EPTOooh. Fireworks at MLG!
[Show] Weapon of Choice - 7:00 PM EDT - Page 92
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Mikhail
67 Posts
Oooh. Fireworks at MLG! | ||
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xN.07)MaK
Spain1159 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:48 djWHEAT wrote: Ok. From this point forward I'm never having guests on a show ever again. That will just solve everything. I can't be held accountable for how much a guests talks, or how little he talks. So, I'll just stop doing it. You fucking paint me as this bad guy... and that's not the case at all. Fuck it. It's just the personal attack was out of place and you didn't stop it (at least not the attacker). You are not the bad guy, but some of us felt you could do something in that situation to soften it up. | ||
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EtohEtoh
Canada669 Posts
I think you, and everyone else will have to deal with that. We are not perfect unbiased beings, I think you were being biased in the last part of the discussion, the journalism part. I think you did great on the rest though. just say "yes, there might have been some subconcious bias working on me at that point", and there will be less vitriol, there will still be some, but not as much coming from people who can actually think cause I hate to say it, but I honestly don't understand how someone can side with AG on that journalism part | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:56 Stark1 wrote: djWheat is employed by EG, who honestly thought he would be an impartial moderator? Why was a simple translator pitted against EG's head spin doctor to begin with? EG is the one involved and this was kind of their official public statement. And Milkis is, as far as I can tell, the best Korean->English person we have with a lot of experience in Korean culture. Also is an old member the community who is respected and knowledgeable of BW Korean Team organizations and what not. Not exactly fair fight to be sure, but this was on the spot. This wasn't meant to be the end all be all discussion of the topic. Just kind of EG's public statement with Milkis providing Korean context. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
Don't blame Wheat for not being a professional moderator, it's not that easy with guys like AG. At least that's how I hope it was and not that Wheat is so entangled with EG that he's lost all his credibility. | ||
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djWHEAT
United States925 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:56 Stark1 wrote: djWheat is employed by EG, who honestly thought he would be an impartial moderator? Why was a simple translator pitted against EG's head spin doctor to begin with? I am not employed by EG. | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:55 rotegirte wrote: I beg to differ. I found it absolutely neccessary to touch on the business side of things. Some may not want to hear that things don't go all that well for everybody in the KR SC2 scene. That while SC:BW may have been romantic and all that, players living off of trust etc, but at some point it just does not work. That there is money available outside of KR, that tries to get into it. I don't disagree with that part at all, there was good and interesting info that alex gave, I'm not saying it was all fluff. However, there were several questions that he basically avoided and talked about something else he was more comfortable with which is a standard debate tactic and he should have been cut off when he started doing that. That said I understand EG is a partner of the shows and wheat was in a difficult situation, having someone like chill or kennigit on the show would probably have helped in that respect. Not saying wheat is a bad guy in any stretch of the imagination, I just felt on this one show the moderation of the debate was poor, I'm still a fan. | ||
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TheAlchemist89
160 Posts
He happens to agree with one business aspect over the other..... but he was more than fair in allowing both sides to give their points. Wheat you are a boss, and that WeaponOfChoice was the best one I've ever seen. You've definitely gotten at least one new follower of the show. The end of the show degraded somewhat when Alex went after Milkis even though it was prefaced in another light. Milkis definitely was not the reason this story leaked..... the TSL coach was. EG likely should have been prepared for this leaking quickly as it is huge news...... but I can understand them wanting to wait. Puma hadn't signed yet... why would they begin issuing statements? Just an awkward issue all around how badly it was blown out of proportion. Hopefully when the smoke clears the SCII scene can look for mutually beneficial ways to move forward. | ||
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xN.07)MaK
Spain1159 Posts
Problem solved | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:52 turdburgler wrote: since we all know this isnt actually going to happen you could spend your time replying to people you feel make valid points rather than throwing your rattle on the ground Pretty much this... Throwing a temper tantrum with empty threats instead of addressing the issue of his biased mediating. -.- | ||
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Kh0nsu
United Kingdom183 Posts
On July 22 2011 11:01 EtohEtoh wrote: cause I hate to say it, but I honestly don't understand how someone can side with AG on that journalism part I don't think anyone has agreed with him at all in this thread. I was accused of it without posting anything similar to an agreement ( actually opposed to it ), but people see an attack against Milkis, even one as small as an interruption, as fully fledge assault against the rights of the average forum poster or translator. Milkis has a hell of a lot of fans ( rightly so ) but most aren't helping this discussion at all. | ||
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djWHEAT
United States925 Posts
On July 22 2011 11:01 EtohEtoh wrote: DjWheat, you opened the discussion by saying that you're own personal opinion will shine through, during the discussion. I think you, and everyone else will have to deal with that. We are not perfect unbiased beings, I think you were being biased in the last part of the discussion, the journalism part. I think you did great on the rest though. just say "yes, there might have been some subconcious bias working on me at that point", and there will be less vitriol, there will still be some, but not as much coming from people who can actually think cause I hate to say it, but I honestly don't understand how someone can side with AG on that journalism part That's why I didn't want to have the discussion because I didn't feel like ANYONE would be able to make the appropriate comments on the subjects (both for and against it). We could spend an entire week on that topic... it's very similar to the show "professionalism" debate. Yes it was handled poorly, yes I'm upset that it even came up. I made a decision to completely squash the topic after realizing where Alex was going with it and I stopped it because I didn't think it was fair to try to use Milkis as an example. That was NOT ok with me. That's really what I want people to realize. I have my own thoughts and opinions on it, but we were going to go exactly fucking nowhere by discussing the topic. YES Alex said far too much on it and that's when I finally jumped in to stop it. I can only say that I will try to do better when it comes to these sorts of things. It's just very upsetting that people believe I was doing it out of sheer disrespect because that wasn't the case at all. I'm always very respectful of the hosts we have, but I make mistakes too. It's very difficult for me to stay impartial when I have such strong opinions on the things being discussed to. | ||
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Executor1
1353 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:29 turamn wrote: I can't and won't speak for everyone in saying this, but I give 0 shits about what they did and how they did it. Infact, if I had to support a side, I'd say hey, he wasn't contracted, you're screwed. But, for EG to come onto that show, basically be-rate Milkis with loaded questions, tell them that the questions aren't loaded, and then cut him off whenever he started to respond, was fucking retarded. If you're going to invite someone onto a public forum to discuss a topic, you should at least have the decency to let them get a word in. Was Milkis an awesome speaker and prepared? Fuck no, he's not. Especially in comparison. Anyone who thinks that that EG guy didn't have all of this shit prepared way ahead of time is foolish. He's a trained professional who gets paid to do this kind of stuff. To put him on a forum with a biased moderator is pretty fucking cruel, In reality, Milkis probably shouldn't even have accepted the invitation, but how could he have known he was going to get the short end of the stick so badly? And then, after cutting off Milkis an infinite number of times, he begins to personally attack him for his personal opinions, tell him it's not a personal attack, and continue to personal attack him. I can punch you in the face and tell you I didn't mean to do it, but are you really going to say, oh no, it's cool you didn't mean it. He did it because he knew he could get away with it without any retort so he did it, then he proceeded to attempt to stroke the dick of the community to do some damage control. Inviting everyone to PM him and express their opinion to make him seem like the good guy and make him seem like he's super proactive about everything. TLDR: I won't make any arguement against EG's decision and how they did what they did. I firmly believe that they were well within their rights. Some of the actions and things that were said on this show, though, were not acceptable. It was infuriating to listen too and was very unproffesional while still trying to act like a proffesional, but that was that eg guys whole shpiel "this isnt a loaded question (when it is)" "im not personally attacking you" (when he is) Im giving off the vibe of a proffesional (when he isnt). I feel really sorry for milkis he basically got set up. I dont know how EG thought this sort of thing would help them, at least for people like me who actually listened to the nonesense alexy was spouting, it just made the situation worse. He went off on a tangent that had nothing to do with the issue at hand , he tried to make it sound like his decision was benifiting e-sports on a global scale and was setting a precident for other companies to do the same. I think the most ridiculous part was when he said the Korean teams were over reacting because they were going to hold a meeting and set some rules in place to make sure this didnt happen again. Sure EG what EG did was perfectly legal but that doesnt make it right in my eyes, I also look at puma like he kind of sold out. TSL trains him feeds him lets him live in the house, and then he wins a major tournament and shits all over them? that may be an exageration but basically the rising star of TSL was Stolen because the coach (foolishly) thought that they were all in it together, there was even a meeting after fruitdealer and tester left where they agreed that they were all in it together. It sucks for coach lee, and i think that it is not at all an overreaction for the korean teams to hold a meeting and put things in place so that something like this NEVER happens again, contract or not its not fair to teams like TSL and coach lee who invests his own money and basically volunteers as a coach and manager so that his team and e-sports in korea can succeed. Unlike EG right now there are far fewer financial motivators for him to have a star player (their could be more in the future, this is what he is trying to acheive). Puma left TSL out to dry for a most likely "modest" salary from EG which he probably saw as big bucks because he doesnt come from a wealthy background. Also i dont understand how EG is going to create an environment in korea that is going to help him succeed in the future. Are they going to get a teamhouse in korea? are they going to sign more korean players for puma to practice with? those sound like huge investments and from what i understand fromm WOC puma will be staying in korea for the foreseeable future. I dont see how they could provide an environment even close to the TSL training model/ training house. Without going all in on korea, wich Alex stated he didnt want to do and that was one of the reasons for signing puma it was a way to invest in the korean scene without buying a team/ starting up your own team. I guess we will see what happens to puma in the future but as far as im concerned his future is looking far far less bright being a part of EG then it was when he was a homegrown member of TSL where he actually gained the skills to win the NASL.(i know he was an up and comer in broodwar but he wouldnt be where he is today without TSL) Aside from being more financially secure and getting travel stipend to more foreing tournament i dont see how this is benifiting puma, also without a training house i dont see how he will beable to keep up with other top koreans who will be participating in all major foreign tournaments anyways so although the opportunity with EG to travel to more foreign tournaments is a plus i beleive his chances of winning them will go down significantly as the months go by. | ||
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:58 Mikhail wrote: http://twitter.com/#!/Kennigit/status/94221903941746689 Oooh. Fireworks at MLG! Fireworks, Kennigit talking to Wheat about how Kespa will rule SC2 instead of sending 50 twitter messages? | ||
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djWHEAT
United States925 Posts
On July 22 2011 11:04 nvs. wrote: Pretty much this... Throwing a temper tantrum with empty threats instead of addressing the issue of his biased mediating. -.- So is everything I've ever done of biased mediating? | ||
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Valmar
Finland8 Posts
In my opinion the topic was rushed into the show (by community demand) and it came quite quickly obvious that DJwheat was not prepared for it and it got out of control. I sincerely hope that DJWheat is just writing in the heat of the moment and does not really mean that there will be no more guests in his shows because it would be a real loss to the e-sports community. Lastly i want to apologize for my English, it is far from decent. | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
On July 22 2011 11:04 nvs. wrote: Pretty much this... Throwing a temper tantrum with empty threats instead of addressing the issue of his biased mediating. -.- He did say it was poorly moderated at times? What him crucified too? | ||
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alexhard
Sweden317 Posts
As a journalist and a moderator on your very own show, you DO have the ability to regulate how much people talk and what they say. I would go as far to say that not only do you have the ability, but also the responsibility to do so. If you do not, your show will go from journalism to a glorified advertising medium, though of course it isn't there at this time. When a guest is giving long-winded non-answers, stop them and pressure them on giving an actual answer. When they start out with "I'm not a racist but"-style comments, cut them off and call them on it. When someone is trying to give a rebuttal on an (unfounded) personal attack, don't cut them off. When someone is trying to set the agenda using false premises ("translators are journalists"), intervene. I must admit AG is extremely good at his job. He's an extremely good rhetorician: he knows how to speak, and he knows how to make a fallacious argument seem legitimate. EG wouldn't keep sending him on your shows if he did not. But part of your job as host and journalist is to outwit him and call him out when he's talking crap. I don't think you're incapable of that, and as such I don't think you should stop having guests on your shows that I have enjoyed in the past and will continue to enjoy in the future... | ||
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djWHEAT
United States925 Posts
On July 22 2011 11:08 Valmar wrote: I sincerely hope that DJWheat is just writing in the heat of the moment and does not really mean that there will be no more guests in his shows because it would be a real loss to the e-sports community. Yes I wrote that in the heat of the moment. I get emotional too. I pulled a Coach Lee. | ||
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Andross
Colombia50 Posts
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