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I think people are just confused. It i not like Kespa decided to create the sc bw scene in korea. It is not like Kespa could create prof. starcraft from nothing.
As far as i know, starcraft became very popular by iteself in korea. It became so popular on its own ( not kespa ) , that people started making money off it by marketing it.
Players did not get paid in general, just the very best. The rest played like a slave.
Then Boxer came and said: " i only play for you when not only me but all of my team gets paid " and thus the 1st prof.team was founded where all players got salary.
Later KESPA came and said: " You need us to make all prof. starcraft and for rules and regulations"
Everyone was like, sounds fine to me to make it all prof. and solid, but in the end did not do much, but took a lot of money.
When a lot of money was not enough anymore, KESPA sold proleague rights that they did not even own. Somehow they got away with selling somebody else´s stuff, quite the baller move ^^.
In the end, everyone who is shouting " ALL THE MIGHT TO KESPA!! " should be instead shouting " ALL THE MIGHT TO BOXER " , since not only made starcraft popular, but he also fought for the players rights.
Everything kespa did do right, wasnt kespa´s but boxer´s work.
When Boxer would be running kespa, and i mean ruling it, then everyone would be happy. I guess Blizzard + Boxer would work.
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The only real issue is will SC2 be a better Esport than bw. If Koreans stop to play bw and enjoy to play SC2 more there will be a potential audience for this game and Kespa will have to find an agreement with Blizzard.
But to be fair i think that SC2 will kill war3 in Korea and bw will still remain #1st for a while.
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Yeah doesn't really make sense to try to fight blizzard, what could they really hope to accomplish lol. The teams are just hurting themselves doing this shit.
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On March 04 2010 03:09 mnofstl007 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2010 02:58 member1987 wrote:
Kespa should back off, as Blizzard can sue their asses for intellectual rights and end-user license agreement breach.
Kespa has no right what so ever to license, manage and/or profit from selling SC television broadcasting rights.
actually they cant, as much as they would like to. Due to laws in korea they cant.
Do you have any details about this law that allows broadcast of other companies intellectual rights? Whats stopping television stations over there from showing new movies on TV or making copies of video games and selling it to the public? I'm assuming MBC and OGN are pay to watch (cable subscription) channels, aren't they making money off someone elses property?
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On March 04 2010 00:59 Polis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2010 00:32 niteReloaded wrote:Blizzard made the cow, Kespa is just taking the milk. And now they've mistaken the two and think they have a word on what the cow should do next. Ridiculous analogy, esport is not something that run on its own if you have a game. Right or wrong teams are behind KeSPA, and OGN/MBC is behind KeSPA. Ever heard of relations between retailers, and producers? Show nested quote +On March 04 2010 00:32 niteReloaded wrote:A good lawyer could probably shut down the whole thing if Blizzard decided to do it. Oh really? Why there was so many cases won against EULA in USA? You think that it would be easier to enforce "made up by Blizzard laws" in Korea?
Whatever, usually when somebody makes something and the other person makes money off of it, you don't have to try too hard to make a case.
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Russian Federation410 Posts
Way too much BS in this thread.
1. KeSPA = OGN + MBC + Teams (ex- KPGA). It's a regulator, a financier and a promoter, without it a lot of teams would've gone bankrupt, when TV ratings started tumbling it was formed to centralize an pull together what was a disorganized scene into the most powerful e-Sports scene of them all, it spread among half a dozen countries.
2. OGN and MBC bought the rights for unlimited StarCraft broadcasting from Blizzard back in 2001, reportedly for a very modest prize, Blizzard can't sue shit.
3. Kespa spread among half a dozen countries, working closely with corresponding Korean, Chinese and Japanese government offices, it's currently in talks to create a branch in the UK. A few months before starting to heavily invest in GOM, Blizzard turned to Korean Ministry of Culture (not sure about the name), they were officially sent to deal with KeSPA.
4. Blizzard didn't put much effort into supporting StarCraft. Every single patch was late, it took 3 years and 13 patches to more or less balance the game. Blizzard never supported or updated Battle.net. After canceling 2nd expantions for StarCraft and Diablo they moved on to B.net 1.5 with War3 and later to WoW. KeSPA picked up StarCraft support where Blizzard left with paid professional mapmakers, advanced broadcasting features and so on.
As for StarCraft II, there's no way Blizzard can pull it without KeSPA. They need teams and players for promotion, KeSPA to create and regulate a scene, OGN and MBC to broadcast it. More importantly, the need the game to get the quasi-religious following like StarCraft did, and I don't think it will get to this point at all, whether with KeSPA or Blizzard, whoever.
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Blizzard has a lot of money to spend on developing their own progaming scene, especially a foreign one. However, the Korean progaming scene is by far the largest and well organized. Kespa will definitely lose in the long term by fighting Blizzard especially because they have no foreign pull, but they could delay and even destroy the SCII scene in Korea
However they have much to gain if they work together. Blizzard and Kespa will both need to swallow their overwhelming desire for complete control (e.g. Blizzard canceling LAN and Kespa barring players from GOM and BlizzCon)
the gains of a partnership would be enormous for both, imagine teams and TV already running from day 1 with sponsors all lined up, it would be fabulous.
There is so much to gain it will be a real shame if both of them stay on their proverbial horses and refuse to come down so I hope both of them will read this thread and reconsider what they are doing before they both feel too insulted to stop screwing each other over
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On March 04 2010 03:32 nMn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2010 03:09 mnofstl007 wrote:On March 04 2010 02:58 member1987 wrote:
Kespa should back off, as Blizzard can sue their asses for intellectual rights and end-user license agreement breach.
Kespa has no right what so ever to license, manage and/or profit from selling SC television broadcasting rights.
actually they cant, as much as they would like to. Due to laws in korea they cant. Do you have any details about this law that allows broadcast of other companies intellectual rights? Whats stopping television stations over there from showing new movies on TV or making copies of video games and selling it to the public? I'm assuming MBC and OGN are pay to watch (cable subscription) channels, aren't they making money off someone elses property?
You people really don't see a difference between showing games played in game x, and copying that game, and selling it? Seriously? Games makes money from selling them, MBC/OGN don't sell SC:BW, they just show it. Movies make money from showing it, and that is a complete product, game alone is not a league that you can broadcast. What about game magazines you also think that they should not have a right to publish screen-shots from the games? Damn even some pirates review the game in video format, and show it when they talk about, what stop those people from broadcasting movies?
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Russian Federation410 Posts
^No, even in Korea you can't do commercial broadcasts featuring games without a license. OGN/MBC acquired one from Blizzard a long time ago. The only difference between movies/tv-shows and games, is that with movies, having a legal copy, you don't have the right for both commercial and non-commercial public broadcasts (except for educational purposes), with games you can do non-commercial broadcasts only, which is why Livestream StarCraft II feed would be completely legal.
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On March 03 2010 19:47 MaD.pYrO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2010 19:43 T.O.P. wrote:
I wonder. Do Blizzard retains all rights to games played by it's users? If I play a game, does Blizzard own my replay? If they don't how can Blizzard charge for a license when it's the players (Kespa) who are creating the content? Your replay is just a file on your computer, there's no real ownership to it so it's not quite the same. But if you intended to make money off of showing your replay Blizzard would be entitled to a piece of the cake since they spent 7 years + and alot of money and hard work on creating the game that you would essentially be making money off of. With that being said, seeing how Blizzard sponsored GOM and made them "certified" it really seems like they want to support E-Sport financially, not charge for it, they just want the control of what people are doing with their game, and don't want others to profit from their work. Edit: They don't own "The match" that you played, they just own the platform you played it on, a match is just a series of specific events in time.
now I havent studied law myself or anything, but it really sounds like you dont actually have a clue what you are talking about. Especially the very first sentence.
If I record a song and render it as an mp3 I dont own it because it's just a file on my computer? what?
Or maybe it belongs to Steinberg, because they created the program that I produced my song with, hmm.
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On March 04 2010 03:16 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2010 03:08 Vedic wrote:On March 04 2010 02:58 member1987 wrote:
Kespa should back off, as Blizzard can sue their asses for intellectual rights and end-user license agreement breach.
Kespa has no right what so ever to license, manage and/or profit from selling SC television broadcasting rights.
They already tried and failed. What kind of fucked up laws do they have in Korea? Can I move there and start selling rights to display football on tv? That makes no god damn sense to me.
No you have to pay all the money to the ball producer like in other countries.
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On March 04 2010 04:05 Polis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2010 03:32 nMn wrote:On March 04 2010 03:09 mnofstl007 wrote:On March 04 2010 02:58 member1987 wrote:
Kespa should back off, as Blizzard can sue their asses for intellectual rights and end-user license agreement breach.
Kespa has no right what so ever to license, manage and/or profit from selling SC television broadcasting rights.
actually they cant, as much as they would like to. Due to laws in korea they cant. Do you have any details about this law that allows broadcast of other companies intellectual rights? Whats stopping television stations over there from showing new movies on TV or making copies of video games and selling it to the public? I'm assuming MBC and OGN are pay to watch (cable subscription) channels, aren't they making money off someone elses property? You people really don't see a difference between showing games played in game x, and copying that game, and selling it? Seriously? Games makes money from selling them, MBC/OGN don't sell SC:BW, they just show it. Movies make money from showing it, and that is a complete product, game alone is not a league that you can broadcast. What about game magazines you also think that they should not have a right to publish screen-shots from the games? Damn even some pirates review the game in video format, and show it when they talk about, what stop those people from broadcasting movies?
Theres no difference between broadcasting movies on tv and broadcasting video games on tv, they're both used for commercial value. Whether you're watching a videogame or playing a movie with a fake controller, theres still money being made off material that is not legally yours.
Game magazines do have to get permission to publish screen-shots from videogame companies actually.
I don't really understand what you mean by pirates, sorry :<
Thanks for clearing up the 2001 licensing agreement though, I had no idea.
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According to my Korean friend, almost every single SC fan/players is supporting Kespa on this matter. This is a war that Blizzard cannot win. Perhaps they should try harder to work together with Kespa instead of trying to oust it
Then players probably have no choice on choosing sides.
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You might see semi-pro teams take up Blizzard's offers because of KeSPA's arrogance. I actually don't mind seeing this because the competition will be just as fierce, but it might spoil all the time we've spent putting into watching these pro teams and players evolve to see KeSPA keep them away from SC2.
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Ill qoute Aristotle in saying that kespa,"can suck my left dangling nut".
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On March 04 2010 04:28 mmdmmd wrote:
According to my Korean friend, almost every single SC fan/players is supporting Kespa on this matter. This is a war that Blizzard cannot win. Perhaps they should try harder to work together with Kespa instead of trying to oust it
lol you do realize that there's a lot more hatred for KESPA in Korean bbs than on TL, right?
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On March 04 2010 04:23 nMn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2010 04:05 Polis wrote:On March 04 2010 03:32 nMn wrote:On March 04 2010 03:09 mnofstl007 wrote:On March 04 2010 02:58 member1987 wrote:
Kespa should back off, as Blizzard can sue their asses for intellectual rights and end-user license agreement breach.
Kespa has no right what so ever to license, manage and/or profit from selling SC television broadcasting rights.
actually they cant, as much as they would like to. Due to laws in korea they cant. Do you have any details about this law that allows broadcast of other companies intellectual rights? Whats stopping television stations over there from showing new movies on TV or making copies of video games and selling it to the public? I'm assuming MBC and OGN are pay to watch (cable subscription) channels, aren't they making money off someone elses property? You people really don't see a difference between showing games played in game x, and copying that game, and selling it? Seriously? Games makes money from selling them, MBC/OGN don't sell SC:BW, they just show it. Movies make money from showing it, and that is a complete product, game alone is not a league that you can broadcast. What about game magazines you also think that they should not have a right to publish screen-shots from the games? Damn even some pirates review the game in video format, and show it when they talk about, what stop those people from broadcasting movies? Theres no difference between broadcasting movies on tv and broadcasting video games on tv, they're both used for commercial value. Whether you're watching a videogame or playing a movie with a fake controller, theres still money being made off material that is not legally yours. Game magazines do have to get permission to publish screen-shots from videogame companies actually.
What about "fair use" laws?
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Blizzard stop being greedy and have your own ideas. Damn, when we needed updates and help with SC bw stuff to make it better, Blizzard didn't give a shit about community or whatever. Korea/Kespa made sc bw what it is today and there would be no fucking hype like this about SC2, if there wasn't Korean progaming. Blizzard should just thank them and maybe help create progaming SC2 teams outside Korea and finally support the community, which they are making money of! Also give us the damn Diablo 3!
Yeah it would be so funny if Korea just boycott SC 2 - i would laugh my ass away so hard.
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On March 04 2010 03:41 Go0g3n wrote:
4. Blizzard didn't put much effort into supporting StarCraft. Every single patch was late, it took 3 years and 13 patches to more or less balance the game. Blizzard never supported or updated Battle.net. After canceling 2nd expantions for StarCraft and Diablo they moved on to B.net 1.5 with War3 and later to WoW. KeSPA picked up StarCraft support where Blizzard left with paid professional mapmakers, advanced broadcasting features and so on.
Why is it that everyone seems to hold Blizzard to such a ridiculously high standard? How many other developers release patches for 3 year old games? How many developers still maintain an online service for a twelve year old game?
By any reasonable standards, Blizzard's support for Starcraft was exceptionally good.
However, it is of course true that a large part of Starcraft's huge success is due to the Korean community, of which Kespa is a very important part.
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Isn't that the government that threaten blizzard to not sell sc2 in korea if ever they didn't acknowledge KesPa?
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EPT
