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On September 27 2012 14:25 Blackknight232 wrote:
tech reactors allows us to keep on par with zerg and toss production so that way we can have 2 of each unit that would require a tech lab
well to help mech tvp out more
as for 4 cause it can heal mechanical units which helps out a lot
So you want HOTS to be WOL units with faster production.
And mech healing so Thor rushes can be imba.
Your idea is bad and you should feel bad.
HOTS is not supposed to be an expansion but a sequel. (Even though it's still named SC2)
That means NEW dynamics and experience, NOT same old sh*t but faster, might as well name it SC2: Turbo
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That battle hellion bio flag is stupid. It renders mech in TvP even less possible due to bonus damage from archon. I just tried it out with the editor. Without the bio flag, battle hellion does a much much better job in defending the tank siege line and tanking damage from the protoss army. Now with the bio battle hellion, all the pains that bio suffered from archon just come back and hit hard.
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The battle hellion is not a firebat. The firebat is not capable of turning into a vehicle with the attack mode of a lurker and moving faster than speedlings. Nor can the firebat be repaired by SCVs. The battle hellion cannot stim.
This comparison is really dumb. Why would I want firebats when battle hellions are clearly better?
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On September 27 2012 16:25 larse wrote:
That battle hellion bio flag is stupid. It renders mech in TvP even less possible due to bonus damage from archon. I just tried it out with the editor. Without the bio flag, battle hellion does a much much better job in defending the tank siege line and tanking damage from the protoss army. Now with the bio battle hellion, all the pains that bio suffered from archon just come back and hit hard.
The reason why they changed it to bio is so that meching terrans will have some encouragement to make medivacs. This not only keeps those same battle hellions alive for longer but it also opens up more harass paths. Sure they become more vulnerable to archons, but is that not worth the trade off? I'd say it definitely is.
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On September 27 2012 16:25 larse wrote:
That battle hellion bio flag is stupid. It renders mech in TvP even less possible due to bonus damage from archon. I just tried it out with the editor. Without the bio flag, battle hellion does a much much better job in defending the tank siege line and tanking damage from the protoss army. Now with the bio battle hellion, all the pains that bio suffered from archon just come back and hit hard.
This is a good counter to prevent the same mass 3/3 speedling rush that Zs use.
Mass 3/3 BHs in large numbers could obviously could overpower mass Protoss gateway with ease.
The bio-flag in a way allows Archon remain relevant in the PvT matchup against the new units.
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On September 27 2012 14:49 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 14:25 Blackknight232 wrote:
tech reactors allows us to keep on par with zerg and toss production so that way we can have 2 of each unit that would require a tech lab
well to help mech tvp out more
as for 4 cause it can heal mechanical units which helps out a lot So you want HOTS to be WOL units with faster production. And mech healing so Thor rushes can be imba.
the game is already imbalanced as it is so what difference does it make if we have tech reactors or healing mech units? Toss has w.g, zerg has injects, we have reactors that only doubles the basic unit and everything else we need, we need to mass produce rax/facts/ports just to keep up so yes i think we need faster production,
As for the mech healing thor rush i would love to do that as payback for all the bs that toss and zerg has gotten away with in WOL you may not but i would love to
and no i don't feel bad at all for suggesting that cause the game has to change at some point in time
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Battle hellion can transform to the mobile hellion and it's more mobile than medivac with battle hellion. Why the hell do we need another type of mobility.
The trade off between being able to be healed by medivacs and taking bonus damage from archon is definitely not worthy, because you lose the big engagement.
3/3 battle hellion doesn't beat 3/3 gateway units. Stalker beats battle hellion in small and large numbers. You tried that out in unit tester, you will know.
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On September 28 2012 00:21 Blackknight232 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 14:49 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On September 27 2012 14:25 Blackknight232 wrote:
tech reactors allows us to keep on par with zerg and toss production so that way we can have 2 of each unit that would require a tech lab
well to help mech tvp out more
as for 4 cause it can heal mechanical units which helps out a lot So you want HOTS to be WOL units with faster production. And mech healing so Thor rushes can be imba. the game is already imbalanced as it is so what difference does it make if we have tech reactors or healing mech units? Toss has w.g, zerg has injects, we have reactors that only doubles the basic unit and everything else we need, we need to mass produce rax/facts/ports just to keep up so yes i think we need faster production, As for the mech healing thor rush i would love to do that as payback for all the bs that toss and zerg has gotten away with in WOL you may not but i would love to and no i don't feel bad at all for suggesting that cause the game has to change at some point in time
You do realize that Toss needs to build a ton of Gateways to be able to mass warp in? Our units don't magically appear. Why should you need less productions facilities?
On September 28 2012 00:42 larse wrote:
Battle hellion can transform to the mobile hellion and it's more mobile than medivac with battle hellion. Why the hell do we need another type of mobility.
The trade off between being able to be healed by medivacs and taking bonus damage from archon is definitely not worthy, because you lose the big engagement.
3/3 battle hellion doesn't beat 3/3 gateway units. Stalker beats battle hellion in small and large numbers. You tried that out in unit tester, you will know.
Most of the time there should be Tanks with those Battle Hellions, which just obliterate any Stalker, so I don't get what you are trying to say, they are just support and better at it now.
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Have you guys seen Dragon use widow mines? they're such great units, lol.
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On September 28 2012 01:40 Mudkipnick wrote:
Have you guys seen Dragon use widow mines? they're such great units, lol.
Morrow is also showing how awesome they can be. He beat back every type of early pressure with them just by placing one or two in the correct place, wiping out double the supply or more. It didn't look easy and he was always forced to move them, but it was awesome to see him do so much with so few units.
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On September 27 2012 17:51 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 16:25 larse wrote:
That battle hellion bio flag is stupid. It renders mech in TvP even less possible due to bonus damage from archon. I just tried it out with the editor. Without the bio flag, battle hellion does a much much better job in defending the tank siege line and tanking damage from the protoss army. Now with the bio battle hellion, all the pains that bio suffered from archon just come back and hit hard. This is a good counter to prevent the same mass 3/3 speedling rush that Zs use. Mass 3/3 BHs in large numbers could obviously could overpower mass Protoss gateway with ease. The bio-flag in a way allows Archon remain relevant in the PvT matchup against the new units.
The problem is the tank still remain very mediocre though. Battle Helions now don't provide cover long enough for tanks to be effective.
Battle Helions are nice with Bio against many Zealots BUT combined with Tanks in PvT are not really useful , which isn't the Battle Helions fault but how bad the tanks are.
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On September 28 2012 01:01 CruelZeratul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 00:42 larse wrote:
Battle hellion can transform to the mobile hellion and it's more mobile than medivac with battle hellion. Why the hell do we need another type of mobility.
The trade off between being able to be healed by medivacs and taking bonus damage from archon is definitely not worthy, because you lose the big engagement.
3/3 battle hellion doesn't beat 3/3 gateway units. Stalker beats battle hellion in small and large numbers. You tried that out in unit tester, you will know. Most of the time there should be Tanks with those Battle Hellions, which just obliterate any Stalker, so I don't get what you are trying to say, they are just support and better at it now.
Oh, it is a response to the response to my post. Because there is no quote. So i guess you didn't get it.
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614 Posts
There hasn't been a balance update for a while... :-/
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On September 28 2012 07:21 Crawdad wrote:
There hasn't been a balance update for a while... :-/
It's been seven days.... one week..... how often do you want them to pump out balance changes??? They haven't even had time to properly see if the last set of balance changes were good...
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On September 28 2012 07:27 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 07:21 Crawdad wrote:
There hasn't been a balance update for a while... :-/ It's been seven days.... one week..... how often do you want them to pump out balance changes??? They haven't even had time to properly see if the last set of balance changes were good...
well they did one every week until now, so i kind of expected the next one right about now...
there is still so much to do!
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On September 28 2012 07:21 Crawdad wrote:
There hasn't been a balance update for a while... :-/
Maybe they want to give their changes a bit of time to play out before they make large sweeping changes to the game?
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So essentially, the changes are:
1. Purify is now more of a burst damage ability than any sort of sustained defense for expansions.
Im guessing blizzard either felt like the purify wasnt good enough in a short window of time, or that it was too strong when activated often. Possibly a combination of both. It feels more important to hit the ability at the right time now, since both the effect of purify and the absence of it will be more significant.
2. Firebats are now bio.
This makes them snipable(?) and less effective against archon compositions. I guess you can also transfuse them. As far as I know, no other unit has bonus damage to biological. To my knowledge the did change the viper aoe to affect all units some time ago. Smells like they did some testing and thought that archons were not doing well enough against them. Cant think of another reason. Unless they intend to bring the warhound back and intend for firebats to counter them.
3. Firebats work with medivacs.
No idea here. It doesnt synergize well with bio since stimmed bio moves much faster. Doesnt synergize with mech since no other mech units can be healed. Also makes no sense from a mobility POV since hellions in their regular form are just faster anyway. Maybe ghost/firebat compositions backed up by mech is what they are going for, but I dont know.
4. Spidermines do more splash.
Plain buff imo. Small numbers of mines will now deal with packs of low health units much better. Im guessing mines can be used to hold off mid game pushes like roach/banes or gateway pushes. Makes going factory earlier a bit safer. Also makes mines overall a bit stronger I guess. Looking forward to seeing them used.
Did I miss anything?
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Bio hellion is a nerf, not a buff.
A meching terran dont want to build medivacs at all lol and i doubt they suddenly will now because the hellion can be healed,its just a waste of 2 suply and 100/100 if you have a full mech army.
Medivacs only to heal battlehellions, wich are considerd cannon fodder annyway.
It just makes no sense,
Maybe if you go bio it is now sensible to mix in a few battle hellions, i dunno.
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On September 29 2012 01:27 Fenris420 wrote:
So essentially, the changes are:
1. Purify is now more of a burst damage ability than any sort of sustained defense for expansions.
Im guessing blizzard either felt like the purify wasnt good enough in a short window of time, or that it was too strong when activated often. Possibly a combination of both. It feels more important to hit the ability at the right time now, since both the effect of purify and the absence of it will be more significant.
2. Firebats are now bio.
This makes them snipable(?) and less effective against archon compositions. I guess you can also transfuse them. As far as I know, no other unit has bonus damage to biological. To my knowledge the did change the viper aoe to affect all units some time ago. Smells like they did some testing and thought that archons were not doing well enough against them. Cant think of another reason. Unless they intend to bring the warhound back and intend for firebats to counter them.
3. Firebats work with medivacs.
No idea here. It doesnt synergize well with bio since stimmed bio moves much faster. Doesnt synergize with mech since no other mech units can be healed. Also makes no sense from a mobility POV since hellions in their regular form are just faster anyway. Maybe ghost/firebat compositions backed up by mech is what they are going for, but I dont know.
4. Spidermines do more splash.
Plain buff imo. Small numbers of mines will now deal with packs of low health units much better. Im guessing mines can be used to hold off mid game pushes like roach/banes or gateway pushes. Makes going factory earlier a bit safer. Also makes mines overall a bit stronger I guess. Looking forward to seeing them used.
Did I miss anything?
I've played around it with Bio/Battle Helion/ Medivac in TvP. Yeah BH are slower when Bio is Stimmed but when you move around you don't Stim ( and you could transform if you needed mobility ) but even at just 1-2 Upgrades they really really melt Zealots very fast. They can be kinda useful here you just need to position them infront of you Bio to buffer and kill the Zealots then it works quite nice. They die fast very but so do the Zealot and since Helions also build kinda fast thats not really the problem. They only do well against Zealots anyway and once those are dead your Bio has an advantage.
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I guess no balance patch this week 
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EPT
