Oh well, this is going be quite hilarious i think, beta is going be crazy fun though, think i actually might play the beta more than the actual game with the imbalance there is going to be xD
Bio really is the standard in TvP. There are certain openings with factory units like the 1-1-1 or openings with helions. But in general mech is not used and biomech is only useful for a short amount of time, not when the protoss has all his tech available.
So you have never seen Marineking or SuperNova use marine tank timings? Or Byun do it vs Genius like last week? MMM + Seige is like the standard build used in all macro match ups as of late including vs P
Byun vs Genius? You mean game 2 where he lost a 33 (ingame) minute game because he didn't pay attention for 1 second?
edit: my point being having some tanks is good, but everything above is so unforgiving that it is not a viable strategy to play.
Oh well, this is going be quite hilarious i think, beta is going be crazy fun though, think i actually might play the beta more than the actual game with the imbalance there is going to be xD
Bio really is the standard in TvP. There are certain openings with factory units like the 1-1-1 or openings with helions. But in general mech is not used and biomech is only useful for a short amount of time, not when the protoss has all his tech available.
So you have never seen Marineking or SuperNova use marine tank timings? Or Byun do it vs Genius like last week? MMM + Seige is like the standard build used in all macro match ups as of late including vs P
Byun vs Genius? You mean game 2 where he lost a 33 (ingame) minute game because he didn't pay attention for 1 second?
Yep, also that he got himself into a corner and thought he might get run by so he unseiged and ran back. But thats not the point, the point is Factory play is used vsP whether its to all in with 1-1-1 or a marine seige opening/timing or threw MMM+Seige play, it is used, to say it isn't is quite unusual.
On July 10 2012 21:09 Grumbels wrote: Poor Dustin Browder. On one hand a majority of this forum agrees that warpgate tech caused gateway units being weak, then when Browder says that gateway units are weak he's attacked for being clueless.
Well, maybe because warpate is...lets say questionable mechanic in 1st place :p
Warpgate is an essential part of the protoss design. This will not be changed, neither in HOTS or Legacy of the Void. I do not see what you do not like about the machanic. Protoss is very immobile, warpgate tech gives the option to attack on different places.
Protoss is immobile because of the warp gate, not the contrary. You can't make protoss base units too strong because it would make early timings exponentially stronger and as a side effect, you have to make colossus stronger to support a late game army.
On July 10 2012 21:09 Grumbels wrote: Poor Dustin Browder. On one hand a majority of this forum agrees that warpgate tech caused gateway units being weak, then when Browder says that gateway units are weak he's attacked for being clueless.
Well, maybe because warpate is...lets say questionable mechanic in 1st place :p
Warpgate is an essential part of the protoss design. This will not be changed, neither in HOTS or Legacy of the Void. I do not see what you do not like about the machanic. Protoss is very immobile, warpgate tech gives the option to attack on different places.
I know its essential part of the protoss design.I know its not gonna be changed. Doesnt mean I have to like it cuz its fancy teleport stuff, it gives to many advantages and has no flaws? Especialy lategame. Negates defenders advantage, 4gate, 8gate timings, ppl complain about gateway units beeing 2 weak, wg is the reason and it supports deathball more than anything else cuz u reinforce without travel time...theres a lot of things that can be disliked about warpgate.
Oh well, this is going be quite hilarious i think, beta is going be crazy fun though, think i actually might play the beta more than the actual game with the imbalance there is going to be xD
Bio really is the standard in TvP. There are certain openings with factory units like the 1-1-1 or openings with helions. But in general mech is not used and biomech is only useful for a short amount of time, not when the protoss has all his tech available.
So you have never seen Marineking or SuperNova use marine tank timings? Or Byun do it vs Genius like last week? MMM + Seige is like the standard build used in all macro match ups as of late including vs P
Byun vs Genius? You mean game 2 where he lost a 33 (ingame) minute game because he didn't pay attention for 1 second?
Yep, also that he got himself into a corner and thought he might get run by so he unseiged and ran back. But thats not the point, the point is Factory play is used vsP whether its to all in with 1-1-1 or a marine seige opening/timing or threw MMM+Seige play, it is used, to say it isn't is quite unusual.
Well, he pressure the fourth and I think he even managed to take it down, abusing the ramp leading to the fourth from the protoss base with the range of his tanks.
Anyways. Yes, you are right, factories are seen vs protoss. But you cannot really call this going mech. They just splash in some tanks to strengthen their army without sacrificing too much mobility. Their main focus still remains the bio.
'TvT matches can get a little stale.' (From the interview)
He's right. He's not saying it happens every game. He's not denying TvT in general is in a bad place. He's only saying TvT does sometimes get stale. I agree with him.
I don't know why you would base your opinion of HotS on an interview from a single person. You realise he's not the only one developing this game right? In fact, neither you nor anyone here has any clue of how competent their development team is. You can interpret and say whatever you like, but it's based on absolutely nothing.
'TvT matches can get a little stale.' (From the interview)
He's right. He's not saying it happens every game. He's not denying TvT in general is in a bad place. He's only saying TvT does sometimes get stale. I agree with him.
I don't know why you would base your opinion of HotS on an interview from a single person. You realise he's not the only one developing this game right? In fact, neither you nor anyone here has any clue of how competent their development team is. You can interpret and say whatever you like, but it's based on absolutely nothing.
Let's just say a developer that throws in ideas like the Tempest will have some troubles to sound credible for a long time after .
On July 10 2012 21:09 Grumbels wrote: Poor Dustin Browder. On one hand a majority of this forum agrees that warpgate tech caused gateway units being weak, then when Browder says that gateway units are weak he's attacked for being clueless.
Well, maybe because warpate is...lets say questionable mechanic in 1st place :p
Warpgate is an essential part of the protoss design. This will not be changed, neither in HOTS or Legacy of the Void. I do not see what you do not like about the machanic. Protoss is very immobile, warpgate tech gives the option to attack on different places.
I know its essential part of the protoss design.I know its not gonna be changed. Doesnt mean I have to like it cuz its fancy teleport stuff, it gives to many advantages and has no flaws? Especialy lategame. Negates defenders advantage, 4gate, 8gate timings, ppl complain about gateway units beeing 2 weak, wg is the reason and it supports deathball more than anything else cuz u reinforce without travel time...theres a lot of things that can be disliked about warpgate.
edit: also what poster above says
they should add a limit cap on pylon per warp in, so they can't just invest 100 minerals and proceed to warp in their entire army and negates most defender advantage.
And they should buff gateway units and nerf colossus, or buff colossus's dmg but give them a drawback (mobility, siege time, vulerable/weak whatever)
On July 10 2012 20:54 Toadvine wrote: I should stop reading these interviews, the nonsense oozing out of them just makes me depressed. Or maybe I should keep reading, so my decision not to buy HotS is reinforced.
I mean, do you really look at how the game is now, and decide "Zerg should be able to just kill the opponent after getting ahead."? Not being able to instantly convert an advantage (which they get by default) into a win is the only thing keeping them from winning every game where they don't die to an all-in. It's difficult enough for both Terran and Protoss to defend various 3 base attacks from Zerg, right now.
And the comment about TvT being stale because of tanks just blows my mind. How the fuck do you arrive at this kind of conclusion? Best mirror matchup with the most viable openings and playstyles, and the most dynamic gameplay, and he says it's stale? Not PvP, with its endless turtling into mass colossus armies. Not ZvZ, with a line of roaches shooting at each other across the map. No, the problem definitely lies in TvT...
How can anyone read this and still believe HotS is going to improve the game?
Truerer words were never spoken.
I am starting to lose faith in Blizzard. I dont know why, but I get a feeling that Dustin Browder is George W. Bush of Game Design.
I really hate the idea of a unit that can only attack buildings, such as the new nydus wurm. It was terrible in War3 (steam tank) as it was incredibly depressing to play against. I hope they reconsider.
On July 10 2012 21:09 Grumbels wrote: Poor Dustin Browder. On one hand a majority of this forum agrees that warpgate tech caused gateway units being weak, then when Browder says that gateway units are weak he's attacked for being clueless.
do you even read?
- Protoss has to very passive in the early game as they only have zealot, sentry's and stalkers at that point.
what part of this talks about gateway units being weak? just "has to be passive" is ridiculous because there is a ton of protoss aggression/all in's they can do early game.....
Fine, if you want to be ridiculous and debate semantics. I'll simplify it for you: because of warpgate and the lack of mobility for gateway units, almost every early game attack is all-in, you can't simply pressure or gain map control. With macro games being quite popular, there is a larger number of games where protoss is forced to be passive.
In almost every standard game I watch, zergs have advantage in supply and workers during the mid game. It doesn't make sense to give them a way to make that advantage into an almost guaranteed win
On July 10 2012 21:09 Grumbels wrote: Poor Dustin Browder. On one hand a majority of this forum agrees that warpgate tech caused gateway units being weak, then when Browder says that gateway units are weak he's attacked for being clueless.
Well, maybe because warpate is...lets say questionable mechanic in 1st place :p
Warpgate is an essential part of the protoss design. This will not be changed, neither in HOTS or Legacy of the Void. I do not see what you do not like about the machanic. Protoss is very immobile, warpgate tech gives the option to attack on different places.
I don't mind them attacking on different places, but this isn't whats happening. Protoss is using it to attack one places over and over till someone falls (all the 2base all-in builds).
Give pylon a limit on warp in (lets say 10/min). This would allow multi-point harasses and defending drops, but it would cripple all these boring 2 base all-in protoss are pulling almost more than 50% of their games
'TvT matches can get a little stale.' (From the interview)
He's right. He's not saying it happens every game. He's not denying TvT in general is in a bad place. He's only saying TvT does sometimes get stale. I agree with him.
I don't know why you would base your opinion of HotS on an interview from a single person. You realise he's not the only one developing this game right? In fact, neither you nor anyone here has any clue of how competent their development team is. You can interpret and say whatever you like, but it's based on absolutely nothing.
You're absolutely right man, an interview by the lead designer of a game, wherein he explains his rationale about the stuff they're changing in an expansion, is absolutely nothing. Can't base opinions on anything he says. I should just buy the game, and then listen to people like you tell me to wait for LotV before judging it.
Seriously, what can I base my opinion on, in your view?
And for the TvT thing, it gets "stale" a lot less than basically every other matchup in the game, so why single it out? It's like he said he thought it was too easy to expand in PvP.
Seriously, what can I base my opinion on, in your view?
At this point, nothing. That's my point. No one knows how it will work out, so any opinion on balance is just arbitrary. There's no beta yet, and even beta will not mean that much. You can have opinion about the new units in design technical perspective, but it's way too early to say anything about balance. He's obviously singling out TvT because that's where his new unit is relevant.
I'm glad I'm not as negative as so many people here. I'll apparently get to enjoy HotS much more.
Oh well, this is going be quite hilarious i think, beta is going be crazy fun though, think i actually might play the beta more than the actual game with the imbalance there is going to be xD
Bio really is the standard in TvP. There are certain openings with factory units like the 1-1-1 or openings with helions. But in general mech is not used and biomech is only useful for a short amount of time, not when the protoss has all his tech available.
So you have never seen Marineking or SuperNova use marine tank timings? Or Byun do it vs Genius like last week? MMM + Seige is like the standard build used in all macro match ups as of late including vs P
The key word is timing. I said it is only useful for a short amount of time. How often do you see terrans fighting a 200 porotss army with collosy, templars, archons, chargelots and immortals using mech. Maybe it happend once or twice, but it is definitly rare.
EPT
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