Yeah but i always beleived in what Greame Souness said last year on Sky;
"Attacking players Win you games, whilst Defenders lose you games"
Thus i draw that Defenders are not match winners, they are just match losers. If you have a defender who is really good, but makes 1 mistake, it could be the difference between winning and losing. If 1 striker makes a mistake nothing happens, they carry on and can still score within the 90minutes. A defender cannot make up for his error of a crucial mistake where as an attacker can.
Thus i value defenders as 20-25million a most for a really good one, and no matter who it is i would at least discuss it with the player saying i have had an offer from X club for your services would you like to speak with them or are you happy here. If they want to speak with them then i would let them go quite happily ^_^
I'm with you Pande, we should sell Luiz if they want him that much - provided of course we squeeze a bit more out of them! Plenty of solid defenders around, we just need a back four like Liverpool and then build on the attack. Luiz suits Barca a LOT more than he suits Chels anyway.
You need a solid back four who know their roles and can offer something going forward on the flanks. A back four like Liverpool's is exactly what we need. I would rather bring in a Kompany-like, Ferdinand-like or Terry-like defender who is tactically astute and covers well than a showman who attempts a few too many long balls to strikers rather than making simple passes to the midfield.
Indeed when you have JT Ivanovic Cahill Kalas as a squad back 4, with Chalobah and Nathan Ake learning their trades your not really forced to keep anyone as you have plenty of back up. Of course Luiz might want to stay with us and not go to Barca but i would atleast ask him if he wants to talk with them if the rumors of £30+ million bid is on the table
What a negative way of looking at it haha, but he's certainly right. However I do want to point out that the value of an attacker's mistake is diminished be how good your defense is, having a great defense won't win you games but it will certainly make it easier to do so and Barcelona have certainly learned that lesson last year.
On August 07 2013 23:31 Pandemona wrote: Yeah but i always beleived in what Greame Souness said last year on Sky;
"Attacking players Win you games, whilst Defenders lose you games"
Thus i draw that Defenders are not match winners, they are just match losers. If you have a defender who is really good, but makes 1 mistake, it could be the difference between winning and losing. If 1 striker makes a mistake nothing happens, they carry on and can still score within the 90minutes. A defender cannot make up for his error of a crucial mistake where as an attacker can.
Thus i value defenders as 20-25million a most for a really good one, and no matter who it is i would at least discuss it with the player saying i have had an offer from X club for your services would you like to speak with them or are you happy here. If they want to speak with them then i would let them go quite happily ^_^
You cannot really compare "mistakes" between strikers and defenders, can you? Not shooting a goal obviously isnt as bad as making a crucial mistake that leads to a goal.
I think you explain the importance of a defender pretty well in the bold part. A striker has lots of chances, but a defender cannot mess up once.
Striker are just worth more because they create more hype , fan attention and shirt sales.
Especially coming from a Chelsea fan, I expected more.
On August 07 2013 21:44 AIOL! wrote: Bad news for newcastle, Remy instead of Gomis is not a good trade, the only reason this guy has been hyped is that he looks like T Henry. And 8M for Gomis was a good price imo. nufc definitly loves average french players, i don't know what they are doing.
You seem to contain a lot of hate towards Newcastle. Why is that?
Because they take all the french players from the french league and play them in England xD Lille/Nice etc teams like that get raped by Newcastle xD
Haha, they take all the overpriced average french players teams want to sell while there is hype around. The only player worth more than the price was Cabaye. I don't hate them, i even kinda support them since all those french are there, but i'm not blind, when you buy gouffran, Sissoko and Remy don't expect to have higher goals than staying in PL.
There is so much better non overhyped players that are here in Ligue 1... don't know what they are doing.
On August 07 2013 23:31 Pandemona wrote: Yeah but i always beleived in what Greame Souness said last year on Sky;
"Attacking players Win you games, whilst Defenders lose you games"
Thus i draw that Defenders are not match winners, they are just match losers. If you have a defender who is really good, but makes 1 mistake, it could be the difference between winning and losing. If 1 striker makes a mistake nothing happens, they carry on and can still score within the 90minutes. A defender cannot make up for his error of a crucial mistake where as an attacker can.
Thus i value defenders as 20-25million a most for a really good one, and no matter who it is i would at least discuss it with the player saying i have had an offer from X club for your services would you like to speak with them or are you happy here. If they want to speak with them then i would let them go quite happily ^_^
You cannot really compare "mistakes" between strikers and defenders, can you? Not shooting a goal obviously isnt as bad as making a crucial mistake that leads to a goal.
I think you explain the importance of a defender pretty well in the bold part. A striker has lots of chances, but a defender cannot mess up once.
Striker are just worth more because they create more hype , fan attention and shirt sales.
Especially coming from a Chelsea fan, I expected more.
<3
No doubt defence is absolutely vital, they are very important, but they don't *win* games. Chelsea in the first Mou period were very solid at the back but also had amazingly incisive strikers and the ability to sting on the break. It's all about not having starlets and prima-donnas in the back 4. The back 4 should be a bunch of blue collar workers, the front 3 should be hollywood.
On August 07 2013 23:31 Pandemona wrote: Yeah but i always beleived in what Greame Souness said last year on Sky;
"Attacking players Win you games, whilst Defenders lose you games"
Thus i draw that Defenders are not match winners, they are just match losers. If you have a defender who is really good, but makes 1 mistake, it could be the difference between winning and losing. If 1 striker makes a mistake nothing happens, they carry on and can still score within the 90minutes. A defender cannot make up for his error of a crucial mistake where as an attacker can.
Thus i value defenders as 20-25million a most for a really good one, and no matter who it is i would at least discuss it with the player saying i have had an offer from X club for your services would you like to speak with them or are you happy here. If they want to speak with them then i would let them go quite happily ^_^
You cannot really compare "mistakes" between strikers and defenders, can you? Not shooting a goal obviously isnt as bad as making a crucial mistake that leads to a goal.
I think you explain the importance of a defender pretty well in the bold part. A striker has lots of chances, but a defender cannot mess up once.
Striker are just worth more because they create more hype , fan attention and shirt sales.
Especially coming from a Chelsea fan, I expected more.
<3
Yes but we didn't win the Champions league by being "awesome defenders" we won the champions league from finding goals at important moments. Drogba goal at home vs Barca Drogba goal 80th minute in Munich etc they won us the games not our defense DOING THERE JOBS defending xD
I agree defenders are important but always the people who win you games are attacking players. Or if not name me someone who doesn't play "offensively" that is a "match winner" or in the category to do so.
Also no a striker isn't worth more because of hype etc, they are worth more because they win games. Signing Falcao and Cavani is due to "hype" it is due to them scoring week in week out against any opposition in front of them, thats what makes them worth the money they are.
Bale again is a match winner, which the potential to be even better.
On August 07 2013 23:31 Pandemona wrote: Yeah but i always beleived in what Greame Souness said last year on Sky;
"Attacking players Win you games, whilst Defenders lose you games"
Thus i draw that Defenders are not match winners, they are just match losers. If you have a defender who is really good, but makes 1 mistake, it could be the difference between winning and losing. If 1 striker makes a mistake nothing happens, they carry on and can still score within the 90minutes. A defender cannot make up for his error of a crucial mistake where as an attacker can.
Thus i value defenders as 20-25million a most for a really good one, and no matter who it is i would at least discuss it with the player saying i have had an offer from X club for your services would you like to speak with them or are you happy here. If they want to speak with them then i would let them go quite happily ^_^
You cannot really compare "mistakes" between strikers and defenders, can you? Not shooting a goal obviously isnt as bad as making a crucial mistake that leads to a goal.
I think you explain the importance of a defender pretty well in the bold part. A striker has lots of chances, but a defender cannot mess up once.
Striker are just worth more because they create more hype , fan attention and shirt sales.
Especially coming from a Chelsea fan, I expected more.
<3
Yes but we didn't win the Champions league by being "awesome defenders" we won the champions league from finding goals at important moments. Drogba goal at home vs Barca Drogba goal 80th minute in Munich etc they won us the games not our defense DOING THERE JOBS defending xD
I agree defenders are important but always the people who win you games are attacking players. Or if not name me someone who doesn't play "offensively" that is a "match winner" or in the category to do so.
You won the champions league by getting lucky If only van Buyten could put the ball in an open net and not panic :p PS Hummels is worth 30m+ easily! :D
In my opinion defenders are verry important when it comes to teams that play possession football high on the pitch. A lot of 1v1 situations happen, pace is required... You need complete players, pacefull, skillfull, strong in the air, tactically smart...
There are not that many with such a profile. In my opinion a young player like Varane is a good exemple of that kinf of "new" complete defender. He has everything. A defender with all those attributes is worth the price of a good striker because this is so rare.
On August 07 2013 23:31 Pandemona wrote: Yeah but i always beleived in what Greame Souness said last year on Sky;
"Attacking players Win you games, whilst Defenders lose you games"
Thus i draw that Defenders are not match winners, they are just match losers. If you have a defender who is really good, but makes 1 mistake, it could be the difference between winning and losing. If 1 striker makes a mistake nothing happens, they carry on and can still score within the 90minutes. A defender cannot make up for his error of a crucial mistake where as an attacker can.
Thus i value defenders as 20-25million a most for a really good one, and no matter who it is i would at least discuss it with the player saying i have had an offer from X club for your services would you like to speak with them or are you happy here. If they want to speak with them then i would let them go quite happily ^_^
You cannot really compare "mistakes" between strikers and defenders, can you? Not shooting a goal obviously isnt as bad as making a crucial mistake that leads to a goal.
I think you explain the importance of a defender pretty well in the bold part. A striker has lots of chances, but a defender cannot mess up once.
Striker are just worth more because they create more hype , fan attention and shirt sales.
Especially coming from a Chelsea fan, I expected more.
<3
Yes but we didn't win the Champions league by being "awesome defenders" we won the champions league from finding goals at important moments. Drogba goal at home vs Barca Drogba goal 80th minute in Munich etc they won us the games not our defense DOING THERE JOBS defending xD
I agree defenders are important but always the people who win you games are attacking players. Or if not name me someone who doesn't play "offensively" that is a "match winner" or in the category to do so.
lol, yes wou won the champions league by being awesome defenders. The same way Greece won the Euro by being awesome defenders. When your defends fails one or two goals often times do not win you the game. Drogbas goal would have been worthless if Bayern would have been able to overcome your defense. Chelsea at that period was the prime example of a club which uses a great defense to win games.
You won the champions league by getting lucky If only van Buyten could put the ball in an open net and not panic :p PS Hummels is worth 30m+ easily! :D
Considering the crucial mistakes Hummels made throughout the last season, he´s definitely not worth 30m+.
Without question that is true. Varane is awesome, pace and good ability to score (ON SET PLAYS!!) but i wouldn't say there worth anywhere over 30million. I can honestly say i think Real would sell Varane if someone bit 30million for him lol
Yeah we have to agree to disagree. I for one believe that a single outstanding defender who helps organize and position his fellow defenders while being a beast himself is definitely worth the investment because while they don't win you games they do make it easier to do so.
@ Pandemona, Real Madrid once bought Pepe for 25 mil. No way are they letting Varane go for 30.
edit: As for marketing however, that is something I would have to agree with. Unless you are Maldini, marketing defenders has always been rather difficult.
Was €s but i accept that. I just think like Souness (who was a midfielder) that it's down to strikers to win games and defenders to make sure they do not lose one.
Oh well, was a good discussion :D
@ AIOL!
Yeah i agree, he is awesome i said that from when i saw him day one in his first game. Looked great, any defender with pace (Like Gallas for example) was great for getting people out of trouble. Carvalho was also under rated in that aspect too, lots of Chelsea fans will always tell you Carvalho was the reason JT was as good as he is as JT knew if he made one mistake and was out of position a bit Carvalho would be racing back to bail him out with his pace.
Varane should and will be good. Has proved it with the games he played in. Didn't look bad against Bayern at all and nor did he fuck up against Barca. Best two tests a defender could have in football at this moment in time i think.
On August 08 2013 00:08 Pandemona wrote: Without question that is true. Varane is awesome, pace and good ability to score (ON SET PLAYS!!) but i wouldn't say there worth anywhere over 30million. I can honestly say i think Real would sell Varane if someone bit 30million for him lol
i didn't say Varane is worth 30M, i said he had the attributes and the potential to ba that modern complete defender. But to worth that price you must prove, with multiple good seasons at verry high level and with trophees. But Varane has the potential to be one of the best in the world, no doubt about it.
EPT
If only van Buyten could put the ball in an open net and not panic :p PS Hummels is worth 30m+ easily! :D
