EPT(I'm writing this although I hate being rushed)
Gamereplays.org posts it's thoughts on Zerg. - Page 2
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KungKras
Sweden484 Posts
(I'm writing this although I hate being rushed) | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
The harder issue to fix is the weak mid-game (lair tech), and dual-gas mechanic problem | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On September 03 2009 03:32 Zelniq wrote: this is exactly what i've been worried about with the goddamned 2 gas mechanic.. zerg gets fucked over because of their smaller worker count combine this with the lack of a strong midgame ground unit, zerg seems to be in a rough position right now and what he meant by the "removal of explosive damage" problem is that mutalisks in sc1 would take half damage from many units/buildings, which is now gone That's the thing, see. It's not gone. Take a SC2 Missile Turret. It deals 21 damage per attack to armored units like a Viking, while it only deals 14 damage to light units like a Mutalisk. Or take a SC2 Marauder, which deals 24 damage per attack against armored units like Roaches but it only deals 12 damage per attack against light units like a Zergling. Does that sound like explosive damage to you? 'cause it sure sounds like explosive damage to me. As I said in a post above, the biggest difference lies in how large the damage reduction/bonus due to armor type is. In Brood Wars, a muta would take 50% as much damage as a wraith when attacked by a missile turret, while in SC2 so far, a muta would take 66% as much damage as a viking against a missile turret. | ||
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rockon1215
United States612 Posts
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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Stickfoot
Canada7 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
hive tech lurker really makes little to no sense at all, especially with their mobility problem. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
In SC2, if you move Lurkers to Lair tech, then Hive tech would be necessary for Ultras, Brood Lords, and maybe some upgrades like crack upgrade for lings. Only 2 new units does seem a little weaksauce for Hive tech, even if one of them is the mighty Ultralisk. | ||
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Sharp-eYe
Canada642 Posts
I hope the zerg become as flexible as they were in sc1 or else the feel of the zerg would be taken away. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On September 03 2009 04:42 Sharp-eYe wrote: :/ imo this is all the gas mechanics fault... I wonder why its so hard to get the usual 1 geyser that has a certain amount of gas in it. 2 gas that shut dodwn periodically doesnt seem very intuitive to me... but then again there was TONS of discussion on this already. I hope the zerg become as flexible as they were in sc1 or else the feel of the zerg would be taken away. Your information is outdated- 2 gas geysers that shut down periodically is a thing of the past. Current builds, I am told, have 2 gas geysers, period. Each of these contains 2500 vespene gas (one geyser from BW contains 5000 gas), and once depleted, you can no longer mine any gas from them. One worker trip nets you 4 gas, down from 8 gas in BW, so operating both geysers at full capacity will give you the same gas intake as 1 geyser from BW and your geysers will take just as long to deplete, but you'll need double the investment to mine at full capacity (2 extractors / assimilators / refineries, plus 6 workers). | ||
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Johnny B
United States76 Posts
On September 02 2009 21:17 Kaniol wrote: Photon Cannons don't deal explosive dmg, they deal normal  Yeah, the author is behind the times. The change from explosive to normal damage was made looong ago. + Show Spoiler + - patch 1.02 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Flying units no longer receive 'cover' from terrain features. - Fixed the bug when cancelling a guardian in high latency games that killed the mutalisk and gave multiple refunds. - Fixed the bug that could sometimes cause a map editor, hit point modified siege tank's hit points to be incorrect after transforming. - Time elapsed while the game is paused no longer counts toward total elapsed game time. - Increased the cost of a Zerg Hatchery from 300 to 350 minerals. - Changed the damage type of the Photon Cannon weapon system from explosion to normal. - Preplaced heroes for the AI will now auto acquire targets and defend themselves. - Fixed a bug that could potentially, in high latency games, over-charge zerg players when morphing larva into units. - Modified the 'Free For All' game type so that the rules of diplomacy apply to computer players. (Computer players are no longer allied in FFA.) Also, made FFA available for single player custom games. - Fixed the crash that occurred when selecting a unit type, that would normally have shields, configured to have 0 shields via the map editor. - Fixed the bug that bumped people back to the race select screen after they had completed a single player campaign mission. - (Battle.net) Create game screen will now display ladder game speed as 'Fast' instead of 'Faster'. - (Battle.net) Profile draw code will now handle different sized destination windows. - Fixed 'attach to incomplete addon' crash bug. - Added three new Computer AI scripts for use with the map editor (Protoss Insane, Terran Insane, Zerg Insane) to be used in custom campaign levels. - Fixed bug that played the incorrect 'complete' sound for addons. - Fixed bug that prevented rescued tanks and goliaths from acquiring targets correctly. - Fixed bug that caused Starcraft to allocate unnecessary amounts of memory while running minimized. - Fixed bug that could cause maps with a large number of pre-placed units to crash at load time. - Fixed bug that, in rare cases, could cause game to crash when certain types of units died. - Fixed bug that caused access violation when maps with unplaceable units were loaded. - Fixed bug that caused access violation when any zerg air unit died while cloaked by an arbiter. - (StarEdit) Fixed bug that prevented changes to Norad II Hero unit weapon damage fields - (StarEdit) Mineral patches and geyser are now limited to 50,000. - (StarEdit) Added exception handler. - (StarEdit) Fixed bug that made it impossible to remove Map Revealers via a trigger. - (StarEdit) Fixed bug that could cause triggers to 'disappear' on systems using large fonts. - (StarEdit) Fixed bug that allows powerups to be placed in invalid locations on high terrain - (StarInst) Fixed minor over-calculation of disk space used by saved games for uninstall. - (StarInst) Moved file pre-cache requests to the install scripts. - (StarInst) Added support for multiple events per screen item without the use of sub-scripts. - (StarInst) Eliminated unnecessary screen refreshes. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
At least he's right about 13 pool --> Queen being the best build. Expect an article about it in a few days. | ||
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Aegraen
United States1225 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On September 03 2009 05:11 ArvickHero wrote: Is the Infestor Tier 2? If it is then move it to Tier 3 and bring back the Lurker to Tier 2, and then have a range upgrade for the Lurker in Tier 3, since they obviously want the Lurker to have that insane range The Infestor is currently Tier 2, yes. It may not have Dark Swarm or Plague, but it's more accessible than the Defiler is in BW. Your proposition makes sense, but I'd say it seems the SC2 devs want to get rid of Dark Swarm and Plague as much as they wanted to get rid of Medics, so the Infestor will probably keep these spells that are far less tide-turning in a fight (and yet Spawn Infested Marines looks like a nice spell for endgame resource starvation scenarios). With its current spell array, the Infestor looks a little weak for Hive tech. Also note that, much like the Ultralisk, the Lurker is a very different beast from what you see in BW. With 200 health, up to 30 damage per attack (15 +15 vs. armored) and range 9, I doubt you'll just be able to take them out safely with some stalkers and an observer- although Immortals look like a strong counter. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3128 Posts
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Shadowfury333
Canada314 Posts
On September 03 2009 04:59 Hot_Bid wrote: Well, I read the article and after playing 50+ games of Zerg at Blizzcon I (and the other staff there, Zatic Chill Intrigue) came to the exact opposite conclusions. At least he's right about 13 pool --> Queen being the best build. Expect an article about it in a few days. I wish I had met up with you during Blizzcon. I talked to Psyonic, iCCup.Cold, and a little bit to inControl, but I would've liked to hear your input. On September 03 2009 05:29 Captain Peabody wrote: All information at this stage is very...subjective. I've seen different articles about SC2 where people say literally opposite things about the exact same unit or ability. The thing is, playing for such a limited amount of time, you're never really going to be able to find the true "usefulness" of a unit, because you don't have time to work out how to use it to its fullest extent. A lot of what we're getting is sort of "instant impressions"--I build a unit, it doesn't work very well, so I don't build it again for the rest of my games. Such things should not be necessarily taken at face value. Indeed. I was quite nervous about writing this article for exactly that reason. I would have preferred a good few weeks, with frequent discussion between everyone. Alas, we only got 2 days. I'm glad to hear that Blizzard did compensate for the explosive/concussive damage type removal. I looked briefly(i.e. 1 second) at some unit stats, and found many returning units had the same stats. I hadn't looked closely enough to see if they compensated for the damage type change. As for the photon cannon/mutalisk thing and zergling/zealot thing, I was honestly quite confused at the way they worked out myself, and forgot about the Photon cannon dealing normal damage. I'm still not sure why Zerglings and Zealots interact the way they do now. Also, I found Missile turrets easier to knock down without dying, as I believe their firing rate is reduced. I found Vikings easy to dispatch with 8+ mutalisks. | ||
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Noah
Norway164 Posts
Sure it's interesting to hear how the game seems to be like now, but balancewise it will be a completely different game that what was tested at Blizzcon. I'm 100% confident that this game will be balanced at release. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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