The first task of any organization should be to set goals for the team. By determining the success criteria, you create a set of expectations that everyone knows. The more public you make your success criteria, the more "transparent" you are. Once you have set the criteria for success, you can create rules for your organization to operate in order to achieve that criteria.
Example: (not factual)
IEM is an organization with the goal to lead e-sports broadcasting throughout North America and Europe by providing an exciting product to a large number of people.
How do you get there? Take into account the scope and resources available. IEM needs to find out how many tournaments they can host a year, who is available to run which tournaments, how much it will cost, how they're going to provide streaming, who is going to cast those games, etc etc etc.
Each one of those smaller "projects" needs to be managed. What is a success for "How much will it cost to provide this service?"
Once they figure out all that, they can use that criteria to create rules for their employees to follow that will allow them to hit their goals if followed. It's not up to us to let them know how to run things. They should be following their own defined success criteria. It is our job to let them know if their operating procedures match what we expect from an e-sports organization. We let them know this by tuning into their broadcasts, participating in their products, and other generalized feedback methods.
In almost all cases, organizations will run into trouble when those top objectives are not communicated properly down to the necessary people. In this case, it may not have been laid out plainly to the participants that they must accept a streamer in their games. If it was laid out, then IdrA should have allowed BigT to cast if BigT was a caster for the tournament.
I don't think everyone here has all of the information, and I don't think we should expect to get it. The issue that I have is that people are taking small tidbits and trying to piece the puzzle together. If all the parties want to come clean and fully explain the situation to appease people, it might help.. might not. In the meantime, though, everyone is going to have to choose whether to be satisfied with the decisions made by IEM.
If you disagree with how they handled this, don't use their products. I think Nazgul probably did the best job in the thread explaining the pros and cons of the situation, but I think that everyone involved needs to get a little more perspective on just how much information you don't know. I don't like BigT's casting style, but I don't think this guy is trying to sabotage tournaments either. I'm not going to spend my time trying to get him banned from casting, I'm just not going to watch his stream.
It's good to see an organization with at least some balls to spank a spoiled little girl on the bottom. If Idra wants to be a "pro" gamer, he needs to learn what that word means, which entails professionalism and mental development past that of a 12 year old.
I wanna thank you for your patience and professionalism dealing with this issue and the public here at TL. I understand it's impossible to please everyone, and it could be extremely frustrating trying to do so but, in my opinion, you have manned up and admited that mistakes were made and that you guys are trying make things right, now and in the future.
I have a few questions I was hoping you could answer.
1) Can you elaborate a little bit more on how the confusion came about with the "Idra is banned, idra isn't banned" fiasco? More specificaly, was it a snap call by an admin which was overturned after further investigation? if so, what changes will ESL make to avoid these problems in the future?
2) Have your views changed on having "volunteer" casters. As you have informed us, BigT approached ESL and asked to be a caster for the tournament. Unfortunately a lot of the drama seems to be focused on BigT as his role was recognized as an "official" caster for ESL. In the future, do you plan on continuing with this format? Will rules and guidlines be established for casters? Are you going to drop the entire volunteer caster plans and move towards another direction?
3) What's your stance on Roe vs Wade?
1) We looked into the issue and we have spoken to the admin(s) involved. The big issue is just that one something happens everyone jumps to conclusions. Admins are susceptible to it just as well as fans. IdrA is a big name player and him being banned can be a big story. As a league we will do a better job of making sure we final and public decisions when we are ready, as we have done today.
2) This is an evolving issue. Is no casting better then "volunteer" casting? This is a question we will have to continue to answer but don't have the answer to right now. As we are a part of the community you will be a part of this discussion. My personal feeling is that we need to find people we are able and willing to cast because without some sort of public viewing its hard for people to get excited and involved in the future of SC2 as eSport.
3) I'm not against abortion but I hate hearing people use it as a form of birth control. But as a personal preference on most rights (in the USA), I prefer to not tell others what to do in their own life (be that religion, politics, guns rights etc).
I bet you weren't expecting a real answer to that third one!
On August 17 2010 08:32 mmdmmd wrote: I don' think Idra will ever get a sponsor.
Whether he is faking it or not, NO sponsor in the world will want to link their product/service with a personality like his.
You do realize he is already on a pro team right? Ever hear of John Mcenroe, or how about the term "any publicity is good publicity"?
IdrA can BM all day long and it wont bother me. It's part of his personality, love it or leave it. As long as he is still entertaining to watch, and read about, I'm going to follow him.
How many other Pro Gamers get weekly threads about them here? How many other Pro Gamers are becoming such a house hold name? You may not like him, but marketing wise, Idra is a dream.
Then according to your theory, every mass murderer should be a marketing dream? Because a lot of them are the most talked about person in history, even years after their crime.
Like you say, "any publicity is good publicity"?
Hahaha... really? mass murderer is the same as BM? It's a common term in PR that even if you get bad press, you are getting press.
That being said, if say a mass murderer was some how affliated with your website and he was on the news... guess what? Your web site is going to see an increase in traffic. So in a way, yes even horrible serial killers can be marketed in one way or another.
Can someone please close this? The discussion is going way out of hand.
Summary: The admins make a mistake and force idra to play his matches again. Idra oblieges but insults the admins. the admins react to this (and the fact idra refuses streaming) with some penalty points because they don't want to disqualify him right away.
I wanna thank you for your patience and professionalism dealing with this issue and the public here at TL. I understand it's impossible to please everyone, and it could be extremely frustrating trying to do so but, in my opinion, you have manned up and admited that mistakes were made and that you guys are trying make things right, now and in the future.
I have a few questions I was hoping you could answer.
1) Can you elaborate a little bit more on how the confusion came about with the "Idra is banned, idra isn't banned" fiasco? More specificaly, was it a snap call by an admin which was overturned after further investigation? if so, what changes will ESL make to avoid these problems in the future?
2) Have your views changed on having "volunteer" casters. As you have informed us, BigT approached ESL and asked to be a caster for the tournament. Unfortunately a lot of the drama seems to be focused on BigT as his role was recognized as an "official" caster for ESL. In the future, do you plan on continuing with this format? Will rules and guidlines be established for casters? Are you going to drop the entire volunteer caster plans and move towards another direction?
3) What's your stance on Roe vs Wade?
1) We looked into the issue and we have spoken to the admin(s) involved. The big issue is just that one something happens everyone jumps to conclusions. Admins are susceptible to it just as well as fans. IdrA is a big name player and him being banned can be a big story. As a league we will do a better job of making sure we final and public decisions when we are ready, as we have done today.
2) This is an evolving issue. Is no casting better then "volunteer" casting? This is a question we will have to continue to answer but don't have the answer to right now. As we are a part of the community you will be a part of this discussion. My personal feeling is that we need to find people we are able and willing to cast because without some sort of public viewing its hard for people to get excited and involved in the future of SC2 as eSport.
3) I'm not against abortion but I hate hearing people use it as a form of birth control. But as a personal preference on most rights (in the USA), I prefer to not tell others what to do in their own life (be that religion, politics, guns rights etc).
I bet you weren't expecting a real answer to that third one!
I wanna thank you for your patience and professionalism dealing with this issue and the public here at TL. I understand it's impossible to please everyone, and it could be extremely frustrating trying to do so but, in my opinion, you have manned up and admited that mistakes were made and that you guys are trying make things right, now and in the future.
I have a few questions I was hoping you could answer.
1) Can you elaborate a little bit more on how the confusion came about with the "Idra is banned, idra isn't banned" fiasco? More specificaly, was it a snap call by an admin which was overturned after further investigation? if so, what changes will ESL make to avoid these problems in the future?
2) Have your views changed on having "volunteer" casters. As you have informed us, BigT approached ESL and asked to be a caster for the tournament. Unfortunately a lot of the drama seems to be focused on BigT as his role was recognized as an "official" caster for ESL. In the future, do you plan on continuing with this format? Will rules and guidlines be established for casters? Are you going to drop the entire volunteer caster plans and move towards another direction?
3) What's your stance on Roe vs Wade?
1) We looked into the issue and we have spoken to the admin(s) involved. The big issue is just that one something happens everyone jumps to conclusions. Admins are susceptible to it just as well as fans. IdrA is a big name player and him being banned can be a big story. As a league we will do a better job of making sure we final and public decisions when we are ready, as we have done today.
2) This is an evolving issue. Is no casting better then "volunteer" casting? This is a question we will have to continue to answer but don't have the answer to right now. As we are a part of the community you will be a part of this discussion. My personal feeling is that we need to find people we are able and willing to cast because without some sort of public viewing its hard for people to get excited and involved in the future of SC2 as eSport.
3) I'm not against abortion but I hate hearing people use it as a form of birth control. But as a personal preference on most rights (in the USA), I prefer to not tell others what to do in their own life (be that religion, politics, guns rights etc).
I bet you weren't expecting a real answer to that third one!
You didn't answer his first question. At all.
Actually he did...
"everyone jumps to conclusions. Admins are susceptible to it just as well as fans."
"as a league we will do a better job of making sure we final and public decisions when we are ready."
That pretty much answers the first question without going into detail and he already said he wouldn't disclose specific information.
On August 17 2010 09:05 coma wrote: Can someone please close this? The discussion is going way out of hand.
Summary: The admins make a mistake and force idra to play his matches again. Idra oblieges but insults the admins. the admins react to this (and the fact idra refuses streaming) with some penalty points because they don't want to disqualify him right away.
Now we're at mass murderer discussions.
not accurate at all i suggest you go read a little bit more of it
I wanna thank you for your patience and professionalism dealing with this issue and the public here at TL. I understand it's impossible to please everyone, and it could be extremely frustrating trying to do so but, in my opinion, you have manned up and admited that mistakes were made and that you guys are trying make things right, now and in the future.
I have a few questions I was hoping you could answer.
1) Can you elaborate a little bit more on how the confusion came about with the "Idra is banned, idra isn't banned" fiasco? More specificaly, was it a snap call by an admin which was overturned after further investigation? if so, what changes will ESL make to avoid these problems in the future?
2) Have your views changed on having "volunteer" casters. As you have informed us, BigT approached ESL and asked to be a caster for the tournament. Unfortunately a lot of the drama seems to be focused on BigT as his role was recognized as an "official" caster for ESL. In the future, do you plan on continuing with this format? Will rules and guidlines be established for casters? Are you going to drop the entire volunteer caster plans and move towards another direction?
3) What's your stance on Roe vs Wade?
1) We looked into the issue and we have spoken to the admin(s) involved. The big issue is just that one something happens everyone jumps to conclusions. Admins are susceptible to it just as well as fans. IdrA is a big name player and him being banned can be a big story. As a league we will do a better job of making sure we final and public decisions when we are ready, as we have done today.
2) This is an evolving issue. Is no casting better then "volunteer" casting? This is a question we will have to continue to answer but don't have the answer to right now. As we are a part of the community you will be a part of this discussion. My personal feeling is that we need to find people we are able and willing to cast because without some sort of public viewing its hard for people to get excited and involved in the future of SC2 as eSport.
3) I'm not against abortion but I hate hearing people use it as a form of birth control. But as a personal preference on most rights (in the USA), I prefer to not tell others what to do in their own life (be that religion, politics, guns rights etc).
I bet you weren't expecting a real answer to that third one!
You didn't answer his first question. At all.
ya he sure did, everyone on their admin heard thta idra bmed and stuff and knowing his rep they thought they deserved the ban before looking ath the whole story. they jumped to that conclusion and after that they reverted the ban after his actions were reviewed. it's not like they were bing as holes on purpose or nothing. at least that's what i got from reading his response o_o
On August 17 2010 08:50 divertiti wrote: It's good to see an organization with at least some balls to spank a spoiled little girl on the bottom. If Idra wants to be a "pro" gamer, he needs to learn what that word means, which entails professionalism and mental development past that of a 12 year old.
There's a difference between being a murderer and being a player who doesn't always show the greatest manners. Like in the football world Michael Vick lost a lot of respect from people after the dog fighting charade from actual violence, but a lot of players speak ill of others and no one turns there head. Maybe the same could be said of bands, I've heard Metallica doesn't have good personalities either but they're still popular and successful.
Edit: Meant to quote the post linking IdrA to a mass murderer.
wow, its interesting to read all this to say the least. Starcraft really has a mature community. Issues like this are handled like they should be. You would dream all of the world issues would be cared by 'us'.
When I was on the stream last night, watching BigT I saw the problem arise. One of the few problems that hasn't really been brought up is the caster here. BigT is popular among some players. In some games the IEM official cast crew was even kicked by the players. BigT than had the sole right of casting.
The solution would be to control these self-exclaimed casters.Its not that I don't like casters like BigT. Don't get me wrong, they too contribute to the community. But I do think that ESL staff should be aware of 3rd party casters. Maybe make some rules for them too? It was clear for everyone on the stream that the players (IdrA), referee (Beef) and the caster (BigT) didn't really know what to do. This is a problem for a organization as ESL. especially when there are 3k people watching!
IdrA was the only gamer in the tournament that seemed to get ridiculed from both casters on the only day I viewed (group B qualifiers I believe?). BigT laughed and acted like a snarky child when he saw IdrA lost, and the gosugamers commentator was probably worse. As a viewer, I just decided to not listen to these commentators again -- they were the most childish of the all the 10+ SC commentators I've listened to. Could you imagine an OSL commentator smirking with glee at the elimination of a pro gamer?
As a player with IdrA's prospects, you have to respect IdrA's anger at the organization that allowed this to occur. The only thing I regret is he hasn't excused himself from the tournament barring changes in staff standards. Bad volunteers can and should be let go.
EPT
