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On June 02 2011 15:28 Beef Noodles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:26 Heavenly wrote:On June 02 2011 13:47 Vendor wrote:On June 02 2011 13:39 Pekkz wrote:On June 02 2011 13:21 iNcontroL wrote:
wtf
I didn't call him retarded and idra didn't "call me out" he said "that's surprising he is generally cool"
Shut the fuck up For someone who recently have been really outspoken about the necessity for mature language in the sc2 community, you have a really bad follow through. His main points (especially in relation to the show) were on words the average person considers far worse then "fuck". If you watched the show it was really over two words and nothing much else. There was also a large argument regarding context. He just told another person to shut the fuck up, intending to fully direct his anger at another person in an unprofessional manner, after he argues about another person using words in a contextually innocent way. So apparently using slightly more innocent phrases in a spiteful manner is worse than using arguably worst words jokingly? And he can argue that this is conduct unbecoming of a community figurehead, which Destiny barely is, while he is the main person being the biggest league in North America? You are just wrong. Please stop. The n-word is not "arguably worse" than fuck. It is just worse.
It is arguably worse or people wouldn't argue over it. There is obviously no point to arguing because you're set on your belief and it's already been addressed in this thread. Apparently calling one of your friends 'my nigga' is worse than angrily telling people to shut the fuck up according to the largely white community senselessly obsessed with political correctness. Keep up with your silly little argument, I don't care whatsoever what you think is "objective fact" in that particular debate, what Incontrol is doing is hypocritical.
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On June 01 2011 23:02 Marzuki wrote:
Amazing, a thread full of experts on language and social theory!
I didn't realize one needed a doctorate in sociolinguistics to know that "nigger" is a fucking terrible word that shouldn't be used.
People use crude and offensive language, not least gamers. I am actually really surprised anyone is offended by the word "rape" being used in a context to indicate competitive domination. I have heard this word shouted countless times in groups of nerds for nearly 12 years.
And I've heard them say "faggot" for nearly 20. Of course, they don't literally mean to call anyone a homosexual in a derogatory fashion, even when they extend the metaphor with references to taking it up the ass. It's all in good fun!
Anyway, I give up. If a person is not intelligent enough to understand why "rape", "faggot", "nigger" etc are completely unacceptable, and why "fuck" "shit" and "cock" aren't even in the same category of speech, then trying to convince them otherwise is a giant waste of time and energy. I see the thread has moved on to mindless Incontrol bashing, anyway.
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On June 02 2011 15:34 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:28 Beef Noodles wrote:On June 02 2011 15:26 Heavenly wrote:On June 02 2011 13:47 Vendor wrote:On June 02 2011 13:39 Pekkz wrote:On June 02 2011 13:21 iNcontroL wrote:
wtf
I didn't call him retarded and idra didn't "call me out" he said "that's surprising he is generally cool"
Shut the fuck up For someone who recently have been really outspoken about the necessity for mature language in the sc2 community, you have a really bad follow through. His main points (especially in relation to the show) were on words the average person considers far worse then "fuck". If you watched the show it was really over two words and nothing much else. There was also a large argument regarding context. He just told another person to shut the fuck up, intending to fully direct his anger at another person in an unprofessional manner, after he argues about another person using words in a contextually innocent way. So apparently using slightly more innocent phrases in a spiteful manner is worse than using arguably worst words jokingly? And he can argue that this is conduct unbecoming of a community figurehead, which Destiny barely is, while he is the main person being the biggest league in North America? You are just wrong. Please stop. The n-word is not "arguably worse" than fuck. It is just worse. It is arguably worse or people wouldn't argue over it. There is obviously no point to arguing because you're set on your belief and it's already been addressed in this thread. Apparently calling one of your friends 'my nigga' is worse than angrily telling people to shut the fuck up according to the largely white community senselessly obsessed with political correctness. Keep up with your silly little argument, I don't care whatsoever what you think is "objective fact" in that particular debate, what Incontrol is doing is hypocritical.
Fuck is not a word created to demean the sexually active members of society. The n-word was created to demean African Americans. If there was a group of sex-lovers who hated the word fuck, and if they felt uncomfortable/attacked whenever anyone used "fuck," then I would consider it to hold the same negative power that the n-word holds. Saying otherwise is a strange "opinion" based in your own fantastical world.
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On June 02 2011 15:34 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:28 Beef Noodles wrote:On June 02 2011 15:26 Heavenly wrote:On June 02 2011 13:47 Vendor wrote:On June 02 2011 13:39 Pekkz wrote:On June 02 2011 13:21 iNcontroL wrote:
wtf
I didn't call him retarded and idra didn't "call me out" he said "that's surprising he is generally cool"
Shut the fuck up For someone who recently have been really outspoken about the necessity for mature language in the sc2 community, you have a really bad follow through. His main points (especially in relation to the show) were on words the average person considers far worse then "fuck". If you watched the show it was really over two words and nothing much else. There was also a large argument regarding context. He just told another person to shut the fuck up, intending to fully direct his anger at another person in an unprofessional manner, after he argues about another person using words in a contextually innocent way. So apparently using slightly more innocent phrases in a spiteful manner is worse than using arguably worst words jokingly? And he can argue that this is conduct unbecoming of a community figurehead, which Destiny barely is, while he is the main person being the biggest league in North America? You are just wrong. Please stop. The n-word is not "arguably worse" than fuck. It is just worse. It is arguably worse or people wouldn't argue over it.
lol
logic fail
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On June 02 2011 15:39 Beef Noodles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:34 Heavenly wrote:On June 02 2011 15:28 Beef Noodles wrote:On June 02 2011 15:26 Heavenly wrote:On June 02 2011 13:47 Vendor wrote:On June 02 2011 13:39 Pekkz wrote:On June 02 2011 13:21 iNcontroL wrote:
wtf
I didn't call him retarded and idra didn't "call me out" he said "that's surprising he is generally cool"
Shut the fuck up For someone who recently have been really outspoken about the necessity for mature language in the sc2 community, you have a really bad follow through. His main points (especially in relation to the show) were on words the average person considers far worse then "fuck". If you watched the show it was really over two words and nothing much else. There was also a large argument regarding context. He just told another person to shut the fuck up, intending to fully direct his anger at another person in an unprofessional manner, after he argues about another person using words in a contextually innocent way. So apparently using slightly more innocent phrases in a spiteful manner is worse than using arguably worst words jokingly? And he can argue that this is conduct unbecoming of a community figurehead, which Destiny barely is, while he is the main person being the biggest league in North America? You are just wrong. Please stop. The n-word is not "arguably worse" than fuck. It is just worse. It is arguably worse or people wouldn't argue over it. There is obviously no point to arguing because you're set on your belief and it's already been addressed in this thread. Apparently calling one of your friends 'my nigga' is worse than angrily telling people to shut the fuck up according to the largely white community senselessly obsessed with political correctness. Keep up with your silly little argument, I don't care whatsoever what you think is "objective fact" in that particular debate, what Incontrol is doing is hypocritical. Fuck is not a word created to demean the sexually active members of society. The n-word was created to demean African Americans. If there was a group of sex-lovers who hated the word fuck, and if they felt uncomfortable/attacked whenever anyone used "fuck," then I would consider it to hold the same negative power that the n-word holds. Saying otherwise is a strange "opinion" based in your own fantastical world.
Shut the fuck up is a term meant to personally demean the person it is directed to. The n-word was created to demean African Americans in one context but in other contexts it is not. Me and tons of black friends call each other "my nigga" without problem, but if I was to tell one of them to shut the fuck up in the same manner Incontrol used than they would be far more offended. While it is cute that you grant mystical powers to words intention and context is far more important when it comes to offending people. If you think that any use of the n-word is more offensive than any use of the term "shut the fuck up" YOU are the one living in your own little fantastical world clad in your righteous armor of political correctness.
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On June 02 2011 15:25 Blitz Beat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 14:58 Razuik wrote:On June 02 2011 14:28 Blitz Beat wrote:On June 02 2011 14:12 aquanda wrote:On June 02 2011 10:13 The KY wrote:
ESPORTS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS YO.
Ok I just read through the recentposts in this thread and yeah it's pretty fucking awful. Inc defends his team when someone claims FXO are better and suddenly you've got 10-20 people jumping down his throat, trying to delegitimise his results, basically insulting him as a player which is his livelihood, then when he reacts angrily he gets a smug little 'hey calm down I was only calling you fucking terrible, you're the one who was shitting on other players, why are you playing the victim.'
For some unknown reason there's a fucking legion of arseholes who feel the need to put iNcontroL under far more scrutiny than is necessary, then take any opportunity to shit on him.
Every MLG last year; Inc is fucking awful!
MLG Dallas; Inc got an easy bracket!
MLG groups announced; Inc gets another easy group what a joke! (this one was particularly weird...so many people were saying it. Where's the people saying 'TLO gets the easiest group again guess he gets an easy road to 5th again!'. Why single out Inc from the 20 people in the groups?)
Inc streaming; He just lost a bunch of games, guess he's fucking shitty!
And now Inc defends his team and himself and the vultures fucking descend again. No wonder he got pissed and left the thread and the show on such a sour note.
I call bullshit on the iNcontroL hate. Just fucking stop. Yup I agree with everything you've said. I am glad he left SotG now, fuck the community to be honest. He puts himself out there every week to make a great show and people shit on him over and over. I'm so goddamn sick of the overwhelming bullshit in every single aspect of the Starcraft community I just don't see a reason to visit this site except to view streams and tournament information. The rest of it can just fuck off. The whole 'our community is great' thing applies to a very small minority, as well as in real life. Most people just post to make themselves feel and look important, and it's pretty apparent. you do realize that the public is doing to him what he does to others right? Geoff openly mocks his friend Kelly Milkies and says that gom made a bad choice hiring her. He totally screws with totalbiscuit to the point where totalbiscuit calls out geoff. it was geoff who called out FXO saying "EG is better than them". EG was NOT criticized until geoff said this. He could have said "Congratulations to FXO. They're going to have it hard in Korea but best of wishes and luck" but rather shitted all over their opportunity. just as much as he misrepresents others, others misrepresent him. Theres a reason why Geoff is a love / hate guy. his latest soap box episode didn't help it any and the fact that he lectures the community on verbal ethics and then follows up by telling someone to "shut the fuck up" does not help either. (regardless of context or level of words, the hypocrisy and irony is still there). you can't say that the community has gone to shit without criticizing geoff as well. golden rule: do unto others as you would like done unto you. Well I'm so happy that we have people like you that can uphold the golden rule for Geoff! He makes comments about Kelly Milkies and other casters mostly as a joke. I know it's hard to believe but people make jokes and criticisms of people that they KNOW to a certain extent. Even if the jokes come off to harsh, Geoff is always the first to apologize. mostly as a joke but the people who he "jokes" about get offended. its not a joke when you're confronted and told to stop. a joke might get thousands of laughs but if even one person is offended its not a joke, especially if that one person is the subject of the joke. he crosses the lines of joke and offense way too often. also, apologies don't always work. you don't say something with the rationale of 'if people are offended i just have to apologize'. how often did he apologize on sotg or whenever he says something? when you're constantly apologizing or when you're constantly the center of controversy / criticism, there's a reason for it. "hey, your mom is a stupid bimbo who's only good for one thing ... what you're offended. sorry. but anyway, hey your sister is a stupid bimbo who's only good for... offended? sorry. your aunt... sorry." eventually he needs to understand that so long as he says controversial things or makes 'jokes' at another person's expense, that he'll be in the center of attention. unfortunately he's not like his counterpart idra who doesn't give a shit about what goes on in the forums / community. so if he doesn't like the negative attention that comes with the good, then the only solution is to stop. as for the golden rule, i hope that you'll criticize me too when i make hypocritical statements, offend others, and get on a soap box to lecture others on how they should act (go to church, eat your broccolis, don't say 'shut the fuck up', go to college).
Has he continued to make jokes about the people that have confronted him? No. You make him to be this "Center of controversy"... you fail to realize that it's the constant judging he receives from people that have no business judging him that makes him the "Center of controversy". Bottom line: If you're not perfect, don't try to make Incontrol perfect.
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On June 02 2011 15:22 Xevious wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 11:37 Liight wrote:
Words over the internet dirrected nowhere towards you are serious buisiness. This. People are taking this shit way too seriously. Destiny isn't deterring esports whatsoever, neither is Idra or anyone else swearing or BMing on their stream.
And you can guarantee that there will never ever be someone NOT getting a job because he got used to say stupid stuff from watching someones stream? If you say *fuck* all the time you will start to think using it and since it is an aggressive word your thoughts will become more aggressive than necessary. Its just a tiny step DOWN the spiral of personal qualification.
Does anyone really think that any of the successful black people use the "Yo bro' ... whazzuup?" slang in their daily lives? Except for rappers that is most likely not the case. Language is the key to success and bad language skills are hard to unlearn. "Proper language" is a norm of society and since Starcraft is a pastime of youth it has a mostly very very young audience which is still forming its language skills. So it does matter how people talk on streams and the streamers are responsible for what they do.
Denying that they arent hurting it is just closing your eyes because you are too lazy to change. We all have to choose between what is right and what is easy. That is very true for many things in life and this is yet another issue ...
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On June 02 2011 15:52 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:22 Xevious wrote:On June 02 2011 11:37 Liight wrote:
Words over the internet dirrected nowhere towards you are serious buisiness. This. People are taking this shit way too seriously. Destiny isn't deterring esports whatsoever, neither is Idra or anyone else swearing or BMing on their stream. And you can guarantee that there will never ever be someone NOT getting a job because he got used to say stupid stuff from watching someones stream? If you say *fuck* all the time you will start to think using it and since it is an aggressive word your thoughts will become more aggressive than necessary. Its just a tiny step DOWN the spiral of personal qualification. Does anyone really think that any of the successful black people use the "Yo bro' ... whazzuup?" slang in their daily lives? Except for rappers that is most likely not the case. Language is the key to success and bad language skills are hard to unlearn. "Proper language" is a norm of society and since Starcraft is a pastime of youth it has a mostly very very young audience which is still forming its language skills. So it does matter how people talk on streams and the streamers are responsible for what they do. Denying that they arent hurting it is just closing your eyes because you are too lazy to change. We all have to choose between what is right and what is easy. That is very true for many things in life and this is yet another issue ...
If you let someone else influence you that much then it's your problem. The streams have a language warning before you click them from TL at the very least and a warning from jtv. If that isn't a enough then they should not watch the stream period. People need to be responsible for themselves.
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On June 02 2011 15:52 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:25 Blitz Beat wrote:On June 02 2011 14:58 Razuik wrote:On June 02 2011 14:28 Blitz Beat wrote:On June 02 2011 14:12 aquanda wrote:On June 02 2011 10:13 The KY wrote:
ESPORTS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS YO.
Ok I just read through the recentposts in this thread and yeah it's pretty fucking awful. Inc defends his team when someone claims FXO are better and suddenly you've got 10-20 people jumping down his throat, trying to delegitimise his results, basically insulting him as a player which is his livelihood, then when he reacts angrily he gets a smug little 'hey calm down I was only calling you fucking terrible, you're the one who was shitting on other players, why are you playing the victim.'
For some unknown reason there's a fucking legion of arseholes who feel the need to put iNcontroL under far more scrutiny than is necessary, then take any opportunity to shit on him.
Every MLG last year; Inc is fucking awful!
MLG Dallas; Inc got an easy bracket!
MLG groups announced; Inc gets another easy group what a joke! (this one was particularly weird...so many people were saying it. Where's the people saying 'TLO gets the easiest group again guess he gets an easy road to 5th again!'. Why single out Inc from the 20 people in the groups?)
Inc streaming; He just lost a bunch of games, guess he's fucking shitty!
And now Inc defends his team and himself and the vultures fucking descend again. No wonder he got pissed and left the thread and the show on such a sour note.
I call bullshit on the iNcontroL hate. Just fucking stop. Yup I agree with everything you've said. I am glad he left SotG now, fuck the community to be honest. He puts himself out there every week to make a great show and people shit on him over and over. I'm so goddamn sick of the overwhelming bullshit in every single aspect of the Starcraft community I just don't see a reason to visit this site except to view streams and tournament information. The rest of it can just fuck off. The whole 'our community is great' thing applies to a very small minority, as well as in real life. Most people just post to make themselves feel and look important, and it's pretty apparent. you do realize that the public is doing to him what he does to others right? Geoff openly mocks his friend Kelly Milkies and says that gom made a bad choice hiring her. He totally screws with totalbiscuit to the point where totalbiscuit calls out geoff. it was geoff who called out FXO saying "EG is better than them". EG was NOT criticized until geoff said this. He could have said "Congratulations to FXO. They're going to have it hard in Korea but best of wishes and luck" but rather shitted all over their opportunity. just as much as he misrepresents others, others misrepresent him. Theres a reason why Geoff is a love / hate guy. his latest soap box episode didn't help it any and the fact that he lectures the community on verbal ethics and then follows up by telling someone to "shut the fuck up" does not help either. (regardless of context or level of words, the hypocrisy and irony is still there). you can't say that the community has gone to shit without criticizing geoff as well. golden rule: do unto others as you would like done unto you. Well I'm so happy that we have people like you that can uphold the golden rule for Geoff! He makes comments about Kelly Milkies and other casters mostly as a joke. I know it's hard to believe but people make jokes and criticisms of people that they KNOW to a certain extent. Even if the jokes come off to harsh, Geoff is always the first to apologize. mostly as a joke but the people who he "jokes" about get offended. its not a joke when you're confronted and told to stop. a joke might get thousands of laughs but if even one person is offended its not a joke, especially if that one person is the subject of the joke. he crosses the lines of joke and offense way too often. also, apologies don't always work. you don't say something with the rationale of 'if people are offended i just have to apologize'. how often did he apologize on sotg or whenever he says something? when you're constantly apologizing or when you're constantly the center of controversy / criticism, there's a reason for it. "hey, your mom is a stupid bimbo who's only good for one thing ... what you're offended. sorry. but anyway, hey your sister is a stupid bimbo who's only good for... offended? sorry. your aunt... sorry." eventually he needs to understand that so long as he says controversial things or makes 'jokes' at another person's expense, that he'll be in the center of attention. unfortunately he's not like his counterpart idra who doesn't give a shit about what goes on in the forums / community. so if he doesn't like the negative attention that comes with the good, then the only solution is to stop. as for the golden rule, i hope that you'll criticize me too when i make hypocritical statements, offend others, and get on a soap box to lecture others on how they should act (go to church, eat your broccolis, don't say 'shut the fuck up', go to college). Has he continued to make jokes about the people that have confronted him? No. You make him to be this "Center of controversy"... you fail to realize that it's the constant judging he receives from people that have no business judging him that makes him the "Center of controversy". Bottom line: If you're not perfect, don't try to make Incontrol perfect.
no one wants him perfect. the very fact that he has "the constant judging he receives from people" should mean that he is constantly doing something to irk them.
you constantly get a ticket. you're not a perfect driver. why are the police trying to make you perfect? if you're constantly getting ticketed, its because you're doing something wrong consistently. in all facets of society, media and the public acts as a police for high profile individuals. geoff cosntantly makes statements that are deemed offensive or incorrect within this community. therefore, he constantly gets criticized for it. he says 'i'm sorry but its not my fault'. then he goes and does it again and again and again.
by the way, he has been good about staying away from those who confront him. however, he just hops onto another issue. he was talking about total biscuit and then stopped. he then went onto kelly and then stopped. he went onto fxo this weekend and i hope he stops (fxo and eg are going to need to hash things out, at least their twitter insists they have somethign to say to eg). the point is, if he doesn't like the negative attention / criticism, then he needs to stop hopping from topic to topic making offensive / controversial statements. its not like theres no way to be not controversial / offensive right? tyler, jp, day9 and even idra has found a way when they're on sotg. its not just that he's controversial though, its that he's aggressively controversial / offensive and is down right wrong as well.
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All of this is so funny in light of the recent "word debate".
A public figure takes a strong stance against offensive words in a popular podcast.
The same public figure then make a lot of offensive posts on a forum after offending a lot of people in a popular podcast.
Offensive words will not destroy the esport scene, business and hypocrisy will take care of it way before.
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On June 02 2011 15:46 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:39 Beef Noodles wrote:On June 02 2011 15:34 Heavenly wrote:On June 02 2011 15:28 Beef Noodles wrote:On June 02 2011 15:26 Heavenly wrote:On June 02 2011 13:47 Vendor wrote:On June 02 2011 13:39 Pekkz wrote:On June 02 2011 13:21 iNcontroL wrote:
wtf
I didn't call him retarded and idra didn't "call me out" he said "that's surprising he is generally cool"
Shut the fuck up For someone who recently have been really outspoken about the necessity for mature language in the sc2 community, you have a really bad follow through. His main points (especially in relation to the show) were on words the average person considers far worse then "fuck". If you watched the show it was really over two words and nothing much else. There was also a large argument regarding context. He just told another person to shut the fuck up, intending to fully direct his anger at another person in an unprofessional manner, after he argues about another person using words in a contextually innocent way. So apparently using slightly more innocent phrases in a spiteful manner is worse than using arguably worst words jokingly? And he can argue that this is conduct unbecoming of a community figurehead, which Destiny barely is, while he is the main person being the biggest league in North America? You are just wrong. Please stop. The n-word is not "arguably worse" than fuck. It is just worse. It is arguably worse or people wouldn't argue over it. There is obviously no point to arguing because you're set on your belief and it's already been addressed in this thread. Apparently calling one of your friends 'my nigga' is worse than angrily telling people to shut the fuck up according to the largely white community senselessly obsessed with political correctness. Keep up with your silly little argument, I don't care whatsoever what you think is "objective fact" in that particular debate, what Incontrol is doing is hypocritical. Fuck is not a word created to demean the sexually active members of society. The n-word was created to demean African Americans. If there was a group of sex-lovers who hated the word fuck, and if they felt uncomfortable/attacked whenever anyone used "fuck," then I would consider it to hold the same negative power that the n-word holds. Saying otherwise is a strange "opinion" based in your own fantastical world. Shut the fuck up is a term meant to personally demean the person it is directed to. The n-word was created to demean African Americans in one context but in other contexts it is not. Me and tons of black friends call each other "my nigga" without problem, but if I was to tell one of them to shut the fuck up in the same manner Incontrol used than they would be far more offended. While it is cute that you grant mystical powers to words intention and context is far more important when it comes to offending people. If you think that any use of the n-word is more offensive than any use of the term "shut the fuck up" YOU are the one living in your own little fantastical world clad in your righteous armor of political correctness.
"Shut the fuck up" is not a term, nor does it demean the person its directed to. It's not polite obviously, but that's by the by.
The issue with the N-bomb, is even though you and your "tons" of black friends may have no issue with it, and all power to them for that, plenty of other people do have a issue with simply hearing the word used by people who don't own it. By this I mean, it started out as a derogatory word, African Americans took ownership of it so remove the offence somewhat when they use it amongst themselves / in music etc. That does not give carte blanche for everyone to use it in a public forum.
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On June 02 2011 15:55 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:52 Rabiator wrote:On June 02 2011 15:22 Xevious wrote:On June 02 2011 11:37 Liight wrote:
Words over the internet dirrected nowhere towards you are serious buisiness. This. People are taking this shit way too seriously. Destiny isn't deterring esports whatsoever, neither is Idra or anyone else swearing or BMing on their stream. And you can guarantee that there will never ever be someone NOT getting a job because he got used to say stupid stuff from watching someones stream? If you say *fuck* all the time you will start to think using it and since it is an aggressive word your thoughts will become more aggressive than necessary. Its just a tiny step DOWN the spiral of personal qualification. Does anyone really think that any of the successful black people use the "Yo bro' ... whazzuup?" slang in their daily lives? Except for rappers that is most likely not the case. Language is the key to success and bad language skills are hard to unlearn. "Proper language" is a norm of society and since Starcraft is a pastime of youth it has a mostly very very young audience which is still forming its language skills. So it does matter how people talk on streams and the streamers are responsible for what they do. Denying that they arent hurting it is just closing your eyes because you are too lazy to change. We all have to choose between what is right and what is easy. That is very true for many things in life and this is yet another issue ... If you let someone else influence you that much then it's your problem. The streams have a language warning before you click them from TL at the very least and a warning from jtv. If that isn't a enough then they should not watch the stream period. People need to be responsible for themselves.
Language warning ... roflmao
1. The warning is only from TL, right? So if you reach the stream from somewhere else ...
2. Kids are influenced by everything and shaped by it, that is a fact of life. They are NOT fully in control of their own decisions and that is the reason why they are MINORS and there is a separate law for children.
3. Since when has a simple "1-click question" of "are you 18 or older?" ever deterred a teenager from watching stuff?
Adults are responsible for what they do ... everything. You cant guarantee that there are zero kids watching foul language streams and it has always been the rule that "the dirtier it gets the more attractive it becomes to kids". ALWAYS. Any denial is just using the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law.
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On June 02 2011 16:04 Blitz Beat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:52 Razuik wrote:On June 02 2011 15:25 Blitz Beat wrote:On June 02 2011 14:58 Razuik wrote:On June 02 2011 14:28 Blitz Beat wrote:On June 02 2011 14:12 aquanda wrote:On June 02 2011 10:13 The KY wrote:
ESPORTS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS YO.
Ok I just read through the recentposts in this thread and yeah it's pretty fucking awful. Inc defends his team when someone claims FXO are better and suddenly you've got 10-20 people jumping down his throat, trying to delegitimise his results, basically insulting him as a player which is his livelihood, then when he reacts angrily he gets a smug little 'hey calm down I was only calling you fucking terrible, you're the one who was shitting on other players, why are you playing the victim.'
For some unknown reason there's a fucking legion of arseholes who feel the need to put iNcontroL under far more scrutiny than is necessary, then take any opportunity to shit on him.
Every MLG last year; Inc is fucking awful!
MLG Dallas; Inc got an easy bracket!
MLG groups announced; Inc gets another easy group what a joke! (this one was particularly weird...so many people were saying it. Where's the people saying 'TLO gets the easiest group again guess he gets an easy road to 5th again!'. Why single out Inc from the 20 people in the groups?)
Inc streaming; He just lost a bunch of games, guess he's fucking shitty!
And now Inc defends his team and himself and the vultures fucking descend again. No wonder he got pissed and left the thread and the show on such a sour note.
I call bullshit on the iNcontroL hate. Just fucking stop. Yup I agree with everything you've said. I am glad he left SotG now, fuck the community to be honest. He puts himself out there every week to make a great show and people shit on him over and over. I'm so goddamn sick of the overwhelming bullshit in every single aspect of the Starcraft community I just don't see a reason to visit this site except to view streams and tournament information. The rest of it can just fuck off. The whole 'our community is great' thing applies to a very small minority, as well as in real life. Most people just post to make themselves feel and look important, and it's pretty apparent. you do realize that the public is doing to him what he does to others right? Geoff openly mocks his friend Kelly Milkies and says that gom made a bad choice hiring her. He totally screws with totalbiscuit to the point where totalbiscuit calls out geoff. it was geoff who called out FXO saying "EG is better than them". EG was NOT criticized until geoff said this. He could have said "Congratulations to FXO. They're going to have it hard in Korea but best of wishes and luck" but rather shitted all over their opportunity. just as much as he misrepresents others, others misrepresent him. Theres a reason why Geoff is a love / hate guy. his latest soap box episode didn't help it any and the fact that he lectures the community on verbal ethics and then follows up by telling someone to "shut the fuck up" does not help either. (regardless of context or level of words, the hypocrisy and irony is still there). you can't say that the community has gone to shit without criticizing geoff as well. golden rule: do unto others as you would like done unto you. Well I'm so happy that we have people like you that can uphold the golden rule for Geoff! He makes comments about Kelly Milkies and other casters mostly as a joke. I know it's hard to believe but people make jokes and criticisms of people that they KNOW to a certain extent. Even if the jokes come off to harsh, Geoff is always the first to apologize. mostly as a joke but the people who he "jokes" about get offended. its not a joke when you're confronted and told to stop. a joke might get thousands of laughs but if even one person is offended its not a joke, especially if that one person is the subject of the joke. he crosses the lines of joke and offense way too often. also, apologies don't always work. you don't say something with the rationale of 'if people are offended i just have to apologize'. how often did he apologize on sotg or whenever he says something? when you're constantly apologizing or when you're constantly the center of controversy / criticism, there's a reason for it. "hey, your mom is a stupid bimbo who's only good for one thing ... what you're offended. sorry. but anyway, hey your sister is a stupid bimbo who's only good for... offended? sorry. your aunt... sorry." eventually he needs to understand that so long as he says controversial things or makes 'jokes' at another person's expense, that he'll be in the center of attention. unfortunately he's not like his counterpart idra who doesn't give a shit about what goes on in the forums / community. so if he doesn't like the negative attention that comes with the good, then the only solution is to stop. as for the golden rule, i hope that you'll criticize me too when i make hypocritical statements, offend others, and get on a soap box to lecture others on how they should act (go to church, eat your broccolis, don't say 'shut the fuck up', go to college). Has he continued to make jokes about the people that have confronted him? No. You make him to be this "Center of controversy"... you fail to realize that it's the constant judging he receives from people that have no business judging him that makes him the "Center of controversy". Bottom line: If you're not perfect, don't try to make Incontrol perfect. no one wants him perfect. the very fact that he has "the constant judging he receives from people" should mean that he is constantly doing something to irk them. you constantly get a ticket. you're not a perfect driver. why are the police trying to make you perfect? if you're constantly getting ticketed, its because you're doing something wrong consistently. in all facets of society, media and the public acts as a police for high profile individuals. geoff cosntantly makes statements that are deemed offensive or incorrect within this community. therefore, he constantly gets criticized for it. he says 'i'm sorry but its not my fault'. then he goes and does it again and again and again. by the way, he has been good about staying away from those who confront him. however, he just hops onto another issue. he was talking about total biscuit and then stopped. he then went onto kelly and then stopped. he went onto fxo this weekend and i hope he stops (fxo and eg are going to need to hash things out, at least their twitter insists they have somethign to say to eg). the point is, if he doesn't like the negative attention / criticism, then he needs to stop hopping from topic to topic making offensive / controversial statements. its not like theres no way to be not controversial / offensive right? tyler, jp, day9 and even idra has found a way when they're on sotg. its not just that he's controversial though, its that he's aggressively controversial / offensive and is down right wrong as well.
I'm just saying that maybe people blow it wayyyy out of proportion. He does more good than wrong; however, every time I look at this thread it's something negative. I'm quite positive he never means to seriously put down people with his jokes, but IT IS NOT the task of a random guy on the forums to try to critique Incontrol. It IS THE task of a police officer to critique the commoners of a city/town.
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On June 02 2011 15:52 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:22 Xevious wrote:On June 02 2011 11:37 Liight wrote:
Words over the internet dirrected nowhere towards you are serious buisiness. This. People are taking this shit way too seriously. Destiny isn't deterring esports whatsoever, neither is Idra or anyone else swearing or BMing on their stream. And you can guarantee that there will never ever be someone NOT getting a job because he got used to say stupid stuff from watching someones stream? If you say *fuck* all the time you will start to think using it and since it is an aggressive word your thoughts will become more aggressive than necessary. Its just a tiny step DOWN the spiral of personal qualification. Does anyone really think that any of the successful black people use the "Yo bro' ... whazzuup?" slang in their daily lives? Except for rappers that is most likely not the case. Language is the key to success and bad language skills are hard to unlearn. "Proper language" is a norm of society and since Starcraft is a pastime of youth it has a mostly very very young audience which is still forming its language skills. So it does matter how people talk on streams and the streamers are responsible for what they do. Denying that they arent hurting it is just closing your eyes because you are too lazy to change. We all have to choose between what is right and what is easy. That is very true for many things in life and this is yet another issue ...
I agree that once u get used to a specific vocabulary and language it is hard to unlearn it. english is only a second language to me (my native actually being greek) and i find that i used to speak english much better in high school than i do now, 2 years after, just because i read english literature often and had specific lessons to improve upon my vocabulary and proper english language. now apart from mixing up prepositions and shit i also have a miniscule vocabulary and i have to resort to paraphrasing or redundancies to make a point.
however, u cannot blame streams for that. it is your own duty to keep educating yourself as you grow older and have a high level vocabulary and language knowledge.
Moreover, u say that Proper Language is a norm of society and u need to speak it to be succesful. i dont see how this is relevant. surely there is truth to your statement but why should my employer care what my level of vocabulary is as long as i am fruitful and serve my job requirements (unless i come to contact with clients or have an effect on the company image where the standards matter from your language to the hair product u use). so i understand where ur point is coming from but it is based on smth trivial and anachronistic.
There used to be a time when educated people would be scientists and doctors and linguists and historians and priests all together, so the first thing you would notice about an educated man would be his language since its the first thing that you would observe. however, in this time of great and acute spesialization where it takes 4 years to study 1 branch of engineering and 10 to be an able medical doctor, i dont see why proper language should be a standard. i support constant education and evolving yourself besides what is required of you but this doesnt have to be the norm. some people might be content with what works for them and lets them go through their work load and consequently pay the bills.
sry for the WOT but i will be brief on the main subject:
each word has the weight and taste that you give to it. saying nigger or rape (since those are the 2 words that wer ementioned in yday's cast more) in a random situation means nothing. if you put malicious meanings behind them though it is smth else. same as apparently harmless words can become weapons and means to belittle others.nothing comes to me at the top of my head now (10am no sleep so i am excused ) but as a greek i have felt embarassed a lot of times on my travels and internet surfing when people constantly ask "how is the saving up going" or calling my nation a "beggar nation" (viserys anyone?).
does it hurt me after the first shock of seeing an entire nation being diminished to 3-4 words? not rly, i have self esteem and can take any hits. i was also called scrawny and "crane" as a result of my excess height when i was growing up. didnt hurt me rly. i dont think i can understand how black people feel when they are called niggers but i dont get why an educated man would be hurt by it. once u answer back and show embarassed or offended you have a become the belittled and uneducated man that this word came to describe all the years ago.
ofcourse refering to the girls by name is different. other than that sexual comments are just as harmless imo.
Mission Failed. 1st post in TL is an incoherent wall of text!!! welcome to the community 
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Funny how many people on the Destiny side of teh debate like to pretend that nigga (said when addressing friends) and nigger are the same thing.
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It makes me sad when threads degenerate in to shitfests like this 
But over something so pointless it seems even worse...
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GOD I'm like different planet as finn. Lol you can talk how you like and no1 would get offended and if they did they wouldn't make even small fuss about it. Just like "hey, calm down mate" or something like that. Everyone swears too. :D Teachers fuck that and it all the time in vocational schools.
This is what I've become to appreciate more since seeing stuff like this!
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On June 02 2011 16:17 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:55 Serpico wrote:On June 02 2011 15:52 Rabiator wrote:On June 02 2011 15:22 Xevious wrote:On June 02 2011 11:37 Liight wrote:
Words over the internet dirrected nowhere towards you are serious buisiness. This. People are taking this shit way too seriously. Destiny isn't deterring esports whatsoever, neither is Idra or anyone else swearing or BMing on their stream. And you can guarantee that there will never ever be someone NOT getting a job because he got used to say stupid stuff from watching someones stream? If you say *fuck* all the time you will start to think using it and since it is an aggressive word your thoughts will become more aggressive than necessary. Its just a tiny step DOWN the spiral of personal qualification. Does anyone really think that any of the successful black people use the "Yo bro' ... whazzuup?" slang in their daily lives? Except for rappers that is most likely not the case. Language is the key to success and bad language skills are hard to unlearn. "Proper language" is a norm of society and since Starcraft is a pastime of youth it has a mostly very very young audience which is still forming its language skills. So it does matter how people talk on streams and the streamers are responsible for what they do. Denying that they arent hurting it is just closing your eyes because you are too lazy to change. We all have to choose between what is right and what is easy. That is very true for many things in life and this is yet another issue ... If you let someone else influence you that much then it's your problem. The streams have a language warning before you click them from TL at the very least and a warning from jtv. If that isn't a enough then they should not watch the stream period. People need to be responsible for themselves. Language warning ... roflmao 1. The warning is only from TL, right? So if you reach the stream from somewhere else ... 2. Kids are influenced by everything and shaped by it, that is a fact of life. They are NOT fully in control of their own decisions and that is the reason why they are MINORS and there is a separate law for children. 3. Since when has a simple "1-click question" of "are you 18 or older?" ever deterred a teenager from watching stuff? Adults are responsible for what they do ... everything. You cant guarantee that there are zero kids watching foul language streams and it has always been the rule that "the dirtier it gets the more attractive it becomes to kids". ALWAYS. Any denial is just using the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law.
I'm sorry, I see you saying this shit in every fucking thread on the subject of language(the weapon of choice thread, casting language thread and now here). You bring up the nature of mature content and how kids are attracted to it, you've even said that it's a myth that kids are their parents responsibility(which blows my mind) and I continue to see you saying these things in every thread.
One simple question, alright so according to you... Parents can't control their kids, they can't stop them from accessing mature content, ratings don't matter because parents won't have time to do research and kids won't care anyway, mature content is more appealing to kids... I mean, this is fucking circular...
I'm utterly befuddled as to what you want, all mature content to be removed from existence? There seems to be no other way of getting around the points you raise... You always bring out the problems in the system without offering an alternative solution, I think this is because we're at the best solution possible right now with confirmation pages and ratings and warnings...
At the end of the day, the best that can be done is empowering parents with the knowledge and ability to steer their kids away from age inappropriate content. I don't know your actual solution or response, but I will say I'm absolutely against removing all age-restrictive content that is enjoyable to the appropriate audience simply because some parents aren't able to police their children. So if that's your proposed alternative, I think that's atrocious.
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On June 02 2011 15:46 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 15:39 Beef Noodles wrote:On June 02 2011 15:34 Heavenly wrote:On June 02 2011 15:28 Beef Noodles wrote:On June 02 2011 15:26 Heavenly wrote:On June 02 2011 13:47 Vendor wrote:On June 02 2011 13:39 Pekkz wrote:On June 02 2011 13:21 iNcontroL wrote:
wtf
I didn't call him retarded and idra didn't "call me out" he said "that's surprising he is generally cool"
Shut the fuck up For someone who recently have been really outspoken about the necessity for mature language in the sc2 community, you have a really bad follow through. His main points (especially in relation to the show) were on words the average person considers far worse then "fuck". If you watched the show it was really over two words and nothing much else. There was also a large argument regarding context. He just told another person to shut the fuck up, intending to fully direct his anger at another person in an unprofessional manner, after he argues about another person using words in a contextually innocent way. So apparently using slightly more innocent phrases in a spiteful manner is worse than using arguably worst words jokingly? And he can argue that this is conduct unbecoming of a community figurehead, which Destiny barely is, while he is the main person being the biggest league in North America? You are just wrong. Please stop. The n-word is not "arguably worse" than fuck. It is just worse. It is arguably worse or people wouldn't argue over it. There is obviously no point to arguing because you're set on your belief and it's already been addressed in this thread. Apparently calling one of your friends 'my nigga' is worse than angrily telling people to shut the fuck up according to the largely white community senselessly obsessed with political correctness. Keep up with your silly little argument, I don't care whatsoever what you think is "objective fact" in that particular debate, what Incontrol is doing is hypocritical. Fuck is not a word created to demean the sexually active members of society. The n-word was created to demean African Americans. If there was a group of sex-lovers who hated the word fuck, and if they felt uncomfortable/attacked whenever anyone used "fuck," then I would consider it to hold the same negative power that the n-word holds. Saying otherwise is a strange "opinion" based in your own fantastical world. Shut the fuck up is a term meant to personally demean the person it is directed to. The n-word was created to demean African Americans in one context but in other contexts it is not. Me and tons of black friends call each other "my nigga" without problem, but if I was to tell one of them to shut the fuck up in the same manner Incontrol used than they would be far more offended. While it is cute that you grant mystical powers to words intention and context is far more important when it comes to offending people. If you think that any use of the n-word is more offensive than any use of the term "shut the fuck up" YOU are the one living in your own little fantastical world clad in your righteous armor of political correctness.
But the origin of the word "nigger" is much more derogatory. It may be fine to you but to society in general any use of the word "nigger" is automatically inflammatory, whereas there are acceptable uses of "fuck", such as when describing sex.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
I was shocked that Incontrol had the audacity to group EG with mouz and dignitas as if they are somehow on the same level of skill, his constant advertising for EG is getting tiresome. They have demuslim and idra and a bunch of americans and he feels like their combined skill is somehow comparable to dominant players like Sjow, thorzain, naniwa, select, mana, hasuobs etc
moreover i found the disparaging comments he made towards "-_-" downright disgusting, I think he has really got too big for his boots treating everyone that disagrees with him like shit and just lumping them into the "random hater" group like some elitist. As others in the thread have said incontrol is a niche entertainer and commentator and would do well to remember that...
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EPT
