General nutrition recommendations - Page 31

On August 24 2012 23:53 AoN.DimSum wrote:
lol hahahaha.

Actually I think Robb wolf did go over this and I forgot. I'll look into it. Thanks eshlow!

On August 25 2012 00:17 Hanakurena wrote:
Robb Wolf hahaha.

On August 25 2012 06:25 Nymphaceae wrote:
I am so confused. Those questions were common lifestyle questions. FYI, the new weightloss drugs are focusing on increasing your motivation to work out, instead of just letting you lose weight by diet pills.

On August 25 2012 08:08 eshlow wrote:


Bring some science or go away. You're just making yourself look like an idiot.

On August 25 2012 21:15 Hanakurena wrote:



All bow down to the cult of eshlow.

User was warned for this post

On August 26 2012 02:11 Gendi2545 wrote:


Perhaps it's better to respectfully disagree? I disagree with most of what's posted on this thread but that's no reason to insult people.

On August 26 2012 03:30 eshlow wrote:


I actually agree with most of what you posted on Page 28, except the fact that vegetables and meats aren't necessary.

Vegetables are indeed nutritious, but they do have their share of anti-nutrients (for example, like stuff in brocolli that can cause hypothyroidism), but everything in general moderation tends to be OK. Our colons have indeed shortened because meat, fish (especially from grass fed, or wild sources) are extremely nutrient dense and very healthy for humans, but we can still digest vegetables fairly well and extra tons of nutrients from them, but one vegetable eaten too much can indeed be harmful.

I'm not sure why you consider vegetables harmful to the colon especially the fiber from what I've seen is very helpful.

Various species of bacteria that reside within the colon can metabolize fiber into butyrate, which exerts anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer properties.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12740065

Chronic inflammation is one of the hallmarks of the diseases of civilizations that contribute to the anti-absorption of nutrients in the colon, heart disease, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, neurodegernative disorders, etc so the fact that vegetables have some counter-effects on that makes them beneficial in moderation

Meat, like fish, is extremely nutritious for humans if not grain fed.

Much of the world still can't process dairy, though it seems fine for those that can. Grains I agree are very harmful, especially the genetically modified short wheat variant that they have nowadays compared to the different strains they had a couple thousand years ago.

Oh and cooking makes things more bioavailable so I dunno why you like raw.

I guess eliminating meat and vegetables totally is a big deviation from what is normally considered healthy, ehh..

On August 26 2012 05:13 Nymphaceae wrote:


I don't see why you're criticizing genetically modified grains.

On August 26 2012 08:01 eshlow wrote:


GMO wheat contains more gluten and other grain proteins which tend to increase allergic and auto-immune responses in the body as well as increase permeability of the intestines.

also, celiac disease is on the rise too.

On August 26 2012 09:14 Nymphaceae wrote:

What about the nutrient deprived people? There are lots of people who don't have the money to afford something better. This at least provides for more nutrition to them.

Not sure what you mean by increase permeability to the intestines? Are you talking about ion flow or what here? I'm kind of confused by this, since your body usually counterbalances this effect, and certain foods also counterbalance it within the intestines, if it's what I think you might be trying to say.

Celiac disease is also harder to identify if some one goes on a gluten-free diet before being diagnosed. Are there lots of people on tl.net with the disease in this thread?

On August 26 2012 10:02 eshlow wrote:


Nutrient deprived people... in the US? Wheat and other grains are devoid of nurients compared to fruits and vegetables which is why they actually "enrich" grain products with B vitamins. You definitely should not be looking to grains to provide you any significant vitamins, lol.

If you're talking about in Africa that's a whole other story about shipping/train/etc costs and infrastructure.

Intestinal permeability is a somewhat pathological symptom(s) that the intestines show in various diseases including what is listened in the first link that both impair digestion (absorption of nutrients affecting multiple systems in the body) and the intestines themselves.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=intestinal permeability autoimmune

Celiac, crohn's, IBS, ulcerative colitis, etc. all have pathological symptoms of increased gut permeability, and as you can see in the above scholar link there's things such type 1 diabetes linkages to that too.

In fact, the association with increased gut permeability with gluten / wheat gliadin is very strong...

Just google scholar or pubmed glute/gliadin and any chronic neurodegenerative disease like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, MS and you'll see for yourself that the footprints from wheat, the gut, and the brain are there too.

In any case, humans are by far not adapted to grains in general (only about ~5k years of agriculture though a bit longer for some cultures like the Chinese, as opposed to about 80-100k years of homo sapien evolution), especially wheat and would do best to avoid having it in their diet especially if it's significantly negatively affecting quality of life.

Although traditional preparation of grains with soaking tend to be far superior if you are going to eat them.

Refined/processed grains like bread, pasta, cereal as are good as just stuffing your face full of sugar and a huge detriment on health.

Whole grains are a bit more debatable but still generally they're in the foods above which is not a great source of nutrition comparitive to fruits and vegetables.

Anyway, there's more sources of this information in the OP I believe and the Paleo thread. People just choose to ignore science because they like eating grains.

I can't blame them... grains are addictive because they have opioid-like proteins in them which stimulate pleasure. Who would want to give that up right?

https://www.google.com/search?q=grains opioids

On August 26 2012 03:30 eshlow wrote:


I actually agree with most of what you posted on Page 28, except the fact that vegetables and meats aren't necessary.

Vegetables are indeed nutritious, but they do have their share of anti-nutrients (for example, like stuff in brocolli that can cause hypothyroidism), but everything in general moderation tends to be OK. Our colons have indeed shortened because meat, fish (especially from grass fed, or wild sources) are extremely nutrient dense and very healthy for humans, but we can still digest vegetables fairly well and extra tons of nutrients from them, but one vegetable eaten too much can indeed be harmful.

I'm not sure why you consider vegetables harmful to the colon especially the fiber from what I've seen is very helpful.

Various species of bacteria that reside within the colon can metabolize fiber into butyrate, which exerts anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer properties.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12740065

Chronic inflammation is one of the hallmarks of the diseases of civilizations that contribute to the anti-absorption of nutrients in the colon, heart disease, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, neurodegernative disorders, etc so the fact that vegetables have some counter-effects on that makes them beneficial in moderation

Meat, like fish, is extremely nutritious for humans if not grain fed.

Much of the world still can't process dairy, though it seems fine for those that can. Grains I agree are very harmful, especially the genetically modified short wheat variant that they have nowadays compared to the different strains they had a couple thousand years ago.

Oh and cooking makes things more bioavailable so I dunno why you like raw.

I guess eliminating meat and vegetables totally is a big deviation from what is normally considered healthy, ehh..

On August 26 2012 11:25 Nymphaceae wrote:

Some people can't eat fruits and vegetables, so they have to get their nutrition from other things. I wouldn't just say Africa, because there are places in Asia and South America, where they are nutrient deprived.

I'm not sure if you're trolling about food becoming too addicting. There are some foods that can be a lot more addicting than opium too. If you're more of interested in the small proteins that don't matter too much in food, then I would recommend you to check out tomatine, and pepper. Tomatine is good for preventing muscle loss in muscular dystrophy patients, but it also works with working out. Pepper contains something, in which it stimulates amino acid uptake in the colon.

When you were saying greater permeability, I'm assuming that you're talking about leaky bowel syndrome. This is more of a less concentrated intestinal wall, so larger molecules can pass through, which usually shouldn't. Obviously this can cause major complications, but when you say that this can be related to all those diseases, there are more ways to get it than just wheat. You can even get greater intestinal permeability from sitting in a hot tub (not trolling).

You can relate intestinal permeability disorders to almost any other disorder. It's like the blood brain barrier, because when it's weak, there's a higher risk of some major problems, in which some can kill you.

I don't think wheat is that bad for you, you just need to moderate it. You know you can relate fruits to causing diabetes, GH imbalances, chronic fatigue, dental decay, and many more things. I'm pretty sure that fruits have a lot more sugar in them than pasta.

On August 26 2012 17:41 Gendi2545 wrote:


These are the main things that I have problems with:

1) Eating to excess (i.e. when not hungry) to gain muscle.

If the body is overloaded with food, it struggles to digest it properly, especially if the food is not part of a natural human diet. Not only does this mean you don't gain the full nutrition from the food, it also tires you out as the body needs to direct more energy to digestion/detoxification. When your body needs food it will let you know.

2) Eating anything other than (raw) fruit, egg yolks, fish, nuts and healthy oils.

Processed foods (protein shakes, pasta, anything cooked) and many raw foods are not a natural part of human diet and contain harmful/adulterated substances. The natural human diet is perfectly sufficient for developing strong muscles and losing weight (think gorillas/chimps/Hunza tribe).


Vegetables:

They're unneccessary and somewhat harmful. This was a surprise to me too, but it makes sense when you think about it. Wild humans obviously much prefer sweet fruits to raw, unsweet beetroot, lettuce, cauliflower etc., so they aren't really a food humans are designed to digest.

"There is not a single nutrient in vegetables or cereals that fruits do not contain." (Source)

"One of the other amazing realizations is that we do not need to eat vegetables, grains and/or beans. They contain substances which inhibit digestion and/or are toxic." (Source)

I'm not disputing that some fibre is good, but the right amount of fibre we need is found in fruits and other parts of a proper diet. Vegetables have too much of it. Too much fibre ages the colon and actually encourages cancer over time (Source)

Cooking does make things more bioavailable in some cases, breaking cell walls and converting starch to sugar or whatever, but it also creates harmful substances (Source), destroys many fragile nutrients and allows humans to eat things that they are not designed to eat, with consequent problems. Why not just eat things that taste great raw?

In short my argument would be this:

Humans are naturally powerful, healthy and long-lived on a natural diet (see e.g. Hunza), it all goes to hell when they start eating processed and unnatural foods (Hunzas later on) so it's always best to eat a natural diet, i.e. whatever tastes good raw (fruit, sashimi etc.).

On August 26 2012 21:16 eshlow wrote:


Let's put it this way; there are more people allergic to grains than fruits and vegetables (and there's a huge variety in fruits and vegetables) and fruits and vegetables on a whole are more nutritious as well.

I'm semi-joking about opioids and wheat, but the fact that people ardently defend wheat when the evidence is staring them in the face is pretty condemning on that front.

Yes, intestinal wall permeability is leaky gut, and it's very strongly correlated with grain proteins if you look at the literature.

Wow...Fruits do not have more sugar than them in pasta/cereals/etc. Pasta et al are very calorie dense refined carbohydrates.

100g of pasta is around 75g of refined carbohydrates that are metabolized to sugars (remember, all starches are broken down into glucose in the body anyway). 100g of fruit like an apple is 14g sugar. Huuuge difference.

Anyways, I strongly recommend you to look up the different types of sugars, and look at how they affect the body during anabolism and catabolism. Be ready to do a lot of math, because you'll need some advanced math and statistics, as well as a good background in chemistry.

Even though something may look right, it can still be completely wrong, and even though you can't prove something, it doesn't mean it's not right. Good luck with your nutrition.

On August 27 2012 09:43 eshlow wrote:
Why are you talking about low carb diets? That's not even anything remotely near the issues we are talking about.



lol, ok.........?

I have a degree in biochemistry, brah. I'm pretty sure I know my metabolic pathways, even though that wasn't something we were discussing in the first place.