EPTI would have preferred to see Light to Armored with the transformation. Much more interesting.
HotS Balance Update #3 [9/20/2012] - Page 31
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
I would have preferred to see Light to Armored with the transformation. Much more interesting. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
Battle Hellion While in Battle mode, the hellion is now classified as a Biological unit. honestly it makes no sense, how can a mechanical unit become biological >> nice about widow mine change tho | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:48 RaiKageRyu wrote: But... it makes no sense to change from mechanical to biological..... I would have preferred to see Light to Armored with the transformation. Much more interesting. The issue with that is it would mean the only non owned by immortal factory unit would get owned by the immortal. | ||
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Blackknight232
United States169 Posts
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
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Rah
United States973 Posts
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:49 zhurai wrote: honestly it makes no sense, how can a mechanical unit become biological >> nice about widow mine change tho I dont really understand people who complain about this. everything about this game is way out of place mutas flap wings in space battlecruiser is way to small marines can kill a battlecruiser with rifles immortals cant aim up (seriously aim up and fire) etc etc | ||
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OptIn
United States19 Posts
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KuyzzTV
Peru16 Posts
widdow mines op | ||
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mage36
415 Posts
On September 22 2012 11:28 Rah wrote: They should just release Broodwar with upgraded graphics at this rate. They can't do it better. Everything is just a Broodwar unit with slight differences. As time goes on they make it more like the Broodwar unit because that's what works. Figure it out already.. Exactly! Some say that we shouldn't compare BW to SC2 because it's a different game, but a lot of the units they have introduced are based on BW units. Makes it hard not to compare when most of the original ones seem more interesting. I respect them more for their ideas that are new even if they don't pan out. And I'll surely respect them when they admit their mistakes, such as the case was with the warhound. | ||
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dbald27
United States49 Posts
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:59 Blackknight232 wrote: i think the most simple solution tbfh is just to put the Science Vessel back in. I mean shit how much more broken can the game get? Science Vessel's heals mechanical units, medis heal bio so it's a win win for the terran with just one unit so that way bio still gets the medis and mechers get a healer as well I was thinking a BW styled Science Vessel might work well in tvp using mech... Defensive Matrix on siege tanks to help against Immortals. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
They're not lurkers, they're swarm hosts! It's a battle-hellion, not a firebat! It's a widow mine, not a spider mine! I wish they'd swallow their pride a bit more so we wouldn't have to deal with subpar implementations of BW ideas. | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
On September 22 2012 15:49 Hinanawi wrote: Blizzard is trying really hard to make it like BW without actually making it BW. They're not lurkers, they're swarm hosts! It's a battle-hellion, not a firebat! It's a widow mine, not a spider mine! I wish they'd swallow their pride a bit more so we wouldn't have to deal with subpar implementations of BW ideas. I think you hit the nail on the head there  | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
On September 22 2012 15:49 Hinanawi wrote: Blizzard is trying really hard to make it like BW without actually making it BW. They're not lurkers, they're swarm hosts! It's a battle-hellion, not a firebat! It's a widow mine, not a spider mine! I wish they'd swallow their pride a bit more so we wouldn't have to deal with subpar implementations of BW ideas. Yeah, I agree. And also the Warhound... Funny how it took Blizzard 2 years to come up with: - Widow mine <--- like a spider mine, but can't be used to control space in the same way cos of the cost and supply requirement. - Warhound <--- A terrible unit which everybody said was terrible before even playing the game by just reading its specs. - Battle hellion <--- hellion was kind of a mix between the vulure and firebat. now it can also be a firebat. Hots was also supposed to include an upgrade to the BC called redline reactor, What happened to it? Some early beta testers discovered that ravens move at 2.5 speed and HSM costs only 100 mana. This was found to be a "bug" which was removed. The BC damage buff to ground unit was also a "bug". Also the Warhound had to be removed as it was essentially a marauder. Seriously, if they cant be more imaginative than this , why don't they add some more designers to the team? There has got to be a lot of in-house talent over there. Hellions in bunkers and mines that hit air are just dumb ideas. Don't they want terran players to buy the expansion? Hell, I'll work for free Right now, mech TvP is not looking all that attractive. MMM + BH looks better though. Ironically the battlehellion might synergize better with bio than with mech in TvP because it can be healed by medivacs and will be one hell of a counter to chargelots. I am not implying that they should just copy units from BW as this would be equally unimaginative. What the terran race need is: TvP: This matchup definitely needs some variation. Large parts of the terran tech tree is almost never used in pro level games. Big and expensive units like BC , Thor and Raven are all very sensitive to feedback which means that investing in them is very risky. Making mech more viable should be a top priority. For this mech needs: A way to control space that doesn't take up supply so that mech can be more attractive. Spider mines solved this in BW, but don't just copy spider mines or make a gimped version of it trying to give it a role which is not useful for mech. The shredder was a step in the right direction. Try to make that concept work instead or come up with something new. A unit that acts as a buffer in front of tanks to deal with mass chargelots etc. The battle hellion seems to address this. However, the suggestion to make it biological will have the effect that archons are stronger versus it. What happens if the protoss just goes lighter on zealots and more heavy on archons? Also, once the colossus and HT numbers grow I think that even the battle hellions will melt as quick as normal hellions does today. The battle hellion might be very good, but does it fill this role properly? A unit that gives factory tech better anti air vs single targets and armored flying units. Alternatively , the viking could be redesigned so that a goliath type unit is not needed. Tweaking the viking so that its ground attack had longer range and a higher rate of fire but lower damage could be interesting. Then it could be used to deal with immortals while providing anti air and spotting for the mech army if necessary. This would also introduce some interesting micro and decision making. Mech attack upgrades will affect the ground attack of the viking. This strengthens the synergy between factory and starport tech and gives a logical reason as to why the BW goliath was scrapped. TvZ: The gap between the strong terran midgame and the strong terran ultra lategame with ravens and BCs is too big. Terran needs to be able to make this transition more smoothly. When a raven spawns you have to wait 50s with the energy upgrade for the seeker missile to be ready to use. The seeker missile needs to be tweaked so that its mana cost can be reduced to 100. TvT is fine. One of the best matchups in the game. Don't touch it or you will piss off the E-sport gods! I want to see something creative. Not this fiddling around with numbers on the widow mine. If they insist on keeping the mine and the battle hellion in its current forms they should be ballsy and do something like: Make Battle Hellion a separate unit made from the factory with a biological qualifier. Remove the ability to transform it to a normal hellion and give hellions the ability to lay up to 3 mines for 25 minerals each. Make the mines static once deployed but increase their splash by a lot. Mines do not hit air. Make this a 200 min 200 gas upgrade that takes 120+ s and an armory and make it so that only hellions built after the upgrade becomes mine layers. This way mines will not be abused in the early game but instead be a late game option for terrans to control space on large maps once they are on 4+ bases and mass mine spam will be harder to perform. Perhaps mines should not target workers because this would make hellion drops much stronger. Normal hellions and battle hellions will ideally both be needed and one must be careful to not make too many of one sort. This will require good planning and game sense and further help to reduce mine overuse. | ||
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NeBu321
Poland42 Posts
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:34 monkybone wrote: Say you want a widow mine marine timing. The point is that you have to expend those 100/200 minerals on depots maybe 30 seconds earlier than you would if the widow mine was 1 supply. This is 4 marines, which is crucial for early timings. Or it's a starport 30 seconds later, which means a medievac 30 seconds later. For timings, the actual resources extra spent is irrelevant, the relevant thing is what you need to have money for right now. And that is depots, which is not attacking units. Ok, let's think about those exact numbers: 100 minerals and 200. If the mines being 2 supply is costing you 100 minerals, you're making 10 mines, and you're down 2 marines. That assumes the gas and minerals line up exactly - you could be down one marine, or none at all (maybe skip an SCV?). Whatever, it certainly doesn't take 30 seconds at that point to mine up to 100 minerals. If the mines are costing you 200 extra minerals, you're making 20 mines. That's not an 'early timing', and the extra 200 minerals are, again, not going to take 30 seconds to mine, even assuming the minerals/gas line up perfectly. | ||
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CrtBalorda
Slovenia704 Posts
I guess they brought back the firebat, except it has not stim, not that it should. It always felt like in brood war firebats shoudnt have had stim, but hey I guess medics were annyoing enough when the hid the stim icon from you. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
By Mengsk's beard! So much belly aching! | ||
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