploits the ability to its max. I think everyone would agree stalkers are not powerful because of their damage. It's also true that reducing their damage versus non-armoured would reduce their power.
It certainly would. But the thing is mass blink stalkers are only good in pvz and even there they still need large numbers to become really scary. So why look at the unit and not the matchup?
But then there's the thing of why hydras don't _really_ deal with stalkers. They do beat them hands down in a straight fight and with lings it really isn't close. But because hydras lack a speed upgrade they can't really get that fight and being so slow they don't really work offensively either. Could the hydra not be the real problem here?
Then there's also the need to consider how 8 damage stalkers would affect a protoss' ability to deal with early marine-based pushes. Or their ability to deny scouting workers, not to mention their already shitty harass capabilities. A change to a core unit like the stalker has a large effect on all protoss matchups.
Also keep in mind that just because a build seems really strong now, that doesn't mean that balance changes are needed. How many top level pvz's have you seen recently featuring the colossus/voidray build?
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I just listened to the MP3.
It was... Ok, but the SC2 anniversary Q&A was painful. And I really feel(no offense to him, haha but I guess that is what people say when they want to say something offensive) that JP really tried too hard on pushing the theme of balance to get more viewers/controversy?
And some of the balance changes were pretty bad IMO, like seriously? Archon OP and should be armoured?(Yeah Marauders don't do well against P enough) and a Stalker Nerf because we all know that P has a 100% winrate against Zerg right?
It was an Ok show anyways, but the lack of Day9 really hurt the show as it was pretty dry.
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On July 20 2011 22:50 adeptz wrote:
The problem is that Geoff filled in in a lot of the conversational gaps. He's articulate, always had a knowledgeable opinion on something (whether you agreed with him is a different matter though), and was funny enough to lift the mood. In short, Geoff was pretty much the glue that held the pillars together in the podcast, or was the segue that JP could count on to open a topic/transition from.
Wasn't the absence of "Cmon JP, ask me what i think...", "Well here's the deal JP.." very obvious in the last 2 episodes? While Geoff talked a lot, he'd always hit the conversational ball to someone else to continue on a topic - that's what kept SotG flowing, so to speak. Now you just get people saying a few things and that's pretty much it, and JP has to scramble to keep it moving which turns into an interview, rather than a conversation.
Not to mention you now have guests/semi-permanent pillars who don't offer a whole lot to the conversation simply because they don't know enough about it - but that's a different matter altogether.
I agree.
SOTG is definitely lacking in the personality department now. The show doesn't feel as natural or flowing anymore to me.
PS: I miss pre-show banter.
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Having seen the "new" episodes I cannot say anything else than ... rest in peace SotG, because the new ones lack almost everything that was awesome about SotG. Maybe it will change again over time :-(
Before I even tried to stay up to see it live (starts at about 5am I believe), but not anymore.
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On July 21 2011 02:22 windsupernova wrote:
And some of the balance changes were pretty bad IMO, like seriously? Archon OP and should be armoured?(Yeah Marauders don't do well against P enough) and a Stalker Nerf because we all know that P has a 100% winrate against Zerg right?
The Archon bit was Leah's opinion, which is probably just speaking from her own experience. It's undeniable that the Archon is showing up a lot more in all 3 matchups now, but I think that's a good thing, and they don't feel ridiculous. Only my experience.
The stalker thing was coming from Artosis (P) and Tyler agreed for the most part as well. I don't think he was saying that the strategy is broken at all, I think he just stated that he felt it was really one-dimensional and silly, focusing literally only on stalkers and upgrades.
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Ahhh this "I'll explain later when it's my turn" rule is getting frustrating, it has the aura of a classroom. =(
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On July 21 2011 02:18 Jayrod wrote:
I liked how Artosis handled the sixjaxMajor question. I think alot of these companies and organizations who come out and air out their dirty laundry (see EG's fairly recent incontrol issue regarding Sotg and ITG) should use the same approach. He represented Sixjax well with his response, he was succinct, and he got his full point across.
What are you talking about??? There was no EG "dirty laundry" with Sotg and ITG. They were absolutly clean, but the community can't handle companies who doesn't really want to be 100% transparent.
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EPT
