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On July 15 2012 03:56 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2012 01:57 a176 wrote: Dustin Browder
It's not about how many units we have, it's about the quality. reaper raven battlecruiser carrier 4 of the least used units, none of which are getting any attention (give reaper healing is not incentive to build them) and browder keeps complaining about the 'carrier argument', is his brain incapable of processing criticism about the colossus? The BC is getting attention, with this speed ability. And the Carrier is getting attention by being cut. By "getting attention" he means making them usable. BC speed boost for 100 energy is complete crap, it'll hardly change ther effectiveness at all.
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Zerg - Zerg has difficulty pushing, and even with signifcant advantages in the mid-game, they can't push their opponent if they are reasonably defended, until they get broodlords out.
- They want to give zerg's a way to effectively kill their opponent immediately after gaining an advantage in the midgame.
- Overall Zerg has moved from being a passive, sit-back and macro race, to a more in your face aggressive, swarming playstyle.
This guy simply can't be serious. Most zergs simply don't utilize the strengths of the race yet. Stephano is a prime example of someone who does. Zerg can't push? Are you kidding? Mass zerglings and roaches can and often overwhelm mid game defenses on their own. Throw in drops and its often a cakewalk.
Look at what Steph did today with MC at NASL.
Carrier
- A lot of people still want it in the game, but he hasn't seen anyone come up with a good arguement for it, besides it being cool and iconic.
You'd keep the forgettable void ray that barely has a place left and which you've altered so often since its intro yet won't even try to improve the carrier but remove it despite how prominently it marks in the attention of the community? That's a damn shame and short sighted.
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Yeah, I'd love Dustin to offer an "argument" in favor of keeping the Void Ray around.
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TBH I sometimes wonder if Dustin just wants to get rid of units his predecessor designed in BW. Keeping anything they did would be like admitting they did a better job than he can.
It reminds me of every time I have seen a new person step into a senior manager position in places I've worked. Regard anything that was done by their predecessor as bad, change as much as possible to differentiate themselves and justify why they got the role.
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On July 15 2012 11:00 Aetherial wrote: TBH I sometimes wonder if Dustin just wants to get rid of units his predecessor designed in BW. Keeping anything they did would be like admitting they did a better job than he can.
It reminds me of every time I have seen a new person step into a senior manager position in places I've worked. Regard anything that was done by their predecessor as bad, change as much as possible to differentiate themselves and justify why they got the role.
His reply to the TL interviewer some time ago when asked about BW epic macro/map control games (can't remember his name): "BW is a great game, if you like it go play it".
Also I love how people say "SC2 IS A DIFFERENT GAME STOP COMPARING IT" yet all the fundamentals are the same; and over them are added new "cool" shit that contradict the initial philosophy and ruin the overall balance making the game worse.]
Blizzard's e-sport RTS monopoly is so strong that even if HotS is inferior and worse than BW and WOL people will still play it and love it, cheese/all-in all they way to GM and cheer for their favorite players
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It is utterly impossible to not compare SC2 and BW. Blizzard did it and invited everyone else to do so when they made a sequel/re imagined game in teh SC universe. Anyone who parrots the 'don't compare' meme or even the 'go play BW' theme is being disingenuous. What if we didn't play BW so much anymore but WATCHED it avidly. What, am I supposed to just watch the same Proleague/OSL VODs on youtube from 2007-2012? Of course not, I want new matches, and thus we want better of SC2.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 15 2012 05:13 Crissaegrim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2012 04:58 Coolness53 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +No game was perfect and had a lot of problems. Remember Diablo II it was not very good. Only when Lord of the Destruction came out it became better. Yes Diablo III isn't as good as we hoped. They will keep patching and keep adding more to it to get it better. Even Starcraft BW wasn't even that great at first either. It took multiple patches to make it what it is today. People's memory is horrible. Yes Blizzard the company has humans making video games...So mistakes do happen and they will figure out new ways to make there games better. Now for people not buying HotS because Diablo III...That is like saying EA released Madden 2011 and I am not going to buy Battlefield...Or Activision made iCarly video game so I am not playing Call of Duty . Stop fucking using the "give it time, it will get better" excuse. People are annoyed because instead of building on the success of the past games, they instead chose to remake everything only to make it worse. Blizz isnt making Starcraft or Diablo for the first time mind you. They've had so many years to analyze what made their games so good and yet failed to capitalize on that. You know the saying "Dont reinvent the wheel"? Well it can be applied perfectly here. From wikipedia: "Reinventing the square wheel is the practice of unnecessarily engineering artifacts that provide functionality already provided by existing standard artifacts (reinventing the wheel) and ending up with a worse result than the standard (a square wheel)." This is what I feel when someone mentions SC2 or D3.
These are my thoughts regarding how SC2 (and D3 for that matter) turned out. Maybe HotS might make the game better but I'm not holding my breath.
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On July 15 2012 11:00 Aetherial wrote: TBH I sometimes wonder if Dustin just wants to get rid of units his predecessor designed in BW. Keeping anything they did would be like admitting they did a better job than he can.
It reminds me of every time I have seen a new person step into a senior manager position in places I've worked. Regard anything that was done by their predecessor as bad, change as much as possible to differentiate themselves and justify why they got the role. http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014488/The-Game-Design-of-STARCRAFT
I think DB cannot be compared to a new person who steps into a senior manager position.
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It absolutely blows my mind how much new stuff Zergs are getting, most of it potentially game-breaking. Zerg was already the strongest race in several areas, such as macro and mobility, now they'll also be the strongest in versatility and other areas. It's completely insane.
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On July 15 2012 08:56 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2012 03:56 NicolBolas wrote:On July 15 2012 01:57 a176 wrote: Dustin Browder
It's not about how many units we have, it's about the quality. reaper raven battlecruiser carrier 4 of the least used units, none of which are getting any attention (give reaper healing is not incentive to build them) and browder keeps complaining about the 'carrier argument', is his brain incapable of processing criticism about the colossus? The BC is getting attention, with this speed ability. And the Carrier is getting attention by being cut. By "getting attention" he means making them usable. BC speed boost for 100 energy is complete crap, it'll hardly change ther effectiveness at all. I think they want to give terrans the option of draining them of energy so templars dont hard counter them for late game terran "death ball" as Browder calls it addition?
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You know now that I'm thinking about it I wonder what tvt will look like now. Will it end up being Warhound vs Warhound widow mind match up and look like zvz bunch just clump up warhounds? lol
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On July 15 2012 10:13 Toadvine wrote: Yeah, I'd love Dustin to offer an "argument" in favor of keeping the Void Ray around.
People in team games could no longer mass void rays into DTs, it would be terrible!
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Just make the carrier microable like in broodwar and itd be more fun and more useful.
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I really don't like that part giving Zerg a way to immediately kill their opponent after gaining an advantage from the mid-game. No race should be able to do that. It makes for a poor spectating experience.
Advantage should just allow them to push back and allow them further opportunities to gain advantage while leaving opponents with a window of time to strike back and reverse the situation.
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i think what alot of people neglect about the widow mine is its going to cost supply.. to gain any significant map control you need at least >10 since they're slow and have a 10 second delay. Thats a lot of supply for to be taken up for map control when a terran army needs at much supply as possible to take on the faster reinforcement of warp mechanic and larvas.
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What's the discussion about BCs currently? Couldn't they make the carrier mimic the BC's role?
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Initally I was pretty sceptical about HotS. But now I'm just getting psyched. There so many possibilties to break entreched possiotions now. It's gonna be awesome :D
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On July 15 2012 08:56 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2012 08:36 SuperYo1000 wrote:On July 15 2012 03:40 a176 wrote:On July 15 2012 03:36 [F_]aths wrote:On July 15 2012 03:04 Toastie.NL wrote: HotS is NOT adding ANYTHING that is really good for the game. ... you can say that now with how much time you played the game? you dont have to play the game to know immediately units like the tempest are shitfuck boring and dumb becuase you have discovered every possible strat to use them with right? *rolls eyes* Dont you think you are jumping to conclusions watching videos of pre beta builds when you havent even played this yet? But maybe its cooler to complain?!? kids these days..... People used to say the same about the Colossus. And guess what? It's as awful now as it was back at release.
people also said baneling was shit and will never be made. same with stalkers
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On July 16 2012 18:29 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2012 08:56 Toadvine wrote:On July 15 2012 08:36 SuperYo1000 wrote:On July 15 2012 03:40 a176 wrote:On July 15 2012 03:36 [F_]aths wrote:On July 15 2012 03:04 Toastie.NL wrote: HotS is NOT adding ANYTHING that is really good for the game. ... you can say that now with how much time you played the game? you dont have to play the game to know immediately units like the tempest are shitfuck boring and dumb becuase you have discovered every possible strat to use them with right? *rolls eyes* Dont you think you are jumping to conclusions watching videos of pre beta builds when you havent even played this yet? But maybe its cooler to complain?!? kids these days..... People used to say the same about the Colossus. And guess what? It's as awful now as it was back at release. people also said baneling was shit and will never be made. same with stalkers
Baneling and stalkers are made, but still shit.
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Quod ab initio vitiosum est, non potest tractu temporis convalescere.
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