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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
Does anyone actually believes SC2 will not be the greatest game ever even with noob bashing ? Sounds more like they want to prevent massive migration to UMS, and that will happen anyway, because noobs cant handle having all the fault of their defeat on them and thats why the play mostly 2v2+ or UMS | ||
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Matrijs
United States147 Posts
On September 01 2009 03:19 D10 wrote: I have a fundamental belief that noobs need to be bashed to be put in their places. This is an excellent way to stifle the game's growth. Noobs who get bashed over and over don't "get put in their places," they quit playing entirely and tell their friends that the game sucks. If you're actually interested in a vibrant online scene, noob-bashing needs to be prevented. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On September 01 2009 04:54 Matrijs wrote: This is an excellent way to stifle the game's growth. Noobs who get bashed over and over don't "get put in their places," they quit playing entirely and tell their friends that the game sucks. If you're actually interested in a vibrant online scene, noob-bashing needs to be prevented. Not at all, just look at WC3FT, noobs got bashed, migrated to DOTA, both rocked and overall the game only started dying when SC2 was announced. QQ more noobs, it works. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On September 01 2009 02:38 TheYango wrote: So basically this is the ideal solution that both sides reached separately like 20 pages ago without realizing it. EDIT: Reading that interview some more, Battle.net 2.0 is sounding more and more like Steam, which I can't say is a bad thing. not exactly...they are just referring to what they're PLANNING to do...bnet 2.0 isn't out yet so they're not done with it and so those things aren't finalized yet. but anyway i do think they'll make it all work out somehow. they put their best effort into starcraft, and now they seem to be doing it again with sc2. this time they see potential for a perfect ladder system...haha. and i don't think it's going to happen, but just because it's been delayed so long should encourage us to think that it'll be better than they initially planned. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On September 01 2009 06:06 D10 wrote: I'm sure there are plenty that quit entirely instead of switching to DOTA. Not at all, just look at WC3FT, noobs got bashed, migrated to DOTA, both rocked and overall the game only started dying when SC2 was announced. QQ more noobs, it works. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 01 2009 06:06 D10 wrote: Not at all, just look at WC3FT, noobs got bashed, migrated to DOTA, both rocked and overall the game only started dying when SC2 was announced. QQ more noobs, it works. There's not really a logical connection there. Just because newbs got bashed in WC3 and it did well doesn't in any way mean it was good for the game. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On September 01 2009 06:13 TheYango wrote: There's not really a logical connection there. Just because newbs got bashed in WC3 and it did well doesn't in any way mean it was good for the game. Wheres the evidence that noobs wont quit anyway ? | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
Blizzard knows how to make popular games. Somehow that doesn´t include a "like it or leave it" mentality regarding new players, just look at WoW. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On September 01 2009 07:01 D10 wrote: Some noobs will quit. Some hardcore will quit too. People will quit every day for various reasons. It should be obvious that noob stomping will encourage people to quit though.Wheres the evidence that noobs wont quit anyway ? People don't have fun getting roflstomped -> roflstomping is rampant -> game is significantly less fun for those players -> those players quit because the game isn't very fun. Without a doubt, Blizzard can't hope to retain every noob, but it shouldn't take empirical evidence to convince you that players are more likely to quit if they aren't having fun. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
Its about more about a persons capacity to resist frustration than the skill level in itself. Most people will get frustrated that they are not leet, and will migrate to UMS or quit, and newb stomping may hasten this effect, but let me argue that with AMM, a hugeee player base, and tons and tons of newbies, newbie games versus smurfs will represent only a small % of the games said newbie will play, and therefore ill say that newbies complain not of being stomped by smurfs, but try to justify losing in itself on others abusing the system, other than their own faults they are so noob they cant distinguish a legitimate loss against a loss from a smurf. Therefore, bash em out, they wont even know the difference | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On September 01 2009 07:40 D10 wrote: A newby's penchant for getting roflstomped isn't something you can agree or disagree with.I dont agree that newbies dislike getting roflstomped. but let me argue that with AMM, a hugeee player base, and tons and tons of newbies, newbie games versus smurfs will represent only a small % of the games said newbie will play The smaller the number, the better, which is exactly what this system is doing. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
On September 01 2009 07:01 D10 wrote: Wheres the evidence that noobs wont quit anyway ? Ugh, regardless, why make their experience as painful as possible? Anti-noob bashing is GOOD. Stopping people from creating multiple accounts, is bad. They solve this easily by simply having new accounts start at a higher level. Why would you have a problem with the newest players being protected from getting totally destroyed in their first game? For every player who it doesn't bother, there's gonna be a ton that just wanted to have a nice, even game and is now put off by the whole experience. Sooner or later everyone is gonna run into someone much, much better than them. Having it happen outside of your first 10 games is probably a good idea, however. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
If I start playing the game and my first match is against some super newbie and I stomp him that prevented this how ? My point is, dont try to stop the sun from rising. Newbie bashing is the essence of being a newbie. It doesnt need to happen everytime, but since it will happen anyway, why try to take away this ? What If I make a newbie bashing accout with 10% win ratio, where I dc/lose on purpose only to stay in newbie range and stomp them ? | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On September 01 2009 07:50 D10 wrote: Just because it's not guaranteed preventable, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to discourage it.Theres not way to guarantee that 100% Seriously, most annoying excuse ever, and people are using it ALL the damn time. It's the same as the people saying "People will still hack the game so why try to stop piracy?" No one here has claimed it's a cure-all destined to dawn a new era of the noob, we're just saying these are good measures for DISCOURAGING something bad. Newbie bashing is the essence of being a newbie. Not if the newbies are playing other newbies.What If I make a newbie bashing accout with 10% win ratio, where I dc/lose on purpose only to stay in newbie range and stomp them? You could also buy multiple accounts, or get account info from a friend who has a worse record. Once again, the system isn't a panacea for noobs, but it's a hell of a lot friendlier for them than something like iccup where someone's ego-binge is only a clearstats away. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
On September 01 2009 07:50 D10 wrote: Theres not way to guarantee that 100% If I start playing the game and my first match is against some super newbie and I stomp him that prevented this how ? My point is, dont try to stop the sun from rising. Newbie bashing is the essence of being a newbie. It doesnt need to happen everytime, but since it will happen anyway, why try to take away this ? What If I make a newbie bashing accout with 10% win ratio, where I dc/lose on purpose only to stay in newbie range and stomp them ? Why have police, they aren't going to be able to stop every murder anyway. In fact, why do anything, we are all gonna die anyway. EDIT: Why write this post, when TsagaCity already covered everything?  | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On September 01 2009 02:20 Tsagacity wrote: That's really complicated You could just have a mutual friends list, kind of like the one on steam, which is exactly what the bnet panel made it look like What is complicated in that? IDK about programming part, but i dont think that this isn't doable. If we really think that only 1 account is bad thing, then we can't hope that Blizz will change their decision. Instead we have to focus on what's bad with that. IMO only problem is "lessenned privacy" and putting pass to pm you fixes this problem ideally. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
And I agree with the measures taken by Blizzard. Im just saying, newbies will get stomped, and im wondering what they will cry about this time. | ||
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gameguard
Korea (South)2132 Posts
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On September 01 2009 08:03 Kaniol wrote: I don't mean technically. Your solution is probably a lot easier in terms of programming What is complicated in that? IDK about programming part, but i dont think that this isn't doable. If we really think that only 1 account is bad thing, then we can't hope that Blizz will change their decision. Instead we have to focus on what's bad with that. IMO only problem is "lessenned privacy" and putting pass to pm you fixes this problem ideally. I mean it's complicated in the part where you and all your friends are memorizing DND passwords. It's a lot easier to just have a full-feature friend's list. On September 01 2009 08:15 gameguard wrote: If you did nothing to prevent it, and had easy things like new accounts or a /clearstats, my answer would be "A shit ton."honestly how many people do you think will smurf and noob bash? | ||
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