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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
On June 24 2021 06:04 don_kyuhote wrote: Sweden vs. Ukraine in 2012 was very memorable. Hard to belive it was almost 10 years ago :O As far as I remember it was the last international game as a player for our current headcoach Andriy Shevchenko :D | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On June 24 2021 06:33 Mafe wrote: Unless you count the nations league, apparantly never: https://www.11v11.com/teams/italy/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Portugal/ Why would you not count the Nations League, all countries played pretty seriously in that. Ok, it might not have been worth as much as a Euro/World Cup but I feel you can def count that as a win. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On June 24 2021 06:01 Pandemona wrote: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/B0Gt3jb.png) England making finals after we despatch Germany  It's been a fun-filled group stages so far. More goals and drama than expected. Still, the bracket is pretty imbalanced. Total massacre at the top half. Okay, rant time! Once again, the format really sucks. Third place teams advancing, weird seedings, and arrangement of knockout brackets. It's a shame because the quality gets slightly diluted in the QF and SF. Belgium and Italy must be kicking themselves hard - after topping their groups so convincingly, they get shafted by the formatting quirks. Group F should never have been possible (seedings should consider more factors, such as UEFA Nations or even friendlies, rather than qualifier performance). What if they arrange the knockout rounds based on Swiss fold power matching (placement, points, wins, goal differential, etc.). Here's the ranking of teams after group matches: 1. Italy (1-9) 2. Netherlands (1-9) 3. Belgium (1-9) 4. Sweden (1-7) 5. England (1-7) 6. France (1-5) 7. Austria (2-6) 8. Spain (2-5) 9. Germany (2-4) 10. Croatia (2-4) 11. Wales (2-4) 12. Denmark (2-3) 13. Portugal (3-4) 14. Czech (3-4) 15. Switzerland (3-4) 16. Ukraine (3-3) Bracket would be split evenly from the seedings above (1 and 4 in top, 2 and 3 in bottom). RO16 matchups would look like: Top A. Italy v Ukraine B. Spain v Germany C. Sweden v Portugal D, England v Denmark Bottom E. Netherlands v Switzerland F. Austria v Croatia G. Belgium v Czech H: France v Wales Yes, the bracket is slightly better than the current one (could work out better if the group seedings improved as well). But at least it's based fairly on how well teams fared in the group stages. And at least we avoid ridiculous pairings like Sweden v Ukraine and Wales v Denmark (too weak) and England v Germany and Italy v Austria (too strong). The only imba part in the above hypothetical bracket is the top half with Italy v (Spain v Germany) - but that's only because Spain and Germany underperformed in the group stage (although Germany is slightly excusable for being placed in the Group of Death). | ||
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aseq
Netherlands4024 Posts
The stupid 3rd place raffle now means that the 2teams I predicted to play in the final will meet in the QF already. Bye points! | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On June 24 2021 10:55 aseq wrote: Looks like a more fair draw, but I'm not sure how much your solution still is an improvement when you get rid of 3rd places advancing altogether. One downside is that all the teams will only know where to travel on wednesday night, regardless of whether they have to play on saturday or next tuesday. The stupid 3rd place raffle now means that the 2teams I predicted to play in the final will meet in the QF already. Bye points! If there's only 16 teams like the old Euros, then no need for any complicated power-matchup system. Ukraine getting first seed, sneaking into knockout phase as the 4th best 3rd place team, and getting a favourable R016 matchup and weak bottom bracket is a joke. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
Edit one thing that also annoys me with best of thrid place is that it kinda took away the joy of group of death. With all three teams going through, and the only real effect is that Belgium now have to face Portugal. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6324 Posts
I don't think the difference between the upper and lower bracket is that big and some of it is a consequence of performance. If Spain topped the group instead of Sweden you'd have 4 strong teams in the top (Belgium, France, Portugal, Italy) and 4 at the bottom (Spain, Germany, England, Netherlands) which would be as balanced as you can expect for a tournament. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18480 Posts
On June 24 2021 10:28 RKC wrote: It's been a fun-filled group stages so far. More goals and drama than expected. Still, the bracket is pretty imbalanced. Total massacre at the top half. Okay, rant time! Once again, the format really sucks. Third place teams advancing, weird seedings, and arrangement of knockout brackets. It's a shame because the quality gets slightly diluted in the QF and SF. Belgium and Italy must be kicking themselves hard - after topping their groups so convincingly, they get shafted by the formatting quirks. Group F should never have been possible (seedings should consider more factors, such as UEFA Nations or even friendlies, rather than qualifier performance). What if they arrange the knockout rounds based on Swiss fold power matching (placement, points, wins, goal differential, etc.). Here's the ranking of teams after group matches: 1. Italy (1-9) 2. Netherlands (1-9) 3. Belgium (1-9) 4. Sweden (1-7) 5. England (1-7) 6. France (1-5) 7. Austria (2-6) 8. Spain (2-5) 9. Germany (2-4) 10. Croatia (2-4) 11. Wales (2-4) 12. Denmark (2-3) 13. Portugal (3-4) 14. Czech (3-4) 15. Switzerland (3-4) 16. Ukraine (3-3) Bracket would be split evenly from the seedings above (1 and 4 in top, 2 and 3 in bottom). RO16 matchups would look like: Top A. Italy v Ukraine B. Spain v Germany C. Sweden v Portugal D, England v Denmark Bottom E. Netherlands v Switzerland F. Austria v Croatia G. Belgium v Czech H: France v Wales Yes, the bracket is slightly better than the current one (could work out better if the group seedings improved as well). But at least it's based fairly on how well teams fared in the group stages. And at least we avoid ridiculous pairings like Sweden v Ukraine and Wales v Denmark (too weak) and England v Germany and Italy v Austria (too strong). The only imba part in the above hypothetical bracket is the top half with Italy v (Spain v Germany) - but that's only because Spain and Germany underperformed in the group stage (although Germany is slightly excusable for being placed in the Group of Death). That doesn't take into account who already played one another in the groups. Also, I don't see what it solves at all. You have a strong top part and a weak bottom. You also have one "hard" Ro16 match... and you got lucky with how Sweden overperformed and Portugal underperformed. In theory it's more fair, but in practice I see very little difference, with the extra down side that you can't keep repeat matches from happening immediately without jiggering with that theoretical fairness. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
Also this is a Cup tournament, luck of the draw is part of it. Just need to be either 16 or 32 teams alternativ would be 8 groups of 3 teams. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
- Winners matched up against 2nd or 3rd place by luck of draw - Advancement of 3rd placed teams rather unfair (groups with one clear punching bag is good for all 3 other teams like A, C, E, F - Poland just blew it against Slovakia) It's not so much of how the bracket actually turned out, but how the entire format isn't really fair and balanced as a whole. Why are Group A and D winners fated to meet a 2nd place team no matter how much they wreck their group? Why do the 2nd place teams of Group A, B, D and E get an easier route in RO16 by meeting each other and avoiding group winners? Anyway, the bracket is not that terrible. Just a shame that the top-form teams are forced to meet each other earlier, thus denying more high quality games in total and later in the competition. Maybe the best solution is to introduce group selection and knockout selection like GSL Seriously, knockout selection would be so cool. Captains and coaches having pre-selection interview. Imagine the drama and rage of countries being picked first. Viewership would definitely skyrocket during the ceremony. How is this not a winning commercial proposition, UEFA.... ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED???  | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On June 24 2021 15:47 RKC wrote: 24-team format is always going to be tricky. Ultimately, problem boils down to - Winners matched up against 2nd or 3rd place by luck of draw - Advancement of 3rd placed teams rather unfair (groups with one clear punching bag is good for all 3 other teams like A, C, E, F - Poland just blew it against Slovakia) It's not so much of how the bracket actually turned out, but how the entire format isn't really fair and balanced as a whole. Why are Group A and D winners fated to meet a 2nd place team no matter how much they wreck their group? Why do the 2nd place teams of Group A, B, D and E get an easier route in RO16 by meeting each other and avoiding group winners? Anyway, the bracket is not that terrible. Just a shame that the top-form teams are forced to meet each other earlier, thus denying more high quality games in total and later in the competition. Maybe the best solution is to introduce group selection and knockout selection like GSL Seriously, knockout selection would be so cool. Captains and coaches having pre-selection interview. Imagine the drama and rage of countries being picked first. Viewership would definitely skyrocket during the ceremony. How is this not a winning commercial proposition, UEFA.... ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??? Entertaining and pretty silly. If UEFA is gonna do something that stupid it would probably be that fans could pay to vote on matches they would like to see. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4439 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
On June 24 2021 16:28 DropBear wrote: Surely the fairest way to set up the bracket seeds is a team beer sculling contest Aye, replace penalties for that too. Only way that football can finally come home to England (and set up a truly classic rivalry with Scotland). Then again, maybe 'em Germanic tribes have some tricky tricks up their beards. Cunning buggers. | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4558 Posts
On June 24 2021 16:41 deacon.frost wrote: What's wrong with the play offs? They split the first place finishers so both parts of the play offs have 3 of them. Yes, unfortunately that means that SOME of the first place finishers will meet each other. Duh! Look at the potential quarter finals. Top half might have Italy v Belgium/Portugal and France vs Spain. These are matchups you could see in the semis or grand finals. Meanwhile bottom half will have England/Germany vs Sweden and Netherlands vs Denmark/Wales. One super exciting bracket half and one super snooze. Winner of the tournament will be known on Tuesday 6 July already. Of course we said all the same things in 2016 ... | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7435 Posts
On June 24 2021 06:02 sneakyfox wrote: Also, the four best teams are in the upper part of the bracket: Belgium, Italy, In the lower part the contenders would be England, Fixed it | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On June 24 2021 16:49 RKC wrote: Aye, replace penalties for that too. Only way that football can finally come home to England (and set up a truly classic rivalry with Scotland). Then again, maybe 'em Germanic tribes have some tricky tricks up their beards. Cunning buggers. You guys haven't been listening to Ronaldo Drink Water Also why replace penalties with Beer contest when you can combined the two. Now that would be brilliant. | ||
Poopi
France13023 Posts
The strongest team in there is a weak iteration of Germany :x. We get a relatively easy ro16 match for finishing first but shitty bracket, whereas Germany has a slightly more difficult match but insanely easy bracket. Portugal is rightly penalized at third place though, having to play a good team right away, and in the hell bracket. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4439 Posts
On June 24 2021 16:49 RKC wrote: Aye, replace penalties for that too. Only way that football can finally come home to England (and set up a truly classic rivalry with Scotland). Then again, maybe 'em Germanic tribes have some tricky tricks up their beards. Cunning buggers. It's the Czechs you would have to watch out for | ||
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