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HotS Balance Update #3 [9/20/2012] - Page 30

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
779 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 39 Next All
PiLoKo
Profile Joined January 2011
Mexico144 Posts
September 21 2012 20:08 GMT
#581
On September 22 2012 04:27 Xapti wrote:
Maybe it's OK balance-wise (or maybe not),

but the concept of something mechanical transforming into something biological is absolutely absurd and far beyond any suspension of disbelief.

For that reason alone I don't like this change.


Frankly they should just change hellion to firebat and give firebat some sort of speed upgrade if necessary (I say if necessary because in my opinion the reaper could/should be a unit useable the way the hellion is now, just like how vulture were in SC2 (personally I've been a fan of giving reapers an explosive charge ability)


Well if you think of it as the driver being on a suit using the hellion parts as armor, weapon and shields it is no different from a marauder as its survability would relly on human health also
I like to troll in-game :)
Freezd
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States139 Posts
September 21 2012 21:08 GMT
#582
Finally a balanced widow mine, hopefully we'll see pros use them more in mid game.
"I can't help it if I seem homophobic when the only gay people I know have pink highlights, wear hundreds of colorful bracelets and live at the local arcade playing DDR." - Youngminii
sweetbabyjesus
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark168 Posts
September 21 2012 21:10 GMT
#583
On September 22 2012 05:04 Existor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 04:52 krell wrote:
Mech-Bio transformation makes about as much sense as a siege tank doing double the damage against heavily armored units than against light, unarmored ones. Wouldn't you say? I feel like it should be the other way around, then make thors good against armored stuff. There i Fixed mech.


Siege tanks already do damage against armored units. And thors already have tons of HP and dmg output


That's what he said. Tanks do 15+ against units armored with layers and layers of titanium plates, and normal damage against loincloth wearing zealots. Sense much? In reality it would be the other way 'round. But it's all for balance so okay in my book.
Crabs
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
September 21 2012 21:13 GMT
#584
--- Nuked ---
travdood
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States58 Posts
September 21 2012 21:20 GMT
#585
On September 22 2012 06:13 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 06:10 sweetbabyjesus wrote:
On September 22 2012 05:04 Existor wrote:
On September 22 2012 04:52 krell wrote:
Mech-Bio transformation makes about as much sense as a siege tank doing double the damage against heavily armored units than against light, unarmored ones. Wouldn't you say? I feel like it should be the other way around, then make thors good against armored stuff. There i Fixed mech.


Siege tanks already do damage against armored units. And thors already have tons of HP and dmg output


That's what he said. Tanks do 15+ against units armored with layers and layers of titanium plates, and normal damage against loincloth wearing zealots. Sense much? In reality it would be the other way 'round. But it's all for balance so okay in my book.


It does make sense, in reality tank shells are in fact anti-armor.


Agreed. Tank shells are designed to pierce through armor and barriers. They're not built to fight infantry. Otherwise, you could just load up any explosive. Anything that blows up will hill people. Though if tanks have a shot of a bunch of troops, of course they take it.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that this is StarCraft. We suspended our disbeliefs loooooooong before balance issues when we took an interest in this franchise, lol.
People often trade what they want most for what they want at the moment.
The_Darkness
Profile Joined December 2011
United States910 Posts
September 21 2012 21:39 GMT
#586
On September 22 2012 04:08 nimdil wrote:
Isn't the whole Hellion change making the game unbelievable? I mean the game is supposed to fit a genre and I don't see how bio/mech transformer can really do that.



Terran already have three units that transform -- vikings, tanks (siege mode) and thors (250mm strike cannons). How is this somehow less believable? Is a transforming hellion less or more believable than a towering robot that can walk up cliffs and shoot lazer beams at its opponents or a corruptor which morphs in 45 seconds into a giant flying mantaray which defies the laws of physics by floating above the ground? I don't understand the "believable" / "realism" line of criticism about a video game. The question should be -- Will it be fun for casuals to use? Will it make pro games more interesting? Then answer to these questions seems to be yes
To be is to be the value of a bound variable.
nakedsurfer
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada500 Posts
September 21 2012 21:55 GMT
#587
60 is too much. I said from the start that the splash damage should be increased. Only to 40 or 45 though.

60 splash is too intense. 3-5 spider mines can rape just about everything now. I don't like the battle hellion change. It makes no sense.
Root4Root
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
September 21 2012 22:11 GMT
#588
--- Nuked ---
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 22:20:54
September 21 2012 22:20 GMT
#589
What I don't understand is why one unit turns from mechanical into biological while the actual buff of the unit increases. Sure, Marauders are classified as biological while Tanks are not because Tanks have such a fat amount of armor around them, the biological target inside cannot be hit (or sniped by a Ghost). That makes sense.

But why then does a low armored Hellion get a mechanical classification, while getting biological when getting more armored?

I know they do this for balance reasons, but they should turn it around - though hitting a guy in a driving full-speed hellion with a sniper rifle is a pro shot too I suppose
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
September 21 2012 22:25 GMT
#590
--- Nuked ---
Wayne123
Profile Joined July 2011
88 Posts
September 21 2012 22:39 GMT
#591
I don´t think that it´s possible to claim that the Battle Hellion as a Bio unit isn´t realistic. I mean, it´s a game based on fantasy and science fiction. You don´t believe that the Battle Hellion can be a Bio unit? How about Mutalisks? Flying monsters in space who kill Terran and Protoss stuff. That´s not realistic either. I guess my point is, as long as the game is good, it doesn´t matter if a unit is realistic or not. After all, we are talking about science fiction.
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 22:50:08
September 21 2012 22:49 GMT
#592
On September 21 2012 04:54 BookII wrote:
So, It's officially a firebat?


No, no no. It's a MECH firebat, which is obviously a thousand times better.
But seriously, I don't think similarities to old units are an issue. Besides, the thing is a transformer: one moment it's a tougher firebat and the next it's a fast harassing unit.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
September 21 2012 22:52 GMT
#593
Cautiously optimistic over here.

Those who are complaining about the Widow mine trading poorly for 2-supply except for against late-game units are, I think, rather missing the point.

Before 200/200, supply cost is really just another way of saying 'costs extra minerals' (apart from Zerg, where it costs larvae for the overlords too). A 2 supply unit costs 20 extra 'supply minerals'. A 1 supply unit costs 10 extra 'supply minerals'. So until you hit 200/200, whether widow mines are 1 or 2 supply really doesn't matter very much at all; it's only costing you an extra 10 minerals each.

When you look purely at the mineral/gas cost of a widow mine, it trades awesomely, especially if it hits clumped units.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
September 21 2012 22:59 GMT
#594
--- Nuked ---
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
September 21 2012 23:04 GMT
#595
sooo, firebat built from the factory?
It's gonna give bio a bit of a boost, though I suppose the upgrades are still vehichle, so it's split upgs.
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
September 21 2012 23:15 GMT
#596
On September 22 2012 07:59 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 07:52 Umpteen wrote:
Cautiously optimistic over here.

Those who are complaining about the Widow mine trading poorly for 2-supply except for against late-game units are, I think, rather missing the point.

Before 200/200, supply cost is really just another way of saying 'costs extra minerals' (apart from Zerg, where it costs larvae for the overlords too). A 2 supply unit costs 20 extra 'supply minerals'. A 1 supply unit costs 10 extra 'supply minerals'. So until you hit 200/200, whether widow mines are 1 or 2 supply really doesn't matter very much at all; it's only costing you an extra 10 minerals each.

When you look purely at the mineral/gas cost of a widow mine, it trades awesomely, especially if it hits clumped units.


Correct, but for Terran this extra mineral cost is at the expense of attack timings, which is so much more important.


Nnnnnot buying it.

First of all, five 2-supply widow mines versus five 1-supply widow mines means your attack timing is missing one marine. Clearly doomed to fail

Secondly, you might well have had to wait for that marine to build if you wanted to bring him anyway.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 23:19:46
September 21 2012 23:19 GMT
#597
On September 22 2012 06:39 The_Darkness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2012 04:08 nimdil wrote:
Isn't the whole Hellion change making the game unbelievable? I mean the game is supposed to fit a genre and I don't see how bio/mech transformer can really do that.



Terran already have three units that transform -- vikings, tanks (siege mode) and thors (250mm strike cannons). How is this somehow less believable? Is a transforming hellion less or more believable than a towering robot that can walk up cliffs and shoot lazer beams at its opponents or a corruptor which morphs in 45 seconds into a giant flying mantaray which defies the laws of physics by floating above the ground? I don't understand the "believable" / "realism" line of criticism about a video game. The question should be -- Will it be fun for casuals to use? Will it make pro games more interesting? Then answer to these questions seems to be yes


what's unbelievable about the broodlord? It probably has pockets it fills with a gas less dense than air. The hellion change on the other hand, is absolutely retarded.
Account252508
Profile Joined February 2012
3454 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 23:36:27
September 21 2012 23:34 GMT
#598
--- Nuked ---
Gumbotwins
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands256 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 23:44:56
September 21 2012 23:41 GMT
#599
quoted wrong post (lol)
Polt, MMA, MVP. Terran triforce!
Gumbotwins
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands256 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 23:45:38
September 21 2012 23:44 GMT
#600
On September 22 2012 06:55 nakedsurfer wrote:
60 is too much. I said from the start that the splash damage should be increased. Only to 40 or 45 though.

60 splash is too intense. 3-5 spider mines can rape just about everything now. I don't like the battle hellion change. It makes no sense.


So do 5 storms/fungels ontop of an army. Also the widow mines can simply be avoided by Detection or by running in a low cost unit. This acctually a great way to force micro from the oppenent which in it place is good for esports :D


Polt, MMA, MVP. Terran triforce!
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