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I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
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How Terran can even have a fraction of a chance against any Protoss army. Raynor even says himself that they're just amobeas in comparasion (still claiming that their religios views limits them, but really REALLY?)
This is further reinforced by the protoss research notes that the scientists makes in the sc2 campaign
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On August 04 2010 00:19 ayadew wrote:
How Terran can even have a fraction of a chance against any Protoss army. Raynor even says himself that they're just amobeas in comparasion (still claiming that their religios views limits them, but really REALLY?)
This doesn't bother me much because it's just part of SC universe. But UED inherently doesn't make sense and contradicts with its very universe.
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who cares, it's a game
you should stop being so negative, i haven't seen you post a single positive thing about sc2.
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
They had the same Battlecruisers because they stole them.
The UED only sent a small task force in BW, as apposed to the entire fleet.
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As for 1, there are a thousand reasons Terran technological advancement could have slowed. Perhaps the type of technology used by Terrans peaked long ago, but they don't have the psionic/magic-energy powers of the Protoss to progress in a new direction.
As for 2, I think its pretty clear that almost all the Terran forces were wiped out.
An unimaginably powerful Xel'naga artifact was being used to periodically wipe out every single Zerg in a large radius.
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1. Consider the amount of people we have in prision today that are scientists philosophers and other educated intellegent people whos only crimes are disagreeing with the people in power. They would help to keep pace with tech. I have also seen fan speculation that the UED came with a relitively small force and relied on local manufacturing like the Dylar shipyards. Also they UED brought medics too, I suppose heal beams are pretty high tech. (I have wondered this my self and I dont think this is a good enough explaination. )
2. Kerrigans forces are spread out all over the sector, and she just starts pulling them back when she relizes she is being attacked. She wasn't expecting an attack on her homeworld so the garrison there might not have been that strong. Also you say she spent 4 years bolstering her forces and that is something I disagree with, she spent 4 years evolving her forces. Evolution requires competition so there is a good chance a large portion of the swarm was just constantly at war with it self killing and adapting for four years. In one of the stories they posted before the game went into beta they talk about how on one planet they were just throwing tons of zerglings at some colonists every day to evolve banelings. This produced better quality zerg troops, but at the cost of the quantity. When you add in the fact that kerrigan was over confident and reckless I think its plausable that they could manage to fight her
+ Show Spoiler +And that xel'naga artafact was pretty devistating
Just speculation of course but it could explain some of it.
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They had the artifact?
also kerrigan was going to win eventually but the artifact stopped her
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On August 04 2010 00:31 Zeroes wrote:
They had the artifact?
also kerrigan was going to win eventually but the artifact stopped her
well to explain how the paltry terran force was able to defeat the innumerable zerg in the story, there was that artifact that killed all zerg within its radius, pretty much cancelling out the numerical advantage every few minutes.
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I'm kind of a fan of the SC story the same way I'm a fan of 24 or someone's a fan of Rocky Horror Picture Show. The plot holes can be pretty glaring but it's still fun; baby suspend your disbelief and you and me can make some blue goo
1) gravity works perfectly well on space platforms (and things can only fly on one level)
2) I can have my troops airdropped in buy I can't drop bombs on zergies? Is this some kind of red tape at the Char customs?
3) The zerg swarm has a single nest for its flyers (maybe more of that red tape?)
4) Ok this is petty I know buy somehow when I mind-control an ultralisk its entire body chemistry is altered so that xel naga thing doesn't blow the shit out of it
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I don't find the fact that Raynor and Valerien's fleet were able to defeat Kerrigan very odd for two reasons. Obviously they had the artifact, which is absolutely devastating against the zerg. In addition, they didn't actually defeat the zerg militarily. The invasion force was getting its ass kicked, and barely held out long enough to activate an artifact to neutralize the Queen of Blades.
As for the UED problem, you can probably attribute that to the fact that Blizzard couldn't make an entirely new race to represent the UED in BW, so they just used terran units. Furthermore, who is to say that technological progress continued smoothly on Earth? Perhaps there was infighting, revolutions, disasters, and such that could have set back the progress of the Earth forces.
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The artifact is what bugs me most, they were all "Hmmm this mysterious artifact could help us!" and then they magically know how to use it and kill all the zerg? Not to mention they were able to get a successful foothold right beside the main hive?
Also they said that 80% of the flyers were in a nest, which is pretty believable tbh, the rest were offworld and the few remaining were so scattered you just never encountered them.
UED sent a small task force, so obviously they wouldn't be bringing all of their technology with them, they probably also figured if they brought things too advanced the dominion would be able to take that tech and use it against them.
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it always bothered me that mutas etc. just fly in space (in the cutscenes) like all of outer space was filled with an atmosphere.
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1. Consider the amount of people we have in prision today that are scientists philosophers and other educated intellegent people whos only crimes are disagreeing with the people in power. They would help to keep pace with tech. I have also seen fan speculation that the UED came with a relitively small force and relied on local manufacturing like the Dylar shipyards. Also they UED brought medics too, I suppose heal beams are pretty high tech. (I have wondered this my self and I dont think this is a good enough explaination. )
Actually, that speculation is from Chris Metzen himself. According to him, the UED brought only a small force to the Koprulu sector and mostly relied on local equipment and tech. Even so, they managed to get all the way from Earth VERY fast (a matter of weeks, not months), so they do have better technology at least in this regard.
As for (2), keep in mind that they most definitely do not defeat her. The invasion with a third of the fleet fails miserably, tens of thousands of troops are eaten alive on Char or are being pursued across the planet. In the confusion, Raynor manages to pull a small force together and reach the hive cluster under the cover of battle; then, they use the equivalent of a anti-Zerg nuke and a very defensible position (even against the Zerg, this is important) to hold out just long enough to activate the uber-superweapon. If it wasn't for the artifact, they would have been wiped out in a matter of minutes...and most of the Dominion troops almost certainly were anyway. So I don't find it that hard to believe.
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On August 04 2010 00:50 killa_robot wrote:
The artifact is what bugs me most, they were all "Hmmm this mysterious artifact could help us!" and then they magically know how to use it and kill all the zerg? Not to mention they were able to get a successful foothold right beside the main hive?
The Moebius Foundation is powerful and mysterious, which is echoed in the fact that their owner is the son of the Emperor.
That leads me to a big beef of mine, how come everyone except for Raynor is incompetent?
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Your forgetting the most powerful fact of them all one that makes the artifact look like a toy... the power of being the main character(s). Everyone know this one ability can allow you to succeed in a situation where anyone/anything else would fail, never over estimate that trait.
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He is the protagonist. In a more story related sense, Kerrigan has something resembling remaining soft spot for him so she goes kinda a bit soft on him.
Also it´s unfortunately not really mentioned but Kerrigan sends the majority of the Zerg off into the sector to search for the Artifact. There is a message in the last News segment that all the Zerg are retreating to Char.
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Refreshing to see someone criticise SC/BW instead of this constant bandwagon "zomg sc2 sux". Both games(or 3 if you will) have its plotholes/mistakes and stupid moments, one shouldn't forgive and forget because of nostalgia
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How tychus Findlay switched loyalty to Mengsk, and basicly destroyed his leadership through the Odin, then tries to kill kerrigan?!
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High heels, the pinnacle of Zerg evolution.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/AzPAu.jpg)
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On August 04 2010 00:55 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +1. Consider the amount of people we have in prision today that are scientists philosophers and other educated intellegent people whos only crimes are disagreeing with the people in power. They would help to keep pace with tech. I have also seen fan speculation that the UED came with a relitively small force and relied on local manufacturing like the Dylar shipyards. Also they UED brought medics too, I suppose heal beams are pretty high tech. (I have wondered this my self and I dont think this is a good enough explaination. ) Actually, that speculation is from Chris Metzen himself. According to him, the UED brought only a small force to the Koprulu sector and mostly relied on local equipment and tech. Even so, they managed to get all the way from Earth VERY fast (a matter of weeks, not months), so they do have better technology at least in this regard. As for (2), keep in mind that they most definitely do not defeat her. The invasion with a third of the fleet fails miserably, tens of thousands of troops are eaten alive on Char or are being pursued across the planet. In the confusion, Raynor manages to pull a small force together and reach the hive cluster under the cover of battle; then, they use the equivalent of a anti-Zerg nuke and a very defensible position (even against the Zerg, this is important) to hold out just long enough to activate the uber-superweapon. If it wasn't for the artifact, they would have been wiped out in a matter of minutes...and most of the Dominion troops almost certainly were anyway. So I don't find it that hard to believe.
still, the story poorly reflects these facts regardless, i feel like it was conveyed in a pretty sloppy way
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
1)They stole the ships and technology from the Dominions own Dylerian Shipyards and industrial centers,anyway it was not important to the plot line so they didnt go into detail at the time....
2)They didnt beat anything,they lost,only the artifact allowed them to survive long enough to turn Kerrigan,yet even after that only the closest zerg hive clusters were destroyed,while the battle still raged across the would,as shown if the final cinematic with zerg still out of Chars tunnel networks swarming the close orbit and dominion ships falling from the sky in flames........
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On August 04 2010 01:06 Noev wrote:
Your forgetting the most powerful fact of them all one that makes the artifact look like a toy... the power of being the main character(s). Everyone know this one ability can allow you to succeed in a situation where anyone/anything else would fail, never over estimate that trait.
This only works if you're not a George R. R. Martin Character 
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
1) Bliz admitted it was a plothole they wish they had dealt better with. Their caveat is that it was a very small expeditionary force that improvised as they went (i.e. the hijacking at the Dylarian shipyards). I think that's a semi-reasonable explanation. You would expect them to carry /some/ advanced tech with thier initial fleet, but I'll suspend disbelief a bit.
2) I sort of assumed that it took all of her power to barely hold off the attack at the end of Brood War. That's a big reason why the zerg waited four years to begin the second push.
As stated before, a fairly substantial force was able to pierce through a weakned zerg defense to detonate a superweapon. They didn't beat the zerg in a toe to toe engagement, they merely were able to force their way into a position to use an insta-win card.
What I find more interesting/disturbing is how the Terran Dominion manages to produce BC fleets so quickly.
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Ahem, MY forces would have only survived minutes without the artifact?
CLEARLY you don't know how I command my army and how little I lost in that battle. =P Notice how the invasion only was failing when I WASN'T in control of the army. Once the missions started it was all a cake walk.
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The thing that bugs me is more of character motivation.
If Tychus is working for Mengsk (Sr.) then what's the deal with that? Why would he let Tychus help broadcast the Adjuct's recording or even steal the Odin? Presumably he doesn't know about the artifacts or planned invasion of char as he makes no attempt to secure the artifacts and he yells at his son for his actions when he learns about it, so it makes no sense to be waiting for Tychus to be near Kerrigan. If Mengsk had any inclination of any of that sort of stuff was going on it wasn't communicated. Rather than having his son work with Raynor he could have used Tychus' information to grab the artifacts himself and cut Raynor out.
What's Kerrigan's motivation? Why is she seeking the artifacts if she's all emo and uncaring about the world? Why would she seek all of them at once instead of focusing on trying to find one of them? She seems to know where the one is in Smash & Grab (or whatever the mission is where you race her to the artifact), so why not focus all her energy on that one piece.
What's the deal with Hanson's choice? If you side with her the planet is all fine; against her and it's a zerg hive. Presumably your choice doesn't affect the spread of the zerg virus. Even if you save the planet it should be under heavy infection which would run counter to the idea of leaving her on the planet later on (as it's basically a zerg hive).
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Ahem, MY forces would have only survived minutes without the artifact?
CLEARLY you don't know how I command my army and how little I lost in that battle. =P Notice how the invasion only was failing when I WASN'T in control of the army. Once the missions started it was all a cake walk.
Game mechanics aren't canon, friend. If they were, then Kerrigan spent the entire battle against the Protoss on New Gettysburg huddled in the middle of your base while a 200/200 army of Battlecruisers wiped out everything for her. 
If Tychus is working for Mengsk (Sr.) then what's the deal with that? Why would he let Tychus help broadcast the Adjuct's recording or even steal the Odin? Presumably he doesn't know about the artifacts or planned invasion of char as he makes no attempt to secure the artifacts and he yells at his son for his actions when he learns about it, so it makes no sense to be waiting for Tychus to be near Kerrigan. If Mengsk had any inclination of any of that sort of stuff was going on it wasn't communicated. Rather than having his son work with Raynor he could have used Tychus' information to grab the artifacts himself and cut Raynor out.
What's Kerrigan's motivation? Why is she seeking the artifacts if she's all emo and uncaring about the world? Why would she seek all of them at once instead of focusing on trying to find one of them? She seems to know where the one is in Smash & Grab (or whatever the mission is where you race her to the artifact), so why not focus all her energy on that one piece.
What's the deal with Hanson's choice? If you side with her the planet is all fine; against her and it's a zerg hive. Presumably your choice doesn't affect the spread of the zerg virus. Even if you save the planet it should be under heavy infection which would run counter to the idea of leaving her on the planet later on (as it's basically a zerg hive).
Tychus's heart is clearly with the Raiders, rather than with Mengsk. The main reason he's obeying Mengsk at all is because there's a thing in his suit that will kill him if he doesn't, and because he wants to go free. Other than that, though, he's perfectly happy to help out Raynor and kill the Dominion...which imprisoned him and then strapped a bomb to his chest.
Mengsk isn't monitoring him every second, not while he's in the middle of the Raiders. He doesn't know about what Tychus is up to unless Tychus reports to him...but he can still kill him anytime. And Mengsk has almost definitely been in contact with Duran and the Moebius Foundation, and so knows about the artifacts and their purpose; and he almost definitely knows about Valerian's plans as well. Mengsk probably gifted Tychus to Valerian, rather than Raynor directly, to use to find the artifacts and help activate them.
Valerian wants Tychus to go to Raynor because he's the only person who's been in the presence of the QoBs and not died, and he thinks they can use that when the time comes, and because with the Zerg invasion going on and all the Dominion forces sequestered in the Core he needs someone to go after the artifacts for him.
Mengsk probably wasn't expecting Valerian to take the fleet suddenly and make a frontal assault on Char...he probably had something else (smarter) planned, like attacking the QoBs when she was off-world. But in any event, Mengsk knew that Valerian was planning to save the QoBs rather than killing her, so Tychus would be in position when that happened to make sure Kerrigan was dealt with.
Kerrigan knows that Narud is Duran, and she knows that the artifact is a threat to her; that's all the reasons she needs to go after it and destroy or capture it. She doesn't want to be de-infested or killed.
Hanson may have developed some kind of cure for the infestation...it's not spelled out, though, which is disappointing. But in any event, the infested colonists can still be sequestered and killed, if necessary.
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Meh, I personally think you're being whiny. Again.
Regardless of this I will say one thing that tickled the back of my brain while playing was how on the UNN reports (and I believe in SC/BW) they reported BILLIONS of casualties from the Zerg and unless reach unit represents a full battalion or something then the numbers for the final confrontation don't quite seem to match up.
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Lol, this is like Inception the movie... Everyone in the audience is supposed to just ACCEPT that we can enter someone else's dream, with no explanation of how we do it.
Yet, in order to enjoy the story, you must blindly follow along with the premise.
SC is the same.
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LOL @ high heels 
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Game mechanics aren't canon, friend. If they were, then Kerrigan spent the entire battle against the Protoss on New Gettysburg huddled in the middle of your base while a 200/200 army of Battlecruisers wiped out everything for her.
Not in my game she didnt
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I dunno, that all seems a little contrived and none of it is even hinted at in game*. I think you have the story right (other than Mengsk knowing Narud is Duran), but very little of it is really presented well.
*other than Tychus' betrayal and his motivations for that. I get that much of his character, I just don't get how he's been a good mole for Mengsk.
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On August 04 2010 05:10 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +Ahem, MY forces would have only survived minutes without the artifact?
CLEARLY you don't know how I command my army and how little I lost in that battle. =P Notice how the invasion only was failing when I WASN'T in control of the army. Once the missions started it was all a cake walk. Game mechanics aren't canon, friend. If they were, then Kerrigan spent the entire battle against the Protoss on New Gettysburg huddled in the middle of your base while a 200/200 army of Battlecruisers wiped out everything for her. Show nested quote +If Tychus is working for Mengsk (Sr.) then what's the deal with that? Why would he let Tychus help broadcast the Adjuct's recording or even steal the Odin? Presumably he doesn't know about the artifacts or planned invasion of char as he makes no attempt to secure the artifacts and he yells at his son for his actions when he learns about it, so it makes no sense to be waiting for Tychus to be near Kerrigan. If Mengsk had any inclination of any of that sort of stuff was going on it wasn't communicated. Rather than having his son work with Raynor he could have used Tychus' information to grab the artifacts himself and cut Raynor out.
What's Kerrigan's motivation? Why is she seeking the artifacts if she's all emo and uncaring about the world? Why would she seek all of them at once instead of focusing on trying to find one of them? She seems to know where the one is in Smash & Grab (or whatever the mission is where you race her to the artifact), so why not focus all her energy on that one piece.
What's the deal with Hanson's choice? If you side with her the planet is all fine; against her and it's a zerg hive. Presumably your choice doesn't affect the spread of the zerg virus. Even if you save the planet it should be under heavy infection which would run counter to the idea of leaving her on the planet later on (as it's basically a zerg hive).
Tychus's heart is clearly with the Raiders, rather than with Mengsk. The main reason he's obeying Mengsk at all is because there's a thing in his suit that will kill him if he doesn't, and because he wants to go free. Other than that, though, he's perfectly happy to help out Raynor and kill the Dominion...which imprisoned him and then strapped a bomb to his chest. Mengsk isn't monitoring him every second, not while he's in the middle of the Raiders. He doesn't know about what Tychus is up to unless Tychus reports to him...but he can still kill him anytime. And Mengsk has almost definitely been in contact with Duran and the Moebius Foundation, and so knows about the artifacts and their purpose; and he almost definitely knows about Valerian's plans as well. Mengsk probably gifted Tychus to Valerian, rather than Raynor directly, to use to find the artifacts and help activate them. Valerian wants Tychus to go to Raynor because he's the only person who's been in the presence of the QoBs and not died, and he thinks they can use that when the time comes, and because with the Zerg invasion going on and all the Dominion forces sequestered in the Core he needs someone to go after the artifacts for him. Mengsk probably wasn't expecting Valerian to take the fleet suddenly and make a frontal assault on Char...he probably had something else (smarter) planned, like attacking the QoBs when she was off-world. But in any event, Mengsk knew that Valerian was planning to save the QoBs rather than killing her, so Tychus would be in position when that happened to make sure Kerrigan was dealt with. Kerrigan knows that Narud is Duran, and she knows that the artifact is a threat to her; that's all the reasons she needs to go after it and destroy or capture it. She doesn't want to be de-infested or killed. Hanson may have developed some kind of cure for the infestation...it's not spelled out, though, which is disappointing. But in any event, the infested colonists can still be sequestered and killed, if necessary.
Yep agree with everything you said,but in my mind,Kerrigans desperation of her inevitable doom,as seem in the Zeratul mission happens in the past,where she does not know of the existence of the artifacts......shes spent 4 years in a hive cluster on Char,having these visions of a galaxy on fire...of the inevitable destruction of everything.....4 years....that could have convinced her it was inevitable....
However when she learned of the Artifact(in the Dark Templar saga),maybe they give here hope that she can fight her fate.....so she sends her swarms to scour the galaxy for them......
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Calgary25980 Posts
I really hate the SC universe in general. Raynor is a drunk cruising around in some Battle Cruiser with randoms and then takes over Char? The entire SC/BW/SC2 story involving Raynor is actually pretty dumb to me. I guess I'm not very imaginative but I can't believe anything of the Terran storyline. The Protoss / Zerg storylines were always way better to me.
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I'm hoping the entirety of the story for WoL makes more sense in the context of the next two expansions. However, I couldn't shake the feeling that the entire campaign was a giant deus ex machina.
Somehow Moebius and Valerian know that this mysterious artifact will burn away the Zerg, but somehow cures Zerg infestation instead of incinerating the infected person. The reason behind the power of this mysterious artifact is never really explained. Also never explained is why the Protoss didn't know this? A race, ravaged by the Zerg, somehow doesn't realize that these artifacts, when combined, constitute an ultimate weapon against the Zerg and a way to cripple their leader? If even the Protoss who own these artifacts don't know the power of them, how did Valerian learn of their power?
Lastly, Tychus. Oh, Tychus. What was his real job? You'd like to think that his job was to kill Raynor. But, his stated "purpose" was to kill Kerrigan in exchange for his freedom. Somehow he's communicating directly with Mengsk. How does Mengsk know that they're going to end up on Char in the first place? Certainly he seems surprised when Valerian talks to him. Raynor was after Mengsk, not Kerrigan. Raynor wanted Kerrigan dead too, so why would Tychus' secret mission be to assassinate Kerrigan? It doesn't make sense. The only point in the story after which it makes sense is after the Protoss prophecy mission. What does Mengsk fear if Kerrigan lives or dies? Why not have Tychus kill Raynor instead of Kerrigan? Why not kill both?
Those were the only real issues I had with the story, and even these weren't major. I was able to turn my brain off and enjoy it for the brainless action fluff that it is. I enjoyed the game very much and the campaign was brilliant. I do feel like Metzen just isn't as great a writer as I once thought he was. He's great and a really really cool guy, but these stories just aren't internally consistent.
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On August 04 2010 05:41 Chill wrote:
I really hate the SC universe in general. Raynor is a drunk cruising around in some Battle Cruiser with randoms and then takes over Char? The entire SC/BW/SC2 story involving Raynor is actually pretty dumb to me. I guess I'm not very imaginative but I can't believe anything of the Terran storyline. The Protoss / Zerg storylines were always way better to me.
all you have to do is BELIEVE in yourself and ANYTHING is possible!
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Well the UED tech is easily explained, they pobably left Earth as soon as the prison transports went off the radar. So really there might have only been a few years differencein their relative starting times.
However through whatever anamoly messed up the prison ships they got there a lot faster (relativity is a crazy thing). The UED took the normal route without incident and thus took much longer.
Also, the UED doesn't represent Earth strength at all, they are the futuristic version of the sherrif with his bloodhounds looking for escape convicts.
As for the terran being able to face the protoss its probably because the protoss have seriously regressed in their war ability. Kind of like if Georgre Foreman stepped into the ring against the current champion its just been too long and he has kept in shape.
You can see this from the way their tech is in SC2 all their "new" tech is really ancient stuff they are finding back or from their more warlike dark templar bros.
Also tech advantage isn't everything in war, terrans are much more decietful and cunning then both the protoss and the zerg (minus QoB who was a terran)
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On August 04 2010 02:04 Dezzimal wrote:High heels, the pinnacle of Zerg evolution.
Cuz S&M is nice.
I object to there being real gods in the game shit xal naga plz.
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
The whole point is that raynor and the dominion could not stop her without the artifact. The xel'naga were the gods, and because they had a xel'naga artifact and presumed to be weapon they were able to stop the queen of blades.
Obviosly, the zerg is not dead, and most likely kerrigans relationsip with the zerg is not either.
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On August 04 2010 02:41 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 01:06 Noev wrote:
Your forgetting the most powerful fact of them all one that makes the artifact look like a toy... the power of being the main character(s). Everyone know this one ability can allow you to succeed in a situation where anyone/anything else would fail, never over estimate that trait. This only works if you're not a George R. R. Martin Character
Yes but it's worth it because you get to have illicit relations with your sister. Uhm, not that I want to. >_>
Shit, abandon thread!
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Tychus claims that the Moebius foundation is the one he owes the debt to and is making money for right? ( hence the death suit )
How come when Raynor comes face to face with Valerian he just doesn't make him remove it?
Seems pretty dumb.
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On August 04 2010 11:25 Luckbox wrote:
Tychus claims that the Moebius foundation is the one he owes the debt to and is making money for right? ( hence the death suit )
How come when Raynor comes face to face with Valerian he just doesn't make him remove it?
Seems pretty dumb.
+ Show Spoiler +It wasn't Valerian that put him in the suit. It was Mengsk. But I agree, it's dumb that Horner and Raynor are aware of the death suit but don't confront him or do anything about it until it's "too late." However, we never see Tychus get shot.
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On August 04 2010 05:41 Chill wrote:
I guess I'm not very imaginative but I can't believe anything of the Terran storyline. The Protoss / Zerg storylines were always way better to me.
As a zerg player I agree, the Zerg campaign is the only one that matters.
Of course, I just love kerrigan. Shes basically why I played zerg in the first place. Oh and hydras <3 <3 hydras. I'm excited for heart of the swarm, my money is on kerrigan still involved with the zerg ^^
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
you need to read up more on your lore. they've already said that the technology is very similar between the two, because much of the technology was scrapped from the 3 super carriers. and kerrigan would have overrun the dominion forces, but they had help from a xel naga artifact.
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On August 04 2010 11:26 Gedrah wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It wasn't Valerian that put him in the suit. It was Mengsk. But I agree, it's dumb that Horner and Raynor are aware of the death suit but don't confront him or do anything about it until it's "too late." However, we never see Tychus get shot.
I'm aware of that - but Valerian reveals himself to be the leader of the foundation - my point is Raynor would be like "hey remove the suit?" when they meet.
We know it's Mengsk but Raynor should think it's Valerian.
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On August 04 2010 11:26 Gedrah wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 11:25 Luckbox wrote:
Tychus claims that the Moebius foundation is the one he owes the debt to and is making money for right? ( hence the death suit )
How come when Raynor comes face to face with Valerian he just doesn't make him remove it?
Seems pretty dumb. + Show Spoiler +It wasn't Valerian that put him in the suit. It was Mengsk. But I agree, it's dumb that Horner and Raynor are aware of the death suit but don't confront him or do anything about it until it's "too late." However, we never see Tychus get shot.
+ Show Spoiler +It says when the campaign has been completed, as some sort of epilogue under the single player tab, that Tychus is dead among other things.
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
Um, no? They make a point of the Terran forces being vastly outnumbered and getting run over in Char. You only win out in the end due to plot reasons- but as far as army power is concerned, the Zerg forces are waaaaaaay stronger.
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cliffhanger sequel potential to exploit the series more > A plot without holes.
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
-snip-
You can't just claim that humans will always evolve 'exponentially' (a bad term to use in this case by the way) - ever heard of the Dark Ages? That period in our own real life history was a time when art, culture and science were all put on the back-burner - and until the Renaissance nothing of value was done.
I think you could theorise that if you really wanted to go knee-deep into lore you can certainly weave something like this into the "Earth" history. To be quite honest, it is entirely likely - given that from a scientific point of view war is the one thing that actually spurs on science and creativity. Many many technological advances have come from - or have been based on - war.
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
I went through this guys posts and he's created like 6+ threads dedicated to how shitty sc2 is. ArghUScaredMe quit your whining man.
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there won't be another dark ages... progress will happen now faster and faster. the only way another dark ages could occur would be some massive armageddon and survivors have to make due for a while.
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
To 1, there are an abundance of possible reasons for this. Just look at the 40k universe. Technology doesn't advance because humanity is scared of technology - they think it will corrupt them and is evil if it gets too advanced. Something like that could've gone on. The government could've shut down continued technological advancement. Anything like that could happened.
As for 2, yea, the WoL plot is fairly F'd up.
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What I personally think about Tychus at the end that he's not really dead, just unconcious, I mean, one bullet to the head won't kill such a guy, his skull is too thick ya know. He will feel pretty lonely though in that Zerg hive :p
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On August 04 2010 23:37 Seiniyta wrote:
What I personally think about Tychus at the end that he's not really dead, just unconcious, I mean, one bullet to the head won't kill such a guy, his skull is too thick ya know. He will feel pretty lonely though in that Zerg hive :p
If you read the text on the Single Player section after beating the game it says that Tychus is dead.
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It's not set in stone that Tychus is dead to be honest. There's nothing stopping Blizzard from saying that Tychus was not really dead and it was all a lie in Heart of the Swarm.
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I came up with a most likely retarded scenario.
Raynor and Horner did seem to know about the bomb at some point. What if it was just a plan by raynor and tychus to make it seem like he was dead so mengsk would've activate the suit bomb or whatever it was. The video sent to mengsk would just have been a kind of show put on to prevent mengsk from killing tychus.
End baseless speculation.
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WHY DIDNT MENGSK JUST ACTIVATE THE BOMB WHEN TYCHUS WAS NEXT TO KERRIGAN
NVM Cos it wasn't a bomb it was poison.
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i thought there was some plot holes to do with Tychus before i read this thread.
After i read all the posts, everything makes alot of sense now.
in WoL it portrayed Mengsk as a bubbling idiot, your forgetting though how cunning and ruthless Mengsk was in Broodwar.
It makes perfect sense that Mengsk and his son are working together for a greater purpose. I think that greater purpose has alot to do with Narud (Duran).
The mobieous foundation seemed to be pulling all the strings (a.k.a Duran)
Duran is controlling Mengsk.
THAT"S why they know what the artifect does (Duran is Xel Naga), THAT'S why they know Kerrigan would be human at the end. THAT'S why Kerrigan couldn't find the artifact.
and at the end, i agree with atombombforpeace.
That ending sequence was planned by both of them to make them think that Tychus is dead so they can both fuck Duran in the face at the end.
Everything makes sense now. Backstabbing, betrayal and cunning motherfuckers. That's what Starcraft has always been about and will continue to be.
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On August 05 2010 00:03 kuresuti wrote:
It's not set in stone that Tychus is dead to be honest. There's nothing stopping Blizzard from saying that Tychus was not really dead and it was all a lie in Heart of the Swarm.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it is set in stone. Blizzard would not have mentioned his death or would have rephrased it in some other way.
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On August 04 2010 23:01 Duckvillelol wrote:
You can't just claim that humans will always evolve 'exponentially' (a bad term to use in this case by the way) - ever heard of the Dark Ages? That period in our own real life history was a time when art, culture and science were all put on the back-burner - and until the Renaissance nothing of value was done.
This isn't true. The Middle Ages was one of the highest points of technological and artistic progress of Mankind. All the artistic techniques of Renaissance painters, for example, were developed during the Middle Ages. Dante and Chaucer are definitely part of the Middle Ages. Scholars don't even use the word 'Dark Age' to describe the period because it is so misleading. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages
It would probably be more accurate to describe the Renaissance as a Dark Age. While war was nothing new, the powers of Europe began warring against one another over small differences of religion or for power or for sport. The printing press began to be used massively for propaganda and for sophistry. Even Shakespeare, who can be argued to be more Middle Age thinking than Renaissance, constantly mocked the events of his day with relentlessly making fun of the 'Alexander the Great' ideal and the monarchies of the time (and the friar was somehow always the unsung hero in the plays).
I think you could theorise that if you really wanted to go knee-deep into lore you can certainly weave something like this into the "Earth" history. To be quite honest, it is entirely likely - given that from a scientific point of view war is the one thing that actually spurs on science and creativity. Many many technological advances have come from - or have been based on - war.
It is the opposite. Technological progress comes from peace. Mankind's history is constant tribal warfare, and that got technology to go nowhere. All the technology you use in a single day was the fruit of peace, not war. Refrigerators, electricity, microwaves, automobiles, advanced agriculture, mass production, and so on are all from the result of peace.
But, of course, this is a video game so it is best not to think too heavily about these matters.
The biggest problem in the Starcraft universe is this stupid artifact. Why was it in pieces scattered out? How does it have the power that it does? People say that WoL is a re-enactment of the first Starcraft campaign. But it is more like a re-enactment of the Brood War's Protoss campaign. Zeratul and Artanis had to find 'crystals' to power the Xel-Naga Temple which, somehow, made a powerful nova that wiped out all the Zerg on Shakuras. Blizzard has yet to explain why Xel-Naga junk creates Zerg nukes.
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the only thing that bothered me is how jim raynor and tychus got aboard the one ship with the one dude and it just didnt really transition well.
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Blizzard is just DT-rushing all of us.
There's one thing though that no one has pointed out, and that involves the secret mission which ties in to the final Zeratul mission with the Hybrids. Judging by the timeline involved, if you beat all of the Zeratul missions when you first get access to it the above statement I just posted makes no sense. That would mean that besides that planet there were others (which was speculated by Raynor mind you). You would think that one of the other planets doing such experiments were to have an issue there would have been more of a lockdown. I think that the secret mission and the final mission of Zeratul will have a lot of lasting impact in HotS.
Also to the point of the final cinematic, Tychus isn't dead. There's a lot of holes that don't get filled to make stories later on have more lasting value to them. There was a lot of time that Valerian would have had to modify the suit very easily. It would have been reported back that he was dead while Raynor gets his moment in the sunset? with Kerrigan.
Let's jump to another subject here where I believe Humga has it perfectly.
On August 05 2010 00:38 Humga wrote:
It makes perfect sense that Mengsk and his son are working together for a greater purpose. I think that greater purpose has alot to do with Narud (Duran).
The mobieous foundation seemed to be pulling all the strings (a.k.a Duran)
Duran is controlling Mengsk.
THAT"S why they know what the artifect does (Duran is Xel Naga), THAT'S why they know Kerrigan would be human at the end. THAT'S why Kerrigan couldn't find the artifact.
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That right there explains half of the conversation in the first two pages of this. Personally I think that the next game will continue off with you fighting off the remaining Terran on Char, something like the Leviathan will appear to take command (by the way, that was a scary hero for the zerg) and the advancement will continue to go after either Kerrigan again (we all know it'll happen) or some unseen uberghost or possibly Tosh.
One last thought, from reading most of the StarCraft books this seems to be pretty on par with what I expected the story line to be. A little bit over predictable at points with a lot of fanfare and a heroic moment. One thing I wish for is a book to fill in a lot of the gaps from this first game of three.
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On August 05 2010 06:47 Macavity wrote:
Blizzard has yet to explain why Xel-Naga junk creates Zerg nukes.
I disagree. While they haven't stated it directly, they have heavily hinted at it, especially in the Zeratul missions. It's made pretty obvious that the only way to defeat the Xel-Naga and prevent the destruction of the entire galaxy (universe?) is by using the might of the Swarm/Kerrigan. The Xel-Naga obviously know this. Unfortunately they still need the Zerg DNA to fuse with Protoss to create the next generation of Xel-Naga. So instead of just destroying the Zerg outright, which they probably have the power to do, they create these Artifacts that can cleanse/destroy nearby Zerg so when they finally come in to take over they will be able to deal with the Swarm.
At least that's what I have surmised from the campaign/books/lore. I'm sure I'm not exactly right but it feels like a reasonable explanation
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10387 Posts
Arcturus is being mind controlled by the Xel'Naga, or he was killed and some look-alike puppet was put in his place. Explains all his retarded actions!!
The Battlecruiser boarding scene was pretty bad, I'm not sure what was going through the storywriter's mind when he wrote that in.
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On August 04 2010 00:24 Ndugu wrote:
As for 1, there are a thousand reasons Terran technological advancement could have slowed. Perhaps the type of technology used by Terrans peaked long ago, but they don't have the psionic/magic-energy powers of the Protoss to progress in a new direction.
As for 2, I think its pretty clear that almost all the Terran forces were wiped out.
An unimaginably powerful Xel'naga artifact was being used to periodically wipe out every single Zerg in a large radius.
yeah but they landed derectly on char THE home planet of the zerg where they live and spawn so youd think that for every 1 marine that lands on the planet their is 100 lings 20 hydras 10 roachs...
with the spore cannons it would be impossible to land units so you have to use drop pods but they scatter everywhere and should instantly be overwhelmed but in the game they give you time to get their, yeah the plot has problemes but hey its sc LOVE IT
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im thinking that in HotS kerrigan will still have control over zerg with her PSI capabilitys and that maybe shes not fully human like her hair was still zergy and not human she still very pale
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On August 05 2010 12:05 perfectflaw72 wrote:
im thinking that in HotS kerrigan will still have control over zerg with her PSI capabilitys and that maybe shes not fully human like her hair was still zergy and not human she still very pale
well it was like...5 minutes after she went from the almighty queen of blades to just kerrigan again, she probably needed a good shower and some make-up.
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On August 05 2010 12:02 perfectflaw72 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 00:24 Ndugu wrote:
As for 1, there are a thousand reasons Terran technological advancement could have slowed. Perhaps the type of technology used by Terrans peaked long ago, but they don't have the psionic/magic-energy powers of the Protoss to progress in a new direction.
As for 2, I think its pretty clear that almost all the Terran forces were wiped out.
An unimaginably powerful Xel'naga artifact was being used to periodically wipe out every single Zerg in a large radius. yeah but they landed derectly on char THE home planet of the zerg where they live and spawn so youd think that for every 1 marine that lands on the planet their is 100 lings 20 hydras 10 roachs... with the spore cannons it would be impossible to land units so you have to use drop pods but they scatter everywhere and should instantly be overwhelmed but in the game they give you time to get their, yeah the plot has problemes but hey its sc LOVE IT
Did you even play the game? Did you watch the videos of the Dominion landing on Char? They were getting fucked up beyond belief.
Anyone who bitches about the sc2 story (and there are plenty) should read through this thread. It pretty much explains why all your complains are ignorant or stupid.
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I have a few things to say about this
1. Kerrigan still has some zerg strands in her. How else can she survive on char? It's a hell hole that even marines are having trouble coping with(not even counting the zerg).
2. The invasion of Char worked because of many factors, like how the fleet engaged the zerg everywhere. Kerrigan had to manage all of it at once, and she may or may not be thinking about the prophecy. The fleet got wrecked terribly, because the zerg do have the number and the only reason Raynor made it through was he got a small task force out of what he had then proceeded to strike a critical blow to a "safe" section of the hive(and this is all going on where 90% of the zerg are far away from Char, and Kerrrigan has been throwing the zerg against eachother to build new species). Even with all this they barely manage to set off the artifcat before the zerg overwhelmed them.
3. The Xel naga are dead. The zerg killed them outright.(with poisonous gasses and traces of lead /referrence). The dark voice is a creature or thing of great power that may be a fallen Xel'Naga but it also installed the "destroy everything" directive into the zerg's dna. Essentially it controls duran who controls mengsk who will unleash the hybrids which will anihilate all the Terran before working on the protoss(if kerrigan dies...if she lives the future will be changed, but how isn't clear)
4. Kerrigan's zerg "hair" would be dead skin cells or it's like the protoss "hair" and increases her psi capabiltiy. She(and anyone else) can control the zerg with intense psi energy and since Kerrigan is the best ghosts they ever made...she has plenty of psi to spare.
5. Zeratul talks of the uncertainty he feels about the reason for the Xel'naga's return. He actually has it 100% right but doesn't realize it, because the Xel'Naga save the species that have purity of form(protoss) and purity of essence(zerg) by combining them with the crystals that hold immense power. It destroys the species but creates new Xel'Naga and saves them from death. The other thing it could mean is that their is at least one Xel'naga that wants to destroy the protoss and everyone else(the fallen one/dark voice)
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On August 05 2010 12:22 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 12:02 perfectflaw72 wrote:On August 04 2010 00:24 Ndugu wrote:
As for 1, there are a thousand reasons Terran technological advancement could have slowed. Perhaps the type of technology used by Terrans peaked long ago, but they don't have the psionic/magic-energy powers of the Protoss to progress in a new direction.
As for 2, I think its pretty clear that almost all the Terran forces were wiped out.
An unimaginably powerful Xel'naga artifact was being used to periodically wipe out every single Zerg in a large radius. yeah but they landed derectly on char THE home planet of the zerg where they live and spawn so youd think that for every 1 marine that lands on the planet their is 100 lings 20 hydras 10 roachs... with the spore cannons it would be impossible to land units so you have to use drop pods but they scatter everywhere and should instantly be overwhelmed but in the game they give you time to get their, yeah the plot has problemes but hey its sc LOVE IT Did you even play the game? Did you watch the videos of the Dominion landing on Char? They were getting fucked up beyond belief. Anyone who bitches about the sc2 story (and there are plenty) should read through this thread. It pretty much explains why all your complains are ignorant or stupid.
No, it doesn't. It's just a bunch of B.S. speculation to try to explain away plot holes. Almost nothing in this thread has been even remotely hinted at by Blizzard.
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Biggest plotholes;
The Zerg. They went from an unknowable, alien entity to an enslaved race. Except that nothing in any lore hinted at the Overmind being a slave.
The prophecy. Whenever you run out of real ideas, throw in a crap prophecy to move the story. And of course, that prophecy has to be 90-100% true, with just enough wiggle room for free-will.
Tassadar's sacrifice going from being ultimate and final to him coming back as a ghost and advising the Protoss. Why can't anyone's sacrifice truly be final? It's such a dumb trope.
The Hyperion boarding the Dominion flagship when there's a fleet guarding it. The crew should have mutinied against Raynor right there because that is a suicidal maneuver. The Hyperion will be a sitting duck while Raynor and Tychus play cowboy. The only reason nothing happened was because Raynor has plot armor. Also, Valerian gets the award for being the dumbest shit ever. Instead of hailing Raynor as soon as he warps in, he plays this ridiculous game in which a thousand things can go wrong and end his entire gambit.
Mengsk going from the person who singlehandedly built an empire from the ashes of the Confederacy to being borderline retarded.
Xel'Naga technology doing exactly what you need it to do with zero understanding. It's like putting together a puzzle of a nuclear bomb then discovering you can actually nuke cities. Just dumb, the entire deus ex machina of the Xel'Naga artifacts is just sloppy story telling.
The Tal'Darim. Where the hell did they come from and why do they manage to have every single piece of the Xel'Naga artifact? How did they find it in the first place?
Kerrigan going from being super-cunning and intelligent to becoming a sledgehammer. Also, how did she find out about the location of the prophecy? She just happens to conveniently show up where Zeratul is? Dumb. She didn't even follow Zeratul, she was there before he was.
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On August 05 2010 12:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 12:22 On_Slaught wrote:On August 05 2010 12:02 perfectflaw72 wrote:On August 04 2010 00:24 Ndugu wrote:
As for 1, there are a thousand reasons Terran technological advancement could have slowed. Perhaps the type of technology used by Terrans peaked long ago, but they don't have the psionic/magic-energy powers of the Protoss to progress in a new direction.
As for 2, I think its pretty clear that almost all the Terran forces were wiped out.
An unimaginably powerful Xel'naga artifact was being used to periodically wipe out every single Zerg in a large radius. yeah but they landed derectly on char THE home planet of the zerg where they live and spawn so youd think that for every 1 marine that lands on the planet their is 100 lings 20 hydras 10 roachs... with the spore cannons it would be impossible to land units so you have to use drop pods but they scatter everywhere and should instantly be overwhelmed but in the game they give you time to get their, yeah the plot has problemes but hey its sc LOVE IT Did you even play the game? Did you watch the videos of the Dominion landing on Char? They were getting fucked up beyond belief. Anyone who bitches about the sc2 story (and there are plenty) should read through this thread. It pretty much explains why all your complains are ignorant or stupid. No, it doesn't. It's just a bunch of B.S. speculation to try to explain away plot holes. Almost nothing in this thread has been even remotely hinted at by Blizzard.
What you should take from all this "speculation" is that there is going to be a follow up. The point is that there are no plot holes because the plot isn't done. What has been pointed out is that it is EASY to explain all of these things with very reasonable explanations (which some people have tried to give) in the next game. Everyone selling the story before we even really know what the story is are foolish.
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On August 05 2010 13:03 0mar wrote:
Biggest plotholes;
The Zerg. They went from an unknowable, alien entity to an enslaved race. Except that nothing in any lore hinted at the Overmind being a slave.
The prophecy. Whenever you run out of real ideas, throw in a crap prophecy to move the story. And of course, that prophecy has to be 90-100% true, with just enough wiggle room for free-will.
Tassadar's sacrifice going from being ultimate and final to him coming back as a ghost and advising the Protoss. Why can't anyone's sacrifice truly be final? It's such a dumb trope.
The Hyperion boarding the Dominion flagship when there's a fleet guarding it. The crew should have mutinied against Raynor right there because that is a suicidal maneuver. The Hyperion will be a sitting duck while Raynor and Tychus play cowboy. The only reason nothing happened was because Raynor has plot armor. Also, Valerian gets the award for being the dumbest shit ever. Instead of hailing Raynor as soon as he warps in, he plays this ridiculous game in which a thousand things can go wrong and end his entire gambit.
Mengsk going from the person who singlehandedly built an empire from the ashes of the Confederacy to being borderline retarded.
Xel'Naga technology doing exactly what you need it to do with zero understanding. It's like putting together a puzzle of a nuclear bomb then discovering you can actually nuke cities. Just dumb, the entire deus ex machina of the Xel'Naga artifacts is just sloppy story telling.
The Tal'Darim. Where the hell did they come from and why do they manage to have every single piece of the Xel'Naga artifact? How did they find it in the first place?
Kerrigan going from being super-cunning and intelligent to becoming a sledgehammer. Also, how did she find out about the location of the prophecy? She just happens to conveniently show up where Zeratul is? Dumb. She didn't even follow Zeratul, she was there before he was.
Wow this is a terrible post.
1. What's wrong with this? It's like you answered your own question. We know very little about them. We found out something. So what? Zeratul has hinted at this multiple times anyway.
2. Again what's wrong with this? The prophecy is just what they call it. How about we call it a "warning" since that's all it was. This is how the SC universe works. Zeratul found some left over stones that lay out what the process is. They try to get ready to stop it before it comes. Sweet.
3. Ya because dragoons don't exist right? There is a clear ethereal elemenet to the protoss and tassadar, who had mastered both dark and light, clearly has access to this. He broke apart his physical body to destroy the overmind so it's not a stretch that his "being" would survive.
4. Why it worked is pretty obvious... because Valerian allowed it. Why would he want the help of Raynor if he couldn't even kill a couple of marines? Plus, the whole "so many things could of gone wrong" applies to literally almost every single movie, anime or show ever made. Doesn't even hold weight anymore.
5. Clearly there is more to Mengsk than meets the eye. If it turns out there isn't then i'll join you in "this is dumb." Can't say that for a few years tho. Even then, this isn't even a plot hole.
6. Again, they obviously had understanding. The moebius foundation has been working on this stuff for a while and it's all but certain that Duran is leading this research. Assuming it is, he obviously has the knowledge necessary. Plus, it seems that the artifact was built for this exact reason so why wouldn't it do what it did?
7. Not a plot hole. They could of been watching over them for centuries for all we know. They are fanatics who spent a lot of time looking for them. They eventually found them. What's wrong with that?
8. Few things on this. First, you could just say that Kerrigan was only so cunning because of Duran and that without him she lost her best strategist. Second, we don't know if there is some greater plan here. If she knew what the artifact did, and it turns out it makes her stronger by balancing her human/zerg powers, then it would make sense to either steal it for herself and use it as you see fit/study it etc. It seems clear to me that there is more to this since her attack on the Dominion comes off as random. I find it very unlikely that it would end up being nothing more than random fighting for hte hell of it. Last, who cares how she got there. Maybe she found it the same way Zeratul did. She does have billions of zerg looking for it around the galaxy... Oh and another thing. She clearly had a connection with the mind of the Overmind who had clear knowledge of the prophecy. That enough could tell her what she needed to know and where things were.
Basically, no.
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On August 05 2010 13:48 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 12:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 05 2010 12:22 On_Slaught wrote:On August 05 2010 12:02 perfectflaw72 wrote:On August 04 2010 00:24 Ndugu wrote:
As for 1, there are a thousand reasons Terran technological advancement could have slowed. Perhaps the type of technology used by Terrans peaked long ago, but they don't have the psionic/magic-energy powers of the Protoss to progress in a new direction.
As for 2, I think its pretty clear that almost all the Terran forces were wiped out.
An unimaginably powerful Xel'naga artifact was being used to periodically wipe out every single Zerg in a large radius. yeah but they landed derectly on char THE home planet of the zerg where they live and spawn so youd think that for every 1 marine that lands on the planet their is 100 lings 20 hydras 10 roachs... with the spore cannons it would be impossible to land units so you have to use drop pods but they scatter everywhere and should instantly be overwhelmed but in the game they give you time to get their, yeah the plot has problemes but hey its sc LOVE IT Did you even play the game? Did you watch the videos of the Dominion landing on Char? They were getting fucked up beyond belief. Anyone who bitches about the sc2 story (and there are plenty) should read through this thread. It pretty much explains why all your complains are ignorant or stupid. No, it doesn't. It's just a bunch of B.S. speculation to try to explain away plot holes. Almost nothing in this thread has been even remotely hinted at by Blizzard. What you should take from all this "speculation" is that there is going to be a follow up. The point is that there are no plot holes because the plot isn't done. What has been pointed out is that it is EASY to explain all of these things with very reasonable explanations (which some people have tried to give) in the next game. Everyone selling the story before we even really know what the story is are foolish.
There's a difference between an open plot and a plot with holes in it. You seem to have confused the two.
1. What's wrong with this? It's like you answered your own question. We know very little about them. We found out something. So what? Zeratul has hinted at this multiple times anyway.
2. Again what's wrong with this? The prophecy is just what they call it. How about we call it a "warning" since that's all it was. This is how the SC universe works. Zeratul found some left over stones that lay out what the process is. They try to get ready to stop it before it comes. Sweet.
3. Ya because dragoons don't exist right? There is a clear ethereal elemenet to the protoss and tassadar, who had mastered both dark and light, clearly has access to this. He broke apart his physical body to destroy the overmind so it's not a stretch that his "being" would survive.
The problem with these first three isn't that they happened, it's that it's terrible story telling because it was poorly presented and it has been done plenty of times and even in Blizzard's own work (Warcraft).
4. Why it worked is pretty obvious... because Valerian allowed it. Why would he want the help of Raynor if he couldn't even kill a couple of marines? Plus, the whole "so many things could of gone wrong" applies to literally almost every single movie, anime or show ever made. Doesn't even hold weight anymore.
What's stupid is that Raynor actually thought of doing this. He is supposed to be an intelligent person (in terms of strategy and tactics) yet any grandma would know that this is suicide.
5. Clearly there is more to Mengsk than meets the eye. If it turns out there isn't then i'll join you in "this is dumb." Can't say that for a few years tho. Even then, this isn't even a plot hole.
No, there is nothing clear. There was absolutely nothing about Mengsk shown to us through WoL other than the fact that he's an idiot now.
6. Again, they obviously had understanding. The moebius foundation has been working on this stuff for a while and it's all but certain that Duran is leading this research. Assuming it is, he obviously has the knowledge necessary. Plus, it seems that the artifact was built for this exact reason so why wouldn't it do what it did?
So how does Duran just know this stuff? Furthermore, how does no one get suspicious? Not only that, why would Duran want to wipe out so many Zerg and cure Kerrigan? Again, the main problem is that so many things are left so unbelievably wide open with not even a hint of what's going on.
Oh, and the other problem is this whole idea of the artifact. Super weapons tend to just be lazy story telling (and they are in this situation). There are few situations where super weapons should be used and they need to be used correctly or it just cheapens the story.
7. Not a plot hole. They could of been watching over them for centuries for all we know. They are fanatics who spent a lot of time looking for them. They eventually found them. What's wrong with that?
Not a plot hole, but a complete failure in story telling. There is no depth to these characters.
8. Few things on this. First, you could just say that Kerrigan was only so cunning because of Duran and that without him she lost her best strategist. Second, we don't know if there is some greater plan here. If she knew what the artifact did, and it turns out it makes her stronger by balancing her human/zerg powers, then it would make sense to either steal it for herself and use it as you see fit/study it etc. It seems clear to me that there is more to this since her attack on the Dominion comes off as random. I find it very unlikely that it would end up being nothing more than random fighting for hte hell of it. Last, who cares how she got there. Maybe she found it the same way Zeratul did. She does have billions of zerg looking for it around the galaxy... Oh and another thing. She clearly had a connection with the mind of the Overmind who had clear knowledge of the prophecy. That enough could tell her what she needed to know and where things were.
You only say the bold part in a blind attempt to justify this terrible story. There was no real hint of this going on in BW. And like I've said so many times, all of these theories are great, but the problem is that Blizzard hasn't hinted at any of this. All they showed us was an absolutely pathetic character that was more one-dimensional than Sauron.
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On August 05 2010 13:03 0mar wrote:
Biggest plotholes;
The Zerg. They went from an unknowable, alien entity to an enslaved race. Except that nothing in any lore hinted at the Overmind being a slave.
The prophecy. Whenever you run out of real ideas, throw in a crap prophecy to move the story. And of course, that prophecy has to be 90-100% true, with just enough wiggle room for free-will.
Tassadar's sacrifice going from being ultimate and final to him coming back as a ghost and advising the Protoss. Why can't anyone's sacrifice truly be final? It's such a dumb trope.
The Hyperion boarding the Dominion flagship when there's a fleet guarding it. The crew should have mutinied against Raynor right there because that is a suicidal maneuver. The Hyperion will be a sitting duck while Raynor and Tychus play cowboy. The only reason nothing happened was because Raynor has plot armor. Also, Valerian gets the award for being the dumbest shit ever. Instead of hailing Raynor as soon as he warps in, he plays this ridiculous game in which a thousand things can go wrong and end his entire gambit.
Mengsk going from the person who singlehandedly built an empire from the ashes of the Confederacy to being borderline retarded.
Xel'Naga technology doing exactly what you need it to do with zero understanding. It's like putting together a puzzle of a nuclear bomb then discovering you can actually nuke cities. Just dumb, the entire deus ex machina of the Xel'Naga artifacts is just sloppy story telling.
The Tal'Darim. Where the hell did they come from and why do they manage to have every single piece of the Xel'Naga artifact? How did they find it in the first place?
Kerrigan going from being super-cunning and intelligent to becoming a sledgehammer. Also, how did she find out about the location of the prophecy? She just happens to conveniently show up where Zeratul is? Dumb. She didn't even follow Zeratul, she was there before he was.
I agree 100% on all accounts. The Mengsk being a blubbering idiot really made my blood boil, he just wasn't like that at all in broodwar. Basically they took these clever, brilliantly crafted characters and simplified them past the point of just being archetypes, they're just simpleton stereotypes now. I enjoyed playing the campaign, but the story itself just struck me as being bad. Not only does it not really cohere with what happened in broodwar, but it just doesn't add much to the story, and just isn't particularly interesting. 23 missions for you to grab 5 artifacts, go to char, and activate the finished artifact, that's it. The whole Zeratul prophecy shit is practically irrelevant, because it has no basis in this campaign's story at all. The end of the game mentions the prophecy zero times, you could've skipped those missions and you wouldn't have lost anything. They just feel out of place to me. The secret mission: oh noes the terrans are making hybrids! Well, the bonus mission in broodwar was "oh noes someone is making hybrids!". Never saw that coming.
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
Her zerg army was never defeated, Raynor's forces+Domion simply held long enough for the crystal to activate.
my plotholes are
1. Why was Tychus against Raynor's invasion of Char (even got into a fight with him in the bar) when he needs to kill Kerrigan?
2. Why would Arcturus assign him such an impossible mission?
3. And why didn't Megnsk order Tychus to kill Raynor for good?
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Arcturus could have killed Raynor any time.
He had a Dominion while Raynor had 1 broken down Battlecruiser. I remember Raynor saying something about Arcturus downplaying Raynor instead of killing him.
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On August 05 2010 15:28 biarecare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group? Her zerg army was never defeated, Raynor's forces+Domion simply held long enough for the crystal to activate. my plotholes are 1. Why was Tychus against Raynor's invasion of Char (even got into a fight with him in the bar) when he needs to kill Kerrigan? 2. Why would Arcturus assign him such an impossible mission? 3. And why didn't Megnsk order Tychus to kill Raynor for good?
I think Tychus was against char invasion, because he knew how it will end - he has to kill Kerrigan or die. And after killing Kerrigan he would lose Raynor's friendship.
And i dont believe that Arcturus send him to Char. I dont even believe that Tychus was controled by Arcturus. Why would he send him to Raynor with orders to gather artifacts? He had an army that he could use for that.
I think that Valerian was controling Tychus from the begining, he used Raynor to gather artifacts, because if he used army for that, his father might have found out what he is planning. Arcturus might not have an idea what is the purpose of artifact. Valerian and Duran would like to kill Kerrigan, but they know that brute force won't work here. So they use the artifact to make Kerrigan human so she can be killed. I think they found a way to control zerg, but they need Kerrigan dead.
Valerian is the new bad guy for me. He said that he would like to be better than his father, but he has no problem with Raynor killing his guards. Good leader would not allow that.
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On August 04 2010 01:15 Itsarabbit wrote:
How tychus Findlay switched loyalty to Mengsk, and basicly destroyed his leadership through the Odin, then tries to kill kerrigan?!
My speculation is Tychus' mission was to kill Kerrigan from the very beginning (Tosh says Tychus needs to do what he doesn't want). However, I think Tychus was initially working for Mengsk II. That's why his son wanted to ruin Mengsk's reputation through the Odin mission. Later on I'm guessing Tychus switched loyalty to Mengsk for a reason that will be explained in HotS. There you go plot hole filled in. Still, a crap story.
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Considering Tychus: I thought he was more or less just spying for Mengsk and held in control for further use. So he just plays along until the right moment. I don't think Mengsk could have known the very outcome of events, so Tychus being there to kill Kerrigan right from the start sounds unreasonable to me.
This surely opens another question - why Mengsk would let Tychus help bringing him down? There's a load of possibilities for that. Maybe Tychus just didn't tell Mengsk what they were up to with the Odin/the broadcast, and Tychus was in too much of a valueable position for Mengsk to punish him afterwards. Maybe Mengsk allowed it to not make Raynor even more suspicious (he seems to have gotten through the whole affair pretty well in the end).
But I agree: Too many maybes here.
(edit: Maybe this is just another point where the subplots (here: bringing down Mengsk) aren't connected properly to the main storyline (artifcat / Kerrigan). Without Tychus' active role in bringing down Mengsk his whole role would have been a lot more clear. :/)
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On August 05 2010 16:33 Zombo Joe wrote:
Arcturus could have killed Raynor any time.
He had a Dominion while Raynor had 1 broken down Battlecruiser. I remember Raynor saying something about Arcturus downplaying Raynor instead of killing him.
Raynor had the Hyperion, Arcturus capital ship. Its quite a bit bigger and more powerful than a standard battle cruiser. In zero hour you can see it killing dozens of zerglings a second. Your point still stands but I wouldn't call the Hyperion a broken down battlecruiser.
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On August 06 2010 03:39 Holywow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 16:33 Zombo Joe wrote:
Arcturus could have killed Raynor any time.
He had a Dominion while Raynor had 1 broken down Battlecruiser. I remember Raynor saying something about Arcturus downplaying Raynor instead of killing him. Raynor had the Hyperion, Arcturus capital ship. Its quite a bit bigger and more powerful than a standard battle cruiser. In zero hour you can see it killing dozens of zerglings a second. Your point still stands but I wouldn't call the Hyperion a broken down battlecruiser.
But would it say... beat 6 battlecruisers? What about 20 battlecruisers? What about half of the Dominion fleet? (which is somehow >9000)
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Read the BW manual. The UED had spies on the Korpal sector the whole time. They were observing their technological growth, and that's why they had similar tech. Apparently those criminals and dissents were WAY better scientists than what Earth had to offer.
What bother's me most is, why are there giant blow minerals and giant "vespene" volcanoes growing out of every planet except Earth?
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On August 05 2010 00:38 Humga wrote:
(Duran is Xel Naga),
+ Show Spoiler + Duran is NOT Xel'naga, although that is what they want you to think . . . at fist. The Xel'naga are peaceful. The evil force is known as the "Void" or the "The Dark Void". Don't worry, only the three people who suffered through the SC "novels" would know that.
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Havent read the whole post but UED werend that different from terrans cuz it said that they only became the UED like 1 year or so before BW and before they were just sitting on earth fighting over power.
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On August 06 2010 04:08 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 03:39 Holywow wrote:On August 05 2010 16:33 Zombo Joe wrote:
Arcturus could have killed Raynor any time.
He had a Dominion while Raynor had 1 broken down Battlecruiser. I remember Raynor saying something about Arcturus downplaying Raynor instead of killing him. Raynor had the Hyperion, Arcturus capital ship. Its quite a bit bigger and more powerful than a standard battle cruiser. In zero hour you can see it killing dozens of zerglings a second. Your point still stands but I wouldn't call the Hyperion a broken down battlecruiser. But would it say... beat 6 battlecruisers? What about 20 battlecruisers? What about half of the Dominion fleet? (which is somehow >9000)
It was exactly like Raynor said in the campaign. If he kills them, he turn Raynor into a martyr, risking the outbreak of a Revolution. So he uses propaganda to downplay Raynor.
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On August 06 2010 07:53 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 04:08 buhhy wrote:On August 06 2010 03:39 Holywow wrote:On August 05 2010 16:33 Zombo Joe wrote:
Arcturus could have killed Raynor any time.
He had a Dominion while Raynor had 1 broken down Battlecruiser. I remember Raynor saying something about Arcturus downplaying Raynor instead of killing him. Raynor had the Hyperion, Arcturus capital ship. Its quite a bit bigger and more powerful than a standard battle cruiser. In zero hour you can see it killing dozens of zerglings a second. Your point still stands but I wouldn't call the Hyperion a broken down battlecruiser. But would it say... beat 6 battlecruisers? What about 20 battlecruisers? What about half of the Dominion fleet? (which is somehow >9000) It was exactly like Raynor said in the campaign. If he kills them, he turn Raynor into a martyr, risking the outbreak of a Revolution. So he uses propaganda to downplay Raynor.
Yhea, but i dont think Valerian should have just let him kill all his guard, when they could have been used on Char. Better to say "do not run, we are your friends" or waving the white flag so they wouldnt just Yamato Canon Valerians battlecruiser (cant remeber the name.)
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The thing about plot that bothers me the most is making zerg race enslaved, the plot seems so WC3-alike now (
And probably in Zerg campaign you will play Kerrigan trying to free Zergs from their mind control, so in last campaign last mission will be just like WC3 - all races united vs Demons/XelNaga.
If it turns out that way it sucks 
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Here's what I think,
Gameplay - awsome
Story - boring characters. nothing interesting with the plot and it leaves to much untold(I know its suppose to be a trilogy, but I think wings of liberty should had been a full game on its own without relying to much on the other two games).
The ending is supposed to be all emotional but honestly.. I felt nothing. kerrigan surviving the artifact wave thingy is just weird, becouse all zerg burns up while she does not(even though she seems more zerg then human). It's like the artifact was made just for her and that's just ridiculous. Tychus getting killed had no effect on me either.
The ending is supposed to leave you saying: wow, can't wait til next canpaign! but instead I got left wondering: what the... thats it?
It's taken 10-11 years to develope the game, right? and they start off the story like this? that's just bad, realy realy bad.
I've been hoping for this "epic" game blizzard have been talking about, but right now it feels nothing near epic. If only the story was just as awsome as the missions was
oh, and I've read people saying that the dialogue in SC2 is better than in SC1... I've never been a crazy fanboy of starcraft but I've rewatch the whole SC1 campaign on youtube and I can honestly say that that is not true :o the dialogue in SC2 is horrible.
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Personally I think if Narud is Duran, that means he has to shapeshifting ability and when you look at it from the research he was doing in brood war it makes me believe that the fallen one is duran who has been pulling the strings from faction to faction to develop his vision of doom. A bit of a stretch though.
I don't get this whole overmind being a slave thing doesn't make sense in the context of from my basic knowledge of starcraft lore the overmind told the zerg to go kill all of the xel'naga? If it didn't have free will how would it do that? What does that even mean to not have free will? And why do the xel'naga's want to splice the protoss and zerg in the first place?
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On August 08 2010 12:20 McPwnage wrote:
Personally I think if Narud is Duran, that means he has to shapeshifting ability and when you look at it from the research he was doing in brood war it makes me believe that the fallen one is duran who has been pulling the strings from faction to faction to develop his vision of doom. A bit of a stretch though.
I don't get this whole overmind being a slave thing doesn't make sense in the context of from my basic knowledge of starcraft lore the overmind told the zerg to go kill all of the xel'naga? If it didn't have free will how would it do that? What does that even mean to not have free will? And why do the xel'naga's want to splice the protoss and zerg in the first place?
First paragraph: I think it's unlikely that Duran is the Fallen One. Remember the dialogue in BW... "I serve a far greater power (than Kerrigan)". That far greater power is probably the Fallen One/Dark Voice. It's not a stretch at all for Narud/Duran to be pulling the strings; we know from the secret mission that he has some level of control over Mengsk, and how the hell would the Moebius Foundation/Valerian know what the artifact does unless their head honcho Narud knows all about the Xel'Naga?
Second paragraph: Read some lore on the wiki. The Xel'Naga "reproduce" by making hybrids from two species, one with the purity of form (Protoss) and another with the purity of essence (Zerg). The hybrid race then becomes the next generation of Xel'Naga, possibly by the use of the artifact discovered by the Moebius Foundation in this game. If you accept that the Fallen One is the KL2 entity, then it's quite plausible that it corrupted the overmind without the Xel'Naga noticing until it was too late.
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To answer some of the Tychus questions out there, it seems like Mengsk manipulated him from the beginning to get to Kerrigan. He likely knew that Raynor wanted to get rid of the Queen of Blades and so had Tychus work through Raynor to get close to Kerrigan.
One piece of dialogue that supports this is after finishing I believe it was the mission where you destroy the archives for Moebius foundation, Matt says something along the lines of, "Every mission Tychus gives us gets us closer to Kerrigan".
Tychus is leading Raynor to Kerrigan, but at the end at Char, gets cold feet. Why? He has grown accustomed to freedom. As long as he doesn't meet up with Kerrigan, he's allowed relative freedom and can enjoy the company of Raynor, but the moment he meets up with Kerrigan, he'll lose all sense of freedom as he'll be forced to make a choice between life and his friendship (and he might end up dying either way).
He might also not want to make that choice and would prefer to stay out of the conflict and enjoy his freedom for as long as he can.
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On August 05 2010 00:16 nihoh wrote:
WHY DIDNT MENGSK JUST ACTIVATE THE BOMB WHEN TYCHUS WAS NEXT TO KERRIGAN
NVM Cos it wasn't a bomb it was poison.
HAHHAHHA u had me burst out laughing
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Chris Metzen should stick to being an artist and stop writing Blizzard game lore, all his stuff since Warcraft 3 had been utterly predictable and it all reads like a fan-fiction lore history allowed to go to print.
It's always been OH NOES A TERRIBLE OUTER ENEMY THAT THREATENS US ALL WE MUST UNITE TO STAND A CHANCE, seriously. I know the Xel'Naga has been mentioned often enough back in Starcraft 1 but still at least throw something at us that is not cliche.
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On August 04 2010 02:41 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 01:06 Noev wrote:
Your forgetting the most powerful fact of them all one that makes the artifact look like a toy... the power of being the main character(s). Everyone know this one ability can allow you to succeed in a situation where anyone/anything else would fail, never over estimate that trait. This only works if you're not a George R. R. Martin Character
Unless you're the dwarf... that dude is invincible : P
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On August 08 2010 13:56 Confuse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 02:41 Biochemist wrote:On August 04 2010 01:06 Noev wrote:
Your forgetting the most powerful fact of them all one that makes the artifact look like a toy... the power of being the main character(s). Everyone know this one ability can allow you to succeed in a situation where anyone/anything else would fail, never over estimate that trait. This only works if you're not a George R. R. Martin Character Unless you're the dwarf... that dude is invincible : P
No... his champion lost even as he won. that was the biggest WTF moment for me.
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To those saying Tychus isn't dead, he is. The post-game aftermath summary report thingy says he is matter-of-factly. Not to mention, if he wasn't dead, I doubt Raynor would have walked away with Kerrigan in his arms in to the sunset.
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I think the biggest problem is that some missions are optional that really shouldn't be, they could have made a much better plot if for example the rebellion/zeratul missions weren't optional. Then they could actually use what happened in those missions in more cinematics then just the ones after those missions.
And what happens if you do all the rebellion missions + secret mission before you do the zeratul mission? Doesn't raynor say something like "we fought a zerg/protoss hybrid, like the one zeratul fought" I mean, how would that make sense if in your play through you never did the zeratul missions?
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On August 04 2010 00:22 ArghUScaredMe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 00:19 ayadew wrote:
How Terran can even have a fraction of a chance against any Protoss army. Raynor even says himself that they're just amobeas in comparasion (still claiming that their religios views limits them, but really REALLY?) This doesn't bother me much because it's just part of SC universe. But UED inherently doesn't make sense and contradicts with its very universe.
limitations for the game. What, are they going to make an entirely new terran army? How would that even fit into MP?
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On August 04 2010 02:29 chraej. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 00:55 Captain Peabody wrote:1. Consider the amount of people we have in prision today that are scientists philosophers and other educated intellegent people whos only crimes are disagreeing with the people in power. They would help to keep pace with tech. I have also seen fan speculation that the UED came with a relitively small force and relied on local manufacturing like the Dylar shipyards. Also they UED brought medics too, I suppose heal beams are pretty high tech. (I have wondered this my self and I dont think this is a good enough explaination. ) Actually, that speculation is from Chris Metzen himself. According to him, the UED brought only a small force to the Koprulu sector and mostly relied on local equipment and tech. Even so, they managed to get all the way from Earth VERY fast (a matter of weeks, not months), so they do have better technology at least in this regard. As for (2), keep in mind that they most definitely do not defeat her. The invasion with a third of the fleet fails miserably, tens of thousands of troops are eaten alive on Char or are being pursued across the planet. In the confusion, Raynor manages to pull a small force together and reach the hive cluster under the cover of battle; then, they use the equivalent of a anti-Zerg nuke and a very defensible position (even against the Zerg, this is important) to hold out just long enough to activate the uber-superweapon. If it wasn't for the artifact, they would have been wiped out in a matter of minutes...and most of the Dominion troops almost certainly were anyway. So I don't find it that hard to believe. still, the story poorly reflects these facts regardless, i feel like it was conveyed in a pretty sloppy way
what? No it doesn't, like the last 3 cutscenes show they basically have their backs against the wall
its not the games fault you can't pay attention or infer anything yourself without it being spoonfed to you
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On August 04 2010 05:15 ConsummateK wrote:
Meh, I personally think you're being whiny. Again.
Regardless of this I will say one thing that tickled the back of my brain while playing was how on the UNN reports (and I believe in SC/BW) they reported BILLIONS of casualties from the Zerg and unless reach unit represents a full battalion or something then the numbers for the final confrontation don't quite seem to match up.
civilians, dummy, they attacked many of the outer rim worlds
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On August 04 2010 22:52 Loanshark wrote:
cliffhanger sequel potential to exploit the series more > A plot without holes.
how could you not know that there would be a cliffhanger when there are 2 more expansion packs
Brood War was a far worse cliffhanger that we had to wait 12 years for.
You people will bitch about anything christ
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On August 05 2010 11:51 ArvickHero wrote:
Arcturus is being mind controlled by the Xel'Naga, or he was killed and some look-alike puppet was put in his place. Explains all his retarded actions!!
The Battlecruiser boarding scene was pretty bad, I'm not sure what was going through the storywriter's mind when he wrote that in.
yeah that made no sense, why would he forcibly board it instead of just hailing on the comms
unless they boarded so quickly they didn't even bother, remember Raynor thought it was Arcturus
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On August 05 2010 12:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 12:22 On_Slaught wrote:On August 05 2010 12:02 perfectflaw72 wrote:On August 04 2010 00:24 Ndugu wrote:
As for 1, there are a thousand reasons Terran technological advancement could have slowed. Perhaps the type of technology used by Terrans peaked long ago, but they don't have the psionic/magic-energy powers of the Protoss to progress in a new direction.
As for 2, I think its pretty clear that almost all the Terran forces were wiped out.
An unimaginably powerful Xel'naga artifact was being used to periodically wipe out every single Zerg in a large radius. yeah but they landed derectly on char THE home planet of the zerg where they live and spawn so youd think that for every 1 marine that lands on the planet their is 100 lings 20 hydras 10 roachs... with the spore cannons it would be impossible to land units so you have to use drop pods but they scatter everywhere and should instantly be overwhelmed but in the game they give you time to get their, yeah the plot has problemes but hey its sc LOVE IT Did you even play the game? Did you watch the videos of the Dominion landing on Char? They were getting fucked up beyond belief. Anyone who bitches about the sc2 story (and there are plenty) should read through this thread. It pretty much explains why all your complains are ignorant or stupid. No, it doesn't. It's just a bunch of B.S. speculation to try to explain away plot holes. Almost nothing in this thread has been even remotely hinted at by Blizzard.
boy its like theres really 2 more games?
did you say "But wait there's millions of Zerg still rampaging on Aiur" after SC1
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On August 05 2010 14:36 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 13:48 On_Slaught wrote:On August 05 2010 12:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 05 2010 12:22 On_Slaught wrote:On August 05 2010 12:02 perfectflaw72 wrote:On August 04 2010 00:24 Ndugu wrote:
As for 1, there are a thousand reasons Terran technological advancement could have slowed. Perhaps the type of technology used by Terrans peaked long ago, but they don't have the psionic/magic-energy powers of the Protoss to progress in a new direction.
As for 2, I think its pretty clear that almost all the Terran forces were wiped out.
An unimaginably powerful Xel'naga artifact was being used to periodically wipe out every single Zerg in a large radius. yeah but they landed derectly on char THE home planet of the zerg where they live and spawn so youd think that for every 1 marine that lands on the planet their is 100 lings 20 hydras 10 roachs... with the spore cannons it would be impossible to land units so you have to use drop pods but they scatter everywhere and should instantly be overwhelmed but in the game they give you time to get their, yeah the plot has problemes but hey its sc LOVE IT Did you even play the game? Did you watch the videos of the Dominion landing on Char? They were getting fucked up beyond belief. Anyone who bitches about the sc2 story (and there are plenty) should read through this thread. It pretty much explains why all your complains are ignorant or stupid. No, it doesn't. It's just a bunch of B.S. speculation to try to explain away plot holes. Almost nothing in this thread has been even remotely hinted at by Blizzard. What you should take from all this "speculation" is that there is going to be a follow up. The point is that there are no plot holes because the plot isn't done. What has been pointed out is that it is EASY to explain all of these things with very reasonable explanations (which some people have tried to give) in the next game. Everyone selling the story before we even really know what the story is are foolish. There's a difference between an open plot and a plot with holes in it. You seem to have confused the two. Show nested quote +1. What's wrong with this? It's like you answered your own question. We know very little about them. We found out something. So what? Zeratul has hinted at this multiple times anyway.
2. Again what's wrong with this? The prophecy is just what they call it. How about we call it a "warning" since that's all it was. This is how the SC universe works. Zeratul found some left over stones that lay out what the process is. They try to get ready to stop it before it comes. Sweet.
3. Ya because dragoons don't exist right? There is a clear ethereal elemenet to the protoss and tassadar, who had mastered both dark and light, clearly has access to this. He broke apart his physical body to destroy the overmind so it's not a stretch that his "being" would survive. The problem with these first three isn't that they happened, it's that it's terrible story telling because it was poorly presented and it has been done plenty of times and even in Blizzard's own work (Warcraft). Show nested quote +
4. Why it worked is pretty obvious... because Valerian allowed it. Why would he want the help of Raynor if he couldn't even kill a couple of marines? Plus, the whole "so many things could of gone wrong" applies to literally almost every single movie, anime or show ever made. Doesn't even hold weight anymore.
What's stupid is that Raynor actually thought of doing this. He is supposed to be an intelligent person (in terms of strategy and tactics) yet any grandma would know that this is suicide. Show nested quote +
5. Clearly there is more to Mengsk than meets the eye. If it turns out there isn't then i'll join you in "this is dumb." Can't say that for a few years tho. Even then, this isn't even a plot hole.
No, there is nothing clear. There was absolutely nothing about Mengsk shown to us through WoL other than the fact that he's an idiot now. Show nested quote +
6. Again, they obviously had understanding. The moebius foundation has been working on this stuff for a while and it's all but certain that Duran is leading this research. Assuming it is, he obviously has the knowledge necessary. Plus, it seems that the artifact was built for this exact reason so why wouldn't it do what it did?
So how does Duran just know this stuff? Furthermore, how does no one get suspicious? Not only that, why would Duran want to wipe out so many Zerg and cure Kerrigan? Again, the main problem is that so many things are left so unbelievably wide open with not even a hint of what's going on.
Oh, and the other problem is this whole idea of the artifact. Super weapons tend to just be lazy story telling (and they are in this situation). There are few situations where super weapons should be used and they need to be used correctly or it just cheapens the story.Show nested quote +
7. Not a plot hole. They could of been watching over them for centuries for all we know. They are fanatics who spent a lot of time looking for them. They eventually found them. What's wrong with that?
Not a plot hole, but a complete failure in story telling. There is no depth to these characters. Show nested quote +
8. Few things on this. First, you could just say that Kerrigan was only so cunning because of Duran and that without him she lost her best strategist. Second, we don't know if there is some greater plan here. If she knew what the artifact did, and it turns out it makes her stronger by balancing her human/zerg powers, then it would make sense to either steal it for herself and use it as you see fit/study it etc. It seems clear to me that there is more to this since her attack on the Dominion comes off as random. I find it very unlikely that it would end up being nothing more than random fighting for hte hell of it. Last, who cares how she got there. Maybe she found it the same way Zeratul did. She does have billions of zerg looking for it around the galaxy... Oh and another thing. She clearly had a connection with the mind of the Overmind who had clear knowledge of the prophecy. That enough could tell her what she needed to know and where things were.
You only say the bold part in a blind attempt to justify this terrible story. There was no real hint of this going on in BW. And like I've said so many times, all of these theories are great, but the problem is that Blizzard hasn't hinted at any of this. All they showed us was an absolutely pathetic character that was more one-dimensional than Sauron.
What, Duran is very obviously an agent of the Dark Voice, how could you not even realize that. Did you not play Brood War secret mission or what? Because of this its very obvious why he'd want to destroy Kerrigan.
Superweapon is a macguffin, deal with it. The boarding party was really dumb though.
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The only thing that bothered me was the boarding party. Like how the hell did they manage to sneak into a BC fleet?
Other than that stop being so negative. I dare you to play just the Terran Campaign from SC Vanilla and tell me there's not plot holes and it's a complete story.
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On August 10 2010 00:24 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
The only thing that bothered me was the boarding party. Like how the hell did they manage to sneak into a BC fleet?
Other than that stop being so negative. I dare you to play just the Terran Campaign from SC Vanilla and tell me there's not plot holes and it's a complete story.
Maybe because Valerian ordered the fleet to stand down after jumping? I don't think he was planning on Raynor thinking he was Arcturus and boarding his ship, intent on killing him.
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What I find more interesting/disturbing is how the Terran Dominion manages to produce BC fleets so quickly.
Several worlds are under dominion control, each with a pop of at least a billion people(except some of the fringe worlds, like the one the female doctor came from).
all those worlds are rich with minerals necessary for the construction of battle cruisers and crap.
the kel morian combine has a monopoly on the minerals in the sector. i'm betting there's a company that's holding a monopoly on military grade hardware construction.
you know, like microsoft is a monopoly on software.
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On August 10 2010 00:24 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
The only thing that bothered me was the boarding party. Like how the hell did they manage to sneak into a BC fleet?
Other than that stop being so negative. I dare you to play just the Terran Campaign from SC Vanilla and tell me there's not plot holes and it's a complete story.
It's not that SC/BW were amazing, it's that WoL really is that terrible.
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On August 10 2010 02:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 00:24 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
The only thing that bothered me was the boarding party. Like how the hell did they manage to sneak into a BC fleet?
Other than that stop being so negative. I dare you to play just the Terran Campaign from SC Vanilla and tell me there's not plot holes and it's a complete story. It's not that SC/BW were amazing, it's that WoL really is that terrible.
Basically all your conclusions are based on faulty information that showed you didn't pay attention, like at all. Like saying the Zeratul missions didn't influence decision making regarding Kerrigan? That was the ENTIRE point of those missions
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On August 10 2010 02:59 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 02:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 10 2010 00:24 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
The only thing that bothered me was the boarding party. Like how the hell did they manage to sneak into a BC fleet?
Other than that stop being so negative. I dare you to play just the Terran Campaign from SC Vanilla and tell me there's not plot holes and it's a complete story. It's not that SC/BW were amazing, it's that WoL really is that terrible. Basically all your conclusions are based on faulty information that showed you didn't pay attention, like at all. Like saying the Zeratul missions didn't influence decision making regarding Kerrigan? That was the ENTIRE point of those missions
No, that's you jumping to conclusions. The actual presentation of the story didn't show us that it actually influenced Raynor's decision at all. You knew it should, you waited for it, but it never actually did, because if it did, that would be one of the first things he'd say to Matt, because he told Matt about all of the visions.
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Doesnt Raynor mention the prophecy when he argues with Tychus why they shouldnt kill Kerrigan at some point?
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1. The Artifact. Why did the Xel'naga build it? And when? Why did they split it into pieces and hide them around the galaxy? Why are the pieces so easy to find, being put in large obvious vaults and radiating energy that can be detected across vast expanses of space?
The Xel'naga engineered the Zerg from a bug species and created the Overmind, but after the Zerg took over the planet they originated on the Overmind decided the Zerg had to travel to other worlds to keep expanding so he assimilated some space creatures and made them into overlords, and then the Zerg attacked the Xel'naga because they just happened to be close by.
Obviously the Xel'naga didn't have the artifact at this point. It's conceivable that the few remaining Xel'naga built it after this, but if that's the case why didn't they use it to stop the Zerg? Because they wanted the Zerg to spread? Then why build the artifact in the first place?
And why break it into pieces and hide them? If it was built by the few remaining Xel'naga after most of them were wiped out by the Zerg, why wouldn't they just keep it?
2. The Tal'Darim. The Tal'Darim guy in Welcome to the Jungle says something like "This place was sacred to the Tal'Darim before Terrans ever reached the stars." But according to the books the Tal'Darim were only formed after the fall of Aiur.
3. This one's from SC1: Why did the Protoss land on Tarsonis to fight the Zerg instead of just wiping out all life on the planet from space like they did with Mar Sara and the other colony?
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alot of the complaints you people have are pretty well explicated in the game. Its pretty obvious you haven't paid attention or not done all of the missions. On that note, I've always wondered about how zerg units could fly in space, and how units would never run out of ammo; in the cinematic the marines are always running out of bullets, but never in game.
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On August 10 2010 03:41 Lysdexia wrote:
1. The Artifact. Why did the Xel'naga build it? And when? Why did they split it into pieces and hide them around the galaxy? Why are the pieces so easy to find, being put in large obvious vaults and radiating energy that can be detected across vast expanses of space?
The Xel'naga engineered the Zerg from a bug species and created the Overmind, but after the Zerg took over the planet they originated on the Overmind decided the Zerg had to travel to other worlds to keep expanding so he assimilated some space creatures and made them into overlords, and then the Zerg attacked the Xel'naga because they just happened to be close by.
Obviously the Xel'naga didn't have the artifact at this point. It's conceivable that the few remaining Xel'naga built it after this, but if that's the case why didn't they use it to stop the Zerg? Because they wanted the Zerg to spread? Then why build the artifact in the first place?
And why break it into pieces and hide them? If it was built by the few remaining Xel'naga after most of them were wiped out by the Zerg, why wouldn't they just keep it?
2. The Tal'Darim. The Tal'Darim guy in Welcome to the Jungle says something like "This place was sacred to the Tal'Darim before Terrans ever reached the stars." But according to the books the Tal'Darim were only formed after the fall of Aiur.
3. This one's from SC1: Why did the Protoss land on Tarsonis to fight the Zerg instead of just wiping out all life on the planet from space like they did with Mar Sara and the other colony?
1. Who knows? Maybe that's what Xel'Naga do, engineer species and make a kill switch for them should things get out of hand, or maybe they knew that one day something like it would be needed. As for the splitting of the artifact, that one's still a mystery but it's a pretty common theme in fiction for the main plot device to be fragmented. Regarding the placement of the artifacts, they were the gods of the universe. If I was a god I'd like my relics to be in pretty flashy temples.
It also seems like you don't know how the Cycle works. It's been described (by Zamara if memory serves) as "a benevolent destruction of two species." The Xel'Naga wanted the Zerg to find the Protoss.
2. Yes, the books do imply that the Tal'Darim were formed after the fall of Aiur by Ulrezaj but Nyon's statements seem to imply some form of retcon on Blizzard's part.
3. The Protoss decided to help the Terrans fight the Zerg rather than purify the planet. That one comes from the installer and one of the audios on the Dominion hype-site (they're actually the same audio/picture clips, just from two different sources)
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On August 10 2010 03:58 afirlortwo wrote:
alot of the complaints you people have are pretty well explicated in the game. Its pretty obvious you haven't paid attention or not done all of the missions. On that note, I've always wondered about how zerg units could fly in space, and how units would never run out of ammo; in the cinematic the marines are always running out of bullets, but never in game.
That'd be a pretty terrible game if we followed realism to the letter.
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On August 10 2010 03:58 afirlortwo wrote:
alot of the complaints you people have are pretty well explicated in the game. Its pretty obvious you haven't paid attention or not done all of the missions. On that note, I've always wondered about how zerg units could fly in space, and how units would never run out of ammo; in the cinematic the marines are always running out of bullets, but never in game.
I believe the Zerg flying in space was explained by air pockets inside their body, or some other sort of biological trait that allowed them to survive in vacuum. And if my Marines ran out of ammunition in the middle of a battle then quickly got destroyed by my opponent's Zealots that would suck so hard, wouldn't it?
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On August 04 2010 02:04 Dezzimal wrote:High heels, the pinnacle of Zerg evolution.
yea, this is probably on the list of terrible terrible things about the campaign.
the only fun missions where the micro non-base building missions (anyone with d+ macro can beat the brutal missions with MMM or banshee+tank+viking. build two scvs at once! that is so nice. )
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The Terran were having huge problems thats why the sent the ships to expand. Who knows what war/choas/lack of resources or any other problem that could have made the UED limited. Maybe they do have more advanced tech but in the expeditionary fleet they didn't send it. The only thing that bothers me is that the UED isn't mentioned except like once. I would at least like blizzard to go "and the UED were planning/notseen/waiting" anything besides this half assed story. The funny thing is the game was really fun and great levels for playing, but the story just sucked and the missions felt like wow quests rather than immersive story that matters.
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Mutalisks flapping their wings in space... it bothers me sooooo much
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If Leviathan can accompany the Mutalisk/Broodlord fleets in the air version of "All In", why doesn't the Queen join the Nydus assault in the ground version of it?
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If Duran is Dark Voice's pawn, why did he help Kerrigan in the zerg Broodwar campaign?
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It seems like most of you are forgetting that there are actually 2 more games comming out. My bet is that alot of the plot holes will be explained there. And if not, oh well atleast i enjoyed the campaign myself.
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On August 10 2010 20:13 Passionario wrote:
If Leviathan can accompany the Mutalisk/Broodlord fleets in the air version of "All In", why doesn't the Queen join the Nydus assault in the ground version of it?
Because the queens protect the swarm hives. They are no assault unit.
Plot hole fixed. You're welcome.
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I wonder if any blizzard employee is reading all of these threads and saying
"holy shit, we fucked up the sc history"
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On August 11 2010 10:20 oo_xerox wrote:
I wonder if any blizzard employee is reading all of these threads and saying
"holy shit, we fucked up the sc history"
I wonder how many Blizzard employee's are thinking "Why doesn't anyone get that the story always has huge plot holes early on...like losts...we only got answers in the last three episodes or so."
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
Yeeeeeahhh... both of those bother me too. I like to pretend that everyone on earth discovered a new drug which allowed the terrans to catch up. Either that or technology has hit a plateau which does happen.
Think about it. CPUs nowadays do not get any faster. All we're doing now is stacking more of the same CPUs on top of each other. Same with cars. They aren't getting any faster, but just more efficient.
As for the second part, we can assume that the zerg at the time was too spread out to defend char. I get this from the news bit after Gates of Hell saying that zerg began retreating from planets they invaded and aren't sure why. This suggest maybe the char defenses were weak. Either way it isn't explained too well.
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On August 04 2010 00:23 Superiorwolf wrote:
who cares, it's a game
you should stop being so negative, i haven't seen you post a single positive thing about sc2.
If you dont care then stay out of the discussion
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Actually I dont see many plotholes. Valerian probably though Raynor wouldnt do something stupid like going all-in attack facing a whole fleet of BCs. Thats why Raynor was able to board. Makes for some bad decisions, but humans wont always do rational things. Remember Raynor was convinced Acturus was on that ship and went berserk.
And landing on char isnt that far-fetched. They had a really big fleet to cover them and Kerrigan didnt saw something like that coming. If you look at the timeprints the terran forces managed to land on char holding position for some mere hours, before the artifact did the rest of the work. Obviously you can only gather a small amount of chars zerg in that few hours, that planet is rather big. Quite a long run for that poor zerglings. And remember zerg have to eat and stuff, they'd be stupid increasing their numbers on that planet by too much. So all the terrans did was a suprise attack, barely holding a very very small territory on char withgreat casualities.
There are some plotholes that exists due to limits of blizzards story telling. Like some mere audio-file (ofc you can fake that stuff easily) putting pressure on Acturus, but I guess the adjutant actually had a lot of data to be spread, its just that blizzard used the audios as looking at datatables isnt all that exiting to most people. So its more about simplification and more exiting storytelling.
Then again while not being plotholes prophecies and deus ex machina dont make for great stories. I hope we'll at least learn more about those two in the sequels, but I'm rather sceptical as they never really cared to explain the xel'naga temple explosion either.
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On August 11 2010 14:54 alsowikk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 10:20 oo_xerox wrote:
I wonder if any blizzard employee is reading all of these threads and saying
"holy shit, we fucked up the sc history" I wonder how many Blizzard employee's are thinking "Why doesn't anyone get that the story always has huge plot holes early on...like losts...we only got answers in the last three episodes or so."
How cute, your defending the huge amount of stupid plotholes. You think those are going to get fixed in the last 2 missions of the protoss campaign? They are fucking up everything, i still like the story, but its turning into a cartoon.
On August 11 2010 16:21 Yeran wrote:
1-Actually I dont see many plotholes. Valerian probably though Raynor wouldnt do something stupid like going all-in attack facing a whole fleet of BCs. Thats why Raynor was able to board. Makes for some bad decisions, but humans wont always do rational things. Remember Raynor was convinced Acturus was on that ship and went berserk.
2-And landing on char isnt that far-fetched. They had a really big fleet to cover them and Kerrigan didnt saw something like that coming. If you look at the timeprints the terran forces managed to land on char holding position for some mere hours, before the artifact did the rest of the work. Obviously you can only gather a small amount of chars zerg in that few hours, that planet is rather big. Quite a long run for that poor zerglings. And remember zerg have to eat and stuff, they'd be stupid increasing their numbers on that planet by too much. So all the terrans did was a suprise attack, barely holding a very very small territory on char withgreat casualities.
3-There are some plotholes that exists due to limits of blizzards story telling. Like some mere audio-file (ofc you can fake that stuff easily) putting pressure on Acturus, but I guess the adjutant actually had a lot of data to be spread, its just that blizzard used the audios as looking at datatables isnt all that exiting to most people. So its more about simplification and more exiting storytelling.
4-Then again while not being plotholes prophecies and deus ex machina dont make for great stories. I hope we'll at least learn more about those two in the sequels, but I'm rather sceptical as they never really cared to explain the xel'naga temple explosion either.
1- I dont think any reasonable crew member would let him do that. If valerian wanted him to board the BC, then why they were being engaged by hostile marines? I dont think such a great mind like valerian would risk it like that, what if tychus/raynor got shot?
2- Actually i agree with you there, i dont see the char invasion as a huge plothole.
3- The thing there was actually mengsk reaction, on how would he allow that broadcast to happen if tychus was working for him, that was a huge blow to his reputation
4- WORD
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Bothers me how in some version of campaign people live, some versions people die. Makes me wonder how they will wrap up loose ends.
also last toss mission everyone is forced to die, how did they live after that wtf?
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Also at the op your #2 comment.
Kerrigan's swarm had nothing to do with defending the platform it was all you her cerebrate.
Also they didn't plan on defeating the zerg, it was a carefully planned assault on char, with forces focus on a single location, not to mention they had a magical stick they could wave around to fry zergs. (this actually bothers me that it has to "charge" and it also has an ability to fry zergs which is exactly like its final form, only its final form can turn kerrigan back to human. This really bothers me that its just a "wave" that goes out and bam she is human again. I think it woulda been better if you had to capture her, and contain her for a the time and then the artifact could be used on her. )
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On August 11 2010 17:33 StorrZerg wrote:
Bothers me how in some version of campaign people live, some versions people die. Makes me wonder how they will wrap up loose ends.
also last toss mission everyone is forced to die, how did they live after that wtf?
The last Protoss mission was just a glimpse of the future if Kerrigan is killed, which is why all the big name Protoss heroes died.
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1- I dont think any reasonable crew member would let him do that. If valerian wanted him to board the BC, then why they were being engaged by hostile marines? I dont think such a great mind like valerian would risk it like that, what if tychus/raynor got shot?
2- Actually i agree with you there, i dont see the char invasion as a huge plothole.
3- The thing there was actually mengsk reaction, on how would he allow that broadcast to happen if tychus was working for him, that was a huge blow to his reputation
4- WORD[/QUOTE]
Since I guess everyone thinks I have limitless faith in Blizzard I'll put in some of my thoughts on this stuff
1 I kind of intepretted it as an act of desperation. Even with the biggest bc their is they were far to outnumberred and if they reached Mengsk(who they thought was there) they could get revenge on him before they were killed.
2. Wait?! We agree on somethings?
3. I assume it was somewhat sudden or that it was nessecary to keep Tychus close to Raynor. It's a bit wierd but he hadn't gotten what he wanted out of Tychus so he told him to go ahead(or Tychus went ahead without being orderred knwoing Mengsk wouldn't kill him).
4. *see 2*
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mutas flapping their wings in space to move around and attack a battle cruiser. that was pretty funny..and bad.
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On August 11 2010 23:00 chrisSquire wrote:
mutas flapping their wings in space to move around and attack a battle cruiser. that was pretty funny..and bad.
hell yes, thing that made me sigh the most out of anything I've ever seen.
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On August 04 2010 00:09 ArghUScaredMe wrote:
I've always wondered this in SC1:
1. Terrans are social misfits, dissents, and criminals sent in 3 gigantic ships to far away planets from Earth. When they crash landed, they had to restart their technological advancement and civilization from scratch. It took them about 2-3 generations until space travel was possible again. It took them another 4-5 generations of killing each other. All in the meanwhile, humans on EARTH must've been advancing exponentially. In BW, when UED shows up, their technology is comparable to Terrans. Same Battlecruiser and all they have to show are Valkyries.
Wouldn't UED be far more advanced? They should be somewhere between Terrans and Protoss. I thought this was always ridiculous.
2. Kerrigan was powerful enough to steamroll Artanis' faction, Mengsk's Dominion, and UED all at once at the end of BW. Her power was unchallenged and spent 4 years bolstering forces even more. In SC2, she is defeated by half of Dominion forces and Raynor's ragtag group?
Ouch so wrong.
1. Why should UED continue to progress that much? Progress always happens for a reason, most technology in our time progressed around the time of wars. Maybe there is a cap that once you reach you cannot go much further?
UED arrived in Korpulu and kicked Dominion ass. They were so powerful that they managed to control the new Overmind as well as Kerrigan, Rayor and Protoss all ganged up to defeat them.
Don't look at their progress only through 2 units in multiplayer.
2. She didn't spend 4 years making more and more troops, she spent it making new kinds of zergs as well as looking into these prophesies and artifacts business (same as Zeratul).
In Sc2 she is defeated by a Xel'Naga technology which is beyond anything Terrans, Protoss or Zergs possess. Also you need to understand the difference between they defeated the Zerg and only Kerrigan. She did not have the full Zerg force behind her in the last mission as well as you still get overrun if you do not have the artifact to save you in the end. Something similar to Toss mission in SC1 where you activate the xel naga temple to whipe out Zerg as they cannot defeat them by force.
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On August 11 2010 17:42 zoLo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 17:33 StorrZerg wrote:
Bothers me how in some version of campaign people live, some versions people die. Makes me wonder how they will wrap up loose ends.
also last toss mission everyone is forced to die, how did they live after that wtf? The last Protoss mission was just a glimpse of the future if Kerrigan is killed, which is why all the big name Protoss heroes died.
oooo guess that is better, i still hated playing the mission knowing everyone was going to die :S
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On August 11 2010 16:21 Yeran wrote:
Actually I dont see many plotholes. Valerian probably though Raynor wouldnt do something stupid like going all-in attack facing a whole fleet of BCs. Thats why Raynor was able to board. Makes for some bad decisions, but humans wont always do rational things. Remember Raynor was convinced Acturus was on that ship and went berserk.
And landing on char isnt that far-fetched. They had a really big fleet to cover them and Kerrigan didnt saw something like that coming. If you look at the timeprints the terran forces managed to land on char holding position for some mere hours, before the artifact did the rest of the work. Obviously you can only gather a small amount of chars zerg in that few hours, that planet is rather big. Quite a long run for that poor zerglings. And remember zerg have to eat and stuff, they'd be stupid increasing their numbers on that planet by too much. So all the terrans did was a suprise attack, barely holding a very very small territory on char withgreat casualities.
There are some plotholes that exists due to limits of blizzards story telling. Like some mere audio-file (ofc you can fake that stuff easily) putting pressure on Acturus, but I guess the adjutant actually had a lot of data to be spread, its just that blizzard used the audios as looking at datatables isnt all that exiting to most people. So its more about simplification and more exiting storytelling.
Then again while not being plotholes prophecies and deus ex machina dont make for great stories. I hope we'll at least learn more about those two in the sequels, but I'm rather sceptical as they never really cared to explain the xel'naga temple explosion either.
Great points! The attack on char had only one purpose, a surgical strike against kerrigan to use the deus ex machina hoping to be in and out before things got too hot.
About the xel'naga temple. It was the same thing as the artifact. Seems xel'naga have a habit of making convenient artifacts.
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at the begining of that mission, i killed every hero just to see the dialogues lol, and when they keep appearing i just shot them down, mind you when artanis arrived i was lost already.....
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On August 11 2010 23:00 chrisSquire wrote:
mutas flapping their wings in space to move around and attack a battle cruiser. that was pretty funny..and bad.
I don't know why this bothers people. In space movies, there should actually be no sound in space, but no PEW PEW in space makes for a really dull movie. Only 2001 A Space Odyssey did this for the sake of realism and that movie had a completely different tone than most sci-fi.
Besides, maybe the flapping is instinctive and they can float around just like broodlords/guardians/scourges and any other non-flapping zerg. Hovar without flapping as it were.
But I have no idea if Blizzard has any official lore on that. That's how I'd explain it away.
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On August 04 2010 00:50 killa_robot wrote:
The artifact is what bugs me most, they were all "Hmmm this mysterious artifact could help us!" and then they magically know how to use it and kill all the zerg? Not to mention they were able to get a successful foothold right beside the main hive?
Also they said that 80% of the flyers were in a nest, which is pretty believable tbh, the rest were offworld and the few remaining were so scattered you just never encountered them.
UED sent a small task force, so obviously they wouldn't be bringing all of their technology with them, they probably also figured if they brought things too advanced the dominion would be able to take that tech and use it against them.
They didn't magically know... Dr. Narud was doing research on it.
+ Show Spoiler +and Narud backwards is Duran. That's where he's been hiding.
/end speculation
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On August 12 2010 07:52 Duskbane wrote:They didn't magically know... Dr. Narud was doing research on it. + Show Spoiler +and Narud backwards is Duran. That's where he's been hiding. /end speculation
I shat bricks! :o
Nice find - Didn't see that at all
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Raynor dishonored Fenix's memory by forgetting to avenge him like he promised.
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Raynor killed the parts of Kerrigan that killed Fenix...he couldn't do much more then that.
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On August 05 2010 13:03 0mar wrote:
First, you could just say that Kerrigan was only so cunning because of Duran and that without him she lost her best strategist.
Wait are we talking about the same Kerrigan that played the Dark Templar against each other and betrayed and killed Fenix and Duke? Who made Zeratul kill his own matriarch? Who manipulated her enemies to kill the new overmind so she could better control the swarm? You telling me this Kerrigan isn't cunning?
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Lava planet. Why are all of you guys walking around with your helmets o-
SWANN GET SOME ARMOUR ON MY GOD THE RADIANT HEAT WILL BAKE YOU ALIVE DID YOU THINK THIS PLACE WAS JUST CONVECTION NO GOOD GOD GET THE ASBESTOS SOMEBODY OHGODHE'SBURNINGUPHE'SONFIREOHGODIT'SOHORRIBLE!
On August 04 2010 11:58 Luckbox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 11:26 Gedrah wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It wasn't Valerian that put him in the suit. It was Mengsk. But I agree, it's dumb that Horner and Raynor are aware of the death suit but don't confront him or do anything about it until it's "too late." However, we never see Tychus get shot. I'm aware of that - but Valerian reveals himself to be the leader of the foundation - my point is Raynor would be like "hey remove the suit?" when they meet. We know it's Mengsk but Raynor should think it's Valerian.
I simply attribute it to Raynor playing his cards close to his chest.
"Valerian knows that he's in control of Tychus, and I know that Valerian's in control of Tychus, but Valerian doesn't know that I know that he's in control of Tychus. If Valerian would agree to remove it, then he probably wouldn't have used it in the first place. On the other hand, if I press the issue, he might just Paul Denton his agent now that he knows he's been found out."
Or something like that. With fewer Deus Ex references. I dunno.
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On August 10 2010 00:24 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
The only thing that bothered me was the boarding party. Like how the hell did they manage to sneak into a BC fleet?
Other than that stop being so negative. I dare you to play just the Terran Campaign from SC Vanilla and tell me there's not plot holes and it's a complete story.
Problem is that terran campaign is 1/3 of a single game. WoL is an entire ~30 mission campaign. I guess it's differences in expectations than what we're used to. And liked I've said over and over, they probably only planned for WoL to be a 10 mission campaign like usual, but they decided to split the game up into 3 games instead. Thin plot is thin! I'm pretty sure though they have the entire SC2 plot over the three games planned already.
On August 10 2010 03:41 Lysdexia wrote:
1. The Artifact. Why did the Xel'naga build it? And when? Why did they split it into pieces and hide them around the galaxy? Why are the pieces so easy to find, being put in large obvious vaults and radiating energy that can be detected across vast expanses of space?
The Xel'naga engineered the Zerg from a bug species and created the Overmind, but after the Zerg took over the planet they originated on the Overmind decided the Zerg had to travel to other worlds to keep expanding so he assimilated some space creatures and made them into overlords, and then the Zerg attacked the Xel'naga because they just happened to be close by.
Obviously the Xel'naga didn't have the artifact at this point. It's conceivable that the few remaining Xel'naga built it after this, but if that's the case why didn't they use it to stop the Zerg? Because they wanted the Zerg to spread? Then why build the artifact in the first place?
And why break it into pieces and hide them? If it was built by the few remaining Xel'naga after most of them were wiped out by the Zerg, why wouldn't they just keep it?
2. The Tal'Darim. The Tal'Darim guy in Welcome to the Jungle says something like "This place was sacred to the Tal'Darim before Terrans ever reached the stars." But according to the books the Tal'Darim were only formed after the fall of Aiur.
3. This one's from SC1: Why did the Protoss land on Tarsonis to fight the Zerg instead of just wiping out all life on the planet from space like they did with Mar Sara and the other colony?
If I remember correctly, Protoss decided they didn't want to do that anymore. Tassadar wasn't very keen on just wiping out the terrans along with the zerg like that. He did so before under orders from his bosses (the conclave?)
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On August 11 2010 22:54 alsowikk wrote:
1- I dont think any reasonable crew member would let him do that. If valerian wanted him to board the BC, then why they were being engaged by hostile marines? I dont think such a great mind like valerian would risk it like that, what if tychus/raynor got shot?
2- Actually i agree with you there, i dont see the char invasion as a huge plothole.
3- The thing there was actually mengsk reaction, on how would he allow that broadcast to happen if tychus was working for him, that was a huge blow to his reputation
4- WORD
Since I guess everyone thinks I have limitless faith in Blizzard I'll put in some of my thoughts on this stuff
1 I kind of intepretted it as an act of desperation. Even with the biggest bc their is they were far to outnumberred and if they reached Mengsk(who they thought was there) they could get revenge on him before they were killed.
2. Wait?! We agree on somethings?
3. I assume it was somewhat sudden or that it was nessecary to keep Tychus close to Raynor. It's a bit wierd but he hadn't gotten what he wanted out of Tychus so he told him to go ahead(or Tychus went ahead without being orderred knwoing Mengsk wouldn't kill him).
4. *see 2*[/QUOTE]
Forget about the craziness in boarding the BC, they were being shot in there, thats a bit risky...i dont think valerian is aware that Raynor is under the jedi efect of killing everyone and never got shot.
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On August 10 2010 03:41 Lysdexia wrote:And why break it into pieces and hide them? If it was built by the few remaining Xel'naga after most of them were wiped out by the Zerg, why wouldn't they just keep it?
Maybe they didn't?
Maybe it was built in separate places in the first place with the intention of combining them proper-like later?
Why do that? Bugger if I know. Maybe the needed resources for each part were on different planets or some crap. Maybe they were together but got plundered by someone else and transported off-world (see: Brood War protoss campaign).
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Something minor I thought was a bit of a hole:
In the Shatter the Sky mission, they specifically state that nukes aren't feasible because the flyers are too deep to take out. However, they decide taking out the cooling stations instead, to take down the platform. So...why couldn't they just nuke the cooling stations? Ironically, you can use just nukes to take them out if you want, kind of refuting the entire "no nukes" comment and rendering the mission plot-wise unneeded. Eh well, the more missions the better
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On August 10 2010 03:41 Lysdexia wrote:
2. The Tal'Darim. The Tal'Darim guy in Welcome to the Jungle says something like "This place was sacred to the Tal'Darim before Terrans ever reached the stars." But according to the books the Tal'Darim were only formed after the fall of Aiur.
lol wtf.
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Protoss fleets can supposedly vaporize a planet's surface in seconds, and often do so to stop Zerg infestations. However, in the Safe Haven mission, Raynor's team somehow prevents it with his paltry force.
Jim Raynor is the most wanted man in Dominion space, and he hails from Mar Sara. IIRC, Mengsk assists him first on Mar Sara in SC1, but when they become enemies, Mengsk doesn't crack down HARD on Mar Sara, the first and most obvious place he should have looked to find Raynor. For someone who rules with an iron fist, he does so in an incredibly inefficient manner.
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Rain on Char, 'nuff said.
How the hell can it possibly rain if the place is as hot as the general dude described?
And how can Kerrigan be back to human and naked and not get killed by said super-hot atmosphere?
Parts of the planet cooling enough for such things to happen is what they would use as an explanation, still it's pretty much bs and an unbelievable stretch for a goddamn LAVA PLANET.
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I thought Blizzard was okay at story telling until I read this thread.
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On August 12 2010 14:01 ghostunit wrote:
Rain on Char, 'nuff said.
How the hell can it possibly rain if the place is as hot as the general dude described?
And how can Kerrigan be back to human and naked and not get killed by said super-hot atmosphere?
Parts of the planet cooling enough for such things to happen is what they would use as an explanation, still it's pretty much bs and an unbelievable stretch for a goddamn LAVA PLANET.
The hottest places on earth happen to rain the most. But you have to wonder where is that water coming from? It's probably so hot that standing water doesn't last that long and vaporizes quickly so all moisture is in the atmosphere. And just because it's a planet with heavy volcanic activity doesn't mean it HAS to be hot. They all standing around with their helmets off and stetman and swann are standing around with NOTHING.
Still, this is just how I would explain it away. Surely when Blizzard tries to make something official they'll say something like a xel'naga artifact left there 10,000 years ago is messing with the climate of the planet and that a great war was fought between protoss and there was a great compromise to set the xel'naga thermostat to 98. It's never that simple with Blizzard, remember that.
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On August 04 2010 00:23 Superiorwolf wrote:
who cares, it's a game
User was warned for this post
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rain on char is fine, and the reason kerrigan doesn't die is obviously due to her psionic powers.
real question is still definitely why mengsk is so bad at stopping things from threatening his rule. they stole the adjutant with his words, and then proceeded to do nothing about it, despite the fact that he knew tychus was with raynor, and that raynor had it... you know... in addition to the whole, knowing where raynor is and doing nothing about it.
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On August 12 2010 12:38 Assymptotic wrote:
Protoss fleets can supposedly vaporize a planet's surface in seconds, and often do so to stop Zerg infestations. However, in the Safe Haven mission, Raynor's team somehow prevents it with his paltry force.
Jim Raynor is the most wanted man in Dominion space, and he hails from Mar Sara. IIRC, Mengsk assists him first on Mar Sara in SC1, but when they become enemies, Mengsk doesn't crack down HARD on Mar Sara, the first and most obvious place he should have looked to find Raynor. For someone who rules with an iron fist, he does so in an incredibly inefficient manner.
There is a difference between protoss fleet lead by Tassadar before the fall of Aiur and the ones that are left now after the fall and countless massive battles with the zerg.
Mar Sara was destroyed first by the Zerg and then incinerated by the protoss fleet.
This Mar Sara is a "new" colony that probably has only a few people that knew him when he was a marshal there.
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On August 12 2010 16:59 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
rain on char is fine, and the reason kerrigan doesn't die is obviously due to her psionic powers.
real question is still definitely why mengsk is so bad at stopping things from threatening his rule. they stole the adjutant with his words, and then proceeded to do nothing about it, despite the fact that he knew tychus was with raynor, and that raynor had it... you know... in addition to the whole, knowing where raynor is and doing nothing about it.
Mengsk works with or for Duran. Killing Kerrigan so Hybrids can take over the Zerg is more important.
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On August 12 2010 18:50 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 16:59 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
rain on char is fine, and the reason kerrigan doesn't die is obviously due to her psionic powers.
real question is still definitely why mengsk is so bad at stopping things from threatening his rule. they stole the adjutant with his words, and then proceeded to do nothing about it, despite the fact that he knew tychus was with raynor, and that raynor had it... you know... in addition to the whole, knowing where raynor is and doing nothing about it. Mengsk works with or for Duran. Killing Kerrigan so Hybrids can take over the Zerg is more important.
That's pure speculation. Assuming that Mengsk works for Duran is the equivalent of assuming the Confederacy works for the Zerg just because we saw Zerg in the Jacobs Installation.
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On August 12 2010 22:07 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 18:50 -Archangel- wrote:On August 12 2010 16:59 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
rain on char is fine, and the reason kerrigan doesn't die is obviously due to her psionic powers.
real question is still definitely why mengsk is so bad at stopping things from threatening his rule. they stole the adjutant with his words, and then proceeded to do nothing about it, despite the fact that he knew tychus was with raynor, and that raynor had it... you know... in addition to the whole, knowing where raynor is and doing nothing about it. Mengsk works with or for Duran. Killing Kerrigan so Hybrids can take over the Zerg is more important. That's pure speculation. Assuming that Mengsk works for Duran is the equivalent of assuming the Confederacy works for the Zerg just because we saw Zerg in the Jacobs Installation.
It is a speculation but one backed by enough evidence to make it a likely scenario.
1. Duran is really manipulative. We learn this from how he handles UED.
2. Duran is really powerful.
3. Duran was trying to create the Hybrids in the novels.
4. Dominion had a facility for creating Hybrids and Dominion does not possess technology to do that, and Duran is the only one that we know that is trying to do that.
5. Duran works for the Dark Voice (novels).
6. Dark Voice either controls the Hybrids or he is working with them.
7. Hybrids need Kerrigan dead to rule the Zerg.
8. Mengsk has a perfect spy in the ranks of Raynor but does not use him to stop Raynor but to do what Hybrids and Dark Voice want and what Duran wants.
9. Since Duran was the only agent of the Dark Voice before the Hybrids were created Mengsk could have only worked for him or with him (Mengsk might not know who Duran is as Samir Duran is surely not his real name).
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Duran also told Zeratul that he had put the machines to make Hybrids on thousands of worlds. It's possible that Mensk simply found some of these machines and was studying them to understand how the work. This would explain why Mensk was trying to clone the Hybrid, rather than breeding them.
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Tychus being dead --
Its true that Tychus is 'dead' BUT he is a fresh corpse on a planet that is probably the easiest in the universe to be infested on. The zerg are without a leader. Here is a strong and ...ambitious man. Who's to say the zerg couldn't repair 1 little bullet wound and evolve him into the hive mind as the new Zerg go-to man?
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On August 13 2010 05:13 CowFu wrote:
Tychus being dead --
Its true that Tychus is 'dead' BUT he is a fresh corpse on a planet that is probably the easiest in the universe to be infested on. The zerg are without a leader. Here is a strong and ...ambitious man. Who's to say the zerg couldn't repair 1 little bullet wound and evolve him into the hive mind as the new Zerg go-to man?
i like this idea because he always hints at how he HATE infested marines
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On August 13 2010 05:13 CowFu wrote:
Tychus being dead --
Its true that Tychus is 'dead' BUT he is a fresh corpse on a planet that is probably the easiest in the universe to be infested on. The zerg are without a leader. Here is a strong and ...ambitious man. Who's to say the zerg couldn't repair 1 little bullet wound and evolve him into the hive mind as the new Zerg go-to man?
Raynor probably didn't just leave him there, and I don't recall the Zerg being able to just resurrect people on a whim.
Not only that, it would be absolutely terrible writing. He doesn't even have the Psionic potential to control any Zerg.
Oh, and Blizzard's mentioned how you'll play Kerrigan in HotS in an RPG-esque way to increase her powers & control over the Zerg.
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It would be cool if we ran into Infested Tycus in the next game, but the Zombie like type
And then get a chance to blow him up :D
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Raynor was carrying Karrigan on a planet ready to re-swarm with zerg, I really doubt he went back for a corpse.
They might be using his knowledge of the Terran, and the overmind could easily instill any Psionic skills needed. But I was really thinking of him becoming more of a zerg supermonster, a super-fast, hyper-aggressive zerg (thus keeping his personality traits, just like they did with Karrigan). Think of him as a ground version of the 'class 10 flying zerg' in the final map, spawning crap and hitting things with spine crawlers.
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On August 13 2010 05:38 CowFu wrote:
Raynor was carrying Karrigan on a planet ready to re-swarm with zerg, I really doubt he went back for a corpse.
They might be using his knowledge of the Terran, and the overmind could easily instill any Psionic skills needed. But I was really thinking of him becoming more of a zerg supermonster, a super-fast, hyper-aggressive zerg (thus keeping his personality traits, just like they did with Karrigan). Think of him as a ground version of the 'class 10 flying zerg' in the final map, spawning crap and hitting things with spine crawlers.
If he had time to leisurely stroll out holding Kerrigan, he has time to tell the grunts to grab the damn corpse. Oh, and what Overmind? The Overmind is still dead.
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On August 13 2010 06:17 Stratos_speAr wrote:
If he had time to leisurely stroll out holding Kerrigan, he has time to tell the grunts to grab the damn corpse. Oh, and what Overmind? The Overmind is still dead.
D'OH *slaps forehead* how did I forget that?
I'm going to assume more grunts died than are left alive, they're not going back for a traitors corpse out of all the people that died. You snag the dog-tags off the fallen in a battlefield, not the corpse.
But without the overmind, kerrigan, the zerg really need some sort of a leading entity. Be it a hive-mind super thing, Tychus, the queen of blades only being dormant inside of Kerrigan, the artifact not working the way they thought and restarting a new Overmind, SOMETHING.
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I think the UED was what it was technologically because of the constraints SC1 had. What bothers me the most about SC2 is how the events of Brood War seemed so damn trivial.
Kerrigan was such a bad ass in broodwar she and her brood could have snuffed out every single race out of the galaxy. But she bided her time to? To what? After 4 years Kerrigan carries out a failed full on assault on the Terran Dominion for revenge? And still get ROFL STOMPED by half the dominion forces at the end. I hope HOTS answers what the shit was she doing all those 4 years.
Also what happened to this:
Jim Raynor: "It may not be tomorow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you."
Fenix's murder.....is unforgivable!!
The real question is why did Raynor save Kerrigan? Because he had a crush on her (that would make no sense after the events of Brood War) or was it because of the prophecy?
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Jim Raynor: "It may not be tomorow, darlin', it may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured; I'm the man who's gonna kill you one day. I'll be seeing you."
Fenix's murder.....is unforgivable!!
The real question is why did Raynor save Kerrigan? Because he had a crush on her (that would make no sense after the events of Brood War) or was it because of the prophecy?
Try being an unsuccesful revolutionist for 4 years being hated by your own race and you'll see how despair is near.
Also, Kerrigan may have manipulated him with her psionic powers like she did whenshe was in her chrysalis (sc1 reference)
But what have bothered me the most since sc1 is stuff like this:
a barracks costs 150 minerals
a marine's suit cost 50 minerals (assuming you just pay the suit)
so what? you need the same amount of minerals to build a huge building AND three little space suits?
What the heck?
Also:
Raynor probably didn't just leave him there, and I don't recall the Zerg being able to just resurrect people on a whim.
In some special missions of brood war that's what happened to alexei stukov: he was infected after his death. Canonically, Raynor saved him...
Link to starcraft wiki: Here is the ref
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On August 13 2010 21:13 CowFu wrote:But without the overmind, kerrigan, the zerg really need some sort of a leading entity. Be it a hive-mind super thing, Tychus, the queen of blades only being dormant inside of Kerrigan, the artifact not working the way they thought and restarting a new Overmind, SOMETHING.
Hybrids. They're the only one left who can control the Zerg.
On August 13 2010 21:27 potatomash3r wrote:The real question is why did Raynor save Kerrigan? Because he had a crush on her (that would make no sense after the events of Brood War) or was it because of the prophecy?
You can complete SC2 without playing the prophesy missions, so it probably didn't influence Raynor.
One of the things that always bugged me is why Zeratul wants to keep Kerrigan alive. Even if after her death the Hybrids control the Zerg and kill the Protoss there's no guaranty that Kerrigan won't do the same thing if they leave her alive. In fact Kerrigan may be worse as she won't kill all the Zerg afterwards.
Unless the Hybrids give the Zerg an advantage that Kerrigan can't give them it's unclear why she's any better than the Hybrids.
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On August 13 2010 22:37 uanime5 wrote:
You can complete SC2 without playing the prophesy missions, so it probably didn't influence Raynor.
Except that the optional Prophecy missions are sort of critical to the story since without knowing the Prophecy everybody gets destroyed in the dark future.
One of the things that always bugged me is why Zeratul wants to keep Kerrigan alive. Even if after her death the Hybrids control the Zerg and kill the Protoss there's no guaranty that Kerrigan won't do the same thing if they leave her alive. In fact Kerrigan may be worse as she won't kill all the Zerg afterwards.
Unless the Hybrids give the Zerg an advantage that Kerrigan can't give them it's unclear why she's any better than the Hybrids.
Did you pay any attention to the Prophecy? "It speaks of one who will ... break the Cycle of the Gods." Obviously that one is Kerrigan and the Cycle is essentially the creation of the Hybrids. Logically Kerrigan > Hybrids.
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The UED are a very fascist and fanatical government, it's quite likely that their technological advancement was stagnated by their system of government and regular purges as they did in the past.
They did observe the Koprulu Sector, so it's quite likely they took whatever information they could to use technology.
All in all it's more likely that Blizzard couldn't be bothered making a whole set of new units.
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EPT
