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On September 22 2012 04:27 Xapti wrote:
Maybe it's OK balance-wise (or maybe not),
but the concept of something mechanical transforming into something biological is absolutely absurd and far beyond any suspension of disbelief.
For that reason alone I don't like this change.
Frankly they should just change hellion to firebat and give firebat some sort of speed upgrade if necessary (I say if necessary because in my opinion the reaper could/should be a unit useable the way the hellion is now, just like how vulture were in SC2 (personally I've been a fan of giving reapers an explosive charge ability)
Well if you think of it as the driver being on a suit using the hellion parts as armor, weapon and shields it is no different from a marauder as its survability would relly on human health also
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Finally a balanced widow mine, hopefully we'll see pros use them more in mid game.
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On September 22 2012 05:04 Existor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 04:52 krell wrote:
Mech-Bio transformation makes about as much sense as a siege tank doing double the damage against heavily armored units than against light, unarmored ones. Wouldn't you say? I feel like it should be the other way around, then make thors good against armored stuff. There i Fixed mech.
Siege tanks already do damage against armored units. And thors already have tons of HP and dmg output
That's what he said. Tanks do 15+ against units armored with layers and layers of titanium plates, and normal damage against loincloth wearing zealots. Sense much? In reality it would be the other way 'round. But it's all for balance so okay in my book.
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On September 22 2012 06:13 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 06:10 sweetbabyjesus wrote:On September 22 2012 05:04 Existor wrote:On September 22 2012 04:52 krell wrote:
Mech-Bio transformation makes about as much sense as a siege tank doing double the damage against heavily armored units than against light, unarmored ones. Wouldn't you say? I feel like it should be the other way around, then make thors good against armored stuff. There i Fixed mech.
Siege tanks already do damage against armored units. And thors already have tons of HP and dmg output That's what he said. Tanks do 15+ against units armored with layers and layers of titanium plates, and normal damage against loincloth wearing zealots. Sense much? In reality it would be the other way 'round. But it's all for balance so okay in my book. It does make sense, in reality tank shells are in fact anti-armor.
Agreed. Tank shells are designed to pierce through armor and barriers. They're not built to fight infantry. Otherwise, you could just load up any explosive. Anything that blows up will hill people. Though if tanks have a shot of a bunch of troops, of course they take it.
Everyone needs to keep in mind that this is StarCraft. We suspended our disbeliefs loooooooong before balance issues when we took an interest in this franchise, lol.
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On September 22 2012 04:08 nimdil wrote:
Isn't the whole Hellion change making the game unbelievable? I mean the game is supposed to fit a genre and I don't see how bio/mech transformer can really do that.
Terran already have three units that transform -- vikings, tanks (siege mode) and thors (250mm strike cannons). How is this somehow less believable? Is a transforming hellion less or more believable than a towering robot that can walk up cliffs and shoot lazer beams at its opponents or a corruptor which morphs in 45 seconds into a giant flying mantaray which defies the laws of physics by floating above the ground? I don't understand the "believable" / "realism" line of criticism about a video game. The question should be -- Will it be fun for casuals to use? Will it make pro games more interesting? Then answer to these questions seems to be yes
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60 is too much. I said from the start that the splash damage should be increased. Only to 40 or 45 though.
60 splash is too intense. 3-5 spider mines can rape just about everything now. I don't like the battle hellion change. It makes no sense.
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What I don't understand is why one unit turns from mechanical into biological while the actual buff of the unit increases. Sure, Marauders are classified as biological while Tanks are not because Tanks have such a fat amount of armor around them, the biological target inside cannot be hit (or sniped by a Ghost). That makes sense.
But why then does a low armored Hellion get a mechanical classification, while getting biological when getting more armored?
I know they do this for balance reasons, but they should turn it around - though hitting a guy in a driving full-speed hellion with a sniper rifle is a pro shot too I suppose 
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I don´t think that it´s possible to claim that the Battle Hellion as a Bio unit isn´t realistic. I mean, it´s a game based on fantasy and science fiction. You don´t believe that the Battle Hellion can be a Bio unit? How about Mutalisks? Flying monsters in space who kill Terran and Protoss stuff. That´s not realistic either. I guess my point is, as long as the game is good, it doesn´t matter if a unit is realistic or not. After all, we are talking about science fiction.
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On September 21 2012 04:54 BookII wrote:
So, It's officially a firebat?
No, no no. It's a MECH firebat, which is obviously a thousand times better.
But seriously, I don't think similarities to old units are an issue. Besides, the thing is a transformer: one moment it's a tougher firebat and the next it's a fast harassing unit.
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Cautiously optimistic over here.
Those who are complaining about the Widow mine trading poorly for 2-supply except for against late-game units are, I think, rather missing the point.
Before 200/200, supply cost is really just another way of saying 'costs extra minerals' (apart from Zerg, where it costs larvae for the overlords too). A 2 supply unit costs 20 extra 'supply minerals'. A 1 supply unit costs 10 extra 'supply minerals'. So until you hit 200/200, whether widow mines are 1 or 2 supply really doesn't matter very much at all; it's only costing you an extra 10 minerals each.
When you look purely at the mineral/gas cost of a widow mine, it trades awesomely, especially if it hits clumped units.
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sooo, firebat built from the factory?
It's gonna give bio a bit of a boost, though I suppose the upgrades are still vehichle, so it's split upgs.
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On September 22 2012 07:59 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 07:52 Umpteen wrote:
Cautiously optimistic over here.
Those who are complaining about the Widow mine trading poorly for 2-supply except for against late-game units are, I think, rather missing the point.
Before 200/200, supply cost is really just another way of saying 'costs extra minerals' (apart from Zerg, where it costs larvae for the overlords too). A 2 supply unit costs 20 extra 'supply minerals'. A 1 supply unit costs 10 extra 'supply minerals'. So until you hit 200/200, whether widow mines are 1 or 2 supply really doesn't matter very much at all; it's only costing you an extra 10 minerals each.
When you look purely at the mineral/gas cost of a widow mine, it trades awesomely, especially if it hits clumped units. Correct, but for Terran this extra mineral cost is at the expense of attack timings, which is so much more important.
Nnnnnot buying it.
First of all, five 2-supply widow mines versus five 1-supply widow mines means your attack timing is missing one marine. Clearly doomed to fail 
Secondly, you might well have had to wait for that marine to build if you wanted to bring him anyway.
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On September 22 2012 06:39 The_Darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 04:08 nimdil wrote:
Isn't the whole Hellion change making the game unbelievable? I mean the game is supposed to fit a genre and I don't see how bio/mech transformer can really do that. Terran already have three units that transform -- vikings, tanks (siege mode) and thors (250mm strike cannons). How is this somehow less believable? Is a transforming hellion less or more believable than a towering robot that can walk up cliffs and shoot lazer beams at its opponents or a corruptor which morphs in 45 seconds into a giant flying mantaray which defies the laws of physics by floating above the ground? I don't understand the "believable" / "realism" line of criticism about a video game. The question should be -- Will it be fun for casuals to use? Will it make pro games more interesting? Then answer to these questions seems to be yes
what's unbelievable about the broodlord? It probably has pockets it fills with a gas less dense than air. The hellion change on the other hand, is absolutely retarded.
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On September 22 2012 06:55 nakedsurfer wrote:
60 is too much. I said from the start that the splash damage should be increased. Only to 40 or 45 though.
60 splash is too intense. 3-5 spider mines can rape just about everything now. I don't like the battle hellion change. It makes no sense.
So do 5 storms/fungels ontop of an army. Also the widow mines can simply be avoided by Detection or by running in a low cost unit. This acctually a great way to force micro from the oppenent which in it place is good for esports :D
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EPT
