EPTIdrA, National ESL's IEM Cup #3 Issues - Page 7
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ROOTdrewbie
Canada1392 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:27 UniversalSnip wrote: What you said should be allowed includes what most people would consider harassment. I don't know whether idra harassed anyone, I'm taking issue with your definition. i would agree with you if he was actually talking to them.. but he was talking to his friend. Thusly it should qualify as hearsay and even if it reaches the ears/eyes of ESL people it certainly is not harassment. | ||
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:20 travis wrote: and that rule is ridiculous. the fuck does their jurisdiction get to apply to the rest of your life I've agreed with 99% of everything else you've said but this, no. As the part that organizes everything they can rightly expect you not to critizise or spoil what they do. You see this in every sports, football players are for instance not allowed to critizise referee's after the games are played in any public forum without fear of a penalty for it. Why should e-sports be any different? It's not as if they are punishing him beyond their sphere of influence they are simply saying, critizise us as much as you want, but if you do, you are not welcome to participate. It's the same in real life, shit talk a friend, and he has every right not to invite you to his party. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:21 Stratos_speAr wrote: Again, that's not proper justification. If it was, athletes and progamers would be going off left and right at perceived injustices. There's a zero tolerance policy in almost all professional events for a reason. Officials are punished for baiting players in just about every sport I can think of. | ||
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FrogOfWar
Germany1406 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:22 travis wrote: oh ok that sounds more reasonable, but doesn't this mean if he is actually communicating with ESL people. not like, with his friend and then that person posts the chat log The wording is a little fuzzy around the "connection" part. I agree, if it's really a private conversation which he didn't know would be published, he shouldn't be liable for that. But he said "tell them I said they're fucking idiots", so ... | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:29 HopLight wrote: I've agreed with 99% of everything else you've said but this, no. As the part that organizes everything they can rightly expect you not to critizise or spoil what they do. You see this in every sports, football players are for instance not allowed to critizise referee's after the games are played in any public forum without fear of a penalty for it. Why should e-sports be any different? It's not as if they are punishing him beyond their sphere of influence they are simply saying, critizise us as much as you want, but if you do, you are not welcome to participate. It's the same in real life, shit talk a friend, and he has every right not to invite you to his party. dude, of course he has every right to do what he wants. of course they have every right to do what they want if it's in their rules. what I am talking about is if it is actually a good rule. anyways, it seems the rule isn't actually about talking shit about the ESL, it's about talking shit TO them. On August 17 2010 05:31 FrogOfWar wrote: The wording is a little fuzzy around the "connection" part. I agree, if it's really a private conversation which he didn't know would be published, he shouldn't be liable for that. But he said "tell them I said they're fucking idiots", so ... ok I agree with you in principle but in technicality I think that would be hearsay what im wondering is if he posted something like "the ESL are incompetent baboons" in a blog on TL, would he get penalized for that? just curious about how these rules work | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
You could write a huge letter apologizing for the issue, but you cannot blame IdrA for what happened. Take the responsability. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:30 Grond wrote: Officials are punished for baiting players in just about every sport I can think of. ...So? That has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion about IdrA's BM. Or are you continuing to try and justify IdrA's BM with "two wrongs make a right"? You could write a huge letter apologizing for the issue, but you cannot blame IdrA for what happened. Take the responsability. Quite the hypocritical sentences there. How can you say this and not expect IdrA to take responsibility for being BM? | ||
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
IdrA is a big name who tournaments need and that should just be expected. | ||
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midway
United States123 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:26 Hapahauli wrote: I came in here expecting some resolution, transparency or accountability... silly me. What exactly does this post even resolve? It refuses to acknowledge that Certain ESL Staff Members jumped the gun and banned IdrA last night. It took the the entire night for them to resolve this issue. This post doest even acknowledge the appallingly short notice IdrA received for his rematch, or official "casters" who BM'd one of the players and got him banned when said player refused to let him cast. Pitiful. Many of this issues are answered. IdrA's travel plans made it impossible to give him more notice of reschedule. Many of the comments and reactions to last night's drama were unfortunate and not necessary, on both sides. We have admitted to confusion and issues related to this. Again you are making the mistake like many others of merging two very separate issues. The PP and the rescheduling are not the same issue and as such should be taken that way. | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:29 HopLight wrote: I've agreed with 99% of everything else you've said but this, no. As the part that organizes everything they can rightly expect you not to critizise or spoil what they do. You see this in every sports, football players are for instance not allowed to critizise referee's after the games are played in any public forum without fear of a penalty for it. Why should e-sports be any different? It's not as if they are punishing him beyond their sphere of influence they are simply saying, critizise us as much as you want, but if you do, you are not welcome to participate. It's the same in real life, shit talk a friend, and he has every right not to invite you to his party. same could be applied for dumb rules. you host a tourney, you can do whatever you want but that doesn't exempt you from the scorn of the community. idra might be a dick at times but that's just idra. i think it shows a severe lack of professionalism to ban a top player from your tournament because he called you a name. people drawing parallels to other sports should really stop because i personally find the honesty that's present on the internet refreshing, i don't want our community to turn into some huge PC-fest where players and influential people aren't able to speak their mind. | ||
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midway
United States123 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:34 Ndugu wrote: IdrA should be able to do whatever the hell he wants as long as he is as good as he is. That time of attititude is expected from the best rock stars, the best athlets, etc. If a B-lister pulls that shit, knock them out. IdrA is a big name who tournaments need and that should just be expected. Honestly we don't run tournament for IdrA. We run tournaments for the entire audience. I'm 100% more curious how many players sign up then who signs up. 375 people signed up to play on ESL last night. | ||
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:34 Ndugu wrote: IdrA should be able to do whatever the hell he wants as long as he is as good as he is. That time of attititude is expected from the best rock stars, the best athlets, etc. If a B-lister pulls that shit, knock them out. IdrA is a big name who tournaments need and that should just be expected. That's illogical, to say the least. You want any disruptive behaviour to be accepted depending on the skill of the player? Bad manners are bad manners whether you're in copper or you're winning the WCG. | ||
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theSAiNT
United States726 Posts
Imagine a sport where a referee incites a shouting match with a player. That's what it looks like here. | ||
Chill
Calgary26003 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:37 midway wrote: Honestly we don't run tournament for IdrA. We run tournaments for the entire audience. I'm 100% more curious how many players sign up then who signs up. 375 people signed up to play on ESL last night. That's a strange attitude considering I, and I am guessing the majority of the audience, don't care about 350 of the 375 players. | ||
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Excomm
United States152 Posts
Still it is clear from what I am reading that it is the fault of the tournament organization for not being able to deal with this issue. If it is your true intention to cast every match, regardless of the effect of the observers on the game, then you should have imposed the ban on IdrA. If you are willing to bend the rules for popular gamers, then you might as well allow those players to send you the replays of the games they play because this kind of situation is bound to happen over and over again especially in the first few months of the games release. As a last point about casters. So far, from what I have seen there are way too many casters being allowed into tournament matches. In many cases the casters are causing games to lag, preventing the tournaments from running smoothly. As a caster, it should be your responsibility to ensure that you do not lag on the server the game is being hosted on. Tournament organizers should be limiting broadcasts to 3 or 4 languages from reliable casters and have referees in place to ensure that popular players (i.e. those being casted) have their requests honored during the early rounds of the tournament. Notice how the popular players are often 1-2 rounds behind? It is always the same reason. . . restarting the game over and over. There is often the issue of people "claiming" to be casters joining the game as well. This is solved simply by providing a list of casters with IDs the same way the players are listed. Making all of the observers referees is also something that should be standardized to prevent harassment during casting. It's still early, give the tournament organizers a break for now, but the organization I have seen thus far has ranged from acceptable to terrible tournament to tournament. I think it will improve over time. | ||
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CaptnIgnit
United States192 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:34 midway wrote: Many of this issues are answered. IdrA's travel plans made it impossible to give him more notice of reschedule. Many of the comments and reactions to last night's drama were unfortunate and not necessary, on both sides. We have admitted to confusion and issues related to this. Again you are making the mistake like many others of merging two very separate issues. The PP and the rescheduling are not the same issue and as such should be taken that way. Man you guys are terrible at PR, way to ruin your image. All we all want is you to say "Look, we fucked up. Here is why...blah blah blah...We're sorry we let down our fans, we're going to do whatever it takes to make sure something like this doesn't happen again." EVERYONE here knows you guys fucked up, avoiding the issue isn't going to help you. | ||
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Oleksandr
United States227 Posts
Time to man up. | ||
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
ESL, you are doing a bad job. We aren't telling you this because we don't like you (like how you don't like idra), we are telling you it because you are doing a bad job. Just hire day9, rename yourselves day9esl, and have him take care of your tournaments and cast the games. He did a way better job. | ||
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theSAiNT
United States726 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:34 midway wrote: Many of this issues are answered. IdrA's travel plans made it impossible to give him more notice of reschedule. Many of the comments and reactions to last night's drama were unfortunate and not necessary, on both sides. We have admitted to confusion and issues related to this. Again you are making the mistake like many others of merging two very separate issues. The PP and the rescheduling are not the same issue and as such should be taken that way. You have addressed the penalty for breach of rules by a player. You have NOT addressed the poor conduct of your casters and admins. You have not even acknowledged that any mistake was made by them. SC2 is young. You are trying to establish yourself as a 'professional body' with a new audience. This is NOT the way to go about it. | ||
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