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On August 04 2010 00:55 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +1. Consider the amount of people we have in prision today that are scientists philosophers and other educated intellegent people whos only crimes are disagreeing with the people in power. They would help to keep pace with tech. I have also seen fan speculation that the UED came with a relitively small force and relied on local manufacturing like the Dylar shipyards. Also they UED brought medics too, I suppose heal beams are pretty high tech. (I have wondered this my self and I dont think this is a good enough explaination. ) Actually, that speculation is from Chris Metzen himself. According to him, the UED brought only a small force to the Koprulu sector and mostly relied on local equipment and tech. Even so, they managed to get all the way from Earth VERY fast (a matter of weeks, not months), so they do have better technology at least in this regard. As for (2), keep in mind that they most definitely do not defeat her. The invasion with a third of the fleet fails miserably, tens of thousands of troops are eaten alive on Char or are being pursued across the planet. In the confusion, Raynor manages to pull a small force together and reach the hive cluster under the cover of battle; then, they use the equivalent of a anti-Zerg nuke and a very defensible position (even against the Zerg, this is important) to hold out just long enough to activate the uber-superweapon. If it wasn't for the artifact, they would have been wiped out in a matter of minutes...and most of the Dominion troops almost certainly were anyway. So I don't find it that hard to believe.
still, the story poorly reflects these facts regardless, i feel like it was conveyed in a pretty sloppy way
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
1)They stole the ships and technology from the Dominions own Dylerian Shipyards and industrial centers,anyway it was not important to the plot line so they didnt go into detail at the time....
2)They didnt beat anything,they lost,only the artifact allowed them to survive long enough to turn Kerrigan,yet even after that only the closest zerg hive clusters were destroyed,while the battle still raged across the would,as shown if the final cinematic with zerg still out of Chars tunnel networks swarming the close orbit and dominion ships falling from the sky in flames........
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On August 04 2010 01:06 Noev wrote:
Your forgetting the most powerful fact of them all one that makes the artifact look like a toy... the power of being the main character(s). Everyone know this one ability can allow you to succeed in a situation where anyone/anything else would fail, never over estimate that trait.
This only works if you're not a George R. R. Martin Character 
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
1) Bliz admitted it was a plothole they wish they had dealt better with. Their caveat is that it was a very small expeditionary force that improvised as they went (i.e. the hijacking at the Dylarian shipyards). I think that's a semi-reasonable explanation. You would expect them to carry /some/ advanced tech with thier initial fleet, but I'll suspend disbelief a bit.
2) I sort of assumed that it took all of her power to barely hold off the attack at the end of Brood War. That's a big reason why the zerg waited four years to begin the second push.
As stated before, a fairly substantial force was able to pierce through a weakned zerg defense to detonate a superweapon. They didn't beat the zerg in a toe to toe engagement, they merely were able to force their way into a position to use an insta-win card.
What I find more interesting/disturbing is how the Terran Dominion manages to produce BC fleets so quickly.
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Ahem, MY forces would have only survived minutes without the artifact?
CLEARLY you don't know how I command my army and how little I lost in that battle. =P Notice how the invasion only was failing when I WASN'T in control of the army. Once the missions started it was all a cake walk.
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The thing that bugs me is more of character motivation.
If Tychus is working for Mengsk (Sr.) then what's the deal with that? Why would he let Tychus help broadcast the Adjuct's recording or even steal the Odin? Presumably he doesn't know about the artifacts or planned invasion of char as he makes no attempt to secure the artifacts and he yells at his son for his actions when he learns about it, so it makes no sense to be waiting for Tychus to be near Kerrigan. If Mengsk had any inclination of any of that sort of stuff was going on it wasn't communicated. Rather than having his son work with Raynor he could have used Tychus' information to grab the artifacts himself and cut Raynor out.
What's Kerrigan's motivation? Why is she seeking the artifacts if she's all emo and uncaring about the world? Why would she seek all of them at once instead of focusing on trying to find one of them? She seems to know where the one is in Smash & Grab (or whatever the mission is where you race her to the artifact), so why not focus all her energy on that one piece.
What's the deal with Hanson's choice? If you side with her the planet is all fine; against her and it's a zerg hive. Presumably your choice doesn't affect the spread of the zerg virus. Even if you save the planet it should be under heavy infection which would run counter to the idea of leaving her on the planet later on (as it's basically a zerg hive).
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Ahem, MY forces would have only survived minutes without the artifact?
CLEARLY you don't know how I command my army and how little I lost in that battle. =P Notice how the invasion only was failing when I WASN'T in control of the army. Once the missions started it was all a cake walk.
Game mechanics aren't canon, friend. If they were, then Kerrigan spent the entire battle against the Protoss on New Gettysburg huddled in the middle of your base while a 200/200 army of Battlecruisers wiped out everything for her. 
If Tychus is working for Mengsk (Sr.) then what's the deal with that? Why would he let Tychus help broadcast the Adjuct's recording or even steal the Odin? Presumably he doesn't know about the artifacts or planned invasion of char as he makes no attempt to secure the artifacts and he yells at his son for his actions when he learns about it, so it makes no sense to be waiting for Tychus to be near Kerrigan. If Mengsk had any inclination of any of that sort of stuff was going on it wasn't communicated. Rather than having his son work with Raynor he could have used Tychus' information to grab the artifacts himself and cut Raynor out.
What's Kerrigan's motivation? Why is she seeking the artifacts if she's all emo and uncaring about the world? Why would she seek all of them at once instead of focusing on trying to find one of them? She seems to know where the one is in Smash & Grab (or whatever the mission is where you race her to the artifact), so why not focus all her energy on that one piece.
What's the deal with Hanson's choice? If you side with her the planet is all fine; against her and it's a zerg hive. Presumably your choice doesn't affect the spread of the zerg virus. Even if you save the planet it should be under heavy infection which would run counter to the idea of leaving her on the planet later on (as it's basically a zerg hive).
Tychus's heart is clearly with the Raiders, rather than with Mengsk. The main reason he's obeying Mengsk at all is because there's a thing in his suit that will kill him if he doesn't, and because he wants to go free. Other than that, though, he's perfectly happy to help out Raynor and kill the Dominion...which imprisoned him and then strapped a bomb to his chest.
Mengsk isn't monitoring him every second, not while he's in the middle of the Raiders. He doesn't know about what Tychus is up to unless Tychus reports to him...but he can still kill him anytime. And Mengsk has almost definitely been in contact with Duran and the Moebius Foundation, and so knows about the artifacts and their purpose; and he almost definitely knows about Valerian's plans as well. Mengsk probably gifted Tychus to Valerian, rather than Raynor directly, to use to find the artifacts and help activate them.
Valerian wants Tychus to go to Raynor because he's the only person who's been in the presence of the QoBs and not died, and he thinks they can use that when the time comes, and because with the Zerg invasion going on and all the Dominion forces sequestered in the Core he needs someone to go after the artifacts for him.
Mengsk probably wasn't expecting Valerian to take the fleet suddenly and make a frontal assault on Char...he probably had something else (smarter) planned, like attacking the QoBs when she was off-world. But in any event, Mengsk knew that Valerian was planning to save the QoBs rather than killing her, so Tychus would be in position when that happened to make sure Kerrigan was dealt with.
Kerrigan knows that Narud is Duran, and she knows that the artifact is a threat to her; that's all the reasons she needs to go after it and destroy or capture it. She doesn't want to be de-infested or killed.
Hanson may have developed some kind of cure for the infestation...it's not spelled out, though, which is disappointing. But in any event, the infested colonists can still be sequestered and killed, if necessary.
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Meh, I personally think you're being whiny. Again.
Regardless of this I will say one thing that tickled the back of my brain while playing was how on the UNN reports (and I believe in SC/BW) they reported BILLIONS of casualties from the Zerg and unless reach unit represents a full battalion or something then the numbers for the final confrontation don't quite seem to match up.
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Lol, this is like Inception the movie... Everyone in the audience is supposed to just ACCEPT that we can enter someone else's dream, with no explanation of how we do it.
Yet, in order to enjoy the story, you must blindly follow along with the premise.
SC is the same.
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LOL @ high heels 
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Game mechanics aren't canon, friend. If they were, then Kerrigan spent the entire battle against the Protoss on New Gettysburg huddled in the middle of your base while a 200/200 army of Battlecruisers wiped out everything for her.
Not in my game she didnt
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I dunno, that all seems a little contrived and none of it is even hinted at in game*. I think you have the story right (other than Mengsk knowing Narud is Duran), but very little of it is really presented well.
*other than Tychus' betrayal and his motivations for that. I get that much of his character, I just don't get how he's been a good mole for Mengsk.
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On August 04 2010 05:10 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +Ahem, MY forces would have only survived minutes without the artifact?
CLEARLY you don't know how I command my army and how little I lost in that battle. =P Notice how the invasion only was failing when I WASN'T in control of the army. Once the missions started it was all a cake walk. Game mechanics aren't canon, friend. If they were, then Kerrigan spent the entire battle against the Protoss on New Gettysburg huddled in the middle of your base while a 200/200 army of Battlecruisers wiped out everything for her. Show nested quote +If Tychus is working for Mengsk (Sr.) then what's the deal with that? Why would he let Tychus help broadcast the Adjuct's recording or even steal the Odin? Presumably he doesn't know about the artifacts or planned invasion of char as he makes no attempt to secure the artifacts and he yells at his son for his actions when he learns about it, so it makes no sense to be waiting for Tychus to be near Kerrigan. If Mengsk had any inclination of any of that sort of stuff was going on it wasn't communicated. Rather than having his son work with Raynor he could have used Tychus' information to grab the artifacts himself and cut Raynor out.
What's Kerrigan's motivation? Why is she seeking the artifacts if she's all emo and uncaring about the world? Why would she seek all of them at once instead of focusing on trying to find one of them? She seems to know where the one is in Smash & Grab (or whatever the mission is where you race her to the artifact), so why not focus all her energy on that one piece.
What's the deal with Hanson's choice? If you side with her the planet is all fine; against her and it's a zerg hive. Presumably your choice doesn't affect the spread of the zerg virus. Even if you save the planet it should be under heavy infection which would run counter to the idea of leaving her on the planet later on (as it's basically a zerg hive).
Tychus's heart is clearly with the Raiders, rather than with Mengsk. The main reason he's obeying Mengsk at all is because there's a thing in his suit that will kill him if he doesn't, and because he wants to go free. Other than that, though, he's perfectly happy to help out Raynor and kill the Dominion...which imprisoned him and then strapped a bomb to his chest. Mengsk isn't monitoring him every second, not while he's in the middle of the Raiders. He doesn't know about what Tychus is up to unless Tychus reports to him...but he can still kill him anytime. And Mengsk has almost definitely been in contact with Duran and the Moebius Foundation, and so knows about the artifacts and their purpose; and he almost definitely knows about Valerian's plans as well. Mengsk probably gifted Tychus to Valerian, rather than Raynor directly, to use to find the artifacts and help activate them. Valerian wants Tychus to go to Raynor because he's the only person who's been in the presence of the QoBs and not died, and he thinks they can use that when the time comes, and because with the Zerg invasion going on and all the Dominion forces sequestered in the Core he needs someone to go after the artifacts for him. Mengsk probably wasn't expecting Valerian to take the fleet suddenly and make a frontal assault on Char...he probably had something else (smarter) planned, like attacking the QoBs when she was off-world. But in any event, Mengsk knew that Valerian was planning to save the QoBs rather than killing her, so Tychus would be in position when that happened to make sure Kerrigan was dealt with. Kerrigan knows that Narud is Duran, and she knows that the artifact is a threat to her; that's all the reasons she needs to go after it and destroy or capture it. She doesn't want to be de-infested or killed. Hanson may have developed some kind of cure for the infestation...it's not spelled out, though, which is disappointing. But in any event, the infested colonists can still be sequestered and killed, if necessary.
Yep agree with everything you said,but in my mind,Kerrigans desperation of her inevitable doom,as seem in the Zeratul mission happens in the past,where she does not know of the existence of the artifacts......shes spent 4 years in a hive cluster on Char,having these visions of a galaxy on fire...of the inevitable destruction of everything.....4 years....that could have convinced her it was inevitable....
However when she learned of the Artifact(in the Dark Templar saga),maybe they give here hope that she can fight her fate.....so she sends her swarms to scour the galaxy for them......
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Calgary25980 Posts
I really hate the SC universe in general. Raynor is a drunk cruising around in some Battle Cruiser with randoms and then takes over Char? The entire SC/BW/SC2 story involving Raynor is actually pretty dumb to me. I guess I'm not very imaginative but I can't believe anything of the Terran storyline. The Protoss / Zerg storylines were always way better to me.
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I'm hoping the entirety of the story for WoL makes more sense in the context of the next two expansions. However, I couldn't shake the feeling that the entire campaign was a giant deus ex machina.
Somehow Moebius and Valerian know that this mysterious artifact will burn away the Zerg, but somehow cures Zerg infestation instead of incinerating the infected person. The reason behind the power of this mysterious artifact is never really explained. Also never explained is why the Protoss didn't know this? A race, ravaged by the Zerg, somehow doesn't realize that these artifacts, when combined, constitute an ultimate weapon against the Zerg and a way to cripple their leader? If even the Protoss who own these artifacts don't know the power of them, how did Valerian learn of their power?
Lastly, Tychus. Oh, Tychus. What was his real job? You'd like to think that his job was to kill Raynor. But, his stated "purpose" was to kill Kerrigan in exchange for his freedom. Somehow he's communicating directly with Mengsk. How does Mengsk know that they're going to end up on Char in the first place? Certainly he seems surprised when Valerian talks to him. Raynor was after Mengsk, not Kerrigan. Raynor wanted Kerrigan dead too, so why would Tychus' secret mission be to assassinate Kerrigan? It doesn't make sense. The only point in the story after which it makes sense is after the Protoss prophecy mission. What does Mengsk fear if Kerrigan lives or dies? Why not have Tychus kill Raynor instead of Kerrigan? Why not kill both?
Those were the only real issues I had with the story, and even these weren't major. I was able to turn my brain off and enjoy it for the brainless action fluff that it is. I enjoyed the game very much and the campaign was brilliant. I do feel like Metzen just isn't as great a writer as I once thought he was. He's great and a really really cool guy, but these stories just aren't internally consistent.
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On August 04 2010 05:41 Chill wrote:
I really hate the SC universe in general. Raynor is a drunk cruising around in some Battle Cruiser with randoms and then takes over Char? The entire SC/BW/SC2 story involving Raynor is actually pretty dumb to me. I guess I'm not very imaginative but I can't believe anything of the Terran storyline. The Protoss / Zerg storylines were always way better to me.
all you have to do is BELIEVE in yourself and ANYTHING is possible!
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Well the UED tech is easily explained, they pobably left Earth as soon as the prison transports went off the radar. So really there might have only been a few years differencein their relative starting times.
However through whatever anamoly messed up the prison ships they got there a lot faster (relativity is a crazy thing). The UED took the normal route without incident and thus took much longer.
Also, the UED doesn't represent Earth strength at all, they are the futuristic version of the sherrif with his bloodhounds looking for escape convicts.
As for the terran being able to face the protoss its probably because the protoss have seriously regressed in their war ability. Kind of like if Georgre Foreman stepped into the ring against the current champion its just been too long and he has kept in shape.
You can see this from the way their tech is in SC2 all their "new" tech is really ancient stuff they are finding back or from their more warlike dark templar bros.
Also tech advantage isn't everything in war, terrans are much more decietful and cunning then both the protoss and the zerg (minus QoB who was a terran)
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On August 04 2010 02:04 Dezzimal wrote:High heels, the pinnacle of Zerg evolution. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/AzPAu.jpg)
Cuz S&M is nice.
I object to there being real gods in the game shit xal naga plz.
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
The whole point is that raynor and the dominion could not stop her without the artifact. The xel'naga were the gods, and because they had a xel'naga artifact and presumed to be weapon they were able to stop the queen of blades.
Obviosly, the zerg is not dead, and most likely kerrigans relationsip with the zerg is not either.
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On August 04 2010 02:41 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 01:06 Noev wrote:
Your forgetting the most powerful fact of them all one that makes the artifact look like a toy... the power of being the main character(s). Everyone know this one ability can allow you to succeed in a situation where anyone/anything else would fail, never over estimate that trait. This only works if you're not a George R. R. Martin Character
Yes but it's worth it because you get to have illicit relations with your sister. Uhm, not that I want to. >_>
Shit, abandon thread!
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EPT
