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On May 07 2010 06:32 Kantuva wrote:EPIC LOL!!!!
How is that epic? The video only shows the WEAKNESS of auto-move. It makes you THINK you have invincible Phoenixes, but look at how low those Phoenixes became. If you want to actually efficiently micro, you have to...well, micro.
Also, people should test Corruption in-game. For Example: Does the damage calculation come before or after the Hardened Shields?
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Phoenix drivers are so frigging pro xD
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On May 07 2010 06:35 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:35 yoshi_yoshi wrote: Well, people will still use the corruptor ability because there's nothing else to spend the energy on. It's effectively like a secondary attack where the corruptor can do 50 damage or so every minute. Completely bleh. i won't use it because it will be a waste of my time to click it
or to build the corruptor in the first place
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On May 07 2010 06:35 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:35 yoshi_yoshi wrote: Well, people will still use the corruptor ability because there's nothing else to spend the energy on. It's effectively like a secondary attack where the corruptor can do 50 damage or so every minute. Completely bleh. i won't use it because it will be a waste of my time to click it It's pretty much the devourer's acid spores ability from BW except without attack speed slow and single target and cost energy.
aka. It sucks.
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The micro in the second video above is terrible. Running the Phoenix past the Mutas repeatedly just lets the Mutas constantly pound on them. There's pretty much no difference between what the guy in the video does, and what would happen if you just attack-moved...except you can't focus fire at all, so it's actually worse.
The proper way to Phoenix micro is to run the Phoenix around just out of range of the Mutas, so that the Phoenix can attack them without being attacked themselves. THIS way, the Phoenix are quite deadly.
Really, the fact that Phoenix can now destroy Mutas is really not a problem in my book, since it's specifically designed to counter them. Now, if we hear that the Phoenix is way too powerful against Corruptors, then I'll be worried...
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On May 07 2010 06:35 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:32 yoshi_yoshi wrote:On May 07 2010 06:17 BlasiuS wrote:On May 07 2010 06:12 yoshi_yoshi wrote: Lots of interesting changes.
The corruption one is the only one I think is LOLWTF. The original building corruption really seemed to have some interesting potential. Now, think about using unit corruption on a big unit (200-300 hp). 20% of that is basically decreasing it's HP by 40-60. People will use it because there's no other way to spend the energy, but it's totally not interesting or exciting. corruption doesn't reduce a units health by 20%. It causes all damage against it to be increased by 20% I know, I'm just trying to say that the effect of the corruption ability is like decreasing the HP of a big unit by 40-60 HP. Which is quite a lame ability with pretty much no potential for interesting use. No it's effect isn't like that at all. They are totally different. I.E. a zergling attacking a corrupted unit does 1 extra damage per hit. But an ultralisk attacking a corrupted unit does 5 extra damage per hit. It depends on the damage of the attacking units, not on the health of the corrupted unit.
what both of u are saying is the same thing. doing 40hp to a 200hp unit all at once, or doing the 40 in extra damage via ur attacking units - is 40 damage either way.
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My god... no cost decrease on seige and they nerfed dmg QQ.
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On May 07 2010 06:09 Gont wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:06 GogoKodo wrote:I posted this on reddit where the Phoenix youtube video was posted but I think it has it's place here as well. + Show Spoiler + I think it's interesting and I'll wait to see if it's "broken" as people like to yell immediately at any new change.
And before the "auto micro" crowd gets going. It's not auto micro, you still need to control the unit. Yes it's less micro than the mutalisk required in SC1 for a moving shot but that doesn't mean your phoenixes are darting in and out against enemy units all on their own. Some people say it's not adding any micro but this adds micro in battles that previously were just attack move fights. You would see this often in larger battles, attack move pheonixes into attack move mutas/whatever. Now the phoenix player can make a difference with micro by possibly darting in and out.
The possible broken situation is with phoenix chasing other units down. This might not be broken though if the other player can split up the units that are being chased, so the phoenixes will need to split targets or they will only get the chance to kill a smaller portion of the enemy army or even a single unit. This is added micro. If you were shown a nuke for the very first time out of context you might think it was broken too. Just wait a little bit and see how it works out in a real game before you go insane screaming that the sky is falling and Blizzard is going with it.
not sure about that but how u wanna kill phoenix with mutas now? since the phoenix are much faster its impossible against a good player unless u have like 4 times more mutas... but i wont whine until i played with and against it =) Phoenix is supposed to be hard counter to mutas..Corsair group could rape infinite mutas.. This moving thing wont work against anything else..and phoenix itself isnt good against non light air
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So basically Thor's just got even more useless against Battlecruisers. Hooray.
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On May 07 2010 06:37 iounas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:09 Gont wrote:On May 07 2010 06:06 GogoKodo wrote:I posted this on reddit where the Phoenix youtube video was posted but I think it has it's place here as well. + Show Spoiler + I think it's interesting and I'll wait to see if it's "broken" as people like to yell immediately at any new change.
And before the "auto micro" crowd gets going. It's not auto micro, you still need to control the unit. Yes it's less micro than the mutalisk required in SC1 for a moving shot but that doesn't mean your phoenixes are darting in and out against enemy units all on their own. Some people say it's not adding any micro but this adds micro in battles that previously were just attack move fights. You would see this often in larger battles, attack move pheonixes into attack move mutas/whatever. Now the phoenix player can make a difference with micro by possibly darting in and out.
The possible broken situation is with phoenix chasing other units down. This might not be broken though if the other player can split up the units that are being chased, so the phoenixes will need to split targets or they will only get the chance to kill a smaller portion of the enemy army or even a single unit. This is added micro. If you were shown a nuke for the very first time out of context you might think it was broken too. Just wait a little bit and see how it works out in a real game before you go insane screaming that the sky is falling and Blizzard is going with it.
not sure about that but how u wanna kill phoenix with mutas now? since the phoenix are much faster its impossible against a good player unless u have like 4 times more mutas... but i wont whine until i played with and against it =) Phoenix is supposed to be hard counter to mutas..Corsair group could rape infinite mutas.. This moving thing wont work against anything else..and phoenix itself isnt good against non light air
You could micro (spread out) against corsairs. Nothing you can do vs phoenixes, man.
This is the case with a lot of things in this game.
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On May 07 2010 06:35 yoshi_yoshi wrote: Well, people will still use the corruptor ability because there's nothing else to spend the energy on. It's effectively like a secondary attack where the corruptor can do 50 damage or so every minute. Completely bleh.
Together with the reduced damage to massive units, the corruptor now kills corrupted Colossi around 5% faster than before. It's not worth the effort. The only thing it is good for is getting rid of that energy to prevent HTs from feedbacking you for 200 damage.
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rofl awesome, someone make a vid where group of phoenix kill a group of muta with just one move-command click.
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I think Ultralisks are more viable now. Eager to see if people will start using them a bit more. They are already extremely tough so I think the damage increase will be enough.
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On May 07 2010 06:37 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:35 BlasiuS wrote:On May 07 2010 06:32 yoshi_yoshi wrote:On May 07 2010 06:17 BlasiuS wrote:On May 07 2010 06:12 yoshi_yoshi wrote: Lots of interesting changes.
The corruption one is the only one I think is LOLWTF. The original building corruption really seemed to have some interesting potential. Now, think about using unit corruption on a big unit (200-300 hp). 20% of that is basically decreasing it's HP by 40-60. People will use it because there's no other way to spend the energy, but it's totally not interesting or exciting. corruption doesn't reduce a units health by 20%. It causes all damage against it to be increased by 20% I know, I'm just trying to say that the effect of the corruption ability is like decreasing the HP of a big unit by 40-60 HP. Which is quite a lame ability with pretty much no potential for interesting use. No it's effect isn't like that at all. They are totally different. I.E. a zergling attacking a corrupted unit does 1 extra damage per hit. But an ultralisk attacking a corrupted unit does 5 extra damage per hit. It depends on the damage of the attacking units, not on the health of the corrupted unit. what both of u are saying is the same thing. doing 40hp to a 200hp unit all at once, or doing the 40 in extra damage via ur attacking units - is 40 damage either way.
No, 40 damage instantly happens instantly. 40 damage via attacking units...doesn't. time is a factor here obviously.
A different example:
25 hydras attack a thor once. They do 300 damage. 25 hydras attack a corrupted thor once. They do 360 damage. That's 60 additional damage.
60 > 40, do you see the difference?
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On May 07 2010 06:37 iounas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:09 Gont wrote:On May 07 2010 06:06 GogoKodo wrote:I posted this on reddit where the Phoenix youtube video was posted but I think it has it's place here as well. + Show Spoiler + I think it's interesting and I'll wait to see if it's "broken" as people like to yell immediately at any new change.
And before the "auto micro" crowd gets going. It's not auto micro, you still need to control the unit. Yes it's less micro than the mutalisk required in SC1 for a moving shot but that doesn't mean your phoenixes are darting in and out against enemy units all on their own. Some people say it's not adding any micro but this adds micro in battles that previously were just attack move fights. You would see this often in larger battles, attack move pheonixes into attack move mutas/whatever. Now the phoenix player can make a difference with micro by possibly darting in and out.
The possible broken situation is with phoenix chasing other units down. This might not be broken though if the other player can split up the units that are being chased, so the phoenixes will need to split targets or they will only get the chance to kill a smaller portion of the enemy army or even a single unit. This is added micro. If you were shown a nuke for the very first time out of context you might think it was broken too. Just wait a little bit and see how it works out in a real game before you go insane screaming that the sky is falling and Blizzard is going with it.
not sure about that but how u wanna kill phoenix with mutas now? since the phoenix are much faster its impossible against a good player unless u have like 4 times more mutas... but i wont whine until i played with and against it =) Phoenix is supposed to be hard counter to mutas..Corsair group could rape infinite mutas.. This moving thing wont work against anything else..and phoenix itself isnt good against non light air
corsair doesnt exactly rape infinite mutas at all if were talking about muta scourge here.
mass corsair vs mass muta scourge, zerg can win if he microes it well. (look at some of the games on outsider for example)
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Excellent changes
The only things I disagreed with were HOW they made ultras stronger and brood lords weaker, but everything else was very good. Reducing sentry dmg is the smartest choice to nerfing force field effectiveness.
Archons could probably be buffed a touch more..
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On May 07 2010 06:39 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:35 yoshi_yoshi wrote: Well, people will still use the corruptor ability because there's nothing else to spend the energy on. It's effectively like a secondary attack where the corruptor can do 50 damage or so every minute. Completely bleh. Together with the reduced damage to massive units, the corruptor now kills corrupted Colossi around 5% faster than before. It's not worth the effort. The only thing it is good for is getting rid of that energy to prevent HTs from feedbacking you for 200 damage.
It'd be fun to see Zergs actually use the ability on their own units just to get rid of energy. That should be a hint to Blizz that nobody wants this shitty ability.
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Corruptor ability is pretty boring and feels like a WC3 kind of ability. The old one at least had some uniqueness to it.
I don't see why corruptors really need an ability when they already have one: morph to brood lord. Brood lords are good enough against any enemy.
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On May 07 2010 06:39 Kurr wrote: I think Ultralisks are more viable now. Eager to see if people will start using them a bit more. They are already extremely tough so I think the damage increase will be enough.
How are they more viable when their biggest issue was that they simply didn't get to attack at all because they couldn't catch up with the enemy?
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This is definitivly not the way to go with Phoenixes. Make them counter muta, but make it require good CONTROL and SKILL to do so, not the ability to use a move command.
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