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On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision.
You "cut it off" but let chibsquad talk about it for 15 minutes
right
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firstly the attacks on milkis from AG were shameful. towards the end where they talked about TL forum posts/translations and how they should be held to a higher journalistic integrity is just a under handed way for EG to artificially insert this sort of rhetoric into the community that would otherwise never of occurred. If this rhetoric somehow brings change to how things are done in regards to translations/articles by non TL and TL staff then its clearly a win for EG. as they now have easier access to controlling all PR related to their brand.
impressive manipulation and also incredibly disingenuous at the same time.
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all in all, anyone watching the airing would of lost respect for EG with the amount of unprofessional, personal attacks on Milkis. Wheat and the EG representative didn't give the chance for Milkis to defend himself, so it was a total one sided attack on a person who just translates things and posts it on a forum without putting personal opinions in it, and has his opinion elsewhere(on twitter).
Then EG coming out and saying Milkis should of contacted them first, Milkis tried to contact SirScoots about the matter, and didn't receive a response and just translated from PlayXP. So that targeted insult should of been directed at the Korean who posted it on PlayXP. If someone translates a post from a different language into English, they should be the target of the attack?
Either way, wheat + EG representative were very unprofessional in their debate making it as one-sided as ever by not giving Milkis a chance to speak, and when he did he was cut off and interrupted. I don't think this show has represented EG in a positive light to people who aren't die-hard EG fans.
I know as an EG fan prior to this, I've lost any fandom I have of them with this entire ordeal. It's unethical to steal a player without contacting management first. And then coming out saying that they've contacted many other Koreans with deals - It's just completely wrong and not how the issue should of been handled. Contacting management on these matters asking them if it's ok to ask said player to be offered such contract and then approaching the said player regardless of the managements talk outcome would of been so much better then this.
EG has started an uproar in Korea that is going to force players to sign a binding contract now, so thanks to them Korean Pro gamers won't have the freedom as they once did.
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AG came off as a mega prick
blaming Milkis is wrong
Not talking to TSL first was wrong
talking when Milkis was wrong
Not being able to produce Home grown talent is wrong
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On July 22 2011 10:42 outerspace02 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision. You "cut it off" but let chibsquad talk about it for 15 minutes right
Totally agree.
Wheat kinda disappointing in u
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On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision.
You did I think. The original topic of Puma and EG is really a symptom of a much larger issue on the horizon as SC2 gets bigger between how each tournament, team and country handles this phenomenon. And the other facet that was unfortunately connected is yet ANOTHER massive issue that some what goes beyond even SC2, and that is the nature of communication by an individual in the era of this hyper-connected world, where the right conditions can turn whole worlds upside down even if it was "just a post." (Not saying Milkis did or didn't do that in this instance, but in general).
Overall a good way to squash, or at least throw water on this fire.
Next Show: SlayerS_Jessica and some dude from Twitter duke it out LIVE!.....on Three. 
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On July 22 2011 10:31 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:25 rotegirte wrote:
Calm down people. Alex went off tangent with the last segment, but don't loose sight of the actual topic which made up the majority of tonight's episode. A lot of heat was generated about the sole fact EG should have contacted TSL officially regardless of the course of action they agreed with Puma on. That is the basic line, nothing else.
Would things have turned out better this way? Definitely. Could EG have made their homework better and educated themselves on that matter beforehand? Definitely. What Alex touched on though is the decision in which direction SC2 should move as a model. And how the specifics of it should look like.
Let's compare it to any other industry: Do western companies have to accustom themselves to the culture of their oversea's business partners? Absolutely. Does it mean such adaption has to be one-sided? Should KR be treated with velvet gloves? No.
The single most important point Alex made is a strictly practical one: Internationally operating organizations cannot only focus on KR. Sure, we all would like to have one giant governing body, a FIA or FIFA. But let's get real, this is not going to happen anytime soon. In the meanwhile it is and will be a struggle for both sides. You have put a large focus on what AG was trying to communicate but i do not think you can ignore how he was attempting to communicate it. The ad hominen and blatant rudeness was a little sad to see on a show that is usually great to watch. Milkis took an article, and translated from Korean to English for us; he did it in a way that presented whatever facts were available to him. EG decided to remain silent on the matter and instead of releasing a PR statement stating the facts, they jump on a podcast and get into a bias, one sided argument that attacks Milkis for what he did? I don't know, it just seems a little strange. AG is a well rehearsed PR face for EG, i don't see why he had to get into such an argument with Milkis, a forum poster. The general opinion is that the way EG went about the PuMa recruitment was against what is considered the correct thing, there is no way to hide that no matter how much you try to belittle people in public.
I am honestly unsure about whether we watched the same episode. If you are only referring to the very last segment, you are absolutely right. It was a low-punch indeed and inappropiate with the actual topic at hand and unneccessary.
But I truly did not observe any over the top rude behaviour throughout the vast majority of the show. From immediate memory I can recall the times Milkis was cut off, Alex did give his reasons to clarify specific standpoints, and he even apologized for having to do it.
I do get the underlying feeling of "david vs goliath", that Milkis obviously isn't a trained debater. But he did well stand on his own right and I do not see the need of getting defensive in his stead. To me at least he delivered his points fairly well. In the same vein as one could point out Milkis "rhetorical disadvantage", are you really going to blame Alex for his ability? Should EG have sent an intern? I will certainly re-watch this episode, but I really didn't feel that hostility that you are referring to.
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Wheat, I stated this in the Puma thread but I'll state it here as well since it's relevant to this particular show. As I'm sure you're aware, whatever stance you took on this issue today was a sort of catch22.
If you were ok with the possibility of EG acquiring Puma (even if you admitted there might have been some shadiness involved), people will still puke out shit that you are biased, etc.
Now if you weren't ok with it, everyone else would think you lack a progressive global esports mentality.
All this kind of sucks, but I hope you do realize the position you're in and don't get flustered over some of the posts about your opinion on the whole thing.
Overall, I thought it was a great show that answered questions, gave more insight on to the inner workings of player acquisition, culture in Korea, etc. Keep up the awesome work! <3<3
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On July 22 2011 10:39 Antoine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:37 Kh0nsu wrote:On July 22 2011 10:33 Antoine wrote:On July 22 2011 10:18 Kh0nsu wrote:
Milkis posted the news prematurely. Every single person that says "EG should have talked to Coach Lee first" is basing their opinion on that premature news. EG had every intent on speaking to Coach Lee but Milkis delivered the news before it happened. Obviously, the news was around in Korean first so there was a serious netizen discussion about this over in Korea, but Korean's don't have much influence over EG. When Milkis translated the news, EG took a shit-pie to the face. If even one person decided to not watch EG Master's Cup or purposefully avoids EG's sponsors as a result, EG has suffered as a result of this situation.
Milkis claims being a neutral party voids him of any responsibility, which is true, but doesn't change the fact he has slightly tarnished a companies reputation.
Instead of taking Alex's approach of posters being held accountable, the companies should be responsible for controlling that information. Ask Puma and Coach Lee to confidentiality and the news would have only surfaced when the story was complete. this is honestly the worst post i've ever seen on this forum. you're suggesting people who want to make information that is ALREADY AVAILABLE, available to more people, wait for everyone to give their side of the story? waiting hand and foot on everyone to come up with their own special spin on the situation? Please re-read. I said Milkis did nothing wrong. The information was public. He didn't do anything wrong. If information is public, translating it is acceptable. My point was that if EG didn't want this news to come out onto PlayXP, they shouldn't have let it. They could have asked Puma for confidentiality but they didn't. I took you saying "milkis posted the news prematurely" as you accusing him of doing something wrong. I agree with your second point that EG should have had some sort of statement ready, since despite their argument that puma is already under contract, he seemingly is under the impression that it's a done enough deal to leave his former team.
The first half of my OP was seemed negative towards Milkis but it was more contextual. I honestly support the idea that this translation, even though hurtful to EG, was totally justified and Alex had no right in pragmatically criticizing Milkis, especially publicly when Milkis was clearly not comfortable.
My argument was if EG didn't want their rep to be tarnished, they should have been more vigilante to protect it.
But please don't call a post I made " the worst thing you have ever seen on TL", especially when you haven't entirely understood it.
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On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision.
Yes but you didn't cut of AG when he attacked Milkis and cut off Milkis before he got a chance to defend himself.
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On July 22 2011 10:42 outerspace02 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision. You "cut it off" but let chibsquad talk about it for 15 minutes right
Agree.
AG start a new topic and attack, keep talking about for 15 mins.
Milkis's turn to defend.
Wheat cut him off.
Repeat that again 3 times.
I was really disappointed
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SPILLED MILK.
I cleaned that shit up.
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On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision.
I think most of your fans know u did your best and it derailed. I'l just blame EG putting for putting U in this position.
tnx for The insight anyway that's what the show is about. time to sleep in europe.
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You needed to have someone on who could spar with AG. Listening to him walk over milkis with swiss cheese rhetoric was fucking painful. Not to mention the diversions, straw men, and unnecessarily verbose [and circular] self-defenses.
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On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision.
At the same time you let AG answer simple questions with 10 minute off-topic rants full of hyperbole. I appreciate the effort in getting people on the show and I don't think you were wrong halting that last discussion, but throughout the entire debate you let AG spin out of control and avoided pinning him to solid answers on most occasions. Was still an entertaining show and I realize you were in a difficult position.
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On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision.
I agree you screwed up too many times. You should find someone who can do the job properly so that we, the community, get a fair view on the issue(s).
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On July 22 2011 10:48 djWHEAT wrote:
Ok. From this point forward I'm never having guests on a show ever again. That will just solve everything. I can't be held accountable for how much a guests talks, or how little he talks.
So, I'll just stop doing it. You fucking paint me as this bad guy... and that's not the case at all.
Fuck it.
The point of being the moderator is to not let someone answer a simple question with a 10 minute off-topic answer.
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On July 22 2011 10:49 Sina92 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision. I agree you screwed up too many times. You should find someone who can do the job properly so that we, the community, get a fair view on the issue(s).
Now that is just stupid. I don't even know where to begin.
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On July 22 2011 10:39 djWHEAT wrote:
Let me begin by saying... I knew this was going to be a tough show. So if some of you want to take one or two things that happened in this show and judge me based on that... then I guess I can't stop you.
I made plenty of mistakes while moderating. And I thought everyone (including Milkis) wanted to hear AG's side of the story (which we got plenty of - and I for one was happy to learn new details about the deal/approach). As that topic began to close and somehow we got on the topic of "how do teams do business", I quickly realized that I was pretty much fucked.
Why?
Cause Milkis admitted that he has basically no knowledge of eSports out of Korea.
So suddenly, I'm sitting here going, well fuck. How in the fuck do you let two guys argue over something will OBVIOUSLY take two VERY DIFFERENT paths. I don't even think Milkis knows that EG has contracted Street Fighter players, etc, and I'm not sure Alex realizes just how deep Milkis' BW roots go.
While everything started out great, I felt like we were suddenly going to take a bad path because we were now arguing from two different perspectives. I did the best I could to balance out the topics and speaking time as much as I could, so I agree I failed there.
However, I want to make a comment about the people who said I cut off Milkis at the end and that they have "lost all respect for me". I DID NOT WANT TO GO INTO THAT DISCUSSION (about the responsibilities of a member/journalist on TL) PERIOD. I even said on air that this was not an appropriate place for this discussion... HOWEVER, I do agree with some things that Alex said on that, and to be fair, it's not like he's the first person to say it.
I was not cutting off Milkis because I was "defending AG" or that I was just trying to be a dick... I was simply trying to stop all discussion on it. Because I didn't want to deter away from the topic at hand. I don't care if it made me look like a dick, cause I feel like I probably saved both of them from going down a road that neither of them wanted to go down.
What I was extremely disappointed with was the fact that he related it to this article, and I didn't think that was appropriate. THAT IS WHY I CUT IT OFF. If you interpreted that as me fucking over Milkis, well then I apologize (especially if Milkis feels that way) - but honestly, it was NOT the time nor place for that discussion so I stopped it. I will take the consequences of doing so like a man, but I feel like I made the right decision.
Its just that you clearly held a double standard when it came to how you treated Milkis and Alex. Its not that you cut Milkis off, but that you didn't cut Alex off. its that you let Alex talk for t he lion's share of the time and yet gave Milkis a little bit. Its that you let Alex give you a ton of his business insight and yet didn't give the same opportunity for Milkis to give his cultural / brood war insight. It artificially creates a situation where Milkis looks incompetent and Alex is the golden boy. And in turn, because we know Alex / EG is your main sponsor and pays your paycheck, your show loses credibility and turns into an EG soapbox. =\
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EPT
