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On April 23 2010 10:07 cyclone25 wrote:
Btw I'll love this thread -> all zergs agreeing with getting larvae back when you cancel a unit, while P and T hating it.
It's the same as the thread where this was posted: "Can no longer target spells/abilities on your buildings or units by clicking on their icons in the selected unit panel" -> all terrans loving it and zergs hating it.
Personally I think this free cancellation will one day be replaced by either the original way - you lose the larva, or cost 1/4 of the resources. Now it does not make much sense even logically.
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On April 23 2010 10:04 -orb- wrote:
Wow the cancel larvae change is retarded...
I can't believe I agree with you for once, but I do.
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On April 23 2010 10:04 -orb- wrote:
Wow the cancel larvae change is retarded...
QFT
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The reason why it will help is a lot of the time, spawn larvae happens at multiple hatcheries all at once, and then bam 8 or 9 drones in a single shot. If the protoss moves out right at that exact moment, you're screwed. You'll have like maybe 2 to 4 larvae max by the time he gets to your base. But if you can cancel those drones, you will have 16 to 20 more zerglings out than you would have.
Also this means that if I'm unsure if I need zerglings, I can just build them and I have roughly 25 seconds to scout before it is too late to cancel them and make drones.
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i tested it myself queen mechanic is gone oh and if you have a hatchery and a hive you cant select them all tgoather lol really lame
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Definitely agree with orb, but in a bit more mannered way... as he seems to think people are coming at him like they want to fight him.
A huge part of Zerg econ had to do deal with juggling drones and units, and now that it isn't a big deal to just cancel a drone to make a unit is pretty sad. Not to mention in zvz, there is hardly ANY regret to droning up right b4 u would see 6 lings come to your base.. if you see 6 leaving his base, u just cancel a pop 6 lings up..
It really is going to be easy mode for zerg to fend any early game aggression off now it seems, given they weren't excessively teching or something.
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On April 23 2010 10:07 cyclone25 wrote:
Btw I'll love this thread -> all zergs agreeing with getting larvae back when you cancel a unit, while P and T hating it.
It's the same as the thread where this was posted: "Can no longer target spells/abilities on your buildings or units by clicking on their icons in the selected unit panel" -> all terrans loving it and zergs hating it.
Now let me say what you kept saying there (and made me rage): Deal with it!
Except the 4th reply in this thread, which is the only reply that actually stated what their race was, was a zerg calling the change bull... ^^; do you even read these things or do you just go into auto-troll?
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I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else.
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United States22883 Posts
On April 23 2010 10:10 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg and even i think that may be a bit imbalanced. There are tons of times when I'm making a long making units like say mutas or corruptors and suddenly realize that my situation has changed. Now I won't have to live with the consequences.
Agreed, Thinking back to Day9's economy of larva article, I think that was an important characteristic and part of the decision making process for Zerg.
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On April 23 2010 10:15 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else.
I am zerg and I don't like it too.
I think it is the same thing for the protoss warping: you can decide what to make till right before the units coming out.
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On April 23 2010 10:15 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else.
Why are you saying it like T or P are producing only from one rax/gate? They have multiple production buildings just like zerg has larvae. I they can cancel the zealots/immortals while scouting the mutas, why wouldn't zerg be able to cancel the lings while scouting the colossus? It's all fair now.
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Throwing my hat in as a Zerg player who does not like free larvae cancels, if for no other reason than it's just another excuse for people to complain that Zerg is easy. It was an important decision-making aspect, and Larvae had to be treated like a currency in the same way creep had to be treated like a currency.
That being said, I very rarely encounter a situation where I wish I could cancel an egg and get a larvae back. It won't affect my play.
Orb, as a protoss player, you get to dictate what the Zerg must be producing anyway with your Immortal timing pushes (albeit a few seconds slower now). I wouldn't be too concerned.
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On April 23 2010 10:20 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:15 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else. Why are you saying it like T or P are producing only from one rax/gate? They have multiple production buildings just like zerg has larvae. I they can cancel the zealots/immortals while scouting the mutas, why wouldn't zerg be able to cancel the lings while scouting the colossus? It's all fair now.
Well MAYBE because you can't just turn all of those units into workers and have an unstoppable economy????
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On April 23 2010 10:20 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:15 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else. Why are you saying it like T or P are producing only from one rax/gate? They have multiple production buildings just like zerg has larvae. I they can cancel the zealots/immortals while scouting the mutas, why wouldn't zerg be able to cancel the lings while scouting the colossus? It's all fair now.
Sort of, except that zerg also gets the choice of producing drones from all of those "barracks/gates". It'd be perfectly fair if terran/protoss could do that (not saying I'd ever want to see that). People find it unfair because it gives zerg the choice of making 10 drones or 10 hydra without any consequence of changing their mind. All terran can do is decide whether he wants 10 marines or 10 marauders, which I agree is still a powerful choice, but not nearly as powerful as being allowed to make 10 workers. Because that eventually leads to an insane economy and hence a huge unit count.
Zerg is all about droning up hard and pushing the limit of still being "safe" against an attack. I think this change takes alot of the risk of producing too many drones out of the game. That being said it's true that if you produce nothing but drones the extra 10 Hydra you may get from this change won't make a huge difference. But they certainly can. 10 Hydras are alot.
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On April 23 2010 10:20 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:15 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else. Why are you saying it like T or P are producing only from one rax/gate? They have multiple production buildings just like zerg has larvae. I they can cancel the zealots/immortals while scouting the mutas, why wouldn't zerg be able to cancel the lings while scouting the colossus? It's all fair now.
Please stop. If you are completely clueless don't randomly throw in your opinion.
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On April 23 2010 10:28 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:20 cyclone25 wrote:On April 23 2010 10:15 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else. Why are you saying it like T or P are producing only from one rax/gate? They have multiple production buildings just like zerg has larvae. I they can cancel the zealots/immortals while scouting the mutas, why wouldn't zerg be able to cancel the lings while scouting the colossus? It's all fair now. Well MAYBE because you can't just turn all of those units into workers and have an unstoppable economy????
Why are you saying it like a zerg produces drones out of 10+ larvae?? It's 3-5 larvae for a good zerg who knows to keep his money low. This is just as much as the number of your production buildings. Also you use a different building to produce proves/scvs. Stop exaggerating ...
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The egg change might just be a bug, if not this just makes Zerg feel less unique.  
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Yeah, that's fairly op.
But, as zerg, I'll have a field day until they fix it. 
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On April 23 2010 10:11 btlyger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:04 -orb- wrote:
Wow the cancel larvae change is retarded... QFT
It's been like that since day one, I don't know why you care about it now.
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On April 23 2010 10:30 Feefee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 10:20 cyclone25 wrote:On April 23 2010 10:15 onmach wrote:
I'm a zerg, and honestly I don't like that change. It would be like allowing t or p to take back the last 3 units they made out of all their barracks for free and turn them into something else. Why are you saying it like T or P are producing only from one rax/gate? They have multiple production buildings just like zerg has larvae. I they can cancel the zealots/immortals while scouting the mutas, why wouldn't zerg be able to cancel the lings while scouting the colossus? It's all fair now. Sort of, except that zerg also gets the choice of producing drones from all of those "barracks/gates". It'd be perfectly fair if terran/protoss could do that (not saying I'd ever want to see that). People find it unfair because it gives zerg the choice of making 10 drones or 10 hydra without any consequence of changing their mind. All terran can do is decide whether he wants 10 marines or 10 marauders, which I agree is still a powerful choice, but not nearly as powerful as being allowed to make 10 workers. Because that eventually leads to an insane economy and hence a huge unit count. Zerg is all about droning up hard and pushing the limit of still being "safe" against an attack. I think this change takes alot of the risk of producing too many drones out of the game. That being said it's true that if you produce nothing but drones the extra 10 Hydra you may get from this change won't make a huge difference. But they certainly can. 10 Hydras are alot.
they are not the same. If you build 10 hydra, and you think they dont worth it, you can change it into 10 mutas, the meanwhile your hatches are making more larvas and more units. If t decided to cancel 10 marines and swith them into marauders, the time that costed are never back.
Its simple math. Now If a zerg cancels 10 units right before they are done and build some units else, by the time he should have 20 units, he has 20 units.
If a terran cancels 10 units right before they are done and build some units else, by the time he should have 20 units, he only have 10.
Let's think it opposite way:
In the original version, where cancellation = killing larvas.
If terran cancels 10 units right after they are ordered, then the time cost is nearly 0.
and Zerg cancels 10 units right after they are ordered, then the time cost is 10.
It seems that both version make some kind of unfairness.
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EPT
