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On August 17 2010 05:15 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen  My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game. Uh no..? Just because there isnt a written rule doesnt mean you can just do whatever you want. It's not like i can just go insult my boss after work without consequences. Bad comparison but whatever.
yes, it is a bad comparison
and that rule is ridiculous. the fuck does their jurisdiction get to apply to the rest of your life
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On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game. (at least I hope so)
I guess you are in a private conversation, of course, but in public? No.
1.1.1. Insults
All insults that occur in connection with the ESL will be punished. This mainly includes insults during a match but also insults within the ESL website (forums, match comments, player comments, support- and protest pages, etc.). Insults via IRC, ICQ, e-mail or other media may be penalized, providing a connection to the ESL is given and provable.
(From that rules page.)
But apparently the quote can't be the reason because it became public after the dq.
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well, its esl, what do you seriously expect? -_-
dont understand the caster issue. if a player has lag problems everyone should gtfo and let the players play, if u wanna cast, cast the replay but no one wanna see games which r influenced by lag. people should realise that the players are more important than some random shit caster.
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On August 17 2010 05:19 LawGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:13 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 17 2010 05:10 LawGQ wrote:
Idra got the shaft. This cup was completely unprofessional. Idra's a dick, but I would be too if the admins, casters, and organization of the cup looked like it was run by a 2 year old.
BigT really deserves to be removed as a caster from the cup all together if they are going to ban Idra. And you would deserve to get the swift kick out. Just because the ESL messed up doesn't justify IdrA messing up either. And yes, BigT is a terrible caster. Idra just returning the same amount of professionalism that was showed to him. Half of the cup was a joke, (the other half was fine, NP gj guys), but really they just got the level they were giving.
Again, that's not proper justification. If it was, athletes and progamers would be going off left and right at perceived injustices. There's a zero tolerance policy in almost all professional events for a reason.
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On August 17 2010 05:18 Sideburn wrote:
People in this thread certainly seem to have no regard for e-sports and only care about what "injustices" happened to their favorite player.
Why wrap injustices in quotes? It clearly was an injustice and there is nothing contentious about that. Shit decisions, fuck-ups, and asinine rules from organizers are bad for esports as well.
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I'm an IdrA fan but there isn't a single sports league or organization in the world that would sit there and allow participants to berate and insult the people running it, in-game or not. The NBA, NFL and other major sports leagues have fined players for tweeting about refs after games and the like so arguing that there should be no rules for BM in SC2 leagues is pretty foolish.
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oh ok that sounds more reasonable, but
Insults via IRC, ICQ, e-mail or other media may be penalized, providing a connection to the ESL is given and provable.
doesn't this mean if he is actually communicating with ESL people. not like, with his friend and then that person posts the chat log
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On August 17 2010 05:16 Streltsy wrote:
So wait, you guys fucked up because some guy lied to you and you were deciding to do this all live and have no checks and then not only disqualify a player but also penalize him for being angry about it? You know, being angry about getting kicked out of a tournament for doing nothing wrong? There are rules, but there is also a thing called discretion.
Mistakes happen, it's understandable and with an apology it would only be a minor stain on ESL's reputation, with improvements in the next cup it would be forgotten all together.
This kind of indignant rationalization on the other hand, makes me want to hurl vulgarities at you myself.
We resolved the situation in the best we can. Two players were unable to communicate and one of them made a mistake in reporting the issue as a forfeit win for himself. We corrected the issue and gave all parties involved a fair chance to play in our event.
We will be reviewing ways to make the event work better but at the end of the day we ran a 375 player event with over 4k people watching on video streams. While drama obviously has made this bigger issue, at the end of the day just like everyone here we are trying to build up a bigger audience and a more desirable venue for everyone who enjoys SC2 to play.
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On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game. (at least I hope so)
Just like you are technically allowed to say whatever you want in real life (in any country with freedom of speech at least). But at the same time, even if you are allowed to say whatever you want, if you insult a person in particular (even if you do not insult the person while being with them or while doing an activity related to that person), that said person can decide on consequences. (ie the job example earlier, I can insult my boss all I want when im not at work, but if he hears about it he still can fire me (and probably will). )
On August 17 2010 05:20 travis wrote:
yes, it is a bad comparison
and that rule is ridiculous. the fuck does their jurisdiction get to apply to the rest of your life
A player accepts to play in a certain tournament, thus accepting the jurisdiction. If Idra didnt want to apply by the rules because he didnt love them, he could simply have not participated.
The fact of loving the rules or not is not important once you have agreed to these said rules.
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I'm not really interested in the specifics of this, and don't claim to know who is in the right - speaking generally, it's just crazy to me how unprofessional idra is. This is his JOB, it's not 'cool' that he has no self control, it's pathetic.
On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game. (at least I hope so)
You're kidding, right? It's absolutely ridiculous to think harassment out of game shouldn't 'count'.
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Their tournament, their rules, their descision...
Why would they want to kick IdrA for no reason? How could that possibly help them continue to drive these tournaments?
I feel like alot of people are just looking for drama, there is none - Idra called tournament officials "fucking idiots", he got the boot, case closed.
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So when will BigT be banned?
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On August 17 2010 05:24 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game. (at least I hope so) You're kidding, right? It's absolutely ridiculous to think harassment out of game shouldn't 'count'. I'm not really interested in the specifics of this, and don't claim to know who is in the right - I just want to note that speaking generally, it's just crazy to me how unprofessional idra is. This is his JOB, it's not 'cool' that he has no self control, it's pathetic.
maybe u don't know what harrassment is. if you talk about someone while they aren't there that isn't even remotely close to being harrassment.
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On August 17 2010 05:22 Streltsy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:18 Sideburn wrote:
People in this thread certainly seem to have no regard for e-sports and only care about what "injustices" happened to their favorite player.
Why wrap injustices in quotes? It clearly was an injustice and there is nothing contentious about that. Shit decisions, fuck-ups, and asinine rules from organizers are bad for esports as well.
Because it is a matter of opinion. Obviously we have seen a lot of people in this thread feel like IdrA was 100% in the wrong, while on the other hand there are some that feel he was completely justified in everything that he did.
At any rate, I guarantee you that there wouldn't be this level of hubbub about such an issue if the player wasn't IdrA. Certainly not this level of sycophancy.
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On August 17 2010 05:25 ELA wrote:
Their tournament, their rules, their descision...
Why would they want to kick IdrA for no reason? How could that possibly help them continue to drive these tournaments?
I feel like alot of people are just looking for drama, there is none - Idra called tournament officials "fucking idiots", he got the boot, case closed.
IdrA got the boot before they knew that he called them 'fucking idiots'. The chat logs were released afterwards. Get your facts straight.
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On August 17 2010 05:25 ELA wrote:
Their tournament, their rules, their descision...
Why would they want to kick IdrA for no reason? How could that possibly help them continue to drive these tournaments?
I feel like alot of people are just looking for drama, there is none - Idra called tournament officials "fucking idiots", he got the boot, case closed.
Seriously, if you're not going to read the old thread, don't post. There are way too many people doing this.
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I came in here expecting some resolution, transparency or accountability... silly me.
What exactly does this post even resolve? It refuses to acknowledge that Certain ESL Staff Members jumped the gun and banned IdrA last night. It took the the entire night for them to resolve this issue.
This post doest even acknowledge the appallingly short notice IdrA received for his rematch, or official "casters" who BM'd one of the players and got him banned when said player refused to let him cast.
Pitiful.
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On August 17 2010 05:24 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game. (at least I hope so) You're kidding, right? It's absolutely ridiculous to think harassment out of game shouldn't 'count'. I'm not really interested in the specifics of this, and don't claim to know who is in the right - I just want to note that speaking generally, it's just crazy to me how unprofessional idra is. This is his JOB, it's not 'cool' that he has no self control, it's pathetic.
IdrA wasn't harrassing anyone, he was talking with a friend and did nothing to the friend. And correct me if I am wrong, but from what I have been reading, IdrA has been harassed by the organization. So I guess the organization is unprofessional then?
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On August 17 2010 05:26 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:24 UniversalSnip wrote:On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game. (at least I hope so) You're kidding, right? It's absolutely ridiculous to think harassment out of game shouldn't 'count'. I'm not really interested in the specifics of this, and don't claim to know who is in the right - I just want to note that speaking generally, it's just crazy to me how unprofessional idra is. This is his JOB, it's not 'cool' that he has no self control, it's pathetic. maybe u don't know what harrassment is. if you talk about someone while they aren't there that isn't even remotely close to being harrassment.
What you said should be allowed includes what most people would consider harassment. I don't know whether idra harassed anyone, I'm taking issue with your general position.
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EPT
