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Gamereplays.org posts it's thoughts on Zerg. - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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genryou
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Malaysia390 Posts
September 03 2009 04:56 GMT
#61
hmmrh, its hard to imagine how fast and how many lings can pop out that even 2 rax wont be able to move out. '__'

If only T still have Medic, Firebat or a Vulture.
I, Challenge Everything
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
September 03 2009 05:29 GMT
#62
On September 03 2009 13:56 genryou wrote:
hmmrh, its hard to imagine how fast and how many lings can pop out that even 2 rax wont be able to move out. '__'

If only T still have Medic, Firebat or a Vulture.


The macro potential with the Queen is astounding.

P.S. Vulture + Firebat = Hellion. ^^
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
genryou
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Malaysia390 Posts
September 03 2009 05:45 GMT
#63
P.S. Vulture + Firebat = Hellion. ^^


but Hellion didnt have Spider Mine. I think it will be useful to have Spider Mine to delayed Z 1-Based Hydras, and as far as I know, only Overseer capable of detection.

Unfortunately, I cannot think of any units from SC2 that can keep up with Z production other than Marines.
I, Challenge Everything
Jobbies
Profile Joined May 2009
Scotland72 Posts
September 03 2009 09:56 GMT
#64
Perhaps Terrans would have to take advantage heavily of the reactor upgrade for both rax in a 2 rax build?
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
September 03 2009 11:18 GMT
#65
On September 03 2009 14:45 genryou wrote:
Unfortunately, I cannot think of any units from SC2 that can keep up with Z production other than Marines.


Good. Zerg = massed forces. I hope hydra become a bit less powerful than they were in SC1 and become a massed unit too. As long as the other races can deal with it, I like the idea of more Zerg base units becomming even more massed than they use to be. Higher tier units should still be designed to be used (required?) in lesser numbers tho.

Everyone always talks about how they think of the Zerg as a massed force, but when it comes down to it in actualy gameplay apart from lings and muta most of their units are not really used in mass in the way we like to imagine Zerg as.
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
September 03 2009 13:05 GMT
#66
On September 03 2009 10:44 ArvickHero wrote:
Hot Bid's article just totally trounced this one's..

Where is Hot Bids article? I can't find it
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
September 03 2009 13:06 GMT
#67
Check the news forum DeCoup
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
September 03 2009 13:33 GMT
#68
Got it -.-"
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
KingHillBilly
Profile Joined November 2007
United States105 Posts
September 03 2009 17:20 GMT
#69
On September 03 2009 10:15 Jobbies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2009 10:12 KingHillBilly wrote:
4 zerglings kill a zealot without any zergling micro. Whoever said it's 8 or 6, you're just plain wrong.


Wrong game.



I'm sorry, I'm talking about SC2. Which game are you talking about? =p
Simply the Best
Aegraen
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1225 Posts
September 03 2009 17:28 GMT
#70
Hydra's are considered a Light unit therefore you should be able to keep up with 2 rax + addon = 4 rax and then tech to hellions. You will force the Zerg to keep forces in defense due to the insane speed of Hellions. 100 MIN is insanely cheap for hellions also. I'm curious did anyone try wall + 2rax addon > Hellion harass into Medi + M with stim? Having 4 extra larva every 25-30 seconds shouldn't give such a large boost as to have 4x the amount of units as your opponent at the 5-6 min mark.

It's too early to definitively say if anything is OP. I'm sure given two days people would be saying Shuttle - Reaver would be OP.
"It is easy to be conspicuously 'compassionate' if others are being forced to pay the cost." -- Murray N. Rothbard -- Rand Paul 2010 -- Ron Paul 2012
Shadowfury333
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada314 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-03 18:15:10
September 03 2009 18:12 GMT
#71
On September 04 2009 02:28 Aegraen wrote:
Hydra's are considered a Light unit therefore you should be able to keep up with 2 rax + addon = 4 rax and then tech to hellions. You will force the Zerg to keep forces in defense due to the insane speed of Hellions. 100 MIN is insanely cheap for hellions also. I'm curious did anyone try wall + 2rax addon > Hellion harass into Medi + M with stim? Having 4 extra larva every 25-30 seconds shouldn't give such a large boost as to have 4x the amount of units as your opponent at the 5-6 min mark.

It's too early to definitively say if anything is OP. I'm sure given two days people would be saying Shuttle - Reaver would be OP.


Yes, a few people did try mass Hellions against me. I think one of them was inReach, but I'm not really sure. It would have been one of the first games of Blizzcon. Some of the other Gamereplays.org members I played against did use that as Terran.

Hellions with their damage upgrade can completely mop the floor with Hydralisks, something I failed to take into account at first. I mean, coming from SC, where hydralisks beat vultures, and hydralisks beat firebats, why shouldn't hydralisks beat the combination? Simply put, the hellions have amazing range. Mind you, with all that larva, one can simply get a few dozen roaches to handle the hellions.
Darkness called...but I was on the phone, so I missed him. I tried to *69 darkness, but his machine picked up. I yelled "Pick up the phone, Darkness", but he ignored me. Darkness must have been screening his calls.
Aegraen
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1225 Posts
September 03 2009 18:20 GMT
#72
On September 04 2009 03:12 Shadowfury333 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 02:28 Aegraen wrote:
Hydra's are considered a Light unit therefore you should be able to keep up with 2 rax + addon = 4 rax and then tech to hellions. You will force the Zerg to keep forces in defense due to the insane speed of Hellions. 100 MIN is insanely cheap for hellions also. I'm curious did anyone try wall + 2rax addon > Hellion harass into Medi + M with stim? Having 4 extra larva every 25-30 seconds shouldn't give such a large boost as to have 4x the amount of units as your opponent at the 5-6 min mark.

It's too early to definitively say if anything is OP. I'm sure given two days people would be saying Shuttle - Reaver would be OP.


Yes, a few people did try mass Hellions against me. I think one of them was inReach, but I'm not really sure. It would have been one of the first games of Blizzcon. Some of the other Gamereplays.org members I played against did use that as Terran.

Hellions with their damage upgrade can completely mop the floor with Hydralisks, something I failed to take into account at first. I mean, coming from SC, where hydralisks beat vultures, and hydralisks beat firebats, why shouldn't hydralisks beat the combination? Simply put, the hellions have amazing range. Mind you, with all that larva, one can simply get a few dozen roaches to handle the hellions.


The point of the Hellion aren't to take on the Hydra head-on, they are to use their speed and harass the Zerg base to keep the hydras for use as defense and not offense. Delaying them enough to get enough Medi+Marines stimmed with some tank support. This ultimately would force the Zerg to use their mins in defensive structures or keeping hydra's behind, either way keeping them occupied in their base.

To me, I see the zerg being most susceptible to M+M (Not so much marauder as I'd rather spend the gas on tanks/vikes), with tank and viking support. That's what I'm going to be focusing on if I get into the Beta.

I'm curious how do vikings fare against hydra's? 2 Port + addon viking might seriously hurt the zerg by crippling his supply.
"It is easy to be conspicuously 'compassionate' if others are being forced to pay the cost." -- Murray N. Rothbard -- Rand Paul 2010 -- Ron Paul 2012
Shadowfury333
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada314 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-03 19:07:10
September 03 2009 19:03 GMT
#73
On September 04 2009 03:20 Aegraen wrote:The point of the Hellion aren't to take on the Hydra head-on, they are to use their speed and harass the Zerg base to keep the hydras for use as defense and not offense. Delaying them enough to get enough Medi+Marines stimmed with some tank support. This ultimately would force the Zerg to use their mins in defensive structures or keeping hydra's behind, either way keeping them occupied in their base.


That may not be the point, but with equal or even slightly lower numbers, it works. Don't forget that Factories also have Reactors.

On September 04 2009 03:20 Aegraen wrote:To me, I see the zerg being most susceptible to M+M (Not so much marauder as I'd rather spend the gas on tanks/vikes), with tank and viking support. That's what I'm going to be focusing on if I get into the Beta.


I'm curious to see how that turns out. Most Terrans (of the seven or so) I faced either went marine heavy, sometimes with tank support, or hellion heavy. Hellion heavy worked better, but then again I didn't realize roaches were meant to counter hellions. After I learned that, I ended up only facing Protoss, with a couple Zerg matches here and there, so I never got to test it.

On September 04 2009 03:20 Aegraen wrote:I'm curious how do vikings fare against hydra's? 2 Port + addon viking might seriously hurt the zerg by crippling his supply.


I didn't see much viking use, and when it was used against my mutalisks, the vikings died quite quickly. If there were marines around, they had an easier time, but I was pretty much guaranteed to come ahead against a few unsupported vikings with a group of mutalisks.
Darkness called...but I was on the phone, so I missed him. I tried to *69 darkness, but his machine picked up. I yelled "Pick up the phone, Darkness", but he ignored me. Darkness must have been screening his calls.
Aegraen
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1225 Posts
September 03 2009 19:19 GMT
#74
On September 04 2009 04:03 Shadowfury333 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 03:20 Aegraen wrote:The point of the Hellion aren't to take on the Hydra head-on, they are to use their speed and harass the Zerg base to keep the hydras for use as defense and not offense. Delaying them enough to get enough Medi+Marines stimmed with some tank support. This ultimately would force the Zerg to use their mins in defensive structures or keeping hydra's behind, either way keeping them occupied in their base.


That may not be the point, but with equal or even slightly lower numbers, it works. Don't forget that Factories also have Reactors.

Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 03:20 Aegraen wrote:To me, I see the zerg being most susceptible to M+M (Not so much marauder as I'd rather spend the gas on tanks/vikes), with tank and viking support. That's what I'm going to be focusing on if I get into the Beta.


I'm curious to see how that turns out. Most Terrans (of the seven or so) I faced either went marine heavy, sometimes with tank support, or hellion heavy. Hellion heavy worked better, but then again I didn't realize roaches were meant to counter hellions. After I learned that, I ended up only facing Protoss, with a couple Zerg matches here and there, so I never got to test it.

Show nested quote +
On September 04 2009 03:20 Aegraen wrote:I'm curious how do vikings fare against hydra's? 2 Port + addon viking might seriously hurt the zerg by crippling his supply.


I didn't see much viking use, and when it was used against my mutalisks, the vikings died quite quickly. If there were marines around, they had an easier time, but I was pretty much guaranteed to come ahead against a few unsupported vikings with a group of mutalisks.


Of course a group of muta's will defeat a few of any thing. Equal numbers favor the viking especially with their ridiculous 10 range. Anyways, all speculation, BETA is taking way too long to get released...
"It is easy to be conspicuously 'compassionate' if others are being forced to pay the cost." -- Murray N. Rothbard -- Rand Paul 2010 -- Ron Paul 2012
Jobbies
Profile Joined May 2009
Scotland72 Posts
September 04 2009 23:14 GMT
#75
Another member of Gamereplays released another article on Zerg, don't think we had anyone who actually played Terran or Toss :S

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/portals.php?show=page&name=starcraft-2-elegy-zerg-at-blizzcon-2009
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
September 04 2009 23:19 GMT
#76
On September 05 2009 08:14 Jobbies wrote:
Another member of Gamereplays released another article on Zerg, don't think we had anyone who actually played Terran or Toss :S

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/portals.php?show=page&name=starcraft-2-elegy-zerg-at-blizzcon-2009

We did, they just haven't written stuff up yet.
Jobbies
Profile Joined May 2009
Scotland72 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-04 23:30:12
September 04 2009 23:29 GMT
#77
On September 05 2009 08:19 Kennigit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2009 08:14 Jobbies wrote:
Another member of Gamereplays released another article on Zerg, don't think we had anyone who actually played Terran or Toss :S

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/portals.php?show=page&name=starcraft-2-elegy-zerg-at-blizzcon-2009

We did, they just haven't written stuff up yet.



Good :D Looking forward to reading about Terran myself.
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
September 04 2009 23:56 GMT
#78
just curious, How exactly is the Roach (now a damage soaker which does not regenerate while above ground) a counter to hellions? Or do you mean Hydra/Roach combo?
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15325 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-05 00:11:07
September 05 2009 00:08 GMT
#79
On September 05 2009 08:14 Jobbies wrote:
Another member of Gamereplays released another article on Zerg, don't think we had anyone who actually played Terran or Toss :S

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/portals.php?show=page&name=starcraft-2-elegy-zerg-at-blizzcon-2009

This one really good, you can tell the guy knows what's up. Agree with most of what he writes. Too bad for him he mostly played scrubs :-(

Oh wait it's you right? Good job on the article. Next time say hi to the TL nerds and get foes, not victims :-)
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Jobbies
Profile Joined May 2009
Scotland72 Posts
September 05 2009 00:15 GMT
#80
On September 05 2009 09:08 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2009 08:14 Jobbies wrote:
Another member of Gamereplays released another article on Zerg, don't think we had anyone who actually played Terran or Toss :S

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/portals.php?show=page&name=starcraft-2-elegy-zerg-at-blizzcon-2009

This one really good, you can tell the guy knows what's up. Agree with most of what he writes. Too bad for him he mostly played scrubs :-(

Oh wait it's you right? Good job on the article. Next time say hi to the TL nerds and get foes, not victims :-)



No it wasn't me there playing SC2 at BlizzCon unfortunately lol! Wihs I could have gone, Scotland's too far away. The gamereplays system has a thing where whoever posts the content, not necessarily writes it, it will say "by *content posters name*" so that's why my name appears. It was by a guy called Elegy who's a member on Gamereplays. I'll forward him to you post though, he'll be pleased with that response .
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