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Z v T: Current situation and comparison to BW - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Nohtanhoj
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada15 Posts
August 15 2010 07:11 GMT
#181
A few simple changes will fix this entire thing....

1. Nerf Thor range and cut down splash damage. This makes Mutas much more viable.
2. Cut down the Hellion Pre-Igniter upgrades damage bonus to Light.
3. Drop the energy requirement for Fungal Growth slightly.

gg
The conquest of fear lies in the moment of its acceptance.
Sentient
Profile Joined April 2010
United States437 Posts
August 15 2010 07:12 GMT
#182
Let Corruption be cast on Thors, Missile Turrets, and Bunkers.
Avril_Lavigne
Profile Joined April 2010
United States446 Posts
August 15 2010 07:20 GMT
#183
Zerg just needs a totally overpowered unit as they did in broodwar, defiler with darkswarm lol.
People say that Terran is not imbalanced? Most of terrans units either have a splash, good dps, or an area of effect.

Planetary Fortress > Splash
Tanks > Splash
Thors > Air Splash
Nuke > Splash
EMP > Area of effect
Hellion > Area of effect/Splash
Raven seeker missile > Splash
Battlecruisers > they attack so fast they can kill like 4 units at a time

Non splash, single fire units

Marine, marauder, viking, banshee, reaper

But seriously in TvZ, how often are these units used in the main army against zerg?

It's like every terran picks the overpowered units to win cos all the units listed above pretty much has a splash damage against zerg.

Why do terrans have building upgrades? +2 armor for buildings? increased turret range? increase bunker slots?

Terran has infinite income? no scvs but infinite mules?

Zerg units need to be cheaper, or their tech timing need to be shortened some how, and their units need to cost less supply! the roaches need to be back to 1 supply, however nerfed appropriately for balancing! Infestors are too fragile! neural parasite is useless. Not only that but they nerfed it to permanent infestation to 15 seconds? what was the point of that? infestors practically get one shotted after using a NP.. uselesss wasted 150 gas. even with better positioning, no matter what, they'll always get focus fired.

Terran is just way to OP atm, Zealot bombs dont work anymore, every unit completely owns whatever unit it's meant to counter.
Thrasymachus725
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada527 Posts
August 15 2010 07:23 GMT
#184
People, let's come up with solutions that are NOT SC1 solutions... Something new and creative, and interesting that adds to the game of SC2 without turning it into SC1. Also, if you are going to make a suggestion please make sure that it doesn't destoy other matchups. Things like increasing Roach range from 3-4 are TERRIBLE ideas because that would massacre the balance that exists in PvZ.
The meaning of life is to fight.
MatthewTB
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada6 Posts
August 15 2010 07:24 GMT
#185
Not much you can do until a patch comes out.

I am going to just practice custom games and stay away from ladder for a while.

DreXxiN
Profile Joined July 2010
United States494 Posts
August 15 2010 07:28 GMT
#186
I know this is a very "easy way out" and unorthodox strategy for balance, but why not alter unit stats slightly depending on what matchup spawns? I know that's more of a band-aid solution and not professional AT ALL, but wouldn't it technically be a fix? lol
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
August 15 2010 07:28 GMT
#187
We zergs need to stay strong! keep whining and we will have our buff eventually, once it comes the terrans are done for! kneel for the swarm.
Thrasymachus725
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada527 Posts
August 15 2010 07:29 GMT
#188
On August 15 2010 16:28 DreXxiN wrote:
I know this is a very "easy way out" and unorthodox strategy for balance, but why not alter unit stats slightly depending on what matchup spawns? I know that's more of a band-aid solution and not professional AT ALL, but wouldn't it technically be a fix? lol


Wow... it takes every ounce of my willpower to not rip your head off

This would wreck SC as we know it.
The meaning of life is to fight.
crimsonsentinel
Profile Joined April 2010
United States179 Posts
August 15 2010 07:32 GMT
#189
Well put OP. Another thing is that since creep is so essential, you almost have to have an extra queen splitting out tumors as T is destroying them. By late mid game you'll have 6,8,10+ supply tied up in queens. And since Blizzard is intent on making queens a defensive only unit, that's 10 supply that can't be used for an attacking army. Add in the extra 20 ish drones and you're down upwards of 30 supply. So not only is the zerg army worse cost for cost, he's actually also down a dozen units as well.
DreXxiN
Profile Joined July 2010
United States494 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-15 07:34:57
August 15 2010 07:34 GMT
#190
What about making Queens run the same speed on and off creep? It's not very huge, but does make creep spreading easier and I don't think other races will complain "OMG QUEEN IMBA RUNS AT SPEED OF PROBE"
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-15 07:38:14
August 15 2010 07:38 GMT
#191
On August 15 2010 16:34 DreXxiN wrote:
What about making Queens run the same speed on and off creep? It's not very huge, but does make creep spreading easier and I don't think other races will complain "OMG QUEEN IMBA RUNS AT SPEED OF PROBE"


apparently blizzard didn't like mass queen rushes so they nerfed speed off creep.
Thrasymachus725
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada527 Posts
August 15 2010 07:39 GMT
#192
On August 15 2010 16:34 DreXxiN wrote:
What about making Queens run the same speed on and off creep? It's not very huge, but does make creep spreading easier and I don't think other races will complain "OMG QUEEN IMBA RUNS AT SPEED OF PROBE"


No it is not about the queen running at the speed of my worker. It is about an early Queen Roach push demolishing Protoss. Until you get Immortals, Queen/Roach would demolish Protoss painfully. This is why the queen speed is currently necessary.
The meaning of life is to fight.
potatomash3r
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia417 Posts
August 15 2010 07:41 GMT
#193
On August 15 2010 16:34 DreXxiN wrote:
What about making Queens run the same speed on and off creep? It's not very huge, but does make creep spreading easier and I don't think other races will complain "OMG QUEEN IMBA RUNS AT SPEED OF PROBE"


If I'm not mistaken that was a big problem on the Korean server with queen rushing or pushing (can't recall) despite it being slower off creep, hence the nerf to make it even slower..
Part of being mature is to accept your loss.
purerythem
Profile Joined June 2009
United States245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-15 07:45:33
August 15 2010 07:42 GMT
#194
I favor the idea of giving the hatchery energy. Make it do something unique. Both P and T have unique bases that use energy. Zerg has to spend 150 minerals and remember to cast it, rebuild it, and micro it.

Also, this i'm sure is pointless to state, but it bugs me that P and T can rally their scv's or probes to a mineral patch and it instantly comes out of that side of the base. Zerg drones have to take the long rout all the way around the hatchery, and I'm sure if anyone has misplaced a spawning pool, that rout gets even longer.
vyyye
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden3917 Posts
August 15 2010 07:44 GMT
#195
On August 15 2010 16:42 purerythem wrote:
I favor the idea of giving the hatchery energy. Make it do something unique. Both P and T have unique bases that use energy. Zerg has to spend 150 minerals and remember to cast it, rebuild it, and micro it.

You can fend off early harass with mules. Your logic is flawed but yeah, I agree that there should be something more to zerg than "spawn larvae eveyr 40 sec".
DreXxiN
Profile Joined July 2010
United States494 Posts
August 15 2010 07:44 GMT
#196
On August 15 2010 16:39 Zanez.smarty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 16:34 DreXxiN wrote:
What about making Queens run the same speed on and off creep? It's not very huge, but does make creep spreading easier and I don't think other races will complain "OMG QUEEN IMBA RUNS AT SPEED OF PROBE"


No it is not about the queen running at the speed of my worker. It is about an early Queen Roach push demolishing Protoss. Until you get Immortals, Queen/Roach would demolish Protoss painfully. This is why the queen speed is currently necessary.


Are you sure? Doing a timing push with roach and queen would not only cost extra money to get another queen at your main, but it's an economic disadvantage if it fails. The way I see it is it's not going to be effective by the time you need 2 queens, which will slow roaches because of the queen cost...AND you're not going to be using more than 3 larva per hatch if you run that first queen to dedicate to the push. Also roach costs 2 food now, as opposed to the past where it was 1.
hopewellsmash
Profile Joined June 2010
17 Posts
August 15 2010 07:44 GMT
#197
good post. and yes i am a zerg player. i just want to add one thing. terran and protoss both have a caster which can take away energy (i find this very useful). why can't zerg have a caster to take away energy from units. i know its not going to solve most of the problems but i think it would make muta/sling/bling a little more effective being able to cast it on medivacs so they can't heal, and ghosts can't snipe(though i haven't seen this much in my ZvT then again i am mid plat). plus in late game thor 500mm cannon cannot be used on ultras. just my opinion
Orange Goblin
Profile Joined May 2010
218 Posts
August 15 2010 07:45 GMT
#198
On August 15 2010 16:38 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 16:34 DreXxiN wrote:
What about making Queens run the same speed on and off creep? It's not very huge, but does make creep spreading easier and I don't think other races will complain "OMG QUEEN IMBA RUNS AT SPEED OF PROBE"


apparently blizzard didn't like mass queen rushes so they nerfed speed off creep.


Really, though, was it very hard to stop if scouted?

I just don't get how Z could ever do any cheese at all, being that Z is so easy to scout.
purerythem
Profile Joined June 2009
United States245 Posts
August 15 2010 07:47 GMT
#199
On August 15 2010 16:44 hopewellsmash wrote:
good post. and yes i am a zerg player. i just want to add one thing. terran and protoss both have a caster which can take away energy (i find this very useful). why can't zerg have a caster to take away energy from units. i know its not going to solve most of the problems but i think it would make muta/sling/bling a little more effective being able to cast it on medivacs so they can't heal, and ghosts can't snipe(though i haven't seen this much in my ZvT then again i am mid plat). plus in late game thor 500mm cannon cannot be used on ultras. just my opinion



you could give the infestor some type of consume ability similar to the defiler.
purerythem
Profile Joined June 2009
United States245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-15 07:49:15
August 15 2010 07:49 GMT
#200
On August 15 2010 16:44 vyyye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 16:42 purerythem wrote:
I favor the idea of giving the hatchery energy. Make it do something unique. Both P and T have unique bases that use energy. Zerg has to spend 150 minerals and remember to cast it, rebuild it, and micro it.

You can fend off early harass with mules. Your logic is flawed but yeah, I agree that there should be something more to zerg than "spawn larvae eveyr 40 sec".


not really. getting a queen is optional, although pretty much required. Mules are optional, but you also get scan, one of the two you will always be using, if not both.

protoss also have the ability of a mandatory usage, free of charge. I'm not complaining about the queen, I just think giving the hatchery something unique might be interesting to think about.
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