On July 10 2012 12:02 Ketara wrote: You want a good argument for the Carrier?
Make it work like you want Tempest to work. Give the Interceptors an upgrade that sends them out at 22 range.
There. Carrier is what you want Tempest to be, but it's cool while the Tempest is dumb.
I assume the 22 range suggestion is a joke ... but aside from that, you're right. I don't understand how Browder can say that while also saying that stargate is under-utilized which means that Protoss needs better ships. How is that not a good argument? Why can't the Carrier play that role after a workover? Doesn't make any sense.
Its easy to do really. Call an upgrade for the carrier called "fighter-bomber" and have the 4 or 8 interceptors turn into 2 or 4 'bombers' that have range 22 but take a while to get to and from the target. I mean its really just a small graphic change and at least carriers are still cool instead of the weird Descent II wannabe garbage looking crap the Tempest is.
Ideally Browder will get a 'promotion' and go upgrade Call of Duty 10: Modern Combat on Mars with Aliens and let David Kim or whoever is still left from old old Blizzard to actually work on the game.
This is a pretty good idea, I had a similar one, where Carriers could be upgraded to burn 1 Interceptor for 1 Tempest attack. 22 range, 25 minerals, similar damage. The animation could just be an interceptor with some blue protoss particle effects, and then it explodes and auto rebuilds that interceptor. That would give it both roles, because the current Carrier is pretty useless and the Tempest is boring. Together though, it might be more interesting.
On July 10 2012 18:37 Evangelist wrote: Uh. You guys know that you basically build 4 tempests and the zerg has literally around 30s to engage you or they have no broodlords left, right? Put the things 10 range behind your army protected by a handful of stalkers and just keep pressuring forward every once in a while to keep their corruptors occupied.
All this SHIT 22 RANGE AWFUL UNIT seems to be sourced from the idea that you just 1a the damn things. Build 4 of them, put them in a control group (yes, I know, this is hard to do) and target fire one broodlord every 6s. Same thing with PvP. Build 2 of them, position them over your main, protect with a few stalkers and two shot their colossi. Since they're relatively low DPS, they don't utterly gut every unit in the army but they do fuck colossi.
Carriers are just 1a units by comparison. Let them go.
this unit concept sounds just so absolutely stupid i cant think the devs are considering it.
i honestly believe the reason sc2 was so successful is because IT IS so similar to BW
besides the clumping and MBS and max unit selection, Sc2 is very similar to BW in my opinion. Unit powers are pretty similar some extreme differences are storm is weaker so bio is stronger in TvP and things like that
but in many ways sc2 is very similar to BW in matchup relationships such as like in PvZ the protoss tries to be defensive with cannons early and in PvP theres lots of early game fighting with lack of expanding and in TvT its tanklines vs tanklines (like in BW)
and the endgame units are very similar comparing bw to sc2 (heck, most of the units are the same thing) except tosses scout is replaced voidrays valk/wraith replaced with banshee/viking etc but the units that are replacing arent too far behind in concept compared to BTW
hots seems to be introducing things that are extremely stupid in concept compared to BW
like that oracle. you serious. that stupid harassment ability does not belong in bw (sc2) What the hell is with this tempest. This unit does not belong in bw (sc2) it belongs in C&C or something
and what the hell is that mothership cores defensive ability? the hell? sorry but this is starcraft. PvP should not be nexus first vs nexus first +proxy nexus which this stupid thing could turn it into. nexus does not need ultra defense like that, thats what cannons are for
more and more as sc2 evolves with improved play and better maps, its looking more and more as epic as BW and many units having the same concept/powers
but like i said above the oracle and tempest are units that are just... extremely stupid and nothing like that seems like it should exist in this game to have it keep the bw feel
I honestly believe if HOTS stays on the same tracks, Wings of Liberty will probably remain as the favorite tournament version because even though tons of people say WoL is extremely different than BW, i feel a big reason for WoL's success is because it is so NOT-DIFFERENT from BW and many people are too blinded to really see it.
HOTS problems will probably be fixed in its beta and it will probably go down a different track and be a success
i think the further away you take sc2 from BW, the worse it will get. hots currently seems to be going down this path. I honestly believe the current Sc2 is very similar to BW and that similarity i believe is a big reason it was so successful. I think people will see this in the beta and blizzard will most likely make things right by changing EVERYTHING
Looking interesting, and not really in a bad way. Little unsure of the Tempest and I really want Spider Mines to stay in, but I'll have to wait to actually play the beta before I start talking about whether something is amazing or just plain stupid.
On July 10 2012 19:28 Natespank wrote: Imagine this:
Before HotS is released, Blizzard hires pro coaches to train their design team up to grandmaster level across the board. Then they go back to design.
Actually how GM players like the game is rather unimportant. They are only 200 per continent. In order for the scene to be large (and blizzards sales to be large) two things are neccesary. Pro level play has to look interessting to spectate. Bronze to Diamond has to be interessting to play.
On July 10 2012 19:26 ajkayken wrote: besides the clumping and MBS and max unit selection, Sc2 is very similar to BW in my opinion. Unit powers are pretty similar some extreme differences are storm is weaker so bio is stronger in TvP and things like that
SC2 isnt like BW and you totally forgot to mention the "macro-economics" and production boosts which the races got in SC2. They make SC2 MUCH FASTER and a lot different in the mid-end-game. Warp Gate alone totally changes any Protoss matchup.
On July 10 2012 19:44 Sapphire.lux wrote: I do not understand DB.
TvT stale? Where? Bronze?
Protoss can not attack? again, maybe in bronze if you can't FF bunkers.
I'm sad for Terran and the future of mech...1a mechanical marauders
Its his opinion and I guess he only likes "action action action" ... which reminds me of him trying to achieve something like the "bloodiest movie ever" (Hot Shots 2) ... which is totally ridiculous. Thats also why he doesnt see any reason for keeping the Carrier ... either that or he doesnt look for one.
HotS changes looking great, especially Terran with the widow mine, which looks like it'll be the strongest race in HotS now, but I'll stick with the swarm and swarm hosts xD
have to say, even though everything is variable it sounds like Terran gets units to help them mech better and zerg gets stuff to just make them super strong... all I keep thinking is the stephano roach build but with hydra's the DPS will be insane vs protoss and mix that with drops :/
I also really hate the idea of a creep nydus... creep is one of the hardest things to deal with if your playing a good Z becasue you cannot really attack while on it for long, and being able to just make a nydus that can make up for you sucking kinda sounds horrible LOL...
I like the sound of temphest but if it does such little dmg how is it suppose to help P deal with insane muta balls ? Sounds like it would only be of use late game vs broods and a replacment to the all-in-pray archon toilet... which I guess is an improvment..
have to say though, sounds like Z's one weak area and one area that gives T and P windows has been removed... and Z's late game is insane... but I guess we gotta see how it panns out... I guess its fair for Z to start out broken given that T was in WoL
- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point.
?????????????????????????????
Ye, according to Mr.B that is a weakness, eventhough stalkers are faster than marines/marauders and can kite them to death, sentries can make toss escape any situation, and zealots are just plain strong.
If only I could have zealots sentry and stalkers instead of marines/marauders early game...
You fly around the map hugging cliffs, harassing bases, attacking units that will keep the interceptors out and carriers away from danger, and focus firing constantly.
[/QUOTE]
Ah awesome game constant pressuring, fighting for positions, harassing. Stopped playing Starcraft 2 due to "terrible damage/ball syndrom" but now I even might install Broodwar again, but man will I suck hard
- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point.
?????????????????????????????
Ye, according to Mr.B that is a weakness, eventhough stalkers are faster than marines/marauders and can kite them to death, sentries can make toss escape any situation, and zealots are just plain strong.
If only I could have zealots sentry and stalkers instead of marines/marauders early game...
not sure what game you've been playing, but unless you do an all in, MM kills basically all gateway units... and you miss one or two FF and T pressure can kill you pretty easily unless you have robo units...
1) They are actually amazing in split map PvZ 2) It COULD be a much, much more interesting unit with bw mechanics and micro added in, rather than just having a flying colosuss that can also shoot up.
- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point.
?????????????????????????????
Ye, according to Mr.B that is a weakness, eventhough stalkers are faster than marines/marauders and can kite them to death, sentries can make toss escape any situation, and zealots are just plain strong.
If only I could have zealots sentry and stalkers instead of marines/marauders early game...
not sure what game you've been playing, but unless you do an all in, MM kills basically all gateway units... and you miss one or two FF and T pressure can kill you pretty easily unless you have robo units...
Thats after Stim (and Concussive + Shield). When T and P go balls to the wall early agression P is strong..
- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point.
?????????????????????????????
Ye, according to Mr.B that is a weakness, eventhough stalkers are faster than marines/marauders and can kite them to death, sentries can make toss escape any situation, and zealots are just plain strong.
If only I could have zealots sentry and stalkers instead of marines/marauders early game...
not sure what game you've been playing, but unless you do an all in, MM kills basically all gateway units... and you miss one or two FF and T pressure can kill you pretty easily unless you have robo units...
Thats after Stim (and Concussive + Shield). When T and P go balls to the wall early agression P is strong..
really just concussion... with that you can kite everything P has early game stopping any real presure... stim just allows you to out right kill it
- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point.
?????????????????????????????
Ye, according to Mr.B that is a weakness, eventhough stalkers are faster than marines/marauders and can kite them to death, sentries can make toss escape any situation, and zealots are just plain strong.
If only I could have zealots sentry and stalkers instead of marines/marauders early game...
not sure what game you've been playing, but unless you do an all in, MM kills basically all gateway units... and you miss one or two FF and T pressure can kill you pretty easily unless you have robo units...
Thats after Stim (and Concussive + Shield). When T and P go balls to the wall early agression P is strong..
really just concussion... with that you can kite everything P has early game stopping any real presure... stim just allows you to out right kill it
Forcefields would like a word with you. Seriously, gateway units aren't THAT bad, which is why high level terrans only ever pressure when they get medivacs these days rather than just going for it the instant stim finishes.
- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point.
?????????????????????????????
Ye, according to Mr.B that is a weakness, eventhough stalkers are faster than marines/marauders and can kite them to death, sentries can make toss escape any situation, and zealots are just plain strong.
If only I could have zealots sentry and stalkers instead of marines/marauders early game...
not sure what game you've been playing, but unless you do an all in, MM kills basically all gateway units... and you miss one or two FF and T pressure can kill you pretty easily unless you have robo units...
Thats after Stim (and Concussive + Shield). When T and P go balls to the wall early agression P is strong..
really just concussion... with that you can kite everything P has early game stopping any real presure... stim just allows you to out right kill it
Forcefields would like a word with you. Seriously, gateway units aren't THAT bad, which is why high level terrans only ever pressure when they get medivacs these days rather than just going for it the instant stim finishes.
yeah I'm aware of FF but being aggressive with it unless your going all in super agro isn't really going to work out well... you'll get like a bunker and a few marines?
unless you have a boat load of sentries you'll then just loose everything as concussion and stim stops you from escaping
There's no reason to cut the carrier for being too weak when you're unwilling to look at what situatios lead to p going carriersw back in BW, and what made carriers good
EPT
constant pressuring, fighting for positions, harassing. Stopped playing Starcraft 2 due to "terrible damage/ball syndrom" but now I even might install Broodwar again, but man will I suck hard
