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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1396

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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arachnidd
Profile Joined April 2011
211 Posts
July 20 2011 17:40 GMT
#27901
Any ETA on when the VOD is up?
Huge O
Profile Joined April 2011
Great Britain95 Posts
July 20 2011 17:44 GMT
#27902
The next podcast is 13 minutes after my exact birthday.
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
Chad3132 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-20 17:54:21
July 20 2011 17:47 GMT
#27903
On July 21 2011 02:22 flodeskum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 01:35 Dragar wrote:
True, but again. This is due to blink, not the damage output.


Absolutely agreed. Blink is an extremely powerful ability in large engagements, and often surprisingly neglected. MC is one of the few I've seen that really exploits the ability to its max.

I think everyone would agree stalkers are not powerful because of their damage. It's also true that reducing their damage versus non-armoured would reduce their power.

It certainly would. But the thing is mass blink stalkers are only good in pvz and even there they still need large numbers to become really scary. So why look at the unit and not the matchup?

But then there's the thing of why hydras don't _really_ deal with stalkers. They do beat them hands down in a straight fight and with lings it really isn't close. But because hydras lack a speed upgrade they can't really get that fight and being so slow they don't really work offensively either. Could the hydra not be the real problem here?

Then there's also the need to consider how 8 damage stalkers would affect a protoss' ability to deal with early marine-based pushes. Or their ability to deny scouting workers, not to mention their already shitty harass capabilities. A change to a core unit like the stalker has a large effect on all protoss matchups.

Also keep in mind that just because a build seems really strong now, that doesn't mean that balance changes are needed. How many top level pvz's have you seen recently featuring the colossus/voidray build?


Honestly, vd/collosus still seems really dangerous as long as you don't clump everything up on one hotkey. There might be answers for it out there, but it still sounds pretty damn good on paper, fungal buff or no. Nevertheless, I would like to see someone boss it out just so we can confirm or deny reasons why it went underground.

As for blink stalkers: of course it's not necessary to constantly nerf shit. It's the incorrect approach to balancing the game. A lot of people would much prefer a re-working of the hydra: it's been mentioned dozens of times by top players of moving around units in the tech tree a little and making the hydra a faster, cheaper, and less polarized unit (not demolishing gateway-only builds or fragile air units, not being completely cost-ineffective offensively or against colossus).

The problem is blizzard doesn't seem to be willing to make a change of this size, less they decide to admit folly in Heart of the Swarm, so it's futile to keep asking for rational zerg fixes. More likely in their territory is a soft change to protoss; perhaps increasing blink cool down, or doing the 8+6 instead of 10+4 thing for a while would illuminate some things—even if what it illuminates is that blink stalkers aren't actually a huge issue in the match-up.
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
July 20 2011 18:14 GMT
#27904
For the German SC2 scene, there is this "Szenecast" which inception was probably inspired by State of the Game. It's a cast organized by players of the German scene (like HasuObs, Socke, Darkforce) themselves. Lately, I have been enjoying it more than SotG (which is still very appreciated) and I think SotG could learn a bit from its little German offspring.

I think a lot of its charm stems from the fact that the players just talk to each other and especially that they talk about their own games and tournament experiences. They make a cognitive walk through their games, explain why they did this and that, what they thought and what they should have done better. Sometimes, the opponent is also in the cast and gives his perspective of the game. In my opionion, this is how discussions about games should be like instead of, what many may think, superficial balance discussions that lead to nowhere. There is no cap of how many players are in the cast and players just talk about topics they have anything to say about, rather than having some kind of forced round robin with "I didn't see the games".

They still talk about GSL and the finals of NASL/MLG/IEM, but as players that notice the little details they sound more enthusiastic talking about the games and Korean play overall than their equivalents in SotG. At the same time, the players appear to be more frank about issues that occur to them like when they can hear the casters in events, when the schedules are messed up and when prize money is not paid out. In SotG, it seems that the participants are too involved to give an honest opionion about such issues.

So my suggestion is to invite players that have actually played in tournaments and leagues that made a deep run (and speak English) and let them talk about their games. I feel that in the moment, guests are selected just by "who is there and who is popular". This would also make things like the NASL regular season (though I don't know how many English speaking players are left that want to be in SotG) and post-coverage of events more interesting . Of course I still like to have pillars of the scene that provide insights from behind the scene but having that every week becomes boring after a while.
LagT_T
Profile Joined March 2010
Argentina535 Posts
July 20 2011 18:19 GMT
#27905
On July 21 2011 03:14 SinCitta wrote:
For the German SC2 scene, there is this "Szenecast" which inception was probably inspired by State of the Game. It's a cast organized by players of the German scene (like HasuObs, Socke, Darkforce) themselves. Lately, I have been enjoying it more than SotG (which is still very appreciated) and I think SotG could learn a bit from its little German offspring.

I think a lot of its charm stems from the fact that the players just talk to each other and especially that they talk about their own games and tournament experiences. They make a cognitive walk through their games, explain why they did this and that, what they thought and what they should have done better. Sometimes, the opponent is also in the cast and gives his perspective of the game. In my opionion, this is how discussions about games should be like instead of, what many may think, superficial balance discussions that lead to nowhere. There is no cap of how many players are in the cast and players just talk about topics they have anything to say about, rather than having some kind of forced round robin with "I didn't see the games".

They still talk about GSL and the finals of NASL/MLG/IEM, but as players that notice the little details they sound more enthusiastic talking about the games and Korean play overall than their equivalents in SotG. At the same time, the players appear to be more frank about issues that occur to them like when they can hear the casters in events, when the schedules are messed up and when prize money is not paid out. In SotG, it seems that the participants are too involved to give an honest opionion about such issues.

So my suggestion is to invite players that have actually played in tournaments and leagues that made a deep run (and speak English) and let them talk about their games. I feel that in the moment, guests are selected just by "who is there and who is popular". This would also make things like the NASL regular season (though I don't know how many English speaking players are left that want to be in SotG) and post-coverage of events more interesting . Of course I still like to have pillars of the scene that provide insights from behind the scene but having that every week becomes boring after a while.


I'd love to speak German now T_T
"The tactics... no. Amateurs discuss tactics, professional soldiers study logistics." - Tom Clancy, Red Storm Rising
darksage78
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada243 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-20 18:55:01
July 20 2011 18:49 GMT
#27906
On July 21 2011 03:14 SinCitta wrote:
I think a lot of its charm stems from the fact that the players just talk to each other and especially that they talk about their own games and tournament experiences. They make a cognitive walk through their games, explain why they did this and that, what they thought and what they should have done better.

THIS is what I feel has been lacking since SoTG's return. It's become Q&A Roundtable hour whereas it used to be just a conversation amongst the pillars - which is why I tuned in cause of the relaxed atmosphere and the way they were doing things. JP now goes from one host to the next, when he used to present the topic and the hosts would just discuss it as a normal conversation with each other. Looks like there needs to be a little less micro management, just macro to keep the convo from going too far off on a tangent.
@KakitDesign on Twitter | Graphic Artist for : z33k.com / Collegiate Starleague / FXOpen
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
July 20 2011 18:53 GMT
#27907
The last episode was, in my opinion, one of the very worst I have listened to. The lack of humor from people like incontrol/day9, no actual guest like Naniwa and redundant "roles" by JP and Leah just made this episode very, very boring. I don't feel like Leah is qualified to be on the show as a permanent pillar. SotG doesn't need another person to ask questions, we have JP for that. What SotG does need are knowledgeable people that give game insight not many others have. Leah doesn't bring this. I couldn't finish the episode out of boredom.

As someone else said before, this show has become the "state of e-sports" and no longer the "state of the game." For a few weeks now the focus has almost solely been on recent events and large tournaments. I think it is fine to talk about GSL and other every week but it doesn't need to be the focus of every show. I'd rather listen to Tyler talk about how his PvT is developing and where he thinks the future is on that matchup.

Lastly, if a controversial subject like sixjax Major is brought up, why can't everyone show the opinions on this? Instead all we got was a single answer from Artosis and they moved on to another topic. What does Tyler think of people who smurf in tournaments? I'd be more interested in the show if everyone wasn't so PC about things. I always am most interested when balance discussions are brought up because everyone has a differing view on the subject. Listening to Day9 argue with Idra doesn't get old.

Anyway, many of these issues are quite minor, but after the great first week since the hiatus I expected a more return to what originally made SotG great. With competing shows going on now, if the quality of SotG continues to suffer, my time will be spent listening to those instead.
Sgtmt
Profile Joined May 2011
United States72 Posts
July 20 2011 19:14 GMT
#27908
I love this show no matter whos on, what they talk about, or if its super exciting or just talking. I'd watch this show if it was JP doing hand puppets on what the State of the Game is. On its worst day its still better than 90% of the stuff out there.
formthehead
Profile Joined June 2010
United States81 Posts
July 20 2011 19:44 GMT
#27909
the state of the game thread, where you have to call this week's episode the worst episode ever... or someone else will
Chillax
Profile Joined March 2011
England585 Posts
July 20 2011 19:46 GMT
#27910
Vods should be going up on bliptv untill MLG sorts their site out tbh. Never had this sort of delay back in the old days :/
Astro-Penguin
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
554 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-20 19:52:39
July 20 2011 19:52 GMT
#27911
On July 21 2011 03:53 setzer wrote:
The last episode was, in my opinion, one of the very worst I have listened to. The lack of humor from people like incontrol/day9, no actual guest like Naniwa and redundant "roles" by JP and Leah just made this episode very, very boring. I don't feel like Leah is qualified to be on the show as a permanent pillar. SotG doesn't need another person to ask questions, we have JP for that. What SotG does need are knowledgeable people that give game insight not many others have. Leah doesn't bring this. I couldn't finish the episode out of boredom.

As someone else said before, this show has become the "state of e-sports" and no longer the "state of the game." For a few weeks now the focus has almost solely been on recent events and large tournaments. I think it is fine to talk about GSL and other every week but it doesn't need to be the focus of every show. I'd rather listen to Tyler talk about how his PvT is developing and where he thinks the future is on that matchup.

Lastly, if a controversial subject like sixjax Major is brought up, why can't everyone show the opinions on this? Instead all we got was a single answer from Artosis and they moved on to another topic. What does Tyler think of people who smurf in tournaments? I'd be more interested in the show if everyone wasn't so PC about things. I always am most interested when balance discussions are brought up because everyone has a differing view on the subject. Listening to Day9 argue with Idra doesn't get old.

Anyway, many of these issues are quite minor, but after the great first week since the hiatus I expected a more return to what originally made SotG great. With competing shows going on now, if the quality of SotG continues to suffer, my time will be spent listening to those instead.


I agree and stuff like this is contributing to the inevitable fall of E-Sports. If you compare yesterdays show to a shows back in December it is quiet obvious that they lost their passion years ago.
storm44
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1293 Posts
July 20 2011 19:56 GMT
#27912
I wouldn't say that they lost their passion, but the show has went into a different direction where its more like an interview rather than a couple of guys bullshitting around and talking about starcraft. Like sezter said after an hour I just couldn't take it anymore and turn off sotg because it just got boring. I really hope they go back to their old format they had couple months ago
ronpaul012
Profile Joined March 2011
United States769 Posts
July 20 2011 19:58 GMT
#27913
On July 21 2011 03:53 setzer wrote:
The last episode was, in my opinion, one of the very worst I have listened to. The lack of humor from people like incontrol/day9, no actual guest like Naniwa and redundant "roles" by JP and Leah just made this episode very, very boring. I don't feel like Leah is qualified to be on the show as a permanent pillar. SotG doesn't need another person to ask questions, we have JP for that. What SotG does need are knowledgeable people that give game insight not many others have. Leah doesn't bring this. I couldn't finish the episode out of boredom.

As someone else said before, this show has become the "state of e-sports" and no longer the "state of the game." For a few weeks now the focus has almost solely been on recent events and large tournaments. I think it is fine to talk about GSL and other every week but it doesn't need to be the focus of every show. I'd rather listen to Tyler talk about how his PvT is developing and where he thinks the future is on that matchup.

Lastly, if a controversial subject like sixjax Major is brought up, why can't everyone show the opinions on this? Instead all we got was a single answer from Artosis and they moved on to another topic. What does Tyler think of people who smurf in tournaments? I'd be more interested in the show if everyone wasn't so PC about things. I always am most interested when balance discussions are brought up because everyone has a differing view on the subject. Listening to Day9 argue with Idra doesn't get old.

Anyway, many of these issues are quite minor, but after the great first week since the hiatus I expected a more return to what originally made SotG great. With competing shows going on now, if the quality of SotG continues to suffer, my time will be spent listening to those instead.


Okay, I'll take your whining on 1 paragraph at a time.

1st paragraph: Lack of humor is a personal preference. Last night show had some good irony pointed out, but no there wasn't any duh huh huh thats funny moments. And leah is not a permanent pillar, obviously we don't know for sure, but I have to imagine that because day9 was sick they invited her on. And no she doesn't know everything about the game, but she does follow the scene quiet well.

2nd paragraph: Last nights show had more talk of the game more than any episode in a long time. They talked about the 4gate balance and the potential in pvp. They also talked about tvt and how mech is developing. Artosis also talked about the mass stalker pvz that many are using. Doesn't get much more state of the game than that. And when they did talk about esports it was a really solid talk about it.

3rd paragraph: The whole major thing was pretty basic. He acted immature and the entire situation was pointless. If tyler or somebody else had something to add, they would have. And as far as idra and day9 arguing about things, I have to disagree. Idra just says imba, and day9 says nobody is good enough to fully understand the game and only then will we see imba situations. Its just their cycle.

As far as you thinking the shows not entertaining enough, you have to remember that day9 was gone, and artosis is still developing some chemistry. Sorry that there weren't any pointless jokes and a bunch of yelling at each other drama and calling things imba, obviously thats a disappointing show...
I'm a gooner.
qqK
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany282 Posts
July 20 2011 20:00 GMT
#27914
On July 21 2011 04:14 Sgtmt wrote:
I love this show no matter whos on, what they talk about, or if its super exciting or just talking. I'd watch this show if it was JP doing hand puppets on what the State of the Game is. On its worst day its still better than 90% of the stuff out there.



This is amazing. Can we please have a hand puppet podcast?
Night[6]
Profile Joined July 2011
2 Posts
July 20 2011 20:00 GMT
#27915
On July 21 2011 03:53 setzer wrote:
The last episode was, in my opinion, one of the very worst I have listened to. The lack of humor from people like incontrol/day9, no actual guest like Naniwa and redundant "roles" by JP and Leah just made this episode very, very boring. I don't feel like Leah is qualified to be on the show as a permanent pillar. SotG doesn't need another person to ask questions, we have JP for that. What SotG does need are knowledgeable people that give game insight not many others have. Leah doesn't bring this. I couldn't finish the episode out of boredom.

As someone else said before, this show has become the "state of e-sports" and no longer the "state of the game." For a few weeks now the focus has almost solely been on recent events and large tournaments. I think it is fine to talk about GSL and other every week but it doesn't need to be the focus of every show. I'd rather listen to Tyler talk about how his PvT is developing and where he thinks the future is on that matchup.

Lastly, if a controversial subject like sixjax Major is brought up, why can't everyone show the opinions on this? Instead all we got was a single answer from Artosis and they moved on to another topic. What does Tyler think of people who smurf in tournaments? I'd be more interested in the show if everyone wasn't so PC about things. I always am most interested when balance discussions are brought up because everyone has a differing view on the subject. Listening to Day9 argue with Idra doesn't get old.

Anyway, many of these issues are quite minor, but after the great first week since the hiatus I expected a more return to what originally made SotG great. With competing shows going on now, if the quality of SotG continues to suffer, my time will be spent listening to those instead.

I agree with you that the things you list make for good topics. I too would enjoy seeing some discussion around the smurfing incident, though I am not sure how much more could be said. Another point I think could have offered more discussion was when Artosis offered the removal of the Stalker's +damage as a good potential balance change. Personally I am not sure I agree with that, and if anything I think the Stalker is fine but perhaps Zerg lack a solid counter in that their Hydralisks could be a bit stronger.

Discussion about balance, about current and developing strategies, current and developing tactics (using the differentiation between "strategy" and "tactic" as employed by Day9), as well as all that in relation to recent and upcoming tournaments and the specific playstyles of specific progamers should in my opinion be a large part of what State of the Game is about.

However, in addition to that I think it is great that the show discusses topics which affect the players and spectators of the game but are not strictly about the game. That is why I actually really enjoyed this last episode. It touched on Tyler's rather lacking practice, and performance as a result. There was also some strategy discussion. I really enjoy it when Tyler shares how he thinks about the game, but I hope they find more progamers to be guests in upcoming shows.

What I didn't like too much was the 'top 5' question format asked of every guest. It's better to simply pose a question and have an open discussion from that, if possible.
kckkryptonite
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1126 Posts
July 20 2011 20:03 GMT
#27916
Kind of saw this coming, before people would complain about drama/arguments/unprofessionalism all the time, but I've said it's what made the show interesting.
RIP avilo, qxc keyboard 2013, RIP Nathanis keyboard 2014
cactuschewer
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom152 Posts
July 20 2011 20:07 GMT
#27917
Drunk cast necessary with incontrol as guest for redemption
Fanta_Rules
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden669 Posts
July 20 2011 20:13 GMT
#27918
Stop complaining you idiots. This show is much better than Inside the Game or any other shit out there, so shut your mouth and be happy that they're still doing it.JP kicks Wheats ass as a host.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
July 20 2011 20:20 GMT
#27919
On July 21 2011 04:58 ronpaul012 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 03:53 setzer wrote:
The last episode was, in my opinion, one of the very worst I have listened to. The lack of humor from people like incontrol/day9, no actual guest like Naniwa and redundant "roles" by JP and Leah just made this episode very, very boring. I don't feel like Leah is qualified to be on the show as a permanent pillar. SotG doesn't need another person to ask questions, we have JP for that. What SotG does need are knowledgeable people that give game insight not many others have. Leah doesn't bring this. I couldn't finish the episode out of boredom.

As someone else said before, this show has become the "state of e-sports" and no longer the "state of the game." For a few weeks now the focus has almost solely been on recent events and large tournaments. I think it is fine to talk about GSL and other every week but it doesn't need to be the focus of every show. I'd rather listen to Tyler talk about how his PvT is developing and where he thinks the future is on that matchup.

Lastly, if a controversial subject like sixjax Major is brought up, why can't everyone show the opinions on this? Instead all we got was a single answer from Artosis and they moved on to another topic. What does Tyler think of people who smurf in tournaments? I'd be more interested in the show if everyone wasn't so PC about things. I always am most interested when balance discussions are brought up because everyone has a differing view on the subject. Listening to Day9 argue with Idra doesn't get old.

Anyway, many of these issues are quite minor, but after the great first week since the hiatus I expected a more return to what originally made SotG great. With competing shows going on now, if the quality of SotG continues to suffer, my time will be spent listening to those instead.


Okay, I'll take your whining on 1 paragraph at a time.

1st paragraph: Lack of humor is a personal preference. Last night show had some good irony pointed out, but no there wasn't any duh huh huh thats funny moments. And leah is not a permanent pillar, obviously we don't know for sure, but I have to imagine that because day9 was sick they invited her on. And no she doesn't know everything about the game, but she does follow the scene quiet well.

2nd paragraph: Last nights show had more talk of the game more than any episode in a long time. They talked about the 4gate balance and the potential in pvp. They also talked about tvt and how mech is developing. Artosis also talked about the mass stalker pvz that many are using. Doesn't get much more state of the game than that. And when they did talk about esports it was a really solid talk about it.

3rd paragraph: The whole major thing was pretty basic. He acted immature and the entire situation was pointless. If tyler or somebody else had something to add, they would have. And as far as idra and day9 arguing about things, I have to disagree. Idra just says imba, and day9 says nobody is good enough to fully understand the game and only then will we see imba situations. Its just their cycle.

As far as you thinking the shows not entertaining enough, you have to remember that day9 was gone, and artosis is still developing some chemistry. Sorry that there weren't any pointless jokes and a bunch of yelling at each other drama and calling things imba, obviously thats a disappointing show...


Too bad you failed to stay objective already at the fifth word.

Btw. that German Szenentalk thing, are there vods? I'd love to watch it!
Pyre
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1940 Posts
July 20 2011 20:22 GMT
#27920
The show could use a heel or troll like charecter. Someone that could fire up artosis or call tyler out when he gives a vague awnser. As others said the show was better when it felt free flowing, the format now is very strict. I'm not sure how imformed Leah is, every awnser she gave was IEM or TSL3. This makes me believe this is the only 2 turnoments she has kept up with. I hope she not on the show only because she is a women.

I also liked when the show was longer, old shows were about three hours. Lately they have been 90 minutes. I think Artosis was a great addition to the show. I'm not a hater, I listen every week.
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