On June 02 2011 02:28 Galleon.frigate wrote: Have to say, Jibba just won the discission
SC2 (and bw) are a niche group, and frankly one of the nicest and groups out there... we are what we are... why are we always telling ourselves to refrom and grow up so that outsider can accept us?
Really? Be who we are, enjoy what we do, and how. Yes, think about it and be self aware as well but really, but be who the fuck you and and enjoy yourself while raping some nerds online.
This point is pretty poignant. I think it's what a lot of people are coming around to. There's no reason to mold ourselves in a palatable bites for the masses. Let's let SC grow by people coming to us, instead of the other way around.
Sponsors/pros might feel differently because of the money involved but I think the numbers are with us.
while you represent the sponser, yes act accordingly...
you ever think that people that watch nascar or bowling or whatever think that need to change who are so thatt advertisers are MORE LIKELY TO SELL TO THEM? thats the thing that blows my mind.
sure thats a big issue for those who make the most from sponsers and want to make more (and want to see others in sc2 world make more, see the scene get bigger there is nothing wrong with that). but sc2 fans are sc2 fans, it is either worth the money for our eyeballs or it's not. I don't think that the halo group or the cod group are worried about this, maybe they are but somehow I'd bet heavy they are not.
People don't understand gamer culture, thats fine they don't get it... they didn't get punks in the 70s or rock and roll in 50s, in 20 years we'll look back at this and laugh at how innocent we really were. And one day gamers will expode all over the mainstream (not as the 14 year boy with the hat backwards we are see as now), but that will happen because the mainstream will be gamers, not because gamers became mainstream
edit, I mean shit it's already happening, you grandma plays farmville, the avg age of gamers is in the late 20 early 30s.
Even if EG is the reason incontrol left SOTG... who cares? I mean if I was running a team I would want my players fully committed to my team and nothing else. I would want them to spend all their free time practicing and the rest of their time promoting my team or helping with it's endeavours...
You guys are idiots for getting mad at EG.
And what's with all the incontrol hate? He finished 4th in a tournament that featured guys like IdrA, TLO, Huk (all of whom have had some success in korea) and a ton of other big names. He finished ahead of all of these guys. He easily has as many accomplishments as TLO (his 4th at MLG is arguably more of an accomplishment than anything TLO has done). But I doubt anyone would ever get on TLOs ass and say he hasn't accomplished anything.
Man you guys are hypocritical. According to some of you, the only people that have accomplished anything in the NA scene are select, kiwikaki, huk and IdrA...
On June 02 2011 02:28 Galleon.frigate wrote: Have to say, Jibba just won the discission
SC2 (and bw) are a niche group, and frankly one of the nicest and groups out there... we are what we are... why are we always telling ourselves to refrom and grow up so that outsider can accept us?
Really? Be who we are, enjoy what we do, and how. Yes, think about it and be self aware as well but really, but be who the fuck you and and enjoy yourself while raping some nerds online.
This point is pretty poignant. I think it's what a lot of people are coming around to. There's no reason to mold ourselves in a palatable bites for the masses. Let's let SC grow by people coming to us, instead of the other way around.
Sponsors/pros might feel differently because of the money involved but I think the numbers are with us.
while you represent the sponser, yes act accordingly...
you ever think that people that watch nascar or bowling or whatever think that need to change who are so thatt advertisers are MORE LIKELY TO SELL TO THEM? thats the thing that blows my mind.
sure thats a big issue for those who make the most from sponsers and want to make more (and want to see others in sc2 world make more, see the scene get bigger there is nothing wrong with that). but sc2 fans are sc2 fans, it is either worth the money for our eyeballs or it's not. I don't think that the halo group or the cod group are worried about this, maybe they are but somehow I'd bet heavy they are not.
People don't understand gamer culture, thats fine they don't get it... they didn't get punks in the 70s or rock and rock in 50s, in 20 years we'll look back at this and laugh at how innocent we really were. And one day gamers will expode all over the mainstream (not as the 14 year boy with the hat backwards we are see as now), but that will happen because the mainstream will be gamers, not because gamers became mainstream
But if we don't conform to middle american values, then how will we be exploited for advertising revenue!
"Most people who post in those chats are complete idiots, I can say that in full confidence" next sentence "I feel like it's a very immature perspective to be like "Well, I just say what the fuck I feel""
I don't understand. Perhaps something is lost in translation.
On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote: I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter.
Calm down. I understand where you're coming from, but you don't know about my competitive background. Just because I'm not a progamer doesn't mean I haven't been succesful in my life. And just because you angry, doesn't mean you can proclaim that my perspective is irrelevant.
Let's use a sports analogy. If Lebron James loses in the finals, do you think he'll be happy with his 2nd place finish? Do you think Derrick Rose is happy with his 3rd/4th place finish? And if they were, it would certainly speak to how good they think they are (not the best), and what their goals were (not to be a champion).
Am I claiming to be a fucking lebron James of SC2? Where the fuck do you go presuming everyone has to have the results of the absolute best player in the game and possibly ever to be posting "good results" ?
btw I stand by the fact you know nothing about SC2 accomplishments and so far you are solidifying that stance. You are a generic spectator. You only consider a 1st place finish a good finish. Therefor you are irrelevant on the discussion.
Fair enough. We have different opinions on what is an accomplishment, and as an actual competitor you have a perspective that is different than mine. I will say, however, that just because that perspective is different ,and arguably more knowledgeable, doesn't mean its objective.
Sometimes players will be too hard on themselves. Going back to Starcraft, Jinro might feel like a loser because he hasn't won the GSL. Alternatively, some players might try to rationalize their failures. For example, Lastshadow had a high MLG finish once, and in trying to vindicate the time he's spent playing Starcraft 2, he might consider himself an accomplished player.
Are you serious with the statement that 4th in a tournament with top players \ teams isn't a fantastic achievement ?
That's exactly what I think. I also think it's hypocritical that Incontrol says I don't have a valid perspective on what is an accomplishment. In the very show this thread is based on, he's repeatedly stated that it's unfair to attack himself or Tyler for being worse than the koreans they criticize, but then he does precisely the same thing to me.
Teamliquid wouldn't be very popular if everytime a poster tried to commentate on player that was better than them, they were shot down.
You posted HALF of what I said and postulated like it was my opinion or what I said, shame on you.
No, I said that tyler and I don't have to be better than MC to criticize him because WE ARE STILL PROGAMERS. WE SPEND 10000000000000x MORE TIME WITH THIS GAME THAN YOU + 10 of you closest friends.
That is NOT the same as you, some completely random hater who ALWAYS posts about how bad I am stating once again that you think you are some kind of an authority on the subject.
Do NOT speak for me in the future. You have an inability to consider my thoughts or opinions in anything but some hugely tainted light and it is getting old.
Sorry, but when do you have to be included in a group to comment on the group? The majority of sports casters are not professional athletes, so their opinion is ipso facto meaningless? Ecomonomists aren't necessarily bankers or businessmen. Political theorists and commentators usually aren't politicians. But you are saying a person cannot make a meanigful observation without being included within the group and therefore have not been granted special authority? Nonsense.
Gamers who are not pros can make informed and educated observations and comments. Knowledge and application are not mutually inclusive.
There is a reason the very same panel you use as an example is not comprised of a bunch of random people that have no experience within the field. They are ALL former coaches, players or something... even if their only claim to knowledge is that they are professional analysts that spend all day viewing games and crunching the numbers.
You actually shot yourself in the foot with your own example.
Only if your assumption that no one on the TL forums does, in fact, do exactly that then yes you would be correct. The problem is that you have not verified this assumption and there could be one or possibly more people who spend the vast majority of their time watching and analyzing pro replays/streams, progamer interviews, tournament VODs, etc. Granted, the majority of forum posters are idiots in their high school computer lab who don't even play the game on school nights. All I am trying to say is that you shouldn't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bath water and make a sweeping statement that rejects every opinion based solely on their status of pro or casual gamer.
I apologize in advance for bringing this retarded shit up again, but iNcontroL's argument was so asinine as well as Destiny's counter-argument that I feel it needs addressing. First, iNcontroL isn't a role model. He called himself, and the "faces of ESPORTS, that on WoC and I just about raped a kitten out of frustration because it was such a stupid and pretentious thing to say. He is an entertainer in an ultra niche entertainment industry market. Whether SC2 actually goes mainstream (which it won't) is neither here nor there, but it needs to be clarified that he's an entertainer first and foremost, even as a player.
The idea of censoring entertainers is nothing new, as it's been happening to comedians for at least decades. Unfunny people tell them what topics are off limits, regardless of context, without understanding that absurdity and personal pain are usually what drive comedy. That's what makes Richard Pryor a god and Jeff Foxworthy a fucking idiot. Deep down, I think iNcontroL knows this. After all, he's a pretty funny guy and he knows that shit like "DICK THE GROUND" is pretty funny, but he's been blinded by the fact that he's the "face" of something and has to sell it. And that makes sense in a lot of cases, and on that point even Destiny agrees. When you go into a job interview, you change your presentation so that it is more formal and less offensive/edgy than a casual setting. But that's where things fall apart, because Destiny isn't interviewing to impress people, he already has the job.
IdrA's fans giggle like crazy when he calls someone a 'faggot' and Destiny's love 'baneling rape.' So it's not a popularity/mainstream argument anymore, it's become an insanely backwards plea that the act of rape is so heinous that its verbal representation cannot be used in any non-serious manner, even by entertainers. It's the same with 'retard', 'nigger' and 'faggot' which have historically demeaning purposes. Not only does his ideal situation create a bizarre ever-expanding black hole of words that need to be ignored, for fear of aggravating someone in a personally charged way, but it ignores the nature and purpose of comedy in the first place. Comedy highlights absurdity and allows people to detach themselves from pain.
On WoC, iNc said you wouldn't find 'rape' funny if you visited a battered women's shelter, but I have, and I've done Take Back The Night and worked with rape survivors, and I still think 'rape' can be a funny word. And so did some of them! Not only is iNc imposing artificial limitations on how people should use words, but he's doing it on how people should feel about them as well. It's the same as telling Jews not to laugh at The Producers or that soldiers can't laugh when Colbert makes jokes about war and dying, because those are SERIOUS SUBJECTS WITH DEEP RAMIFICATIONS AND ARE THEREFORE NOT FUNNY. Except that's what makes them ripe for humor, though.
To me, it's actually more offensive to presume to speak for other people or when someone claims to be my representative. I hope most of us can agree that a bunch of white, male suburban nerds discussing the ethics of using 'nigger' and 'rape' is actually more offensive than the words themselves. It would be slightly hilarious if we gave in, however, since it's not like white middle class men have been given enough opportunities to set the status quo.
Destiny is an entertainer and he might not be catering to a diverse audience with personal connections to those words, but it doesn't matter. He's using them in a non-hateful way which he finds funny, and that's all he needs. The merit of his jokes/humor is irrelevant. The SUPER SERIOUS argument is silly and there's no justified reason to place words in an off-limit category for society. Personally? Sure, do what you want. But for everyone else to use? Fuck off and give me my words back. There might be some vague social obligation for Destiny to change his tongue, but there's no ethical or logical reasoning behind it.
And before anyone says these are "special cases," no, they're fucking not. iNcontroL said the word is off limits and not funny.
Implicit in the argument for E-Sports is that it should be fit for consumption by the public in order to grow. The links you offered are of television shows or comedy acts. Starcraft isn't scripted or written by a team of writers. When you post baseball or basketball broadcasts where they say "OMG did you see LeBron utterly rape Dirk with that crossover?!" then you may have a point.
Joe Rogan does it for MMA. Everything being talked about is part of the entertainment industry. There is no explicit difference between a pro gamer like Destiny and a comedian and, in fact, most of his fans would tell you that they watch his stream because of its comedic value.
You can argue that all sports are entertainment in the way you do. I don't think the MMA comparison rings true with Starcraft2. What incontrol is saying that is if we want to move forward as a community and bring more casual viewers people should be more aware of what they say. You'll still never find a basketball, baseball, soccer, golf, tennis, etc. etc. clip where they use ANY of the words you're talking about. But your youtube videos having people use the word rape have nothing to do with this debate.
Yes, that's exactly what all sports are. Athletes aren't paid by virtue of being athletic, they're paid because they entertain us well. It's precisely how advertising works.
I already addressed the rest of your post. If you want to argue that you shouldn't use those terms when selling to mainstream/popular audiences, then fine. Even Destiny agrees on that. When you go to a job interview, you sell yourself. NBA players only occasionally curse and use those words when giving press conferences. But in their personal time? In private practices or at a neighborhood court against friends? Of course they do. That's what Destiny's stream is.
Of course you can use those words and be a fucking dick or misogynistic asshole while using them, but you can also use them in an intelligent and poignant way.
On June 01 2011 22:22 flodeskum wrote: I personally don't like people censoring their language for anything. But I do understand that it is an American thing and cursing is sort of a big deal over there. So I can fully support them doing that at sponsored events or tournament casts.
However I completely disagree with incontrol saying that destiny has a responsibility to do the same on his personal stream because he now represents the community. Who decides when you cross over from angry guy streaming starcraft to community representitive? Should all streamers be censoring themselves or only the popular ones? In my opinion the contents of a personal stream represents the streamer and nobody else.
The only exception I would make is the word nigger. I just don't think a white person should be using that word (cue the "omg black people can say it, why can't I??? hAXX!?"). I don't think it is a big deal for the decendants of people that were literally owned to own a single word. Just let them have it. But feel free to say anything else
Fuck you nigger I am black, so its ok to use an "lightning" word
Naw, I'm not really black, I'm so white that CRT radiation appears to be coming from my skin. The concept that words are restricted based on race is stupid and is in fact racist. If any person says i cant say something because of the color of my skin that is racist. I don't give a fuck if a person calls me a cracker, and that they authentically think i am lesser of a human being because I'm white. I will not be offended by being called a cracker, i will not care, because i know its not true. The truth of the matter is that black people shouldn't care either, because they should know its not true.
Hell, i call my gay friends flaming faggots jokingly because they don't take themselves seriously, and i actually asked if it offended them, and they don't care because i'm actually comfortable with them being gay, and I'm not doing it in a way to hurt them or degrade them for being gay.
Calling someone a nigger does not instantly degrade them, and if you think it does then society still has a long way to go, its the intent of the speaker that makes a word like nigger bad, good, or neutral.
It's easy for some white skinny nerd posting on an internet forum to post his thoughts on the word "ni**er" and "gay". Just because you have an anecdote about your gay friend doesn't make that language alright for general consumption. The crux of the debate isn't about personal preference, but appealing to a larger audience. Because in your sheltered gaming lifestyle you feel it's ok for those words to be used, doesn't mean the general public does. When they start using the words you write about on broadcast television you may have a point. The american public has already had this debate decades ago. On a purely philosophical level I agree with you, but incontrol is right - if you want to appeal to a bigger audience you need to think before you speak.
IMO this whole debate is borne from the fact the main demographic on TL is 17-19 yr olds who really haven't been out in the real world and are still dealing with their rebellion in general. Rebellion from authoritative figures such as parents,teachers, etc.. Incontrol is getting hated on because he's the authoritative figure in this debate who is trying to help the community, however some people can't see through their blind rage...
Have you seen mainstream media? I think you guys are forgetting that the mainstream as of late is extremely offensive and provocative. We should not be trying to appeal to 30+ because it would be a waste of resources.
The issue is marketability, is starcraft 2's chances to become a main stream success inhibited by streamers who use the words rape, nigger, faggot, and gay? I doubt it, I think the market has a place for people who speak like that, but not at professional events. Destiny is making a living from being provocative, while day9 is not that controversial or provocative and is making a living that way. The market can obviously accept it in its current state.
Now here's something to think about, what if there was a player in the community that was truly racist, and talked about hating black people all the time on his stream, and about how women should be second class citizens, etc. etc. more offensive shit. Do you think he would be accepted in the community, if their was someone like that? Hell no, of course not, because that straight up hurts almost everyone that we could possibly market too, and that is just a terrible person. No one wants to be associated with a racist and sexist. Ive seen sports shows, they have professional clean cut sport shows and news, and they also have sports shows where they do use vulgar language and they go in depth, and their are people that watch that stuff too.
I think they can co-exist within the market, because they already are. Also, what demographic would we turn away that we actually have a chance of getting? I mean, do people realize that we are playing a video game, and thus the potential demographics that we can appeal to are already lowered, and also tend to be gamers. I think the most likely demographic that we are going to appeal to are the console players 13+ that already understand the context of words like rape. The concept that starcraft 2 Is gonna appeal to non gamers in mass is far fetched to me, so it feels like this proper language bullshit won't benefit us much at all or possibly hurt us because some people wont be able to go find contents like destinies.
What "mainstream media" are you talking about? Find me any legitimate quote from a mainstream media outlet in which they use any of the words you mention without qualifying it as hate speech. I don't think you know what is considered "mainstream media". Do you consider ABC mainstream media? Have you seen the campaign being run during primetime television telling people NOT to use the word gay as an insult? I really don't know what shows/programs your talking about where that kind of language is used, but I'd love to see some clips.
Chris Rock on HBO bigger and blacker, a very mainstream actor and comedian.(also did you know, the certain words are excluded from standard cable due to broadcast regulations)
Also I'm not saying that tournaments become people making "vulgar jokes" I'm saying that they can co exist like they do now.
They both exist, its not the predominant thing, But the use of nigger is part of mainstream culture, and appears from time to time in mainstream media. Oh yeah, and hating gay people is mainstream under religious context, I'm sure you have seen that in the news.
Btw incontrol... You have a serious elitist attitude that puts people off more than offensive words ever would.
You think any professional NBA player (or athlete) would ever say "I don't listen to the fans because they're stupid and they don't have as much experience with basketball as I do"?
Insulting the general community, whose support you're hoping to gain, is probably why there is much more incontrol hate than there is for any other progamer.
On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote: I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter.
Calm down. I understand where you're coming from, but you don't know about my competitive background. Just because I'm not a progamer doesn't mean I haven't been succesful in my life. And just because you angry, doesn't mean you can proclaim that my perspective is irrelevant.
Let's use a sports analogy. If Lebron James loses in the finals, do you think he'll be happy with his 2nd place finish? Do you think Derrick Rose is happy with his 3rd/4th place finish? And if they were, it would certainly speak to how good they think they are (not the best), and what their goals were (not to be a champion).
Allow me to use another analogy.
My football team is Tottenham Hotspur in the Premier League. In the 2009/2010 season they finished fourth. And I was fucking ECSTATIC. Fourth in what is probably the most prestigious league in the world? Above teams like Man City and Liverpool, coming within a hairs breadth of Arsenal? BEATING Arsenal and Chelsea along the way? Fourth was a fucking dream.
Is that because Spurs are a lesser team than Chelsea, who would be unhappy with 4th? Yeah sure. Does that make the achievement any lesser for Tottenham? Er, no. It's still an amazing result for any team except for maybe 3. Being a lesser team than Chelsea and Man United is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, if you're ahead of everyone else.
The analogy is that for, say, IdrA, 4th is a disappointment. For iNcontroL it's astoundingly good. Is it because he's a lesser player than IdrA. Yep. Don't think he'd disagree with that (at least not right now, maybe after his wins his MLG ). Is being proud of 4th at MLG mean that he is a SECOND RATE player? Fuck no.
On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote: I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter.
Calm down. I understand where you're coming from, but you don't know about my competitive background. Just because I'm not a progamer doesn't mean I haven't been succesful in my life. And just because you angry, doesn't mean you can proclaim that my perspective is irrelevant.
Let's use a sports analogy. If Lebron James loses in the finals, do you think he'll be happy with his 2nd place finish? Do you think Derrick Rose is happy with his 3rd/4th place finish? And if they were, it would certainly speak to how good they think they are (not the best), and what their goals were (not to be a champion).
Am I claiming to be a fucking lebron James of SC2? Where the fuck do you go presuming everyone has to have the results of the absolute best player in the game and possibly ever to be posting "good results" ?
btw I stand by the fact you know nothing about SC2 accomplishments and so far you are solidifying that stance. You are a generic spectator. You only consider a 1st place finish a good finish. Therefor you are irrelevant on the discussion.
Fair enough. We have different opinions on what is an accomplishment, and as an actual competitor you have a perspective that is different than mine. I will say, however, that just because that perspective is different ,and arguably more knowledgeable, doesn't mean its objective.
Sometimes players will be too hard on themselves. Going back to Starcraft, Jinro might feel like a loser because he hasn't won the GSL. Alternatively, some players might try to rationalize their failures. For example, Lastshadow had a high MLG finish once, and in trying to vindicate the time he's spent playing Starcraft 2, he might consider himself an accomplished player.
Are you serious with the statement that 4th in a tournament with top players \ teams isn't a fantastic achievement ?
That's exactly what I think. I also think it's hypocritical that Incontrol says I don't have a valid perspective on what is an accomplishment. In the very show this thread is based on, he's repeatedly stated that it's unfair to attack himself or Tyler for being worse than the koreans they criticize, but then he does precisely the same thing to me.
Teamliquid wouldn't be very popular if everytime a poster tried to commentate on player that was better than them, they were shot down.
Personally, I think you do have a completely valid perspective. Validity and invalidity generally don't pertain to opinions. I also think your (valid) perspective is insane, but becoming more common within the community. Let me put translate this type of perspective to (hopefully) explain why it is that your post lacks common sense.
Pretend for a moment that I believe Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player of all time, and none after him have even come close. I can draw my line of where "good" players are and where "bad" players are, and because it's opinion, no one can tell me I'm objectively wrong. So, let's say that I decide Michael Jordan was a "good" player, that the league MVP each year is a "decent" player, and that everyone else who has ever touched a basketball other than those select few are shit. I weigh more than 250 pounds, am white, and am not a hair taller than 6 feet. I don't play basketball professionally or coach basketball on any level. Because my opinion is my own, no one can tell me my judgements are objectively wrong - but doesn't the fact that this person could walk up to kobe bryant and say "man kobe, you're pretty shitty at basketball, why don't you practice some huh? What? Don't tell me you're *proud* of those skills? *SCOFF*" sound just a tad insane to you?
How is this viewpoint different from yours - other than the fact that the person above doesn't have anonymity to hide behind once he puts himself out there to say something ludicrous?
On June 02 2011 02:58 Junichi wrote: Seriously, watching those players slowly getting drunk and talking about stuff is somehow very highly entertaining... :D Love it... :D
For the final SOTG with iNcontrol I was expecting a lot of laughs and reminiscing over the past year. Instead iNcontrol tries to make the show serious and discuss serious issues such as girls in Starcraft and how casters need to watch their language..............on a show with everyone drunk.
I think this last show reflects how much iNcontrol has changed since he took on his NASL caster job. It is obvious why he is leaving. The new iNcontrol does not mesh with SOTG.
On June 02 2011 01:16 iNcontroL wrote: I'm sorry if you think 4th place isn't an accomplishment. I'm sorry if you think it is telling that I am happy with that finish.
I will comfort myself by knowing you aren't anywhere near a progamer and literally have 0 grasp of what it takes to place that high in anything competitive. So I know without a shadow of doubt that you are 100% a completely irrelevant perspective on the matter.
Calm down. I understand where you're coming from, but you don't know about my competitive background. Just because I'm not a progamer doesn't mean I haven't been succesful in my life. And just because you angry, doesn't mean you can proclaim that my perspective is irrelevant.
Let's use a sports analogy. If Lebron James loses in the finals, do you think he'll be happy with his 2nd place finish? Do you think Derrick Rose is happy with his 3rd/4th place finish? And if they were, it would certainly speak to how good they think they are (not the best), and what their goals were (not to be a champion).
Allow me to use another analogy.
My football team is Tottenham Hotspur in the Premier League. In the 2009/2010 season they finished fourth. And I was fucking ECSTATIC. Fourth in what is probably the most prestigious league in the world? Above teams like Man City and Liverpool, coming within a hairs breadth of Arsenal? BEATING Arsenal and Chelsea along the way? Fourth was a fucking dream.
Is that because Spurs are a lesser team than Chelsea, who would be unhappy with 4th? Yeah sure. Does that make the achievement any lesser for Tottenham? Er, no. It's still an amazing result for any team except for maybe 3. Being a lesser team than Chelsea and Man United is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, if you're ahead of everyone else.
The analogy is that for, say, IdrA, 4th is a disappointment. For iNcontroL it's astoundingly good. Is it because he's a lesser player than IdrA. Yep. Don't think he'd disagree with that (at least not right now, maybe after his wins his MLG ). Is being proud of 4th at MLG mean that he is a SECOND RATE player? Fuck no.
After that win did your team then shit all over other teams that you didn't beat but placed lower in ranking, and then hide behind that ONE 4th place win every time someone critisized your play?
I don't know if this is right context to say this. I just feel like whatever InControl have said lately is just to praise the organizations that he works for (EG, NASL) and talk down on the competitors (GSL, GOMTV). To be honest, when you say something that is driven by monetary matters, please stop using the word "Community" in it.
If Incontrol left Stog to open a similar show for EG. Things are just more clear to me about him. Maybe, it is true, after all it is all money related. Maybe this community has become so big and promising that people see opportunity in it. If that is the case, you do not represent the community, you represent the organizations you work for, please stop saying like your are the voice of the community.
EPT
). Is being proud of 4th at MLG mean that he is a SECOND RATE player? Fuck no.
