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It is hard to explain, but if you though tech switches were bad before, now they're going to be a thing of legend. It'll be like, your observer sees the spire go up and a bunch of larvae making, oh crap I'd better put up turrets, and then you kill a changeling going through your base that saw your turrets going up, and then suddenly there's no mutas coming anymore, they've been made into roaches instead.
Or perhaps if I get supply blocked making hydras and I have larvae left over, I can cancel the hydras and make roaches instead to make better use of the supply I do have. Or if I make a bunch of drones and realize at the last second that I forgot to use the last larvae for overlord, and there's about to be a bunch of larvae popping, now I can cancel a drone and make an overlord instead with no penalty, thereby unblocking myself up to 15 seconds earlier.
I'm assuming there's no or little penalty. This will make being zerg really simple.
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i like the larva change... but i think it should have a resource cost associated with it... letting zerg get back their larva AND not waste any resources is a little too much... i predict they'll add a cancel cost soon.
being able to swap units and tech switch quickly is something that has always defined the zerg playstyle... this change makes sense and goes well with that style... but i agree it goes just a wee bit far... add a cost for cancelling and i think it'll be fine... honestly even without the cancel cost i don't think this will make hardly any noticeable difference... i guess there just weren't a lot of balance changes to be upset about so people are flipping out over little things because they don't know what else to do.
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I don't think we need so many threads talking about patch 9. There's already like 5-10 of them heh
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On April 23 2010 10:20 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:15 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else. Why are you saying it like T or P are producing only from one rax/gate? They have multiple production buildings just like zerg has larvae. I they can cancel the zealots/immortals while scouting the mutas, why wouldn't zerg be able to cancel the lings while scouting the colossus? It's all fair now.
the thing is that zerg already had the greatest ability to change tech and now it's even faster.
Personally I'll wait and see how this affects the game (no judgments yet) but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
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On April 23 2010 10:09 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:05 sLiniss wrote:On April 23 2010 10:01 Jonoman92 wrote:On April 23 2010 09:59 DeCoup wrote:On April 23 2010 09:48 MasterAsia wrote:
(4) most exciting: now you can cancel a egg and make it back into a larva with 0 cost of any resources! Canceling building/morphing still costs. Oh shit that is hot! That's so retarded... So Z can just pump drones non-stop and if they see you attacking, cancel the drones, which turn into larvae, to pump units... No... if the enemy is moving out with a adequate force, stopping all drone production for combat unit production probably won't save you in time. Yes it will, have you never played zerg before? With the queen larvae mechanic you'll very often have 4+ eggs morphing at a time PER HATCHERY. If those are all pumping drones and you see your opponent start to move out (let's say you're on 2 hatch for example), you can cancel them all and immediately have 8+ roaches/etc being produced. Zerg was already hilariously easy mode with the queen mechanic, and now the tiny pathetically easy to figure out juggle between drones and attacking units is completely wiped out altogether.
ah if it was so pathetically easy then this change should have no effect
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On April 23 2010 10:33 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:28 De4ngus wrote:On April 23 2010 10:20 cyclone25 wrote:On April 23 2010 10:15 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else. Why are you saying it like T or P are producing only from one rax/gate? They have multiple production buildings just like zerg has larvae. I they can cancel the zealots/immortals while scouting the mutas, why wouldn't zerg be able to cancel the lings while scouting the colossus? It's all fair now. Well MAYBE because you can't just turn all of those units into workers and have an unstoppable economy???? Why are you saying it like a zerg produces drones out of 10+ larvae?? It's 3-5 larvae for a good zerg who knows to keep his money low. This is just as much as the number of your production buildings. Also you use a different building to produce proves/scvs. Stop exaggerating ...
Huh? Spawn larva on 2 hatches pops 8 larvae, and it's reasonable to assume there's another larva around on each hatch. 10's a pretty reasonable number larva-wise, though maybe not money-wise. His point remains that zerg has the option of putting all 500 minerals into 10 drones while the other races don't. They do make scv's/probes from a different building but that's a limitation not an asset. You can just as well make one drone and the rest zerglings from your hatchery to "simulate" terran/protoss mechanics. Anyways, we'll see how much that change matters ingame.
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On April 23 2010 10:39 Three wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:09 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 10:05 sLiniss wrote:On April 23 2010 10:01 Jonoman92 wrote:On April 23 2010 09:59 DeCoup wrote:On April 23 2010 09:48 MasterAsia wrote:
(4) most exciting: now you can cancel a egg and make it back into a larva with 0 cost of any resources! Canceling building/morphing still costs. Oh shit that is hot! That's so retarded... So Z can just pump drones non-stop and if they see you attacking, cancel the drones, which turn into larvae, to pump units... No... if the enemy is moving out with a adequate force, stopping all drone production for combat unit production probably won't save you in time. Yes it will, have you never played zerg before? With the queen larvae mechanic you'll very often have 4+ eggs morphing at a time PER HATCHERY. If those are all pumping drones and you see your opponent start to move out (let's say you're on 2 hatch for example), you can cancel them all and immediately have 8+ roaches/etc being produced. Zerg was already hilariously easy mode with the queen mechanic, and now the tiny pathetically easy to figure out juggle between drones and attacking units is completely wiped out altogether. ah if it was so pathetically easy then this change should have no effect
Before it was pathetically easy as in a terrible player could do it.
Now it's pathetically easy in that a mentally handicapped spawn of a monkey and a donkey could pull it off.
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tbh
I think that this change was made incase you did something stupid like press the wrong hotkey
cause sometimes i personally panic when i see a voidray kill a zergling at a watch tower that i hit my hatch button and accidentally make 3 overlords instead of 3 hydras and end up losing there because i hit the wrong hotkey
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sigh.. way to make the game more easymode now i'm really thinking of race changing -_-
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Orb doesn't like anything other than toss buffs.
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On April 23 2010 10:40 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:39 Three wrote:On April 23 2010 10:09 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 10:05 sLiniss wrote:On April 23 2010 10:01 Jonoman92 wrote:On April 23 2010 09:59 DeCoup wrote:On April 23 2010 09:48 MasterAsia wrote:
(4) most exciting: now you can cancel a egg and make it back into a larva with 0 cost of any resources! Canceling building/morphing still costs. Oh shit that is hot! That's so retarded... So Z can just pump drones non-stop and if they see you attacking, cancel the drones, which turn into larvae, to pump units... No... if the enemy is moving out with a adequate force, stopping all drone production for combat unit production probably won't save you in time. Yes it will, have you never played zerg before? With the queen larvae mechanic you'll very often have 4+ eggs morphing at a time PER HATCHERY. If those are all pumping drones and you see your opponent start to move out (let's say you're on 2 hatch for example), you can cancel them all and immediately have 8+ roaches/etc being produced. Zerg was already hilariously easy mode with the queen mechanic, and now the tiny pathetically easy to figure out juggle between drones and attacking units is completely wiped out altogether. ah if it was so pathetically easy then this change should have no effect Before it was pathetically easy as in a terrible player could do it. Now it's pathetically easy in that a mentally handicapped spawn of a monkey and a donkey could pull it off.
are you worried about playing terrible players in platinum and losing? I don't like this change either but your comment is dumb
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Do you loose the resources when you cancel like this as Zerg?
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On April 23 2010 10:17 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:10 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg and even i think that may be a bit imbalanced. There are tons of times when I'm making a long making units like say mutas or corruptors and suddenly realize that my situation has changed. Now I won't have to live with the consequences. Agreed, Thinking back to Day9's economy of larva article, I think that was an important characteristic and part of the decision making process for Zerg.
Interesting reference there, which article are you referring to?
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On April 23 2010 10:40 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:39 Three wrote:On April 23 2010 10:09 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 10:05 sLiniss wrote:On April 23 2010 10:01 Jonoman92 wrote:On April 23 2010 09:59 DeCoup wrote:On April 23 2010 09:48 MasterAsia wrote:
(4) most exciting: now you can cancel a egg and make it back into a larva with 0 cost of any resources! Canceling building/morphing still costs. Oh shit that is hot! That's so retarded... So Z can just pump drones non-stop and if they see you attacking, cancel the drones, which turn into larvae, to pump units... No... if the enemy is moving out with a adequate force, stopping all drone production for combat unit production probably won't save you in time. Yes it will, have you never played zerg before? With the queen larvae mechanic you'll very often have 4+ eggs morphing at a time PER HATCHERY. If those are all pumping drones and you see your opponent start to move out (let's say you're on 2 hatch for example), you can cancel them all and immediately have 8+ roaches/etc being produced. Zerg was already hilariously easy mode with the queen mechanic, and now the tiny pathetically easy to figure out juggle between drones and attacking units is completely wiped out altogether. ah if it was so pathetically easy then this change should have no effect Before it was pathetically easy as in a terrible player could do it. Now it's pathetically easy in that a mentally handicapped spawn of a monkey and a donkey could pull it off.
This change is beyond me.. do they not realize how much this will get abused..The zerg can now change their mind about what units to make on the fly without any penalty at all. As if zergs previous ability to macro wasn't enough?
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Abortions have consequences in today's society,why not in future insect zerg colonies? Maybe allow cancellation without resources but no way the larvae should live...
Then again, maybe this is because they "changed" the hotkeys a little bit and willl be put back to how it was pre-patch before the game goes RC
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lol you guys are blowing this way outta proportion.. its good yeah, but not as huge as people make it out to be. as others mentioned, the situations where you are making drones from a bazillion larvae and see him moving out with an army that would crush you and then all those drones being morphed changing into zerglings make the difference are very, very rare.
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I gotta be honest.. i'm preety fucking noob with zerg and learning when to manage larva economy is one of the difficulties that i'm currently experiencing. One of the methods i use to determine whether to pump drones or units is based on what i see with my scouting. If i see them going with a mass barracks or mass gateway timing push, obviously i'm going to cancel the larva and pull back a bit on the economy. However, its still based on scouting, deny their scouting and you make the zerg player GUESS.
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On April 23 2010 10:50 diehilde wrote:
lol you guys are blowing this way outta proportion.. its good yeah, but not as huge as people make it out to be. as others mentioned, the situations where you are making drones from a bazillion larvae and see him moving out with an army that would crush you and then all those drones being morphed changing into zerglings make the difference are very, very rare.
Indeed. I cant understand how some in this thread are overestimating this change. Its basically just important for less skilled players that do mistakes. Like omg drone 9food while u should build an overlord there so you can cancel it and switch.
Every other race gets to do it so i def makes sense.
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So its overpowered if Zerg can cancel units and make something else, but not when Terran and Protoss can do it? Seeing as how spawn larva has been nerfed, it seems fair for Zerg to be able to do this.
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lol. should be interesting. gonna take a while to get used to it
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EPT
