EPTSC plot holes that bother you [spoiler] - Page 4
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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DreamScaR
Canada2127 Posts
There's one thing though that no one has pointed out, and that involves the secret mission which ties in to the final Zeratul mission with the Hybrids. Judging by the timeline involved, if you beat all of the Zeratul missions when you first get access to it the above statement I just posted makes no sense. That would mean that besides that planet there were others (which was speculated by Raynor mind you). You would think that one of the other planets doing such experiments were to have an issue there would have been more of a lockdown. I think that the secret mission and the final mission of Zeratul will have a lot of lasting impact in HotS. Also to the point of the final cinematic, Tychus isn't dead. There's a lot of holes that don't get filled to make stories later on have more lasting value to them. There was a lot of time that Valerian would have had to modify the suit very easily. It would have been reported back that he was dead while Raynor gets his moment in the sunset? with Kerrigan. Let's jump to another subject here where I believe Humga has it perfectly. On August 05 2010 00:38 Humga wrote: It makes perfect sense that Mengsk and his son are working together for a greater purpose. I think that greater purpose has alot to do with Narud (Duran). The mobieous foundation seemed to be pulling all the strings (a.k.a Duran) Duran is controlling Mengsk. THAT"S why they know what the artifect does (Duran is Xel Naga), THAT'S why they know Kerrigan would be human at the end. THAT'S why Kerrigan couldn't find the artifact. . That right there explains half of the conversation in the first two pages of this. Personally I think that the next game will continue off with you fighting off the remaining Terran on Char, something like the Leviathan will appear to take command (by the way, that was a scary hero for the zerg) and the advancement will continue to go after either Kerrigan again (we all know it'll happen) or some unseen uberghost or possibly Tosh. One last thought, from reading most of the StarCraft books this seems to be pretty on par with what I expected the story line to be. A little bit over predictable at points with a lot of fanfare and a heroic moment. One thing I wish for is a book to fill in a lot of the gaps from this first game of three. | ||
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BrogMaN
United States108 Posts
On August 05 2010 06:47 Macavity wrote: Blizzard has yet to explain why Xel-Naga junk creates Zerg nukes. I disagree. While they haven't stated it directly, they have heavily hinted at it, especially in the Zeratul missions. It's made pretty obvious that the only way to defeat the Xel-Naga and prevent the destruction of the entire galaxy (universe?) is by using the might of the Swarm/Kerrigan. The Xel-Naga obviously know this. Unfortunately they still need the Zerg DNA to fuse with Protoss to create the next generation of Xel-Naga. So instead of just destroying the Zerg outright, which they probably have the power to do, they create these Artifacts that can cleanse/destroy nearby Zerg so when they finally come in to take over they will be able to deal with the Swarm. At least that's what I have surmised from the campaign/books/lore. I'm sure I'm not exactly right but it feels like a reasonable explanation | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
The Battlecruiser boarding scene was pretty bad, I'm not sure what was going through the storywriter's mind when he wrote that in. | ||
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perfectflaw72
Canada94 Posts
On August 04 2010 00:24 Ndugu wrote: As for 1, there are a thousand reasons Terran technological advancement could have slowed. Perhaps the type of technology used by Terrans peaked long ago, but they don't have the psionic/magic-energy powers of the Protoss to progress in a new direction. As for 2, I think its pretty clear that almost all the Terran forces were wiped out. An unimaginably powerful Xel'naga artifact was being used to periodically wipe out every single Zerg in a large radius. yeah but they landed derectly on char THE home planet of the zerg where they live and spawn so youd think that for every 1 marine that lands on the planet their is 100 lings 20 hydras 10 roachs... with the spore cannons it would be impossible to land units so you have to use drop pods but they scatter everywhere and should instantly be overwhelmed but in the game they give you time to get their, yeah the plot has problemes but hey its sc LOVE IT | ||
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perfectflaw72
Canada94 Posts
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Demarini
United States151 Posts
On August 05 2010 12:05 perfectflaw72 wrote: im thinking that in HotS kerrigan will still have control over zerg with her PSI capabilitys and that maybe shes not fully human like her hair was still zergy and not human she still very pale well it was like...5 minutes after she went from the almighty queen of blades to just kerrigan again, she probably needed a good shower and some make-up. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On August 05 2010 12:02 perfectflaw72 wrote: yeah but they landed derectly on char THE home planet of the zerg where they live and spawn so youd think that for every 1 marine that lands on the planet their is 100 lings 20 hydras 10 roachs... with the spore cannons it would be impossible to land units so you have to use drop pods but they scatter everywhere and should instantly be overwhelmed but in the game they give you time to get their, yeah the plot has problemes but hey its sc LOVE IT Did you even play the game? Did you watch the videos of the Dominion landing on Char? They were getting fucked up beyond belief. Anyone who bitches about the sc2 story (and there are plenty) should read through this thread. It pretty much explains why all your complains are ignorant or stupid. | ||
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alsowikk
109 Posts
1. Kerrigan still has some zerg strands in her. How else can she survive on char? It's a hell hole that even marines are having trouble coping with(not even counting the zerg). 2. The invasion of Char worked because of many factors, like how the fleet engaged the zerg everywhere. Kerrigan had to manage all of it at once, and she may or may not be thinking about the prophecy. The fleet got wrecked terribly, because the zerg do have the number and the only reason Raynor made it through was he got a small task force out of what he had then proceeded to strike a critical blow to a "safe" section of the hive(and this is all going on where 90% of the zerg are far away from Char, and Kerrrigan has been throwing the zerg against eachother to build new species). Even with all this they barely manage to set off the artifcat before the zerg overwhelmed them. 3. The Xel naga are dead. The zerg killed them outright.(with poisonous gasses and traces of lead /referrence). The dark voice is a creature or thing of great power that may be a fallen Xel'Naga but it also installed the "destroy everything" directive into the zerg's dna. Essentially it controls duran who controls mengsk who will unleash the hybrids which will anihilate all the Terran before working on the protoss(if kerrigan dies...if she lives the future will be changed, but how isn't clear) 4. Kerrigan's zerg "hair" would be dead skin cells or it's like the protoss "hair" and increases her psi capabiltiy. She(and anyone else) can control the zerg with intense psi energy and since Kerrigan is the best ghosts they ever made...she has plenty of psi to spare. 5. Zeratul talks of the uncertainty he feels about the reason for the Xel'naga's return. He actually has it 100% right but doesn't realize it, because the Xel'Naga save the species that have purity of form(protoss) and purity of essence(zerg) by combining them with the crystals that hold immense power. It destroys the species but creates new Xel'Naga and saves them from death. The other thing it could mean is that their is at least one Xel'naga that wants to destroy the protoss and everyone else(the fallen one/dark voice) | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 05 2010 12:22 On_Slaught wrote: Did you even play the game? Did you watch the videos of the Dominion landing on Char? They were getting fucked up beyond belief. Anyone who bitches about the sc2 story (and there are plenty) should read through this thread. It pretty much explains why all your complains are ignorant or stupid. No, it doesn't. It's just a bunch of B.S. speculation to try to explain away plot holes. Almost nothing in this thread has been even remotely hinted at by Blizzard. | ||
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0mar
United States567 Posts
The Zerg. They went from an unknowable, alien entity to an enslaved race. Except that nothing in any lore hinted at the Overmind being a slave. The prophecy. Whenever you run out of real ideas, throw in a crap prophecy to move the story. And of course, that prophecy has to be 90-100% true, with just enough wiggle room for free-will. Tassadar's sacrifice going from being ultimate and final to him coming back as a ghost and advising the Protoss. Why can't anyone's sacrifice truly be final? It's such a dumb trope. The Hyperion boarding the Dominion flagship when there's a fleet guarding it. The crew should have mutinied against Raynor right there because that is a suicidal maneuver. The Hyperion will be a sitting duck while Raynor and Tychus play cowboy. The only reason nothing happened was because Raynor has plot armor. Also, Valerian gets the award for being the dumbest shit ever. Instead of hailing Raynor as soon as he warps in, he plays this ridiculous game in which a thousand things can go wrong and end his entire gambit. Mengsk going from the person who singlehandedly built an empire from the ashes of the Confederacy to being borderline retarded. Xel'Naga technology doing exactly what you need it to do with zero understanding. It's like putting together a puzzle of a nuclear bomb then discovering you can actually nuke cities. Just dumb, the entire deus ex machina of the Xel'Naga artifacts is just sloppy story telling. The Tal'Darim. Where the hell did they come from and why do they manage to have every single piece of the Xel'Naga artifact? How did they find it in the first place? Kerrigan going from being super-cunning and intelligent to becoming a sledgehammer. Also, how did she find out about the location of the prophecy? She just happens to conveniently show up where Zeratul is? Dumb. She didn't even follow Zeratul, she was there before he was. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On August 05 2010 12:50 Stratos_speAr wrote: No, it doesn't. It's just a bunch of B.S. speculation to try to explain away plot holes. Almost nothing in this thread has been even remotely hinted at by Blizzard. What you should take from all this "speculation" is that there is going to be a follow up. The point is that there are no plot holes because the plot isn't done. What has been pointed out is that it is EASY to explain all of these things with very reasonable explanations (which some people have tried to give) in the next game. Everyone selling the story before we even really know what the story is are foolish. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On August 05 2010 13:03 0mar wrote: Biggest plotholes; The Zerg. They went from an unknowable, alien entity to an enslaved race. Except that nothing in any lore hinted at the Overmind being a slave. The prophecy. Whenever you run out of real ideas, throw in a crap prophecy to move the story. And of course, that prophecy has to be 90-100% true, with just enough wiggle room for free-will. Tassadar's sacrifice going from being ultimate and final to him coming back as a ghost and advising the Protoss. Why can't anyone's sacrifice truly be final? It's such a dumb trope. The Hyperion boarding the Dominion flagship when there's a fleet guarding it. The crew should have mutinied against Raynor right there because that is a suicidal maneuver. The Hyperion will be a sitting duck while Raynor and Tychus play cowboy. The only reason nothing happened was because Raynor has plot armor. Also, Valerian gets the award for being the dumbest shit ever. Instead of hailing Raynor as soon as he warps in, he plays this ridiculous game in which a thousand things can go wrong and end his entire gambit. Mengsk going from the person who singlehandedly built an empire from the ashes of the Confederacy to being borderline retarded. Xel'Naga technology doing exactly what you need it to do with zero understanding. It's like putting together a puzzle of a nuclear bomb then discovering you can actually nuke cities. Just dumb, the entire deus ex machina of the Xel'Naga artifacts is just sloppy story telling. The Tal'Darim. Where the hell did they come from and why do they manage to have every single piece of the Xel'Naga artifact? How did they find it in the first place? Kerrigan going from being super-cunning and intelligent to becoming a sledgehammer. Also, how did she find out about the location of the prophecy? She just happens to conveniently show up where Zeratul is? Dumb. She didn't even follow Zeratul, she was there before he was. Wow this is a terrible post. 1. What's wrong with this? It's like you answered your own question. We know very little about them. We found out something. So what? Zeratul has hinted at this multiple times anyway. 2. Again what's wrong with this? The prophecy is just what they call it. How about we call it a "warning" since that's all it was. This is how the SC universe works. Zeratul found some left over stones that lay out what the process is. They try to get ready to stop it before it comes. Sweet. 3. Ya because dragoons don't exist right? There is a clear ethereal elemenet to the protoss and tassadar, who had mastered both dark and light, clearly has access to this. He broke apart his physical body to destroy the overmind so it's not a stretch that his "being" would survive. 4. Why it worked is pretty obvious... because Valerian allowed it. Why would he want the help of Raynor if he couldn't even kill a couple of marines? Plus, the whole "so many things could of gone wrong" applies to literally almost every single movie, anime or show ever made. Doesn't even hold weight anymore. 5. Clearly there is more to Mengsk than meets the eye. If it turns out there isn't then i'll join you in "this is dumb." Can't say that for a few years tho. Even then, this isn't even a plot hole. 6. Again, they obviously had understanding. The moebius foundation has been working on this stuff for a while and it's all but certain that Duran is leading this research. Assuming it is, he obviously has the knowledge necessary. Plus, it seems that the artifact was built for this exact reason so why wouldn't it do what it did? 7. Not a plot hole. They could of been watching over them for centuries for all we know. They are fanatics who spent a lot of time looking for them. They eventually found them. What's wrong with that? 8. Few things on this. First, you could just say that Kerrigan was only so cunning because of Duran and that without him she lost her best strategist. Second, we don't know if there is some greater plan here. If she knew what the artifact did, and it turns out it makes her stronger by balancing her human/zerg powers, then it would make sense to either steal it for herself and use it as you see fit/study it etc. It seems clear to me that there is more to this since her attack on the Dominion comes off as random. I find it very unlikely that it would end up being nothing more than random fighting for hte hell of it. Last, who cares how she got there. Maybe she found it the same way Zeratul did. She does have billions of zerg looking for it around the galaxy... Oh and another thing. She clearly had a connection with the mind of the Overmind who had clear knowledge of the prophecy. That enough could tell her what she needed to know and where things were. Basically, no. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 05 2010 13:48 On_Slaught wrote: What you should take from all this "speculation" is that there is going to be a follow up. The point is that there are no plot holes because the plot isn't done. What has been pointed out is that it is EASY to explain all of these things with very reasonable explanations (which some people have tried to give) in the next game. Everyone selling the story before we even really know what the story is are foolish. There's a difference between an open plot and a plot with holes in it. You seem to have confused the two. 1. What's wrong with this? It's like you answered your own question. We know very little about them. We found out something. So what? Zeratul has hinted at this multiple times anyway. 2. Again what's wrong with this? The prophecy is just what they call it. How about we call it a "warning" since that's all it was. This is how the SC universe works. Zeratul found some left over stones that lay out what the process is. They try to get ready to stop it before it comes. Sweet. 3. Ya because dragoons don't exist right? There is a clear ethereal elemenet to the protoss and tassadar, who had mastered both dark and light, clearly has access to this. He broke apart his physical body to destroy the overmind so it's not a stretch that his "being" would survive. The problem with these first three isn't that they happened, it's that it's terrible story telling because it was poorly presented and it has been done plenty of times and even in Blizzard's own work (Warcraft). 4. Why it worked is pretty obvious... because Valerian allowed it. Why would he want the help of Raynor if he couldn't even kill a couple of marines? Plus, the whole "so many things could of gone wrong" applies to literally almost every single movie, anime or show ever made. Doesn't even hold weight anymore. What's stupid is that Raynor actually thought of doing this. He is supposed to be an intelligent person (in terms of strategy and tactics) yet any grandma would know that this is suicide. 5. Clearly there is more to Mengsk than meets the eye. If it turns out there isn't then i'll join you in "this is dumb." Can't say that for a few years tho. Even then, this isn't even a plot hole. No, there is nothing clear. There was absolutely nothing about Mengsk shown to us through WoL other than the fact that he's an idiot now. 6. Again, they obviously had understanding. The moebius foundation has been working on this stuff for a while and it's all but certain that Duran is leading this research. Assuming it is, he obviously has the knowledge necessary. Plus, it seems that the artifact was built for this exact reason so why wouldn't it do what it did? So how does Duran just know this stuff? Furthermore, how does no one get suspicious? Not only that, why would Duran want to wipe out so many Zerg and cure Kerrigan? Again, the main problem is that so many things are left so unbelievably wide open with not even a hint of what's going on. Oh, and the other problem is this whole idea of the artifact. Super weapons tend to just be lazy story telling (and they are in this situation). There are few situations where super weapons should be used and they need to be used correctly or it just cheapens the story. 7. Not a plot hole. They could of been watching over them for centuries for all we know. They are fanatics who spent a lot of time looking for them. They eventually found them. What's wrong with that? Not a plot hole, but a complete failure in story telling. There is no depth to these characters. 8. Few things on this. First, you could just say that Kerrigan was only so cunning because of Duran and that without him she lost her best strategist. Second, we don't know if there is some greater plan here. If she knew what the artifact did, and it turns out it makes her stronger by balancing her human/zerg powers, then it would make sense to either steal it for herself and use it as you see fit/study it etc. It seems clear to me that there is more to this since her attack on the Dominion comes off as random. I find it very unlikely that it would end up being nothing more than random fighting for hte hell of it. Last, who cares how she got there. Maybe she found it the same way Zeratul did. She does have billions of zerg looking for it around the galaxy... Oh and another thing. She clearly had a connection with the mind of the Overmind who had clear knowledge of the prophecy. That enough could tell her what she needed to know and where things were. You only say the bold part in a blind attempt to justify this terrible story. There was no real hint of this going on in BW. And like I've said so many times, all of these theories are great, but the problem is that Blizzard hasn't hinted at any of this. All they showed us was an absolutely pathetic character that was more one-dimensional than Sauron. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On August 05 2010 13:03 0mar wrote: Biggest plotholes; The Zerg. They went from an unknowable, alien entity to an enslaved race. Except that nothing in any lore hinted at the Overmind being a slave. The prophecy. Whenever you run out of real ideas, throw in a crap prophecy to move the story. And of course, that prophecy has to be 90-100% true, with just enough wiggle room for free-will. Tassadar's sacrifice going from being ultimate and final to him coming back as a ghost and advising the Protoss. Why can't anyone's sacrifice truly be final? It's such a dumb trope. The Hyperion boarding the Dominion flagship when there's a fleet guarding it. The crew should have mutinied against Raynor right there because that is a suicidal maneuver. The Hyperion will be a sitting duck while Raynor and Tychus play cowboy. The only reason nothing happened was because Raynor has plot armor. Also, Valerian gets the award for being the dumbest shit ever. Instead of hailing Raynor as soon as he warps in, he plays this ridiculous game in which a thousand things can go wrong and end his entire gambit. Mengsk going from the person who singlehandedly built an empire from the ashes of the Confederacy to being borderline retarded. Xel'Naga technology doing exactly what you need it to do with zero understanding. It's like putting together a puzzle of a nuclear bomb then discovering you can actually nuke cities. Just dumb, the entire deus ex machina of the Xel'Naga artifacts is just sloppy story telling. The Tal'Darim. Where the hell did they come from and why do they manage to have every single piece of the Xel'Naga artifact? How did they find it in the first place? Kerrigan going from being super-cunning and intelligent to becoming a sledgehammer. Also, how did she find out about the location of the prophecy? She just happens to conveniently show up where Zeratul is? Dumb. She didn't even follow Zeratul, she was there before he was. I agree 100% on all accounts. The Mengsk being a blubbering idiot really made my blood boil, he just wasn't like that at all in broodwar. Basically they took these clever, brilliantly crafted characters and simplified them past the point of just being archetypes, they're just simpleton stereotypes now. I enjoyed playing the campaign, but the story itself just struck me as being bad. Not only does it not really cohere with what happened in broodwar, but it just doesn't add much to the story, and just isn't particularly interesting. 23 missions for you to grab 5 artifacts, go to char, and activate the finished artifact, that's it. The whole Zeratul prophecy shit is practically irrelevant, because it has no basis in this campaign's story at all. The end of the game mentions the prophecy zero times, you could've skipped those missions and you wouldn't have lost anything. They just feel out of place to me. The secret mission: oh noes the terrans are making hybrids! Well, the bonus mission in broodwar was "oh noes someone is making hybrids!". Never saw that coming. | ||
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biarecare
United States76 Posts
On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote: I've always wondered this in SC1: 1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries. Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous. 2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group? Her zerg army was never defeated, Raynor's forces+Domion simply held long enough for the crystal to activate. my plotholes are 1. Why was Tychus against Raynor's invasion of Char (even got into a fight with him in the bar) when he needs to kill Kerrigan? 2. Why would Arcturus assign him such an impossible mission? 3. And why didn't Megnsk order Tychus to kill Raynor for good? | ||
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Zombo Joe
Canada850 Posts
He had a Dominion while Raynor had 1 broken down Battlecruiser. I remember Raynor saying something about Arcturus downplaying Raynor instead of killing him. | ||
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Uriel_SVK
Slovakia427 Posts
On August 05 2010 15:28 biarecare wrote: Her zerg army was never defeated, Raynor's forces+Domion simply held long enough for the crystal to activate. my plotholes are 1. Why was Tychus against Raynor's invasion of Char (even got into a fight with him in the bar) when he needs to kill Kerrigan? 2. Why would Arcturus assign him such an impossible mission? 3. And why didn't Megnsk order Tychus to kill Raynor for good? I think Tychus was against char invasion, because he knew how it will end - he has to kill Kerrigan or die. And after killing Kerrigan he would lose Raynor's friendship. And i dont believe that Arcturus send him to Char. I dont even believe that Tychus was controled by Arcturus. Why would he send him to Raynor with orders to gather artifacts? He had an army that he could use for that. I think that Valerian was controling Tychus from the begining, he used Raynor to gather artifacts, because if he used army for that, his father might have found out what he is planning. Arcturus might not have an idea what is the purpose of artifact. Valerian and Duran would like to kill Kerrigan, but they know that brute force won't work here. So they use the artifact to make Kerrigan human so she can be killed. I think they found a way to control zerg, but they need Kerrigan dead. Valerian is the new bad guy for me. He said that he would like to be better than his father, but he has no problem with Raynor killing his guards. Good leader would not allow that. | ||
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ooni
Australia1498 Posts
On August 04 2010 01:15 Itsarabbit wrote: How tychus Findlay switched loyalty to Mengsk, and basicly destroyed his leadership through the Odin, then tries to kill kerrigan?! My speculation is Tychus' mission was to kill Kerrigan from the very beginning (Tosh says Tychus needs to do what he doesn't want). However, I think Tychus was initially working for Mengsk II. That's why his son wanted to ruin Mengsk's reputation through the Odin mission. Later on I'm guessing Tychus switched loyalty to Mengsk for a reason that will be explained in HotS. There you go plot hole filled in. Still, a crap story. | ||
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hns
Germany609 Posts
This surely opens another question - why Mengsk would let Tychus help bringing him down? There's a load of possibilities for that. Maybe Tychus just didn't tell Mengsk what they were up to with the Odin/the broadcast, and Tychus was in too much of a valueable position for Mengsk to punish him afterwards. Maybe Mengsk allowed it to not make Raynor even more suspicious (he seems to have gotten through the whole affair pretty well in the end). But I agree: Too many maybes here. (edit: Maybe this is just another point where the subplots (here: bringing down Mengsk) aren't connected properly to the main storyline (artifcat / Kerrigan). Without Tychus' active role in bringing down Mengsk his whole role would have been a lot more clear. :/) | ||
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