EPTIdrA, National ESL's IEM Cup #3 Issues - Page 8
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
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Argolis
Canada211 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
I haven't seen quotes on the exact situation, there are of course exceptions such as where the referee is taunting or downright insulting the player himself so my post does not specifically apply to this situation. It's simply meant to show my opinion on situations like this in a more general setting. About casters being in games there are many things to consider. First of all the rule that a player must allow a caster is a good rule. The trick is in the enforcement of it. This is a good rule because players are unpredictable and you are dealing with 400 unpredictable potentially loose cannons. An organization must at all time keep the power of deciding whether people should be allowed to watch in their own hands. sometimes players are reasonable and only complain when there is lag, other times players behave like kids and do unreasonable things such as complaining about lag when there is none, simply for the fact that they are tilted or dislike a certain obs or caster. Tournament rules have to be made in such a manner that they account for the worst possible situation. Then when situations arise a tournament organizer may opt not to apply the rules because he feels this is more fair. So when you establish the original rule about players being forced to allow casters is a good one we arrive at the core of the problem in this tournament. That is a player with a subjectively bad attitude being faced with a potentially unreasonable referee who can refer to the rules to protect himself. This all could have been avoided if players would simply treat people with more respect. That does not mean he was wrong in his complaints at all do not misunderstand my point, but for large organizations such as the ESL it is very hard to completely control every single link in their company structure. In this giant of an organization you are basically guaranteed people are going to make mistakes and if players don't care about being decent others they should start caring about being decent in order to help themselves. | ||
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scottyyy
United Kingdom796 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:45 Argolis wrote: What did BigT say/do that has everyone up in arms? He's constantly causing trouble in every tournament he casts in. He's pissing off viewers by BMing players, he's pissing off casters by telling the tournament organisers the tournament is his and they can't cast. He even cheats by telling Huk what his opponent is doing, but that wasn't in the IEM. | ||
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midway
United States123 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:39 Chill wrote: That's a strange attitude considering I, and I am guessing the majority of the audience, don't care about 350 of the 375 players. We aren't at the point yet were 25 players will be enough to support the rest of the community. We need 100,000's of people active and involved making this community bigger. At the end of the day its about the size of the community, that opens the doors for the future. | ||
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CaptnIgnit
United States192 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:45 Argolis wrote: What did BigT say/do that has everyone up in arms? He complained to the admins about not being able to cast IdrA's matches when the admins told him he would be able to. (IMO, more ESL's fault than BigT's. Who gives a caster permission to cast specific games and then doesn't inform the player?) He then attempted some BM humor at IdrA that everyone took out of context. He then attempted some more humor in the TL IRC and got quoted out of context (saying he is the one that issued the bans etc) | ||
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
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Frieder
Italy231 Posts
@midway.The audience does not care about most of your 375 players. Players like Idra are the reason people follow your tournament and watch your stream. | ||
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Negative
United States13 Posts
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:46 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Harassment out of the game is as serious as in-game. The situation is still that you're insulting referees or admins, something which under no conditions should be allowed. Wherever it happens it has the same impact and the same result of undermining ones authority. If you want to play in a tournament you are to treat the referees with respect. Mistakes do happen, this is something people need to learn to respect as well. If everyone insulted here on TL every time a mistake was made nobody on the TL staff would still be working here. Most of us are adults and most of us would like to see StarCraft flourish as a professional sport. You can't go and insult people every time they make a stupid decision. I haven't seen quotes on the exact situation, there are of course exceptions such as where the referee is taunting or downright insulting the player himself so my post does not specifically apply to this situation. It's simply meant to show my opinion on situations like this in a more general setting. About casters being in games there are many things to consider. First of all the rule that a player must allow a caster is a good rule. The trick is in the enforcement of it. This is a good rule because players are unpredictable and you are dealing with 400 unpredictable potentially loose cannons. An organization must at all time keep the power of deciding whether people should be allowed to watch in their own hands. sometimes players are reasonable and only complain when there is lag, other times players behave like kids and do unreasonable things such as complaining about lag when there is none. Simply for the fact that they are tilted or dislike a certain obs or caster. Tournament rules have to be made in such a manner that they account for the worst possible situation. Then when situations arise a tournament organizer may opt not to apply the rules because he feels this is more fair. So when you establish the original rule about players being forced to allow casters is a good one we arrive at the core of the problem in this tournament. That is a player with a subjectively bad attitude being faced with a potentially unreasonable referee who can refer to the rules to protect himself. This all could have been avoided if players would simply treat people with more respect. That does not mean he was wrong in his complaints at all do not misunderstand my point, but for large organizations such as the ESL it is very hard to completely control every single link in their company structure. In this giant of an organization you are basically guaranteed people are going to make mistakes and if players don't care about being decent others they should start caring about being decent in order to help themselves. While I agree with you on all of those points, you did not mention anything at all about bigT calling Idra the "a move zerg" and CONSTANTLY BMing other amazing players. He is annoying people so much that Chill, a huge member of TL, decided to BM bigT with his BIggerT stream. Most people are agreeing idra overreacted, but nothing is being done on the basis of WHY idra didn't want BigT casting. Honestly, BigT is rude. He doesn't belong in these huge tourneys, and if I was a top notch player like Idra, I wouldn't want some rank 70 diamond guy telling me I'm an A move zerg while I'm playing. And he was lagging idra. Its a special circumstance. The guy is in Korea. He is doing so much for esports its not even funny just by being an amazing US player over there. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:44 Surrealz wrote: Please, just remove BigT from the web, and clean Idra's record. Idra is doing more for SC2 than 99.9999999% of this population, including the casters. If anything, IdrA's BM is hurting e-sports' attempts at becoming respected. Having the best westerner in the world act like this isn't good for the scene. | ||
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
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Lighioana
Norway466 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:48 CaptnIgnit wrote: He complained to the admins about not being able to cast IdrA's matches when the admins told him he would be able to. (IMO, more ESL's fault than BigT's. Who gives a caster permission to cast specific games and then doesn't inform the player?) He then attempted some BM humor at IdrA that everyone took out of context. He then attempted some more humor in the TL IRC and got quoted out of context (saying he is the one that issued the bans etc) Care to explain the context to us? Because what I read didn't look at all to be taken out of context. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:42 Surrealz wrote: Honestly, I have no desire to watch the rest of your tournament because of the way BigT is, and your BLATANTLY OBVIOUS hate for idra. Honestly, he is probably in the top 3 best SC2 players in the world and we have shoddy casters like BigT BMing him constantly and then you guys jumping the gun. Just saying this again, iCCup TV will be casting tonight. I could care less to get dragged into this ESL / IdrA drama, but if you want to see a PROFESSIONAL cast from a group that has a long running track record of being on of the best organizations in Starcraft please tune into iCCup TV tonight. This is all pretty crazy but iCCup TV only cares about bringing you high level professional matches with professional commentary and we will continue to do this regardless of all the drama going on otherwise. User was warned for this post | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On August 17 2010 05:34 midway wrote: Many of this issues are answered. IdrA's travel plans made it impossible to give him more notice of reschedule. Many of the comments and reactions to last night's drama were unfortunate and not necessary, on both sides. We have admitted to confusion and issues related to this. Again you are making the mistake like many others of merging two very separate issues. The PP and the rescheduling are not the same issue and as such should be taken that way. What exactly have you answered? All you have admitted to is "confusion" and "drama," when there's plenty of evidence that ESL staff botched the current situation pretty badly. Most of us are looking for you to acknowledge the mistakes of your subordinates and casters, instead of dismissing it as mutual "confusion." | ||
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InfiniteIce
United States794 Posts
On August 17 2010 04:44 Last Romantic wrote: Imposing avoidable latency on a progamer is really the organizers' fault. I have to side with IdrA here. I agree with this. Have the casters cast replays. I will echo the above because it is an extremely fair, and my exact, point: Imposing avoidable latency on (any gamer) is really the organizer's fault. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
To clarify I would never be ok with harrassment, that wasn't what I was talking about. I was talking about when you are criticizing or insulting the ESL but not actually communicating with the ESL but rather another person or party. I still don't actually understand if the rules condone that or not but if they don't I think that's real shitty. | ||
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zyzski
United States698 Posts
On August 17 2010 04:36 ffz wrote: Idra just needs to win 2 or 3 of these in a row so that next time they do this crap to them he'll just go to some other tourney. Hopefully ESL actually pays him this time. ESL does pay out eventually, it's just not instant. Blame the sponsors. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
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Voyager I
United States260 Posts
As for IdrA...if he wants to be respected as a professional, he's going to have to learn to act like one sooner or later. That means respecting your opponents and associated organizations and even putting up with other people's bullshit without calling anyone names. I honestly give credit to any organization willing to pull the cord on him if he insists on acting like a dick. This isn't to say that BigT shouldn't be talked to about his own conduct. | ||
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