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On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen  My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter.
No, it's not different at all. If he's told that he'll be DQ'd, he shouldn't bitch and insult the admins, even if it is the incorrect decision. You talk to them calmly and try to explain everything. There's a certain standard of professionalism we should be holding ALL parties to, not just one or the other.
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Idra got the shaft. This cup was completely unprofessional. Idra's a dick, but I would be too if the admins, casters, and organization of the cup looked like it was run by a 2 year old.
BigT really deserves to be removed as a caster from the cup all together if they are going to ban Idra.
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On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.)
The chat logs appeared after the decisions were made, they weren't a factor at the time.
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On August 17 2010 04:59 starcraft911 wrote:
Penalty points for BM? Seriously? The winner should be the best at the game not the best at manners. ESL sounds like it's turning into a garbage organization.
Right, because holding players to a certain level of professionalism is a bad thing. I'm pretty sure just about every sport in the world penalizes insulting and poor sportsmanship no matter who the player is, and if e-sports wants to be taken seriously it needs to do the same.
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On August 17 2010 05:06 dyodyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:03 Deadlyfish wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. I dont care if the admins were poking idra with a sharp stick, he shouldnt have insulted them. IdrA just keeps on behaving like a child and tbh it isnt doing anything good for the sc2 community. Would be sooo ironic if they insulted him first though, it'd be REALLY funny actually Really? You wouldn't care? I mean REALLY?
Nope, because thats what he does aswell. When he's calling other people idiots and faggots, what does he think other people are gonna treat him like?
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On August 17 2010 05:10 LawGQ wrote:
BigT really deserves to be removed as a caster from the cup all together if they are going to ban Idra.
Just watch the iCCup TV stream from now on and you don't have to worry about BigT although I agree he should be removed.
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On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.)
he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game.
(at least I hope so)
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On August 17 2010 05:10 LawGQ wrote:
Idra got the shaft. This cup was completely unprofessional. Idra's a dick, but I would be too if the admins, casters, and organization of the cup looked like it was run by a 2 year old.
BigT really deserves to be removed as a caster from the cup all together if they are going to ban Idra.
And you would deserve to get the swift kick out.
Just because the ESL messed up doesn't justify IdrA messing up either.
And yes, BigT is a terrible caster.
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They taunted, provoked, and were incredibly rude to IdrA imo and kept him going. Keep on keepin on Idra don't take garbage from unprofessional people leeching off you. Management and organization was terrible they should give themselves penalty points.
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On August 17 2010 04:58 midway wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 04:44 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
If they do not state clearly which comments warranted the additional points it will still seem as if they're just trying to cover their asses from the initial comments posted by their admins which travis quoted in the last page. Post this on the other thread related to the same issue.... Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 04:45 koshka wrote:
[...flaming huh? right....
just tell us please
if you don't do it THAT is creating a bigger issue of the situation because you don't look very good if you are not telling the whole story. just seems a bit shady Honestly you can think its shady or not, but I'd rather have you yelling at us to be "transparent" then creating flame wars between pro and anti-IdrA fans over what is said. The reality is that just like any sport when a person acts out of line they are dealt with in manner related to their behavior. The NBA doesn't tell the press what a player said in a basketball game when he gets a Technical Foul. When a player gets a yellow or red card in FIFA they don't even tell you what it was for. We are being transparent but also keeping privacy for the obvious necessary reasons.
To minimize how poorly the issue is being handled, I assume.
What will the consequences be for the poor decisions of the admins? Oh sorry, clearly thats obvious and necessary to keep secret at the same time.
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On August 17 2010 05:10 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) The chat logs appeared after the decisions were made, they weren't a factor at the time.
Ah, I see, thanks for setting it straight.
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On August 17 2010 05:07 Grond wrote:
What are the rules regarding not paying the players what they are owed?
National ESL owed both HuK and qxc $50 for a Kick Off Cup and Beta Cup we ran. Both players have been paid. National ESL has been operating for around two months. ESL in Europe has other rules and I'm sure they would be happy to answer the situation.
I know the IEM prize money related to the American Championship will be paid after the LAN finals this October for travel expenses. The rest of the money will arrive in a 90 day time period after the event. This is standard procedure for all eSports events. The big reason for this is because sponsors don't give you the money ahead of time to pay the prizes. So the event organizer along with the players have to wait for the money to arrive from the companies involved.
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Seems like alot of bullshit over something that could of been avoided just by casting the replays. There no reason the games must be live. Hell there alot of benifets to casting replays over live games anyway. That said Idra just has got to learn to grow up a bit. Unfair rules, bad admin, and shit happens. BMing admins won't help at all. It just gets you banned.
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On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game. (at least I hope so)
No, you're not allowed to. There is some rule saying that insults (provided there's sufficient evidence) to their staff is not allowed in game or outside of the game and they reserve to right to penalize you. Can't remember the exact wording, but it's on their homepage.
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On August 17 2010 05:12 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:09 FrogOfWar wrote:On August 17 2010 05:00 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:On August 17 2010 04:57 Chill wrote:On August 17 2010 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:IdrA insulted other people? I think I can safely say we're all shocked such a thing could happen My problem is that we haven't seen any evidence of it. I have no doubt Idra insulted the admins; however, seeing if he did it unprovoked or after being told he was going to be disqualified are two wildly different situations. Considering ESL refuses to post the comments after being asked time and time again, I would tend to believe it was the latter. This, ESL needs more transparency in this situation they need to tell us what exactly he said or else it seems like they're still trying to cover their asses. They state players AND admins but I never saw him insult a player in this tournament... it seems like Chill is right here. Hm, he called the admins " fucking idiots". (Two posts further down he confirms that the quotes are accurate.) So it wasn't after being disqualified, but after being asked to replay two games, so also not unprovoked. Plus at that point he was already annoyed because of the BigT story and probably because of latency. Oh yeah, and in the first game after he let BigT in, he brought up the unpaid bills thing in ingame chat, which was clearly a diss. (Please don't read this as hating/flaming IdrA; I'm not.) he called them fucking idiots outside of the game. pretty sure you're allowed to say whatever you want outside of the game.
Uh no..? Just because there isnt a written rule doesnt mean you can just do whatever you want. It's not like i can just go insult my boss after work without consequences. Bad comparison but whatever.
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So wait, you guys fucked up because some guy lied to you and you were deciding to do this all live and have no checks and then not only disqualify a player but also penalize him for being angry about it? You know, being angry about getting kicked out of a tournament for doing nothing wrong? There are rules, but there is also a thing called discretion.
Mistakes happen, it's understandable and with an apology it would only be a minor stain on ESL's reputation, with improvements in the next cup it would be forgotten all together.
This kind of indignant rationalization on the other hand, makes me want to hurl vulgarities at you myself.
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On August 17 2010 04:58 midway wrote:
Honestly you can think its shady or not, but I'd rather have you yelling at us to be "transparent" then creating flame wars between pro and anti-IdrA fans over what is said. The reality is that just like any sport when a person acts out of line they are dealt with in manner related to their behavior.
The NBA doesn't tell the press what a player said in a basketball game when he gets a Technical Foul. When a player gets a yellow or red card in FIFA they don't even tell you what it was for. We are being transparent but also keeping privacy for the obvious necessary reasons.
I have a lot of sympathy for Midway here. He is completely right. People in this thread certainly seem to have no regard for e-sports and only care about what "injustices" happened to their favorite player. Granted, this is no different from regular sports fans, but even so. It's a little ridiculous to have so many people, even important names, be so ignorant about how things have to work if e-sports is to be successful in the west.
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Just ban IdrA and there won't be a BM problem for a long time.
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Bad management leads to bad shit happening.
Geez.. if people were good and professional like Day[9] nothing like this would happen.
GO DAY[9]!!!
Waiting for another quality tournament from you dude!!
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On August 17 2010 05:13 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2010 05:10 LawGQ wrote:
Idra got the shaft. This cup was completely unprofessional. Idra's a dick, but I would be too if the admins, casters, and organization of the cup looked like it was run by a 2 year old.
BigT really deserves to be removed as a caster from the cup all together if they are going to ban Idra. And you would deserve to get the swift kick out. Just because the ESL messed up doesn't justify IdrA messing up either. And yes, BigT is a terrible caster.
Idra just returning the same amount of professionalism that was showed to him.
Half of the cup was a joke, (the other half was fine, NP gj guys), but really they just got the level they were giving.
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EPT
