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On June 02 2011 10:22 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 09:15 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:36 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 02 2011 08:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:01 aquanda wrote:
It's really quite interesting in the most pathetic way possible how seriously you people take everything. I generally don't like quoting things just for the sake of quoting them, but I would put this in the fucking banner of the website if I had the power. everyone needs to get this message. NAH MAN ESPORTS ESPORTS ESPORTS U GOTTA THINK ABOUT ESPORTS CUZ UR HURTING THEM BM HURTS ESPORTS OFFENSIVE WORDS HURT ESPORTS CENSORSHIP HURTS ESPORTS HOT_BID'S TROLLING HURTS ESPORTS TL NAZIDOM HURTS ESPORTS TL'S BAD POSTERS HURT ESPORTS INCONTROL HURTS ESPORTS MLG HURTS ESPORTS SCANTILY CLAD GAMER GIRLS HURT ESPORTS HATE AGAINST GAMER GIRLS HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT 2 HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT BROODWAR HURTS ESPORTS BLIZZARD IS HURTING ESPORTS CAPS LOCK IS HURTING ESPORTS and the list could go on for infinity and then some. Ridiculous additions to things are the usual excuse for not having to do anything. "Oh I cant save the world, so I just continue destroying my own little bit of it." Just get some common sense and respect your societies values instead of trying to be a smartass kid and ignore others. After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up.
Not only rebels, murderers with intent to kill. Using curses can after all make some random las commit suicide, right? That's what you said anyway.
I think that's as bullshit as this post. When you stop believing the whole world is one big society you might realize your ideals aren't the bloody be all end all.
"After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up".
Do you have any idea how ridiculous that notion is? Who the fuck are you to judge maturity of individuals based solely on their vocabulary?
I get people arguing in favor of Incontrol's arguments. Unlike Incontrol, however, some aren't rational and believe anyone not sharing their opinion is an immature little prick. And that's not cool, not cool at all.
Let me tell you a secret.
"Curb Your Enthusiasm" isn't destroying the world. Destiny is not destroying the world. "South Park" isn't destroying the world. Fucking incredible, is it not?
Maybe it's tarnishing your vision of an utopia with your chosen vocabulary, but the world goes on just fine with a "fuck" there and a "nigger" here.
No, I don't want to hear "nigger" in the NASL, or anywhere else for that matter. But I can say for fucking certain that I prefer hearing "nigger" every now and then to reading the garbage from people suffering from severe superiority complexes.
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On June 02 2011 09:48 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 03:06 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 02:59 The KY wrote:On June 02 2011 01:24 -_- wrote:On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote:
I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter. Calm down. I understand where you're coming from, but you don't know about my competitive background. Just because I'm not a progamer doesn't mean I haven't been succesful in my life. And just because you angry, doesn't mean you can proclaim that my perspective is irrelevant. Let's use a sports analogy. If Lebron James loses in the finals, do you think he'll be happy with his 2nd place finish? Do you think Derrick Rose is happy with his 3rd/4th place finish? And if they were, it would certainly speak to how good they think they are (not the best), and what their goals were (not to be a champion). Allow me to use another analogy. My football team is Tottenham Hotspur in the Premier League. In the 2009/2010 season they finished fourth. And I was fucking ECSTATIC. Fourth in what is probably the most prestigious league in the world? Above teams like Man City and Liverpool, coming within a hairs breadth of Arsenal? BEATING Arsenal and Chelsea along the way? Fourth was a fucking dream. Is that because Spurs are a lesser team than Chelsea, who would be unhappy with 4th? Yeah sure. Does that make the achievement any lesser for Tottenham? Er, no. It's still an amazing result for any team except for maybe 3. Being a lesser team than Chelsea and Man United is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, if you're ahead of everyone else. The analogy is that for, say, IdrA, 4th is a disappointment. For iNcontroL it's astoundingly good. Is it because he's a lesser player than IdrA. Yep. Don't think he'd disagree with that (at least not right now, maybe after his wins his MLG  ). Is being proud of 4th at MLG mean that he is a SECOND RATE player? Fuck no. After that win did your team then shit all over other teams that you didn't beat but placed lower in ranking, and then hide behind that ONE 4th place win every time someone critisized your play? Wtf, who was Inc shitting on? Someone said EG were bad except for IdrA and he used facts and results to demonstrate that EG are objectively better than FXO. It fucking baffles me that you think he was shitting on anyone. As for using his result as some kind of shield to deflect criticism, this thread is the only time I've ever seen him bring it up. And above and beyond that it was the most recent MLG. When talking about MLG results, why not reference the previous fucking event?
Go read the posts by SiguR and you may get a better understanding about the so called facts he used.
Here I'll help.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 02 2011 03:56 SiguR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 01:11 iNcontroL wrote:
FXO has literally 0 team accomplishments except losing to EG in ESEA and taking I think 4th.
Where the HELL do people get it in their mind that they are a better team? It absolutely cannot be through results. Arbitrary considerations with players? Qxc hasn't been his former self since MLG of last year when he still placed lower than several EG players. Moonan? No accomplishments. Slog? Filthy? Tgun or w/e... all lower level than Machine, Strifecro and Lz. Sheth is great. But still has fewer / less accomplishments than I do in big tourneys (MLG). Then we compare super-stars.. IdrA vs Moonglade. Need I say more? And all this without mentioning Axslav who won MVP for crota invitational going undefeated against players like Jinro and the other top players from top teams.
Emphasis on the bolded part... I don't care for the argument that's taking place here on which team is better, but blatant falsehoods tickle my fancy. Moonan has no accomplishments but you do? At MLG Dallas, you were seeded into pool play. You took fourth place by: In group play: beating TLO, Mihai, and slush Losing to painuser In the championship bracket: You beat TLO in an extended series You lost to Select 0-2 You lost to Kiwikaki 0-2 You won two best of threes and one best of five. You lost three best of threes. That got you fourth place.At MLG Dallas, Moonan took 8th. He started in the open bracket. Got knocked into the losers bracket by huk and did not make group play, but proceeded to the championship bracket by beating Naama. In the championship bracket he beat spades, painuser, mihai, machine, slush, and eventually lost to socke.
Moonan won 11 best of threes, and lost two best of threes. That got him 8th place. If you'll notice, three of the players he beat were the ones that were in your pool (essentially the same players you beat to secure your fourth place spot, minus TLO).In summary: Incontrol : Wins: 2 bo3's, 1 bo5. Losses: 3 bo3's 4th place Moonan: Wins: 11 bo3's Losses: 2 bo3's 8th place The catch is that Moonan played almost literally the same players that you did, plus naama, spades, machine, and a number of lesser known players. Saying Moonan has zero accomplishments and you have more accomplishments than him or sheth seems kind of moronic. You benefited from a very skewed seeding system. That is all fine and good in itself. I'm happy for your success. But don't go waving your dick around saying you have more accomplishments than other people who arguably performed just as well if not better than you. I want to be clear that i'm not saying you didn't do well. I'm saying that arguably Moonan did better and you're sitting on your 4th place "accomplishment" and saying Moonan has zero accomplishments. It seems silly.
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I really loved this show and in my opinion it was a great opportunity for us players to get in the heads of some key-figures in the Starcraft 2 - Scene and understand their oppinions on many different topics.
Yesterday was no different. There where some really good discussions about many important topics (GSL/GSTL, (bad) language in casts, etc.).
BUT on one topic I could only shake my head and sigh about how you approached it: female gamers.
It could have been a really interesting discussion about the (sadly) huge minority in the Starcraft 2 - Scene and to hear the thoughts about how to make the Scene more attractive for female gamers BY female gamers. Instead, you talked - what - 5 minutes(?) about it. No one had to say anything about this serious topic.
Sure, you asked Anna and that other girl from the G4 about the female gaming-scene.
No offense, but: wtf, seriously?? I really, really appreciate their support(!) for the gaming-community but don't you think it would've been a better discussion if you had asked a woman who really IS a gamer? A gamer(!) by heart and not just a supporter. Instead, both of them didn't really know what to say about the female gaming-scene and how to improve ANYTHING at all. Sure, you talked a bit on how bad mannered some of the viewers are and how the viewers only judge them by their looks. But that is something, what EVERY woman/girl (cashier, bartender, construction worker, secretary, business woman, etc.) could have told you.
I wanted to listen to a serious discussion what female gamers had to throw in this topic but instead there was only awkward silence and a fast change of topics. :sadpanda:
Well, I at least hope, you'll be better prepared and invite some real female gaming-nerds next time you want to discuss this topic in your show.
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On June 02 2011 09:12 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 08:53 Cajun2k1 wrote:
I don't understand InControl's argument that Destiny is a 'face' of the SC2-community, and thus should refrain using words like nigger and rape, because he got interviewed by Forbes one time.
In the Weapon of Choice discussion between them, DJWheat called InControl out on his use of the 'native-american' accent, and the KellyMilkies-incident. But InControl didn't even go there, because he knows he's not the right person to call out Destiny for the language he uses. Instead he just dismisses it as a non-valid argument, without even giving proper arguments for it. Now in SoTG, he's like if we want ESports to grow we need to ban 'dirty' words. If that's the road ESports is gonna take if it wants to grow, draining the soul out of the game, then we should ask our selves, do we really want that? I'd rather have a 'small' community where 'everything' goes, then the major corporation-esque, soulless community that we're supposedly heading to.
Every sport needs their characters, good or bad. InControl dismisses Destiny's viewers that they only watch Destiny because of his character, doesn't that apply to the majority of the SC2-community? Whenever IdrA gets into some meaningless 'fight' with another player, that adds to the whole excitement for the game, as we've seen with Cruncher and Minigun, recently. So if you're gonna call out Destiny for using the words rape and nigger, and you let your teammate tell another player to go kill himself, and don't call him out on that, you sir, are using double standards and are a hypocrite. I agree, if we took the words nigger and rape out of Starcraft, it would drain the soul out of e-sports.
This is actually quite hilarious... ok I can agree that rape MIGHT be okay but the word ni**er? really? I mean that's RACISM for god sake, how can you possibly think that word should be allowed/used in this community?
I'd like you guys to think of yourselves as a coloured person for a sec, how fun would it be to hear someone say "oh fucking ni**er" on their stream in front of 3k people? I don't think you'd like it at all, saying the word fuck isn't so harsh because it's not really personal, saying rape isn't really neither in this case, however it IS personal to call someone a ni**er as that may be their ethnicity.
I don't care much for it but I know alot of people that would just look weirdly at that and think "what the hell did he just say?"
If you think the soul of this community consists of the word rape and ni**er then I pity you.
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On June 02 2011 10:40 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 09:12 Doodsmack wrote:On June 02 2011 08:53 Cajun2k1 wrote:
I don't understand InControl's argument that Destiny is a 'face' of the SC2-community, and thus should refrain using words like nigger and rape, because he got interviewed by Forbes one time.
In the Weapon of Choice discussion between them, DJWheat called InControl out on his use of the 'native-american' accent, and the KellyMilkies-incident. But InControl didn't even go there, because he knows he's not the right person to call out Destiny for the language he uses. Instead he just dismisses it as a non-valid argument, without even giving proper arguments for it. Now in SoTG, he's like if we want ESports to grow we need to ban 'dirty' words. If that's the road ESports is gonna take if it wants to grow, draining the soul out of the game, then we should ask our selves, do we really want that? I'd rather have a 'small' community where 'everything' goes, then the major corporation-esque, soulless community that we're supposedly heading to.
Every sport needs their characters, good or bad. InControl dismisses Destiny's viewers that they only watch Destiny because of his character, doesn't that apply to the majority of the SC2-community? Whenever IdrA gets into some meaningless 'fight' with another player, that adds to the whole excitement for the game, as we've seen with Cruncher and Minigun, recently. So if you're gonna call out Destiny for using the words rape and nigger, and you let your teammate tell another player to go kill himself, and don't call him out on that, you sir, are using double standards and are a hypocrite. I agree, if we took the words nigger and rape out of Starcraft, it would drain the soul out of e-sports. This is actually quite hilarious... ok I can agree that rape MIGHT be okay but the word ni**er? really? I mean that's RACISM for god sake, how can you possibly think that word should be allowed/used in this community? I'd like you guys to think of yourselves as a coloured person for a sec, how fun would it be to hear someone say "oh fucking ni**er" on their stream in front of 3k people? I don't think you'd like it at all, saying the word fuck isn't so harsh because it's not really personal, saying rape isn't really neither in this case, however it IS personal to call someone a ni**er as that may be their ethnicity. I don't care much for it but I know alot of people that would just look weirdly at that and think "what the hell did he just say?" If you think the soul of this community consists of the word rape and ni**er then I pity you.
It's only racism if the context allows it, do you think when I'm jovially calling a friend 'my nigger', it's not racism. Context is everything. Btw, the person you're quoting is being sarcastic.
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On June 02 2011 10:32 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 10:22 Rabiator wrote:On June 02 2011 09:15 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:36 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 02 2011 08:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:01 aquanda wrote:
It's really quite interesting in the most pathetic way possible how seriously you people take everything. I generally don't like quoting things just for the sake of quoting them, but I would put this in the fucking banner of the website if I had the power. everyone needs to get this message. NAH MAN ESPORTS ESPORTS ESPORTS U GOTTA THINK ABOUT ESPORTS CUZ UR HURTING THEM BM HURTS ESPORTS OFFENSIVE WORDS HURT ESPORTS CENSORSHIP HURTS ESPORTS HOT_BID'S TROLLING HURTS ESPORTS TL NAZIDOM HURTS ESPORTS TL'S BAD POSTERS HURT ESPORTS INCONTROL HURTS ESPORTS MLG HURTS ESPORTS SCANTILY CLAD GAMER GIRLS HURT ESPORTS HATE AGAINST GAMER GIRLS HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT 2 HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT BROODWAR HURTS ESPORTS BLIZZARD IS HURTING ESPORTS CAPS LOCK IS HURTING ESPORTS and the list could go on for infinity and then some. Ridiculous additions to things are the usual excuse for not having to do anything. "Oh I cant save the world, so I just continue destroying my own little bit of it." Just get some common sense and respect your societies values instead of trying to be a smartass kid and ignore others. After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up. Not only rebels, murderers with intent to kill. Using curses can after all make some random las commit suicide, right? That's what you said anyway. I think that's as bullshit as this post. When you stop believing the whole world is one big society you might realize your ideals aren't the bloody be all end all. "After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up". Do you have any idea how ridiculous that notion is? Who the fuck are you to judge maturity of individuals based solely on their vocabulary? I get people arguing in favor of Incontrol's arguments. Unlike Incontrol, however, some aren't rational and believe anyone not sharing their opinion is an immature little prick. And that's not cool, not cool at all. Let me tell you a secret. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" isn't destroying the world. Destiny is not destroying the world. "South Park" isn't destroying the world. Fucking incredible, is it not? Maybe it's tarnishing your vision of an utopia with your chosen vocabulary, but the world goes on just fine with a "fuck" there and a "nigger" here. No, I don't want to hear "nigger" in the NASL, or anywhere else for that matter. But I can say for fucking certain that I prefer hearing "nigger" every now and then to reading the garbage from people suffering from severe superiority complexes.
How are people in 2011 trying to justify the use of the N word in any context?
Am I to understand that as a white Swedish person, you are giving your blessing for the use of that word as a day to day insult? Maybe the word doesn't offend you, but can you understand that you are not the group / minority that it is supposed to insult?
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On June 02 2011 11:23 DR.Ham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 10:32 vyyye wrote:On June 02 2011 10:22 Rabiator wrote:On June 02 2011 09:15 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:36 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 02 2011 08:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:01 aquanda wrote:
It's really quite interesting in the most pathetic way possible how seriously you people take everything. I generally don't like quoting things just for the sake of quoting them, but I would put this in the fucking banner of the website if I had the power. everyone needs to get this message. NAH MAN ESPORTS ESPORTS ESPORTS U GOTTA THINK ABOUT ESPORTS CUZ UR HURTING THEM BM HURTS ESPORTS OFFENSIVE WORDS HURT ESPORTS CENSORSHIP HURTS ESPORTS HOT_BID'S TROLLING HURTS ESPORTS TL NAZIDOM HURTS ESPORTS TL'S BAD POSTERS HURT ESPORTS INCONTROL HURTS ESPORTS MLG HURTS ESPORTS SCANTILY CLAD GAMER GIRLS HURT ESPORTS HATE AGAINST GAMER GIRLS HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT 2 HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT BROODWAR HURTS ESPORTS BLIZZARD IS HURTING ESPORTS CAPS LOCK IS HURTING ESPORTS and the list could go on for infinity and then some. Ridiculous additions to things are the usual excuse for not having to do anything. "Oh I cant save the world, so I just continue destroying my own little bit of it." Just get some common sense and respect your societies values instead of trying to be a smartass kid and ignore others. After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up. Not only rebels, murderers with intent to kill. Using curses can after all make some random las commit suicide, right? That's what you said anyway. I think that's as bullshit as this post. When you stop believing the whole world is one big society you might realize your ideals aren't the bloody be all end all. "After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up". Do you have any idea how ridiculous that notion is? Who the fuck are you to judge maturity of individuals based solely on their vocabulary? I get people arguing in favor of Incontrol's arguments. Unlike Incontrol, however, some aren't rational and believe anyone not sharing their opinion is an immature little prick. And that's not cool, not cool at all. Let me tell you a secret. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" isn't destroying the world. Destiny is not destroying the world. "South Park" isn't destroying the world. Fucking incredible, is it not? Maybe it's tarnishing your vision of an utopia with your chosen vocabulary, but the world goes on just fine with a "fuck" there and a "nigger" here. No, I don't want to hear "nigger" in the NASL, or anywhere else for that matter. But I can say for fucking certain that I prefer hearing "nigger" every now and then to reading the garbage from people suffering from severe superiority complexes. How are people in 2011 trying to justify the use of the N word in any context? Am I to understand that as a white Swedish person, you are giving your blessing for the use of that word as a day to day insult? Maybe the word doesn't offend you, but can you understand that you are not the group / minority that it is supposed to insult?
It's because most Swedish men are emotionless, robotic automatons.
Just putting that out there.
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Words over the internet dirrected nowhere towards you are serious buisiness.
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On June 02 2011 10:13 The KY wrote:
ESPORTS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS YO.
Ok I just read through the recentposts in this thread and yeah it's pretty fucking awful. Inc defends his team when someone claims FXO are better and suddenly you've got 10-20 people jumping down his throat, trying to delegitimise his results, basically insulting him as a player which is his livelihood, then when he reacts angrily he gets a smug little 'hey calm down I was only calling you fucking terrible, you're the one who was shitting on other players, why are you playing the victim.'
For some unknown reason there's a fucking legion of arseholes who feel the need to put iNcontroL under far more scrutiny than is necessary, then take any opportunity to shit on him.
Every MLG last year; Inc is fucking awful!
MLG Dallas; Inc got an easy bracket!
MLG groups announced; Inc gets another easy group what a joke! (this one was particularly weird...so many people were saying it. Where's the people saying 'TLO gets the easiest group again guess he gets an easy road to 5th again!'. Why single out Inc from the 20 people in the groups?)
Inc streaming; He just lost a bunch of games, guess he's fucking shitty!
And now Inc defends his team and himself and the vultures fucking descend again. No wonder he got pissed and left the thread and the show on such a sour note.
I call bullshit on the iNcontroL hate. Just fucking stop.
I agree that it must stop, the baseless hate that became en vogue since clash of the titans. Bandwagoners and crusaders, fuck them.
However, you start off your post with the false assumption that Incontrol is merely defending himself. Not going to Korea is ultimatively every player's personal choice given existing means of financing such a trip.
Where things went off the track was Incontrol advocating responsibility and whatnot while publicly putting down FXO both as a organization and specifically their players, which was totally uncalled for. He was neither asked, provoked into doing this nor does it align with his whiteknighting he displays on other matters regarding esports.
He could perfectly have taken the stance that neither he nor EG do see such an endeavor being fruitful, worrying about FXO's success given his opinion that other teams might fare better. But in no case he was obligated to belittle and look down on them for doing it and even accuse them of damaging the scene.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
You are making up those things btw
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On June 02 2011 11:01 Cajun2k1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 10:40 sereniity wrote:On June 02 2011 09:12 Doodsmack wrote:On June 02 2011 08:53 Cajun2k1 wrote:
I don't understand InControl's argument that Destiny is a 'face' of the SC2-community, and thus should refrain using words like nigger and rape, because he got interviewed by Forbes one time.
In the Weapon of Choice discussion between them, DJWheat called InControl out on his use of the 'native-american' accent, and the KellyMilkies-incident. But InControl didn't even go there, because he knows he's not the right person to call out Destiny for the language he uses. Instead he just dismisses it as a non-valid argument, without even giving proper arguments for it. Now in SoTG, he's like if we want ESports to grow we need to ban 'dirty' words. If that's the road ESports is gonna take if it wants to grow, draining the soul out of the game, then we should ask our selves, do we really want that? I'd rather have a 'small' community where 'everything' goes, then the major corporation-esque, soulless community that we're supposedly heading to.
Every sport needs their characters, good or bad. InControl dismisses Destiny's viewers that they only watch Destiny because of his character, doesn't that apply to the majority of the SC2-community? Whenever IdrA gets into some meaningless 'fight' with another player, that adds to the whole excitement for the game, as we've seen with Cruncher and Minigun, recently. So if you're gonna call out Destiny for using the words rape and nigger, and you let your teammate tell another player to go kill himself, and don't call him out on that, you sir, are using double standards and are a hypocrite. I agree, if we took the words nigger and rape out of Starcraft, it would drain the soul out of e-sports. This is actually quite hilarious... ok I can agree that rape MIGHT be okay but the word ni**er? really? I mean that's RACISM for god sake, how can you possibly think that word should be allowed/used in this community? I'd like you guys to think of yourselves as a coloured person for a sec, how fun would it be to hear someone say "oh fucking ni**er" on their stream in front of 3k people? I don't think you'd like it at all, saying the word fuck isn't so harsh because it's not really personal, saying rape isn't really neither in this case, however it IS personal to call someone a ni**er as that may be their ethnicity. I don't care much for it but I know alot of people that would just look weirdly at that and think "what the hell did he just say?" If you think the soul of this community consists of the word rape and ni**er then I pity you. It's only racism if the context allows it, do you think when I'm jovially calling a friend 'my nigger', it's not racism. Context is everything. Btw, the person you're quoting is being sarcastic.
How would you assess the context when someone uses the word nigger angrily at their opponent?
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Can we just let this all lie? It was clearly a terrible idea by JP to bring it up in the first place, particularly after we saw how it ended the last time iNcontroL and Destiny tried to have a civil discussion on it. It ruined iNcontroL's last SotG for me, personally, and makes me more wary of the show in general.
And now somehow the discussion has turned to whether or not iNcontroL "deserved" #4 in Dallas. Do I think he was the fourth best player there? No, not really. But he did finish 4th. If you have to "blame" anyone (and I don't see why you would), blame the system.
To be fair, iNcontroL has a tendency to respond either very aggressively, or by pretty much dismissing people as trolls, often based on straw-man arguments or the few bad eggs. We're not all bad, iNcontrol. Just try to ignore the trolls. When you respond in a way that alienates real fans with more or less coherent concerns and arguments, they win.
I might just have pulled a "or else the terrorists win", right there.
Keep being funny and opinionated, don't dismiss everyone's arguments for the sake of the few. Or else the terrorists win.
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On June 02 2011 12:24 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 11:01 Cajun2k1 wrote:On June 02 2011 10:40 sereniity wrote:On June 02 2011 09:12 Doodsmack wrote:On June 02 2011 08:53 Cajun2k1 wrote:
I don't understand InControl's argument that Destiny is a 'face' of the SC2-community, and thus should refrain using words like nigger and rape, because he got interviewed by Forbes one time.
In the Weapon of Choice discussion between them, DJWheat called InControl out on his use of the 'native-american' accent, and the KellyMilkies-incident. But InControl didn't even go there, because he knows he's not the right person to call out Destiny for the language he uses. Instead he just dismisses it as a non-valid argument, without even giving proper arguments for it. Now in SoTG, he's like if we want ESports to grow we need to ban 'dirty' words. If that's the road ESports is gonna take if it wants to grow, draining the soul out of the game, then we should ask our selves, do we really want that? I'd rather have a 'small' community where 'everything' goes, then the major corporation-esque, soulless community that we're supposedly heading to.
Every sport needs their characters, good or bad. InControl dismisses Destiny's viewers that they only watch Destiny because of his character, doesn't that apply to the majority of the SC2-community? Whenever IdrA gets into some meaningless 'fight' with another player, that adds to the whole excitement for the game, as we've seen with Cruncher and Minigun, recently. So if you're gonna call out Destiny for using the words rape and nigger, and you let your teammate tell another player to go kill himself, and don't call him out on that, you sir, are using double standards and are a hypocrite. I agree, if we took the words nigger and rape out of Starcraft, it would drain the soul out of e-sports. This is actually quite hilarious... ok I can agree that rape MIGHT be okay but the word ni**er? really? I mean that's RACISM for god sake, how can you possibly think that word should be allowed/used in this community? I'd like you guys to think of yourselves as a coloured person for a sec, how fun would it be to hear someone say "oh fucking ni**er" on their stream in front of 3k people? I don't think you'd like it at all, saying the word fuck isn't so harsh because it's not really personal, saying rape isn't really neither in this case, however it IS personal to call someone a ni**er as that may be their ethnicity. I don't care much for it but I know alot of people that would just look weirdly at that and think "what the hell did he just say?" If you think the soul of this community consists of the word rape and ni**er then I pity you. It's only racism if the context allows it, do you think when I'm jovially calling a friend 'my nigger', it's not racism. Context is everything. Btw, the person you're quoting is being sarcastic. How would you assess the context when someone uses the word nigger angrily at their opponent?
Same way when someone says asshole, dick, loser, etc. Doesn't necessarily mean that someone is the rear-end of a human, or a male genitalia.
It's a cuss-word, so that's the context. The reason why people get all riled up about it, gives the word it's meaning. I'm not advocating that people should yell 'nigger' at everyone, but saying that it shouldn't be used will make it more used, because then it becomes taboo.
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On June 02 2011 12:03 iNcontroL wrote:
You are making up those things btw
you were making things up when you misinformed your listeners about Mr. Chae's article. I suggest you read it. No where does he call american's or foreigners cowards. no where did you address the true meaning of that article. you completely misrepresented the article for your own purpose and agenda. thank you for being our self proclaimed e-sport representative to the world.
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On June 02 2011 12:36 Cajun2k1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 12:24 Doodsmack wrote:On June 02 2011 11:01 Cajun2k1 wrote:On June 02 2011 10:40 sereniity wrote:On June 02 2011 09:12 Doodsmack wrote:On June 02 2011 08:53 Cajun2k1 wrote:
I don't understand InControl's argument that Destiny is a 'face' of the SC2-community, and thus should refrain using words like nigger and rape, because he got interviewed by Forbes one time.
In the Weapon of Choice discussion between them, DJWheat called InControl out on his use of the 'native-american' accent, and the KellyMilkies-incident. But InControl didn't even go there, because he knows he's not the right person to call out Destiny for the language he uses. Instead he just dismisses it as a non-valid argument, without even giving proper arguments for it. Now in SoTG, he's like if we want ESports to grow we need to ban 'dirty' words. If that's the road ESports is gonna take if it wants to grow, draining the soul out of the game, then we should ask our selves, do we really want that? I'd rather have a 'small' community where 'everything' goes, then the major corporation-esque, soulless community that we're supposedly heading to.
Every sport needs their characters, good or bad. InControl dismisses Destiny's viewers that they only watch Destiny because of his character, doesn't that apply to the majority of the SC2-community? Whenever IdrA gets into some meaningless 'fight' with another player, that adds to the whole excitement for the game, as we've seen with Cruncher and Minigun, recently. So if you're gonna call out Destiny for using the words rape and nigger, and you let your teammate tell another player to go kill himself, and don't call him out on that, you sir, are using double standards and are a hypocrite. I agree, if we took the words nigger and rape out of Starcraft, it would drain the soul out of e-sports. This is actually quite hilarious... ok I can agree that rape MIGHT be okay but the word ni**er? really? I mean that's RACISM for god sake, how can you possibly think that word should be allowed/used in this community? I'd like you guys to think of yourselves as a coloured person for a sec, how fun would it be to hear someone say "oh fucking ni**er" on their stream in front of 3k people? I don't think you'd like it at all, saying the word fuck isn't so harsh because it's not really personal, saying rape isn't really neither in this case, however it IS personal to call someone a ni**er as that may be their ethnicity. I don't care much for it but I know alot of people that would just look weirdly at that and think "what the hell did he just say?" If you think the soul of this community consists of the word rape and ni**er then I pity you. It's only racism if the context allows it, do you think when I'm jovially calling a friend 'my nigger', it's not racism. Context is everything. Btw, the person you're quoting is being sarcastic. How would you assess the context when someone uses the word nigger angrily at their opponent? Same way when someone says asshole, dick, loser, etc. Doesn't necessarily mean that someone is the rear-end of a human, or a male genitalia. It's a cuss-word, so that's the context. The reason why people get all riled up about it, gives the word it's meaning. I'm not advocating that people should yell 'nigger' at everyone, but saying that it shouldn't be used will make it more used, because then it becomes taboo.
I think the issue with that is that it's not just a cuss word. It's a word with a very long and painful history for a generally disadvantaged minority. Calling someone a dick is a direct insult to that person with basically no collateral damage. Using the N-bomb is not the same, it has a very real and painful meaning to a minority.
I just find it difficult to accept the argument that people are using a word which has only a negative racial meaning as an insult yet are still claiming to not be racists. In that case, how far do you have to go before you are a racist?
Please note, I am obviously not saying you're a racist. :-)
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On June 02 2011 11:23 DR.Ham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 10:32 vyyye wrote:On June 02 2011 10:22 Rabiator wrote:On June 02 2011 09:15 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:36 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 02 2011 08:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:01 aquanda wrote:
It's really quite interesting in the most pathetic way possible how seriously you people take everything. I generally don't like quoting things just for the sake of quoting them, but I would put this in the fucking banner of the website if I had the power. everyone needs to get this message. NAH MAN ESPORTS ESPORTS ESPORTS U GOTTA THINK ABOUT ESPORTS CUZ UR HURTING THEM BM HURTS ESPORTS OFFENSIVE WORDS HURT ESPORTS CENSORSHIP HURTS ESPORTS HOT_BID'S TROLLING HURTS ESPORTS TL NAZIDOM HURTS ESPORTS TL'S BAD POSTERS HURT ESPORTS INCONTROL HURTS ESPORTS MLG HURTS ESPORTS SCANTILY CLAD GAMER GIRLS HURT ESPORTS HATE AGAINST GAMER GIRLS HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT 2 HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT BROODWAR HURTS ESPORTS BLIZZARD IS HURTING ESPORTS CAPS LOCK IS HURTING ESPORTS and the list could go on for infinity and then some. Ridiculous additions to things are the usual excuse for not having to do anything. "Oh I cant save the world, so I just continue destroying my own little bit of it." Just get some common sense and respect your societies values instead of trying to be a smartass kid and ignore others. After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up. Not only rebels, murderers with intent to kill. Using curses can after all make some random las commit suicide, right? That's what you said anyway. I think that's as bullshit as this post. When you stop believing the whole world is one big society you might realize your ideals aren't the bloody be all end all. "After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up". Do you have any idea how ridiculous that notion is? Who the fuck are you to judge maturity of individuals based solely on their vocabulary? I get people arguing in favor of Incontrol's arguments. Unlike Incontrol, however, some aren't rational and believe anyone not sharing their opinion is an immature little prick. And that's not cool, not cool at all. Let me tell you a secret. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" isn't destroying the world. Destiny is not destroying the world. "South Park" isn't destroying the world. Fucking incredible, is it not? Maybe it's tarnishing your vision of an utopia with your chosen vocabulary, but the world goes on just fine with a "fuck" there and a "nigger" here. No, I don't want to hear "nigger" in the NASL, or anywhere else for that matter. But I can say for fucking certain that I prefer hearing "nigger" every now and then to reading the garbage from people suffering from severe superiority complexes. How are people in 2011 trying to justify the use of the N word in any context? Am I to understand that as a white Swedish person, you are giving your blessing for the use of that word as a day to day insult? Maybe the word doesn't offend you, but can you understand that you are not the group / minority that it is supposed to insult?
everything he said went completely over your head.....
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On June 02 2011 12:51 gogatorsfoster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 11:23 DR.Ham wrote:On June 02 2011 10:32 vyyye wrote:On June 02 2011 10:22 Rabiator wrote:On June 02 2011 09:15 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:36 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 02 2011 08:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On June 02 2011 08:01 aquanda wrote:
It's really quite interesting in the most pathetic way possible how seriously you people take everything. I generally don't like quoting things just for the sake of quoting them, but I would put this in the fucking banner of the website if I had the power. everyone needs to get this message. NAH MAN ESPORTS ESPORTS ESPORTS U GOTTA THINK ABOUT ESPORTS CUZ UR HURTING THEM BM HURTS ESPORTS OFFENSIVE WORDS HURT ESPORTS CENSORSHIP HURTS ESPORTS HOT_BID'S TROLLING HURTS ESPORTS TL NAZIDOM HURTS ESPORTS TL'S BAD POSTERS HURT ESPORTS INCONTROL HURTS ESPORTS MLG HURTS ESPORTS SCANTILY CLAD GAMER GIRLS HURT ESPORTS HATE AGAINST GAMER GIRLS HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT 2 HURTS ESPORTS STARCRAFT BROODWAR HURTS ESPORTS BLIZZARD IS HURTING ESPORTS CAPS LOCK IS HURTING ESPORTS and the list could go on for infinity and then some. Ridiculous additions to things are the usual excuse for not having to do anything. "Oh I cant save the world, so I just continue destroying my own little bit of it." Just get some common sense and respect your societies values instead of trying to be a smartass kid and ignore others. After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up. Not only rebels, murderers with intent to kill. Using curses can after all make some random las commit suicide, right? That's what you said anyway. I think that's as bullshit as this post. When you stop believing the whole world is one big society you might realize your ideals aren't the bloody be all end all. "After thinking about the whole swearing and cursing thing I have come to the conclusion that those guys are todays version of Peter Pan ... they still want to be "the rebel" they were in their early teens and cant really get over it and grow up". Do you have any idea how ridiculous that notion is? Who the fuck are you to judge maturity of individuals based solely on their vocabulary? I get people arguing in favor of Incontrol's arguments. Unlike Incontrol, however, some aren't rational and believe anyone not sharing their opinion is an immature little prick. And that's not cool, not cool at all. Let me tell you a secret. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" isn't destroying the world. Destiny is not destroying the world. "South Park" isn't destroying the world. Fucking incredible, is it not? Maybe it's tarnishing your vision of an utopia with your chosen vocabulary, but the world goes on just fine with a "fuck" there and a "nigger" here. No, I don't want to hear "nigger" in the NASL, or anywhere else for that matter. But I can say for fucking certain that I prefer hearing "nigger" every now and then to reading the garbage from people suffering from severe superiority complexes. How are people in 2011 trying to justify the use of the N word in any context? Am I to understand that as a white Swedish person, you are giving your blessing for the use of that word as a day to day insult? Maybe the word doesn't offend you, but can you understand that you are not the group / minority that it is supposed to insult? everything he said went completely over your head.....
No it didn't. In an environment such as streaming or on internet forums where you can only express yourself with your vocabulary and how you use it, then that is precisely what you judge people on.
When someone says they prefer to hear the N-word than hear someone asking them not to say it, to my mind, that seems like an implicit okay for that word's use. No?
I'm not saying the world is going to end, but it just seems very difficult to justify when people could just as easily say something else.
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On June 02 2011 01:20 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 01:11 iNcontroL wrote:
I have no idea how this happens. You guys would have to have not followed the team scene at all... EG took 3rd in GCPL, 1st in Crota invitational, 2nd in ESEA and various top finishes for the SPL or w/e and the other clan league that all the top teams participated in.
FXO has literally 0 team accomplishments except losing to EG in ESEA and taking I think 4th.
Where the HELL do people get it in their mind that they are a better team? It absolutely cannot be through results. Arbitrary considerations with players? Qxc hasn't been his former self since MLG of last year when he still placed lower than several EG players. Moonan? No accomplishments. Slog? Filthy? Tgun or w/e... all lower level than Machine, Strifecro and Lz. Sheth is great. But still has fewer / less accomplishments than I do in big tourneys (MLG). Then we compare super-stars.. IdrA vs Moonglade. Need I say more? And all this without mentioning Axslav who won MVP for crota invitational going undefeated against players like Jinro and the other top players from top teams.
I hate that I had to make this post cause there is no way to come off good but the stickler in me cannot stand people being dumb.
FUCK and I somehow forgot Demuslim.. really how the hell did you guys ever compare? I don't get it either. But people will always be blinded by the teams they like \ love. Its the way all competition between supporters exist. EG is in a different league than FXO, I'm actually having problems seing how people can even compare them.
Well I wouldnt say they are in a different league. Idra is the strongest player of the lot, but Sheth, Moonglade, qxc are pretty comparible to Demuslim, machine, incontrol and axlav.
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On June 02 2011 12:45 Blitz Beat wrote:you were making things up when you misinformed your listeners about Mr. Chae's article. I suggest you read it. No where does he call american's or foreigners cowards. no where did you address the true meaning of that article. you completely misrepresented the article for your own purpose and agenda. thank you for being our self proclaimed e-sport representative to the world.
This. I'd generally agree with your (Incontrol's) stance on EG, FXO, GSTL, and the risks therein, but misrepresenting Chae's position and calling him retarded (which is cool, right, since it's not the n-word?) was disappointing, especially after Idra called you out on how dissimilar your characterization of Chae was to Idra's experience with him.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
wtf
I didn't call him retarded and idra didn't "call me out" he said "that's surprising he is generally cool"
Shut the fuck up
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EPT
