EPT2013 - 2014 Football Thread - Page 89
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Influ
Germany780 Posts
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city42
1656 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:37 Liquid`Drone wrote: like, I get what you guys are saying with tottenham wanting to keep him to make top 4. that way it kinda looks like a positive gamble, either bale gets them to CL and then they're more attractive and then potentially they can establish in top 4 (overtaking arsenal, which I guess every spurs fan would find incredibly delightful), or he doesn't and they sell him for almost equally much next year cuz he's just not the type of player that's likely to become worse anytime soon, rather the contrary. the thing is that not letting bale go makes a club like tottenham, if it fails to become a first tier club, much less attractive for first tier talent. there are very good reasons why almost no clubs actually try to hold on to players against their will - even though they usually claim that they're gonna do that (to bring price higher I assume) almost no clubs actually follow through; at least not after the transfer desire has made headlines. So you're saying top tier talent would be more attracted to a selling club playing in the Europa League every season? Perhaps you can tell me who Spurs would bring in to replace Bale then. | ||
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malcram
2752 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:43 city42 wrote: So you're saying top tier talent would be more attracted to a selling club playing in the Europa League every season? Perhaps you can tell me who Spurs would bring in to replace Bale then. I think he meant quite the opposite? | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:42 Influ wrote: Anyone knows if Luiz Gustavo is injured or something? If not than he will certainly leave Bayern probably to Wolfsburg after not playing today. He is not. I wouldnt be unhappy if he went to Wolfsburg. Still mad about the cash Bayern spent on him. | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
What meant is that no top tier talent would join a low tier club that would possibly block a transfer to a top tier club in the future. | ||
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malcram
2752 Posts
Hypothetical situation: If Spurs don't sell Bale. They get top 4. Bale establishes himself to be a Spurs legend. Continues to perform (Spurs continue to perform consistently top4/challenge for title perhaps). Suddenly, no one remembers that they blocked his transfer. And top talents will be attracted to Spurs to challenge for silverware. Spurs board will look like geniuses. Lol...I still think Spurs shouldn't sell. But now that he has expressed his desire to leave, it would make them look like giant douchebags to block the transfer. Players really got a lot of power now eh?  | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:55 malcram wrote: I think we're supposed to look at it within the context of the Bale saga. Hypothetical situation: If Spurs don't sell Bale. They get top 4. Bale establishes himself to be a Spurs legend. Continues to perform (Spurs continue to perform consistently top4/challenge for title perhaps). Suddenly, no one remembers that they blocked his transfer. And top talents will be attracted to Spurs to challenge for silverware. Spurs board will look like geniuses. Lol...I still think Spurs shouldn't sell. But now that he has expressed his desire to leave, it would make them look like giant douchebags to block the transfer. Players really got a lot of power now eh? It is incredibly naive to assume that he will NOT leave at some point, and it will be sooner rather than later even if its not this year. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
No, he's saying that top players won't be attracted to a club that holds onto players against their will. I'm wondering why a selling club with no CL and no realistic chance to win trophies would be more attractive. Players want to win things. If Spurs sell their best players every year, they are announcing to the world that they have no ambition to win anything. Can anyone name an adequate replacement for Bale who would actually go to Spurs if he leaves? | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Bale has to go now, i know you should never let players rule their own lives etc and make themselves bigger than a club. But surely, the stupid money and letting a player go who WANTS TO, everything points to let him go. If Spurs were in the champions league then he would be no question staying because he would have no reason but their not and they are not likely to get it either. | ||
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malcram
2752 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:00 Rebs wrote: It is incredibly naive to assume that he will NOT leave at some point, and it will be sooner rather than later even if its not this year. I agree it is safe to assume that he will leave at some point because he is in Spurs. Sorry Spurs fans, that does sound a little bit insulting. Lol... but that's just where the club is right now. I'm just saying, IF he does stay one more season. And by some miracle they are serious title contenders (top 4 and not like 25+ points away from the no.1 spot). That I feel is a good enough reason to stay on longer. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28929 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:07 city42 wrote: No, he's saying that top players won't be attracted to a club that holds onto players against their will. I'm wondering why a selling club with no CL and no realistic chance to win trophies would be more attractive. Players want to win things. If Spurs sell their best players every year, they are announcing to the world that they have no ambition to win anything. that's a valid point. But the thing is, I don't think spurs is in the market for top players anyway. they're in the market for top unproven talent. with how money is flowing now, there's something like 10 clubs total that are in the market for current top players, and spurs isn't one of them. I think that currently the best spurs can do, is sign great talent, turn them greater and then allow them to leave. I think holding on to bale against his will can either win them a top 4 position which could possibly turn them into more of a powerhouse, OR make them partially lose the position they currently have where they are attractive for top talent. for example, I think ajax and porto and benfica are exceptionally attractive clubs for top tier talent, even though they are not in competition for the CL- I think spurs is in a similar position and I don't think porto benfica or ajax would've maintained their great talent producing position if they had established a history of holding on to their star players 10 years ago. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: that's a valid point. But the thing is, I don't think spurs is in the market for top players anyway. they're in the market for top unproven talent. with how money is flowing now, there's something like 10 clubs total that are in the market for current top players, and spurs isn't one of them. I think that currently the best spurs can do, is sign great talent, turn them greater and then allow them to leave. I think holding on to bale against his will can either win them a top 4 position which could possibly turn them into more of a powerhouse, OR make them partially lose the position they currently have where they are attractive for top talent. for example, I think ajax and porto and benfica are exceptionally attractive clubs for top tier talent, even though they are not in competition for the CL- I think spurs is in a similar position and I don't think porto benfica or ajax would've maintained their great talent producing position if they had established a history of holding on to their star players 10 years ago. I don't disagree with anything you said, but that's the whole problem. Daniel Levy desperately wants to reach that group of 10 clubs you're talking about. The only possible way to get there is by playing in the CL every season and competing for trophies. Can they get there with Bale? Maybe, maybe not. What's for certain is they won't reach it without him. I'm biased as a fan, but I'd rather try to break into that football oligarchy than accept mediocrity and go into every season expecting 6th place and an FA Cup round of 16 exit. edit: Guardian reporting that Spurs will accept €100m + Morata...now THAT is playing hardball! | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
@city42, as a fan myself of a team struggling to keep a hold onto players I feel your pain. But I know keeping players against their will has often turned out worse for my team than better. Btw Morata is a great talent, I hope Spurs land him. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:36 Ysellian wrote: And Bale can read. I'm sure he must be thinking his current club is retarded for not letting him move for such a fee. @city42, as a fan myself of a team struggling to keep a hold onto players I feel your pain. But I know keeping players against their will has often turned out worse for my team than better. Btw Morata is a great talent, I hope Spurs land him. Yeah I understand your perspective. If Bale pulls a Modric and plays poorly after not getting his transfer, keeping him won't be worth anything. It's frustrating being 1 pt away from CL 2 years in a row and losing players as a result. Next year it will be Vertonghen or Paulinho... I do think it's important to remember that this situation is partially Levy's fault. The decision not to pay up for a striker in January will haunt both him and the club for a long time. | ||
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Epx
Switzerland209 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:08 Pandemona wrote: Don't forget like we will see with Lewandowski this season who has been saying in interviews he is pissed at not being allowed to leave this season to Bayern. Keeping a player who isn't giving 100% is very pointless, even more pointless when they know they can leave next season ^_^ he just said he got a few disagreements with the management but he loves the team and his team mates and he will give 100% for his team, that's for sure. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:33 Epx wrote: he just said he got a few disagreements with the management but he loves the team and his team mates and he will give 100% for his team, that's for sure. Yea being upset is water under the bridge for most professionals, he still has to keep his value as a player so its not like he wont be motivated. If he wants to make the upgrade he hasnt gotten he has to be just as good next season otherwise no supposedly more "attractive" team is going to want him. Certainly not Bayern.. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands4025 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: that's a valid point. But the thing is, I don't think spurs is in the market for top players anyway. they're in the market for top unproven talent. with how money is flowing now, there's something like 10 clubs total that are in the market for current top players, and spurs isn't one of them. I think that currently the best spurs can do, is sign great talent, turn them greater and then allow them to leave. I think holding on to bale against his will can either win them a top 4 position which could possibly turn them into more of a powerhouse, OR make them partially lose the position they currently have where they are attractive for top talent. for example, I think ajax and porto and benfica are exceptionally attractive clubs for top tier talent, even though they are not in competition for the CL- I think spurs is in a similar position and I don't think porto benfica or ajax would've maintained their great talent producing position if they had established a history of holding on to their star players 10 years ago. Good point, yet I think Tottenham have a better chance of making that illusive top 10 than the other clubs you mentioned. They're not limited by their national competition (Ajax can take #1 each year and still not progress on a European level), and they're from London, which means they're demographically in a way better spot. If they were to win the EPL next season, there's no doubt they would gain a lot of supporters (some of which at the loss of the other London clubs) and move up that ladder. It might just be the gamble they want to take... | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28929 Posts
 I'm mostly just arguing that there's more at stake than bale's form dropping and his price going from €85 mill to €35 mill. | ||
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EchoZ
Japan5041 Posts
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city42
1656 Posts
On August 01 2013 11:59 EchoZ wrote: So who could Tottenham possibly sign now? With that 85m that's at least 3 world class players in World class players aren't interested in Tottenham unfortunately. They'll buy young talent and invest in the new stadium, but 4th place is now just about impossible. | ||
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