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Russian Federation899 Posts
On September 21 2012 09:31 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 09:00 monkybone wrote:On September 21 2012 08:58 razy wrote:
I don't like battle hellion change. It doesn't feel terranish at all.
The whole point of the race in BW was clear distinction between different tech paths of the race making their combined usage extremely timing based and skill demanding. Terran usually commited to one tech path with a very limited support from others and compensated disadvatages of the chosen path (like low survivability of bio or immobility of mech) with proper execution, accepting their weaknesses while embracing strength: going nuts with bio aggression and multitask or eating up the map methodically and slowly picking opponent apart with their mech force basically turning match into grand chees game.
As a side note, mech in pro games wasn't boring to watch at all because it forced your opponent to react (he couldn't just sit there and watch terran take his half of thr map freely) which also made vulture counter harass extremely potent and fun to watch.
What happens now is not how terran should've solved thier problems. SC2 terran tries to be good at everything at the same time so instead of displaying variety of completely unique, extreme styles of play this whole 'race as a whole' philosophy will most likely make us look completely SC2-zerg and SC2-toss alikes (which is already partially true in WoL).
I hope Blizzard finally understands that making races look completely different from each other designwise is not just some stupid Lore contribution but the most effective and fun way to bring variety into the game, which is not the case with WoL where we have 2 blob-focused races and terran.
I sincerely wish you good luck Blizzard and suggest you watch some BW VoDs from 9-10 and 10-11 seasons. Terran is all about combining tech-paths. That makes it much more interesting, and diverse. This isn't BW. No it's not. Having every game boil down to the same mix of units is not interesting OR diverse. The completely different way mech and bio play in BW creates much more interesting and diverse games than having every game be some variant of biomech, not to mention the fact that you can play biomech in BW as well. OT: Blizzard seems to hate tanks, which makes me sad. They're the most interesting unit Terran has by far. It's like they keep trying to push us away from playing a BW-esque mech style, which is what every Terran and their mom has been asking for since WoL beta. Hopefully the widow mines compensate for this, but I'm doubting it.
Man, i started answering him but accidentally hit the 'back' button and eveything got erased so thanks for doing that for me 
It's sad that my first post wasn't explicit enough to make him realise that.
I'd also like to mention that "This is not BW" is a very poor excuse ehich doesn't explain why this game can't learn from BWs experience so it can develop beyond it instead of trying to come up with it's own bicycle.
Sadly, it seems that Blizzard design team didn't spend much time analyzing what really made BW such a great game.
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On September 21 2012 09:39 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 09:31 Skwid1g wrote:On September 21 2012 09:00 monkybone wrote:On September 21 2012 08:58 razy wrote:
I don't like battle hellion change. It doesn't feel terranish at all.
The whole point of the race in BW was clear distinction between different tech paths of the race making their combined usage extremely timing based and skill demanding. Terran usually commited to one tech path with a very limited support from others and compensated disadvatages of the chosen path (like low survivability of bio or immobility of mech) with proper execution, accepting their weaknesses while embracing strength: going nuts with bio aggression and multitask or eating up the map methodically and slowly picking opponent apart with their mech force basically turning match into grand chees game.
As a side note, mech in pro games wasn't boring to watch at all because it forced your opponent to react (he couldn't just sit there and watch terran take his half of thr map freely) which also made vulture counter harass extremely potent and fun to watch.
What happens now is not how terran should've solved thier problems. SC2 terran tries to be good at everything at the same time so instead of displaying variety of completely unique, extreme styles of play this whole 'race as a whole' philosophy will most likely make us look completely SC2-zerg and SC2-toss alikes (which is already partially true in WoL).
I hope Blizzard finally understands that making races look completely different from each other designwise is not just some stupid Lore contribution but the most effective and fun way to bring variety into the game, which is not the case with WoL where we have 2 blob-focused races and terran.
I sincerely wish you good luck Blizzard and suggest you watch some BW VoDs from 9-10 and 10-11 seasons. Terran is all about combining tech-paths. That makes it much more interesting, and diverse. This isn't BW. No it's not. Having every game boil down to the same mix of units is not interesting OR diverse. The completely different way mech and bio play in BW creates much more interesting and diverse games than having every game be some variant of biomech, not to mention the fact that you can play biomech in BW as well. OT: Blizzard seems to hate tanks, which makes me sad. They're the most interesting unit Terran has by far. It's like they keep trying to push us away from playing a BW-esque mech style, which is what every Terran and their mom has been asking for since WoL beta. Hopefully the widow mines compensate for this, but I'm doubting it. Terran has the most diverse compositions across the matchups, I don't know what you're talking about. Terran is definitely not a race that boils down to the same units. Mech and bio are completely different compositions in sc2 as well, so I don't see your point.
Actually no, in the different match ups, protoss is more diverse. IE
TvP is Marine, Marauder, Medivac, Ghost, Viking.---- Harass Bansee, drops hellions (only early game)
PvT is Chargelulz, Sentries, Archons, Colossi, Stalkers, Templars, observers --- Harass (drop zealots, drop HT, DT's, )
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Really really really like the hellion change. Not only this might make bio more interesting, it also makes mech alot less deathball since you must sacrifice some supply for some medics which contribute to your mobility and drop ability.
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im a little scared of a widow mine crushing my mineral line now
But for anyone who really worries its just like a baneling drop, i deal with those and now ill just deal with these
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On September 21 2012 09:39 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 09:31 Skwid1g wrote:On September 21 2012 09:00 monkybone wrote:On September 21 2012 08:58 razy wrote:
I don't like battle hellion change. It doesn't feel terranish at all.
The whole point of the race in BW was clear distinction between different tech paths of the race making their combined usage extremely timing based and skill demanding. Terran usually commited to one tech path with a very limited support from others and compensated disadvatages of the chosen path (like low survivability of bio or immobility of mech) with proper execution, accepting their weaknesses while embracing strength: going nuts with bio aggression and multitask or eating up the map methodically and slowly picking opponent apart with their mech force basically turning match into grand chees game.
As a side note, mech in pro games wasn't boring to watch at all because it forced your opponent to react (he couldn't just sit there and watch terran take his half of thr map freely) which also made vulture counter harass extremely potent and fun to watch.
What happens now is not how terran should've solved thier problems. SC2 terran tries to be good at everything at the same time so instead of displaying variety of completely unique, extreme styles of play this whole 'race as a whole' philosophy will most likely make us look completely SC2-zerg and SC2-toss alikes (which is already partially true in WoL).
I hope Blizzard finally understands that making races look completely different from each other designwise is not just some stupid Lore contribution but the most effective and fun way to bring variety into the game, which is not the case with WoL where we have 2 blob-focused races and terran.
I sincerely wish you good luck Blizzard and suggest you watch some BW VoDs from 9-10 and 10-11 seasons. Terran is all about combining tech-paths. That makes it much more interesting, and diverse. This isn't BW. No it's not. Having every game boil down to the same mix of units is not interesting OR diverse. The completely different way mech and bio play in BW creates much more interesting and diverse games than having every game be some variant of biomech, not to mention the fact that you can play biomech in BW as well. OT: Blizzard seems to hate tanks, which makes me sad. They're the most interesting unit Terran has by far. It's like they keep trying to push us away from playing a BW-esque mech style, which is what every Terran and their mom has been asking for since WoL beta. Hopefully the widow mines compensate for this, but I'm doubting it. Terran has the most diverse compositions across the matchups, I don't know what you're talking about. Terran is definitely not a race that boils down to the same units. Mech and bio are completely different compositions in sc2 as well, so I don't see your point.
Having diverse compositions is what every race should get. WOL ended up with Terran having the most diverse compositions but it's not supposed to be a Terran only thing. See how people aren't happy that Zerg uses the same composition against both Terran and Protoss now? See how people are even unhappy with only being able to use MMMvG composition TvP now? Having diverse composition isn't meant to be a Terran only feature, but a game feature.
Now, how Terran is meant to have diverse compositions branches stylistic plays of Mech or Bio or in rare cases, Air. This is because of how upgrades splits up the Terran units into these different types. Compare it to say Protoss, where you actually get upgrades affecting all ground, air or shield. You can see how the races are expected to obtain diverse compositions through different means, which is to be in a way that synergizes with their upgrades.
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Brazil1069 Posts
On September 21 2012 09:42 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 09:39 monkybone wrote:On September 21 2012 09:31 Skwid1g wrote:On September 21 2012 09:00 monkybone wrote:On September 21 2012 08:58 razy wrote:
I don't like battle hellion change. It doesn't feel terranish at all.
The whole point of the race in BW was clear distinction between different tech paths of the race making their combined usage extremely timing based and skill demanding. Terran usually commited to one tech path with a very limited support from others and compensated disadvatages of the chosen path (like low survivability of bio or immobility of mech) with proper execution, accepting their weaknesses while embracing strength: going nuts with bio aggression and multitask or eating up the map methodically and slowly picking opponent apart with their mech force basically turning match into grand chees game.
As a side note, mech in pro games wasn't boring to watch at all because it forced your opponent to react (he couldn't just sit there and watch terran take his half of thr map freely) which also made vulture counter harass extremely potent and fun to watch.
What happens now is not how terran should've solved thier problems. SC2 terran tries to be good at everything at the same time so instead of displaying variety of completely unique, extreme styles of play this whole 'race as a whole' philosophy will most likely make us look completely SC2-zerg and SC2-toss alikes (which is already partially true in WoL).
I hope Blizzard finally understands that making races look completely different from each other designwise is not just some stupid Lore contribution but the most effective and fun way to bring variety into the game, which is not the case with WoL where we have 2 blob-focused races and terran.
I sincerely wish you good luck Blizzard and suggest you watch some BW VoDs from 9-10 and 10-11 seasons. Terran is all about combining tech-paths. That makes it much more interesting, and diverse. This isn't BW. No it's not. Having every game boil down to the same mix of units is not interesting OR diverse. The completely different way mech and bio play in BW creates much more interesting and diverse games than having every game be some variant of biomech, not to mention the fact that you can play biomech in BW as well. OT: Blizzard seems to hate tanks, which makes me sad. They're the most interesting unit Terran has by far. It's like they keep trying to push us away from playing a BW-esque mech style, which is what every Terran and their mom has been asking for since WoL beta. Hopefully the widow mines compensate for this, but I'm doubting it. Terran has the most diverse compositions across the matchups, I don't know what you're talking about. Terran is definitely not a race that boils down to the same units. Mech and bio are completely different compositions in sc2 as well, so I don't see your point. Actually no, in the different match ups, protoss is more diverse. IE TvP is Marine, Marauder, Medivac, Ghost, Viking.---- Harass Bansee, drops hellions (only early game) PvT is Chargelulz, Sentries, Archons, Colossi, Stalkers, Templars, observers --- Harass (drop zealots, drop HT, DT's, )
protoss has more units because it's units are very one-dimensional, so it need a lot of different units to maken a solid army.
but the protoss playstyle is always the same, terran does have more diversity in playstyles...
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wtf? battle hellions bio now? whats going on... is mass scv repair in front of hellions that big of a deal? or do they just want it to be a viable thing to include with your bio army so TvP can be MMM+BH? This would make marine+tank+medivac even more powerful if they include BHs that can be healed...
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I love this. And yeah if a marauder (guy in full mech suit) can be bio so can a BH.
Do the battle hellions loose their mechanical flag when they gain bio?
Eg1. Can I repair them with SCVs? How beefy would a BH being healed and having 2-3 scvs repairing it be. haha.
Eg2. Would a 1a warhound (When reintroduced if not changed much) use its normal attacks at the BH and fire the haywire over their heads to the warhounds/tank/thors behind them? If so they just got even more auto skillz lol.
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I think that blizz is just trying to stimulate certain playstyles for testing with this patch. I guess they want to see something along the lines of MMM + battle hellions..
doesnt mean that its to stay.
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Battle Hellion
While in Battle mode, the hellion is now classified as a Biological unit.
this is so fucking dumb. mechanical while a hellion, biological when in BH mode. but still has more armor?
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On September 21 2012 09:55 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 09:42 Godwrath wrote:On September 21 2012 09:39 monkybone wrote:On September 21 2012 09:31 Skwid1g wrote:On September 21 2012 09:00 monkybone wrote:On September 21 2012 08:58 razy wrote:
I don't like battle hellion change. It doesn't feel terranish at all.
The whole point of the race in BW was clear distinction between different tech paths of the race making their combined usage extremely timing based and skill demanding. Terran usually commited to one tech path with a very limited support from others and compensated disadvatages of the chosen path (like low survivability of bio or immobility of mech) with proper execution, accepting their weaknesses while embracing strength: going nuts with bio aggression and multitask or eating up the map methodically and slowly picking opponent apart with their mech force basically turning match into grand chees game.
As a side note, mech in pro games wasn't boring to watch at all because it forced your opponent to react (he couldn't just sit there and watch terran take his half of thr map freely) which also made vulture counter harass extremely potent and fun to watch.
What happens now is not how terran should've solved thier problems. SC2 terran tries to be good at everything at the same time so instead of displaying variety of completely unique, extreme styles of play this whole 'race as a whole' philosophy will most likely make us look completely SC2-zerg and SC2-toss alikes (which is already partially true in WoL).
I hope Blizzard finally understands that making races look completely different from each other designwise is not just some stupid Lore contribution but the most effective and fun way to bring variety into the game, which is not the case with WoL where we have 2 blob-focused races and terran.
I sincerely wish you good luck Blizzard and suggest you watch some BW VoDs from 9-10 and 10-11 seasons. Terran is all about combining tech-paths. That makes it much more interesting, and diverse. This isn't BW. No it's not. Having every game boil down to the same mix of units is not interesting OR diverse. The completely different way mech and bio play in BW creates much more interesting and diverse games than having every game be some variant of biomech, not to mention the fact that you can play biomech in BW as well. OT: Blizzard seems to hate tanks, which makes me sad. They're the most interesting unit Terran has by far. It's like they keep trying to push us away from playing a BW-esque mech style, which is what every Terran and their mom has been asking for since WoL beta. Hopefully the widow mines compensate for this, but I'm doubting it. Terran has the most diverse compositions across the matchups, I don't know what you're talking about. Terran is definitely not a race that boils down to the same units. Mech and bio are completely different compositions in sc2 as well, so I don't see your point. Actually no, in the different match ups, protoss is more diverse. IE TvP is Marine, Marauder, Medivac, Ghost, Viking.---- Harass Bansee, drops hellions (only early game) PvT is Chargelulz, Sentries, Archons, Colossi, Stalkers, Templars, observers --- Harass (drop zealots, drop HT, DT's, ) protoss has more units because it's units are very one-dimensional, so it need a lot of different units to maken a solid army. but the protoss playstyle is always the same, terran does have more diversity in playstyles...
What diversity on playstyle do they have on TvP ? Protoss can either go colossi or HT as their first splash damage choice on mid-game, with added mindgames. Where is the choice for terran ?
And don't tell me early pressure builds, because protoss can do that too.
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The more i think about it, the more I like the bio-hellions. Was really strange to think of a unit changing from mech to bio at first, but if you think about it marauders are as much machine as the battle hellion is and they can be healed by the medivac. Widow mine + battle hellion drops sound pretty fucking cool.
Does anyone know... Does the widow mine ALWAYS automatically attack the first thing in range like spider mines did or can you tell it to "hold fire" like ghosts or borrowed banelings or the old lurker trick? Then right click it on a target of your choice when its in range? If you can micro them like this, I'll be very excited! I think that would really help the unit fill the anti-mutalisk role that HotS mech would need.
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Hurray! A Terran buff that does not have to do with bunkers!
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Hmm these changes seem pretty good since battle hellions dont insta-die to immortals and stalkers anymore D: also buffed widow mine means they will 1-shot workers and such
On September 21 2012 10:08 imJealous wrote:
The more i think about it, the more I like the bio-hellions. Was really strange to think of a unit changing from mech to bio at first, but if you think about it marauders are as much machine as the battle hellion is and they can be healed by the medivac. Widow mine + battle hellion drops sound pretty fucking cool.
Does anyone know... Does the widow mine ALWAYS automatically attack the first thing in range like spider mines did or can you tell it to "hold fire" like ghosts or borrowed banelings or the old lurker trick? Then right click it on a target of your choice when its in range? If you can micro them like this, I'll be very excited! I think that would really help the unit fill the anti-mutalisk role that HotS mech would need.
You can hold position them, saw MorroW do it on day[9]'s ep about his mech vs protoss
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Its both biological and mechanical? Give me a break, "Blizzard".
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battle helions into a bunker.... wtf. That means, I could do a runby with 100 zerglings and still don't kill the bunker -_-
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On September 21 2012 10:17 Ozell wrote:
battle helions into a bunker.... wtf. That means, I could do a runby with 100 zerglings and still don't kill the bunker -_-
I wonder how many Swarm Hosts it'd take to kill one of those...
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I'm going to assume BH still recieve upgrades from armory since they are still produced at the factory and battle mode vikings are still supported by air upgrades.
This means MMM+BH will be more dependant on multiple upgrades of different tech paths, which is a good balancing hook.
Marine+BH+Medivac with Bio Weapon upgrades and mech armor upgrades would be an interesting low gas opener.
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EPT
