The increased effectiveness of Zealots probably has a lot to do with the universal SC2 increased Protoss shield-regeneration rate out of combat--basically, out of combat, the shields regenerate at a vastly increased rate, quickly bringing them back up again to full. This doesn't make the Zealot stronger in a one-up battle--but it does give it a longer life in and around various small skirmishes. Zerglings, however, have vastly improved pathfinding, which should also make them more effective against Zealots, as they are able to surround them more easily and effectively--did you notice this at all? On paper, this should balance out somewhat early game...but it'll take beta for us to know for sure.

It's a nice article, though--I always enjoy reading first-hand accounts of SC2.

Shadowfury333

Canada314 Posts

September 02 2009 21:20 GMT

#42

6 Zerglings would quickly surround the Zealots, and after that there was no room. The 8 mentioned before would involve some sideline lings. Despite this, the Zerglings still went down quickly.

Zato-1

Chile4253 Posts

September 02 2009 22:31 GMT

#43

On September 03 2009 06:20 Shadowfury333 wrote:
6 Zerglings would quickly surround the Zealots, and after that there was no room. The 8 mentioned before would involve some sideline lings. Despite this, the Zerglings still went down quickly.

I see. Thanks for the article Shadowfury, it's always nice to see new content- gives us something to talk about.

professorjoak

318 Posts

September 02 2009 22:51 GMT

#44

On September 02 2009 21:17 Kaniol wrote:

Show nested quote +

Photon Cannons don't deal explosive dmg, they deal normal

Photon Cannons were explosive damage in Starcraft 1.00 and 1.01.

As a side note, Zerg were brokenly good in that era, as hatcheries spit out larvae at 1.5x the rate and build times for almost everything were decreased.

DeCoup

Australia1933 Posts

September 03 2009 00:17 GMT

#45

All attacks deal and take full damage from all attacks. The replacement for the explosive/concussive system is bonus damage. Which is much better because it is more intuitive (don't have to know or remember or calculate) and easier for new players to grasp. I bet is makes balancing a lot easier too.

KingHillBilly

United States105 Posts

September 03 2009 01:12 GMT

#46

4 zerglings kill a zealot without any zergling micro. Whoever said it's 8 or 6, you're just plain wrong.

Tsagacity

United States2124 Posts

September 03 2009 01:14 GMT

#47

Maybe he was sending the lings in 1 at a time >.<

Jobbies

Scotland72 Posts

September 03 2009 01:15 GMT

#48

On September 03 2009 10:12 KingHillBilly wrote:
4 zerglings kill a zealot without any zergling micro. Whoever said it's 8 or 6, you're just plain wrong.

Wrong game.

IceCube

Croatia1403 Posts

September 03 2009 01:18 GMT

#49

On September 03 2009 10:14 Tsagacity wrote:
Maybe he was sending the lings in 1 at a time >.<

T_T yup and giving time between for shield regenerate. Anyhow most of this article is complete garb to me. I felt this is a write up from some person that haven't played sc1 in higher lvl than fighting vs comp AI...

Wr3k

Canada2533 Posts

September 03 2009 01:30 GMT

#50

This article sounds like it was written by someone who doesn't know anything about SC.

snorlax

United States755 Posts

September 03 2009 01:42 GMT

#51

I felt that it was quite a good write up and lots of information to atleast work with especially if you haven't gotten a chance to read SC2

ArvickHero

10387 Posts

September 03 2009 01:44 GMT

#52

Hot Bid's article just totally trounced this one's..

genryou

Malaysia390 Posts

September 03 2009 02:57 GMT

#53

This article became invalid in less then 24 hours

Pretty much summarize how fast TL staff can re-conquer the internet.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

September 03 2009 03:24 GMT

#54

On September 03 2009 10:30 Wr3k wrote:
This article sounds like it was written by someone who doesn't know anything about SC.

99% of people from gamereplays know nothing about SC. Or metagame of RTS games. They'll probably reduce the amount of larva that spawn injection gives, 4 sounds like it's extremely too much.

Shadowfury333

Canada314 Posts

September 03 2009 03:29 GMT

#55

Hot_Bid's article focused on the new macro mechanic, mine on the units. They are two different points of focus, so I don't see how one trounced the other. I mostly experimented with 2 hatch builds, as 1 hatch builds weren't something I would have considered consistently feasible, let alone overpowered. Given that it was only two days, I barely had time to break out of my BW habits. The idea of playing Zerg without a second hatchery early game seemed about as natural as unassisted flight. I'm glad someone found a way to make early game Zerg work, and I wish I had spoken to them during Blizzcon.

On September 03 2009 12:24 avilo wrote:
99% of people from gamereplays know nothing about SC. Or metagame of RTS games. They'll probably reduce the amount of larva that spawn injection gives, 4 sounds like it's extremely too much.

Given that Gamereplays.org focuses on multiple games, this is not surprising. The StarCraft 2 section has knowledgeable people, but they can be counted on two hands, and they are pretty much all on staff.

Hot_Bid

Braavos36402 Posts

September 03 2009 03:37 GMT

#56

I wouldn't fault you, its counter intuitive to not make 2 hatcheries. Its not like any of us were experts on the game. I know exactly nothing on any units past tier 1 (aside from the ultralisk). Most of the first day we were doing 2-hatch builds as well. And just about everyone thought Zerg was weak and defensive -- until they played someone who abused the larvae mechanic off 1 hatch.

edit: about the zergling/zealot ratio, i didn't find it all that different than SC1 tbh

Stratos_speAr

United States6959 Posts

September 03 2009 04:01 GMT

#57

On September 03 2009 03:32 Zelniq wrote:
this is exactly what i've been worried about with the goddamned 2 gas mechanic.. zerg gets fucked over because of their smaller worker count

combine this with the lack of a strong midgame ground unit, zerg seems to be in a rough position right now

and what he meant by the "removal of explosive damage" problem is that mutalisks in sc1 would take half damage from many units/buildings, which is now gone

Wait, what? Have you watched games/read feedback from people who've actually played at Blizzcon? 1 Hatch Zerg is EXTREMELY powerful apparently, with no direct counters.

Hot_Bid

Braavos36402 Posts

September 03 2009 04:04 GMT

#58

yeah its actually the exact opposite, Zerg can saturate 2 gas + minerals easily off 1 hatch and has a non-gas intensive extremely strong tier 1 (hydra) with no direct tier 1 counter from T or P. when the hydra speed kicks in, its really really hard to beat 1-hatch hydra with just marines or zealots, as they are slower than hydras.

genryou

Malaysia390 Posts

September 03 2009 04:26 GMT

#59

Is it possible to contain the Z with Marines by limiting their exit path with depot? or does the unit gap is just too great for this too succeed?

Hot_Bid

Braavos36402 Posts

September 03 2009 04:42 GMT

#60

On September 03 2009 13:26 genryou wrote:
Is it possible to contain the Z with Marines by limiting their exit path with depot? or does the unit gap is just too great for this too succeed?

i mean i guess anything is feasible if they don't scout it, but you will instantly die to lings you can't get enough marines to the Zerg choke in time. Z can just make so many lings early that 2 rax wont be able to move out.