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hopewellsmash
17 Posts
On August 15 2010 16:47 purerythem wrote: you could give the infestor some type of consume ability similar to the defiler. that is an awesome idea. anyone else in favor of this? | ||
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potatomash3r
Australia417 Posts
On August 15 2010 16:49 hopewellsmash wrote: that is an awesome idea. anyone else in favor of this? I agree, if psi storm and EMP can make it back into sc2 from SCBW why not consume? | ||
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EvilMaishidon
United States125 Posts
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
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Oleksandr
United States227 Posts
On August 15 2010 17:04 used man wrote: Im not going to comment on the issue right now, since im still thinking it over. But will everyone PLEASE stop calling the tanks attack "smart AI" or some other incorrect term? The AI is exactly the same. The difference is, that the tanks projectile has no travel time. In BW, the time between the tank shooting, and the blast occurring, was existent. In SC2, its instant. If it had been instant in BW, tanks would have been exactly the same as they are in SC2. Right now, im trying to find a way to add a travel time to the attack, so we could see if it actually makes a huge difference. Go back to programming and dictionaries, we are gamers here. The end result of new tank AI is smarter; that is all that matters. | ||
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cerebralz
United States443 Posts
Being able to get 2 queens early as well as lair makes a big difference in defending some of the early harass, as well as spreading creep between your main and your natural. You can block the ramp from hellions, and chase down multiple reapers with only one spinecrawler. By the time you need lair tech for things like detection/hydra/burrow/ol speed, you will have it, rather than sacrifice too much in static defense. That and/or reducing the morph time of lair/hive by a significant amount. Also, there is nothing zerg can do that punishes T for muling excessively. | ||
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tangwhat
New Zealand446 Posts
On August 15 2010 17:04 used man wrote: Im not going to comment on the issue right now, since im still thinking it over. But will everyone PLEASE stop calling the tanks attack "smart AI" or some other incorrect term? The AI is exactly the same. The difference is, that the tanks projectile has no travel time. In BW, the time between the tank shooting, and the blast occurring, was existent. In SC2, its instant. If it had been instant in BW, tanks would have been exactly the same as they are in SC2. Right now, im trying to find a way to add a travel time to the attack, so we could see if it actually makes a huge difference. Actually Blizzard has said the way tanks work is that there is a small fraction of a section separating each tank from firing simultaneously, it is this coupled with the no animation travel time that siege tanks fire "smarter". Because since there is a small interval between each tank fire well obviously overkill can't exist because tanks can't shoot at units that are already dead. | ||
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purerythem
United States245 Posts
On August 15 2010 17:04 used man wrote: Im not going to comment on the issue right now, since im still thinking it over. But will everyone PLEASE stop calling the tanks attack "smart AI" or some other incorrect term? The AI is exactly the same. The difference is, that the tanks projectile has no travel time. In BW, the time between the tank shooting, and the blast occurring, was existent. In SC2, its instant. If it had been instant in BW, tanks would have been exactly the same as they are in SC2. Right now, im trying to find a way to add a travel time to the attack, so we could see if it actually makes a huge difference. In sc2, there is no overkill. So if one tank fires and that unit will die, the 2nd tank will automatically shoot at the next unit. Continue from there. It has nothing to do with travel time on attacks, simply there is no overkill. If you are trolling, well played. | ||
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Vokasak
United States388 Posts
On August 15 2010 17:16 purerythem wrote: In sc2, there is no overkill. So if one tank fires and that unit will die, the 2nd tank will automatically shoot at the next unit. Continue from there. It has nothing to do with travel time on attacks, simply there is no overkill. If you are trolling, well played. He's correct. The AI isn't "smart". There is simply no delay between the projectile and the damage like there was in Brood War. In addition, no two actions take place simultaneously. The engine doesn't allow it, just as it doesn't allow it in WC3. Between any two given attacks compared one will always "go first", and since the damage from one tank attack is resolved before another begins, this gives the illusion that tanks have somehow gotten smarter. They've simply gotten faster. | ||
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CynanMachae
Canada1459 Posts
Also this topic would be so much better if people would focus on the discussion instead of petty arguments... | ||
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jamesltl
Malaysia159 Posts
here is my suggestion: 1. make the spawn larvae auto cast OR ur queen is able to inject multiple times to the hatch to use up all the excess energy. p/s: i not sure if these suggestion is viable but i am agreeing that TvZ is imbalance while i am T player. | ||
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Efemral
Australia67 Posts
However - if Zerg really is UP and I just loose all the time to terran I am sure the game won't be fun anymore despite the fact that I dont realy play to win. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Non-sequitor: I wonder if ZvZ would be less retarded if banelings did 34 damage instead of 35, or zerglings had 36 HP instead of 35. (I like the 36 HP method, they still die in the same # of hits to unupgraded marines, and the zealot weapon/carapace upgrade tension still exists.) Probably wouldn't affect drone vs zergling matchups, as the zerglings likely already regen a hit point somewhere during the fight unless they are seriously surrounded by drones. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On August 15 2010 16:47 purerythem wrote: you could give the infestor some type of consume ability similar to the defiler. Instead of consume i would give an energi-steal ability. Not W3/Dota style, but from friendly units, such as Queens and corruptors. A lot of zergs complain about the Corruptors as their only use against a P army is battling Colossi, while a Viking can land and harass or fight after killing them, the corruptors can spit some snot on a couple of units and that's it. Also Queen's piling up energy is one of the most discussed issue since the early days of beta. And the infestor needing a buff. 3 problems "solved" at least almost, by one change | ||
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EvilMaishidon
United States125 Posts
I'm going to create a thread about zerg balance, and actually testing the changes. I'm assuming I have the ability to complete most of them. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
I think another issue is the maps themselves. As much as I appreciate Blizzard trying to make better maps, they just don't get it. The scene needs professional map makers who understand this game and they need to be tested before being playable in tournaments, just like in SC1. | ||
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Orange Goblin
218 Posts
On August 15 2010 17:37 Geo.Rion wrote: Instead of consume i would give an energi-steal ability. Not W3/Dota style, but from friendly units, such as Queens and corruptors. A lot of zergs complain about the Corruptors as their only use against a P army is battling Colossi, while a Viking can land and harass or fight after killing them, the corruptors can spit some snot on a couple of units and that's it. Also Queen's piling up energy is one of the most discussed issue since the early days of beta. And the infestor needing a buff. 3 problems "solved" at least almost, by one change This is actually an awesome idea. I'm all for it. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
Yesterday I played some zerg on the ladder (+-700 points diamond) and I killed his 3th base 3 (!) times. The guy kept on spamming ultra's and they dominated my tank-thor-helion force. Then he switched to broodlords + corruptors. I just can't foresee vikings when my opponent is spamming ultra's so by the time my vikings were out (so I could move out again), he had his 3th and 4th up. When a zerg got his third up he shits ultra's like zerglings. On maps like scrap station I can't take an island as my third (because of drops / muta's) so I have to take the 3th close to the watchtower. I don't know what those good terrans are doing but my mech army (besides the helions) is so slow. They nydus in my base and by the time I'm there they retreat and they just take out my third. A few days back I played decemvrie on metapolis. He did a fast roach drop and he just kept harassing me with roaches. He was burrowing the whole time and he was delaying my expansions. If I moved my army to my 3th, he just dropped roaches in my main. By the time I had my third up and running, he had 5 bases. I just couldn't attack because my slow army was having a hard time to defend. You can't do a shit vs a zerg sitting on 5 bases.They make broodlords, and by the time you have vikings they are there with 10 ultra's ripping your (weakened by broodlords) mech army. I kept on harassing decemvrie with helions. I killed at least 30 of his drones, but this was not a problem for him. With the new larvae mechanic zerg can rebuild their whole drone arsenal in 1 min. Some zergs advice me to do more helion drops. This is indeed possible but against mutalisks patrolling the whole map it's just damn hard. Another thing: you seriously need a raven if you move out with a mech army. Burrowed infestors can just take over 2/3 of your army in a few seconds. I wonder how a terran can sit on more then 2 bases (especially on some maps) with mech. Drops / a nydus in your main base and you can move your whole army to there. You can build vikings, indeed, but people shouldn't underestimate ultralisks. You really need a high amount of tanks to fight them. You can sit on 2 bases, but good zergs will just expand 5 times. Another note: bio. How can you go bio as a terran vs zerg. If I do it then I just die to gold players making just banelings. In my opinion you can't micro vs speedlings followed by banelings with speed. | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
Zergs. I just list some here: reapers, hellions, banshees, fast expand, mass bio/marines, ghosts/nukes, tank rush, pure mech, dropships, vikings... 1. Yes, reapers are a definite problem on some maps, but on maps with large mains Z can adapt rather quickly by spreading creep and chasing away with speedlings. Maybe it's very different at the top levels. 2. Fast expand is rarely viable simply because Z will get his natural faster than T with the larva mechanic, T cannot afford to let Z get away with a free 14-15 hatch. 3. Mass bio/marines is countered extremely easily by banelings and lings. It is a terrible opener. 4. Ghosts/nukes - Not sure if a 500 gas investment into a ghost with a nuke is worth dealing basically some damage to a hatchery, since you can just pull drones. If scouted by Z, it's an autoloss for T, so it's another terrible opener. Ghosts late game however are another story. 5. Tank rush - another terrible opener. Early tank is nothing but a marauder with slightly higher damage and slighty higher HP, but at the cost of 225 gas at the minimum. Maybe I don't understand what this build is, but then please explain. 6. Pure Mech - Hellions should be merged with this build, to transition into mech, you need to have 2 bases, for which you need to do some damage vs Z's economy. 7. Dropships - really part of the bio play, can be countered relatively easily with queen and ling surrounds, also becomes terrible mid game after banelings and infestors come out. 8. Vikings - this really isn't much of an opener, quick viking to snipe overlords can be gotten with any build, so it doesn't deserve a separate entry. Out of all 10 builds you listed, Hellions and Banshee are the only 2 really good builds that can be considered OP, especially since you almost can't tell which one is coming. | ||
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crimsonsentinel
United States179 Posts
On August 15 2010 17:49 Dente wrote: As a terran player I have to say: well written! I think there is something wrong early game, but lategame I just don't know what to do vs zerg. Ultralisks are so unbelievable strong. Mr 200mm cannon would like to have a word with you. Yes, a quick switch may catch you off guard, but brood lords and ultras both take so long to build it gives you a lot of time to respond. | ||
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