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General nutrition recommendations - Page 30

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Hanakurena
Profile Joined August 2012
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 06:46:55
August 22 2012 06:35 GMT
#581
Paleo is a money making fad. People get rich off promoting paleo diet because people like to be told their bad habits are good habits.
All famous people advocating paleo are overweight themselves. Some of them are even dying of heart disease. And every single study done on it shows it is bad for your health.

Eshlow promotes paleo diet and bad science so for he he has zero credibility. By definition, because of the errors it makes paelo diet is inherently pseudo-science. The idea that you can look at the diet of 'cavemen' and figure out what is our healthy natural diet is wrong. The reasoning that this is because of evolution is also wrong. And then what paleo diet says these people actually ate is wrong as well.

Eliminate all allergens but not dairy? Sure, binge on dairy fat all day but skip potato and grains.


Yeah he would win a debate anyway because here he has already manipulated everyone in believing him. This forum should be called 'cult of Eshlow'.
It's pretty funny that he claims the consensus in nutritional science is the opposite of what it is. An amazing claim to make.

I don't make an appeal to authority. I point to scientists that one can google or youtube, have actual results with their patents and have those results published in the big journals.

You post no science. You cherry pick controversial results from studies that are likely wrong. Well, keep enjoying the lard, bacon and eggs with coffee breakfast. But don't forget to take your whey powder. You need that stuff when you want to be an athlete. Too little protein otherwise eventhough you barely eat vegetables, Yeah, vegetables are also paleo, but who wants to eat that shit? Just eat donuts instead. Yeah, it's not a paleo food but a paleo diet is still a paleo diet even if it contains a few 'cheat foods'. As long as those aren't whole grain bread or potato though since they make you fat since cavemen didnt cultivate them. Oh and beans make you fart. Too much fiber. Our caveman intestines aren't used to that. Better eat some ice cream, well if you aren't lactose intolerant. Oh and take your vitamin D since you work at the office 8-5 and you rarely come outside since you spend all your free time in the gym squatting.


Paleo diet is basically Atkins diet with caveman mythology. Now Atkins diet was completely refuted and labeled not just bad but dangerous by nutritional science.

And the reason people are seeing results is because their previous diet was worse that the paleo diet. Paleo diet and SAD diet are very similar, but removing the many processed foods does help a lot. So they are not the same.


Paleo diet would be a lot better if it promoted eating unlimited fruits and vegetables, ignoring the silly and arbitrarily potato and grain stuff. (better eat dairy, even though it's not paleo either, it is allowed in paleo. Can't make money off a diet that tells you you can't eat 99% of the snacks you love like cookies, donuts, etc)
Then some fish, very lean meat and nuts in moderation, making up only a small part of the total calorie intake. That would be healthy.

But go check out what paleo advocates actually eat.
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15328 Posts
August 22 2012 06:53 GMT
#582
Please stop. You can disagree all you like, but post sources and don't make stuff up. Nobody in this forum ever suggested to skip on fruits and vegetables.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
SoleSteeler
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada5431 Posts
August 22 2012 07:21 GMT
#583
Man now i really want a donut.
rEiGN~
Profile Joined September 2010
369 Posts
August 22 2012 08:15 GMT
#584
came from the store just now, going to make silverhydra's meat slop
TL.net Stream Viewer Count http://goo.gl/ahf1E
kastoob
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia153 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 10:36:07
August 22 2012 10:08 GMT
#585
^ That silverhydra site look cool :D

What is with people making horrible straw men these days? :/
http://paleodietlifestyle.com/place-of-dairy-on-paleo-diet/
Some quotes: "I personally don’t like the idea of consuming whey protein as a protein supplement instead of real food,"
"we’ve seen that we don’t reject neolithic foods solely on the basis that caveman didn’t have them, but prefer to have evidence as to the health effects of our food choices."

edit: I'm just sick of seeing guys just parrots out dated public opinion as truth and then waltz over to a community that questions that paradigm and uses logical fallacies for no other reason to argue.
Do they actually believe we're suddenly going to be all like 'oh yea that fats really are bad all along because some guy arbitrarily claims so despite the fact that the stickies have a massive wall of text in a spoiler which goes in to depth detail about how saturated fats really aren't bad for you as well as link to many studies that support this argument'
Bring some research to back up what you say and a cohesive, logical argument and don't throw a tantrum when we rebut.
Hanakurena
Profile Joined August 2012
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 11:55:52
August 22 2012 11:49 GMT
#586
If you take stickies over science while putting your health on the line, you are kinda fucked.

That stuff about dairy just strengthens my case and confirms what I said. Dairy is neither 'paleo' nur healthy and on top of that it is an allegic. Yet paleo people are perfectly fine with consuming a lot of it? Why? Because you can make money off telling people that their bad habits are fine.
That they even start talking about whey powder is just sad.

There will never be a fad diet saying you need to eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. Never. No money in that plus we already know.

Please stop giving nutrition advice. People's lives depend on it.


Ooh and since you all seemed to have just crawled out of a cave:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_fiber#Effects_of_fiber_intake

No fringe, biased or conspiracy theory sites needed. No need to cherry pick specific research papers.


Anyway, we can just look at the diets of peoples around the world. We have Americans with their high fat low fiber SAD diets. Then we have populations that were studied that have diets way lower in fat and animal protein.
Some of you probably know some of these studies but reject them for personal reasons and convenience. But that doesn't make them less true. Cardiovascular disease and diabetes are caused by the SAD diet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_pattern_diet
Zafrumi
Profile Joined June 2009
Switzerland1272 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 11:57:22
August 22 2012 11:55 GMT
#587
I probably eat more vegetables than a lot of vegetarians what with their tofu and meat-replacement stuff...

edit: since you brought up wikipedia maybe you should read a little further: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat_and_cardiovascular_disease_controversy

Whether saturated fat is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease (CVD) is a question with numerous controversial views.[1] Although there is a scientific consensus in the mainstream heart-health, government, and medical communities that saturated fat is a risk factor for CVD,[citation needed][dubious – discuss] recent studies have produced conflicting results and notable authors have given opposing viewpoints.


anyway, wikipedia isnt really a scientific source.
"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general" -Mark Rippetoe
Hanakurena
Profile Joined August 2012
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 12:02:59
August 22 2012 12:01 GMT
#588
Yeah and pro paleo money making sites are. It says right there it is the scientific consensus that they do. You dispute that consensus? I don't dispute there are fringe movements that dispute the claim and that there are studies that have confusing results. But both are to be expected.
I couldn't think of a more clear and unbiased site than wikipedia. Linking to cherry picked studies does nothing. Linking to doctors explaining what they believe is the consensus and them talking about their own results and opinions is 'appeal to autority'.

So why act like the evidence isn't there? You really think whole grains and potatos cause SAD health problems? And not the oil in the French Fries, the copious amounts of meat and cheese, and the butter-overflowering sugar coated snacks.


If you just choose to ignore all this info anyway then when your vains are being clogged up and your heart is malfunctioning, just remember that I told you.
Zafrumi
Profile Joined June 2009
Switzerland1272 Posts
August 22 2012 12:21 GMT
#589
well, you appeal to authority as well if you say we have to believe it because its the consensus. what if the consensus is wrong?
and since you like wikipedia so much, there is a "[citation needed][dubious – discuss]" so maybe it ISNT the consensus anymore?

its hard to argue against you when you just ignore every study with the argument that it is cherry-picked :/ there are tons of studies on the saturated fat issue in the OP, including meta studies.

also, no one ever suggested that eating butter-overflowing sugar coated snacks is good for you, nor that you shouldnt eat as many fruits and vegetables as you like (except for one person I believe who said too much fiber will kill you). so I think we can agree the main debate is about meat, or rather the fat in meat. and as I already said there are tons of studies on saturated fat in the OP, but just in case you missed it here it is:

+ Show Spoiler +
One of the most important analysis of dietary guidelines of the past decades came out last year in Nutritional Journal covering a wide range of topics including saturated fats. This analysis specifically looked at the dietary recommendations for Americans even as the obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, etc. rates continue to rise massively in the US and in most industrialized countries.

Let's go back to the beginning.

There are two main hypotheses to describe the development of cardiovascular disease (among other factors). These are the lipid hypothesis and the chronic endothelial injury hypothesis. Currently, the lipid hypothesis predominates the medical industry; however, as stated in the above analysis of the data there is evidence that may show that it is based, at least partially, on incorrect science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_endothelial_injury_hypothesis

One recent movie, Fat head, looked at exploring the origins of why the lipid hypothesis is supposedly based on faulty science. A bit more on that here:

+ Show Spoiler +

Having looked into the science, I personally do not support the lipid hypothesis and I will detail information later regarding saturated fatty acids and cholesterol later with studies to support why it is likely incorrect.

Let's take a step back.

So what do saturated fats do in the body? What does cholesterol do in the body?

Saturated Fat

There are multiple sources of dietary fatty acids. Lauric acid (12), Myristic acid (14), Palmitic acid (16), and Stearic acid (18) are some of the most common. The only difference between these fatty acids are how many carbons are in the chain length, but as we shall see each of these have different effects on the body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauric_acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myristic_acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmitic_acid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stearic_acid

Short chain triglycerides I'm going to briefly mention since we have little control over intake of them (as our gut bacteria produces them). However, if you have had issues with digestive problems, food poisoning, and anti-biotics where your gut flora has been decimated it may be a good idea to invest in some good probiotics. In particular, Butyric acid (4 carbon) saturated fatty acid is produced by several gut flora species and has favorable effects on our metabolism and protects against cancer.

Medium chain triglycerides (particular 6-12 carbon fatty acids) of which Lauric acid (12) is an example are extremely beneficial for health. Coconut oil and other coconut products contain a lot of MCTs specifically Lauric acid (66%). MCTs are useful for a variety of reasoning including weight loss -- increases oxidation of fatty acids, increases HDL-cholesterol (e.g. the "good" one), anti-bacterial, anti-oxidant, and is anti-inflammatory.

Most types of animal products have some combination of the long chain triglycerides which include the aforementioned Myristic acid, Palmitic acid, and Stearic acid. Each of these have slightly different effects on the body.

All excess energy in the body is specifically converted into palmitic acid, which will make up the majority of the "triglycerides" that you see in a blood panel. Fructose sugar in particular, is a toxin in the body. When it enters the body through the digestive tract, the liver must convert it into a usable form of energy. The energy form that it is converted into palmitic acid -- a saturated fatty acid.


Cholesterol

Cholesterol is a very, very, very important substance in the body. Cholesterol is in every cell of the body and helps to maintain the fluidity of the cell membranes, and regulation of substances passing through them. Additionally, it is intimately involved in nervous system regulation and makes up a large portion of the myelin sheath that speeds up nerve conduction in the body. Additionally, cholesterol is the backbone on which steroid hormones such as testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, etc. are created, and it is also a precursor to vitamin D as sun is required to photo-convert 7-dehydro-cholesterol into proto-vitamin D. Cholesterol is utilized in the adrenal glands to make cortisol and aldolsterone which help regulate fight-or-flight response, and sodium content in the body. Also, cholesterol is converted in the liver into bile salts which the gallbladder emits to help emulsify fatty acids and absorb many of the fat soluble vitamins -- A, E, D, K -- from dietary sources.

The transport of...

Since cholesterol is a hydrophobic substance, it cannot be transported in the body as it would stick to the vessel walls. Thus, the body creates HDL and LDL which are are lipoproteins (e.g. high density lipoprotein and low density lipoprotein) to transport cholesterol in the blood stream. Lipoproteins are composed of fat and protein. The "fatty" part binds to cholesterol so it can carry it, and the protein portion of it is hydrophilic so it can be dissolved into the blood until it gets to where the body needs it.

HDL carries cholesterol back to the liver, LDL carries cholesterol away from the liver to other tissues.


Lipid panels

So let's talk lipid panels.

When you see LDL and HDL in a blood panel it refers to how much LDL there is, and how much HDL there is.

--------------------

Total cholesterol level -- total cholesterol is technically a misnomer since it is a summation of all of the components of lipids in the blood sample (e.g. what a typical blood stream of someone looks like it). It isn't just total "cholesterol" which would just be a summation of HDL and LDL.

Triglyceride level -- triglycerides represent the amount of fatty acids -- palmitic acid mostly -- that is circulating in your blood stream. Triglycerides are the primary source of energy in the body, especially during aerobic exercise. Glucose is only primarily utilized at anaerobic threshold or above.

HDL cholesterol -- represents the amount of HDL in the body.

LDL cholesterol -- represents the amount of LDL in the body. There's actually lots of different subclasses of LDL proteins which a typical lipid panel won't show. Specifically, oxidized LDL (oLDL) or specifically Apolipoprotein B (or ApoB for short) is extremely strongly correlated with the development of cardiovascular disease. Apo B is sometimes referred to as small, dense LDL.

Therefore, you may have high LDL, but if you have a lot of "fluffier" LDL you are at a relatively low risk for cardiovascular disease. If you have low LDL but a lot of the "small, dense" oLDL / ApoB then you are at high risk for CVD. This is why it is important to get LDL subclasses checked even though most doctor's don't know this.... LDL matters little if you don't know if you have the big, fluffy or the small, dense.

There's actually three other classes of lipoproteins that carry fats in the body. Chylomicrons carry triglycerides from the digestive tract into the body. VLDL (very low density lipoprotein) and IDL (intermediate density lipoprotein) also carry fatty acids, but typically these aren't measured.

--------------------

Why are these supposed to be bad?

HDL, LDL, Cholesterol, triglycerdies, etc are neither "good" or "bad." They are needed in the body for various purposes. Only when they get out of whack does it means something is wrong.

According to the lipid hypothesis, high triglycerides and high LDL and low HDL are supposed to contribute towards heart disease.

Picture of atherosclerotic development
+ Show Spoiler +

The development of atherosclerotic lesions show increased fatty accumulations including cholesterol filtrates at the site of the lesion. Sounds correct, right?

Therefore, if you can prove that if high dietary fat intake -- especially saturated fats -- (1) raises blood lipids and (2) increases rates of atherosclerosis then it would be a cause and effect relationship.

Is it cause and effect? Or is it something else.

The chronic endothelial dysfunction theory better fits the data, especially in conjunction with nutritional studies regarding low carbohydrate versus low fat diets. It's funny but every time I browse the literature, there are only good results from low carbohydrate (which include "high fat" and "high protein") diets as opposed to low fat diets.

For example, this mayoclinic study says:

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/78/11/1331.full.pdf
Effect of a High Saturated Fat and No-Starch Diet on Serum Lipid Subfractions in Patients With Documented Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease

• Results: In patients with atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, mean ± SD total body weight (TBW) decreased 5.2%±2.5% (P<.001) as did body fat percentage (P=.02). Nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopic analysis of lipids showed decreases in total triglycerides (P<.001), very low-density lipoprotein (VLDL) triglycerides (P<.001), VLDL size (P<.001), large VLDL concentration (P<.001), and medium VLDL concentration (P<.001). High-density lipoprotein (HDL) and LDL concentrations were unchanged, but HDL size (P=.01) and LDL size (P=.02) increased. Patients with polycystic ovary syndrome lost 14.3%±20.3% of TBW (P=.008) and patients with reactive hypoglycemia lost 19.9%±8.7% of TBW (P<.001) at 24 and 52 weeks, respectively, without adverse effects on serum lipids.


Lipid panels improved on almost every measurable and patients lost weight on a high fat no starch diet. And they had cardiovascular disease. So basically, this diet improved their cardiovascular disease.

Take for example, this non-biased search boolean on low carbohydrate vs. low fat:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=low carbohydrate low fat

The first study suggests:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637

Severely obese subjects with a high prevalence of diabetes or the metabolic syndrome lost more weight during six months on a carbohydrate-restricted diet than on a calorie- and fat-restricted diet, with a relative improvement in insulin sensitivity and triglyceride levels, even after adjustment for the amount of weight lost.

This finding should be interpreted with caution, given the small magnitude of overall and between-group differences in weight loss in these markedly obese subjects and the short duration of the study. Future studies evaluating long-term cardiovascular outcomes are needed before a carbohydrate-restricted diet can be endorsed.


Of course, they ended with the cautioning, but there are many other studies.

The second study suggests:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/88/4/1617.full?l=5579341

The very low carbohydrate diet group lost more weight (8.5 ± 1.0 vs. 3.9 ± 1.0 kg; P < 0.001) and more body fat (4.8 ± 0.67 vs. 2.0 ± 0.75 kg; P < 0.01) than the low fat diet group. Mean levels of blood pressure, lipids, fasting glucose, and insulin were within normal ranges in both groups at baseline. Although all of these parameters improved over the course of the study, there were no differences observed between the two diet groups at 3 or 6 months. β- Hydroxybutyrate increased significantly in the very low carbohydrate group at 3 months (P = 0.001). Based on these data, a very low carbohydrate diet is more effective than a low fat diet for short-term weight loss and, over 6 months, is not associated with deleterious effects on important cardiovascular risk factors in healthy women.


So they are similar.... oh wait, but hey we didn't look at the study's methods.

Subjects were randomized to 6 months of either an ad libitum very low carbohydrate diet or a calorie-restricted diet with 30% of the calories as fat.


So the low carbohydrate high fat diet did just as well as a calorie restricted lower fat diet. Why didn't they restrict kcals for the high fat diet too? Wouldn't that make a difference as well?

The third study suggests:
http://www.annals.org/content/140/10/769.short

Results: A greater proportion of the low-carbohydrate diet group than the low-fat diet group completed the study (76% vs. 57%; P = 0.02). At 24 weeks, weight loss was greater in the low-carbohydrate diet group than in the low-fat diet group (mean change, −12.9% vs. −6.7%; P < 0.001). Patients in both groups lost substantially more fat mass (change, −9.4 kg with the low-carbohydrate diet vs. −4.8 kg with the low-fat diet) than fat-free mass (change, −3.3 kg vs. −2.4 kg, respectively). Compared with recipients of the low-fat diet, recipients of the low-carbohydrate diet had greater decreases in serum triglyceride levels (change, −0.84 mmol/L vs. −0.31 mmol/L [−74.2 mg/dL vs. −27.9 mg/dL]; P = 0.004) and greater increases in high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (0.14 mmol/L vs. −0.04 mmol/L [5.5 mg/dL vs. −1.6 mg/dL]; P < 0.001). Changes in low-density lipoprotein cholesterol level did not differ statistically (0.04 mmol/L [1.6 mg/dL] with the low-carbohydrate diet and −0.19 mmol/L [−7.4 mg/dL] with the low-fat diet; P = 0.2). Minor adverse effects were more frequent in the low-carbohydrate diet group.


So higher retention rate with low carbohydrate. Check. Greater weight loss with low carbohydrate. Check. Low carb decreased serum triglycerides more. Check. Low carb diet increases HDL more. Check. Not sure what the minor adverse effects were, but they sure weren't big enough to have the retention rate go down more than the other group.

So I checked to at least 20 of the top results and low carbohydrate is at least equally or more effective than low fat diets (when compared) at both losing weight and on markers of cardiovascular disease risk. Check them out if you don't believe me.

Meta studies such at this one show similar findings.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2008.00518.x/full

There are few studies comparing the effects of low-carbohydrate/high-protein diets with low-fat/high-carbohydrate diets for obesity and cardiovascular disease risk. This systematic review focuses on randomized controlled trials of low-carbohydrate diets compared with low-fat/low-calorie diets. Studies conducted in adult populations with mean or median body mass index of ≥28 kg m−2 were included. Thirteen electronic databases were searched and randomized controlled trials from January 2000 to March 2007 were evaluated. Trials were included if they lasted at least 6 months and assessed the weight-loss effects of low-carbohydrate diets against low-fat/low-calorie diets. For each study, data were abstracted and checked by two researchers prior to electronic data entry. The computer program Review Manager 4.2.2 was used for the data analysis. Thirteen articles met the inclusion criteria. There were significant differences between the groups for weight, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, triacylglycerols and systolic blood pressure, favouring the low-carbohydrate diet. There was a higher attrition rate in the low-fat compared with the low-carbohydrate groups suggesting a patient preference for a low-carbohydrate/high-protein approach as opposed to the Public Health preference of a low-fat/high-carbohydrate diet. Evidence from this systematic review demonstrates that low-carbohydrate/high-protein diets are more effective at 6 months and are as effective, if not more, as low-fat diets in reducing weight and cardiovascular disease risk up to 1 year. More evidence and longer-term studies are needed to assess the long-term cardiovascular benefits from the weight loss achieved using these diets.


Honestly, how much data do you need to accumulate to prove that "high fat" diets do not cause cardiovascular disease. Saturated fat, and cholesterol don't cause cardiovascular disease.

So going back to specifically something like eggs which have a bunch of cholesterol and fat in them:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22037012
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20683785
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18991244
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21776466
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19369056
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21134328
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15164336
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18991244
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203890
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17531457
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16340654

The evidence vindicates saturated fats risk on heart disease.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-dietary-saturated-fat-increase.html
http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract
http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/5/1175.full.pdf html <-- decreased risk in post menopausal women with increased sat fat intake
http://healthydietsandscience.blogspot.com/2011/03/high-saturated-fat-diet-gives.html
http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com/content/78/11/1331.full.pdf
etc.

In the same line this is why whole milk is healthier than skim milk:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dairy-fat-and-diabetes.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16904009
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20372173
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17925824
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11350992

Another interesting article that was ahead of its time:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002934396004561

So I hate to beat the drum on things I've already covered but the lipid hypothesis really does not make sense when you look at the literature.

When you find studies that support the role of fats in the development in cardiovascular disease and look at some of the specifics of the diet they ate they usually contain large amounts processed fats such as trans fats (which are notoriously bad for you).

This is to say that NORMAL sources of fats and oils such as animal fats, eggs, milk, butter, etc. are good for you. Industrial processed fats such as margarine, deep fried foods, vegetable oils, etc. in general are bad for you.

So what actually causes cardiovascular disease if it's not saturated fats and cholesterol?

Remember what I said before about lipid profiles?

They indicate something is wrong but they don't indicate what is wrong. The lipid hypothesis takes the incorrect step of saying that the lipids themselves cause the problems.

So that leaves us with the chronic endothelial injury hypothesis.

What likely happens is multifold.

1. Dietary effects of high carbohydrate diets (especially fructose) lead to increases in oxidized LDL. Oxidized LDL can get "stuck" in the endothelial wall which aggravates the tissues. The body sends macrophages to help try to clean up the damage. Inflammation results and the chain reaction continues.

2. Ingestion of large amounts of carbohydrates (especially fructose) lead to increases in advanced glycated end products. Fructose is 9x more likely than glucose to form AGE's by the way.

3. Trans fats.

4. Omega 3 vs Omega 6 fatty acids. Normal ancestral consumption in about 1:1 or 1:2 ratio. Normal consumption now is in 10:1 to 20:1 or higher ratios, especially in fried foods.

5. Dysregulation/dysfunction of the body's systems.

Leptin resistance contibutes to obesity. High carbohydrate/sugar intake contributes to metabolic syndrome and weight gain. All of these contribute to insulin resistance. Insulin resistance starts to contribute to dyslipedemia. You get obese, diabetes, high blood pressure, poor lipid panels. Then you get cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose#Health_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-alcoholic_fatty_liver_disease
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_syndrome

If you are obese or have documented cardiovascular disease et al. you should know that some of the disease can be reversed to an extent with a low carbohydrate, ketogenic, or Paleolithic diet.
"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general" -Mark Rippetoe
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15328 Posts
August 22 2012 12:48 GMT
#590
Hanakurena: You seem to just assume a mountain of ridiculousness just because you heard the word paleo somewhere.

- Dairy, specifically milk has been suggested for people who have trouble gaining weight. Completely independent of any one word diet, and always with the note that you should only have dairy if you can manage it.

- Pretty much everyone here recommends eating fruits and vegetables.

- Pretty much everyone here recommends cutting refined foods and sugar, so I don't know why you bring up "the oil in the French Fries, the copious amounts of meat and cheese, and the butter-overflowering sugar coated snacks".

- Pretty much everyone here recommends eating real, natural food over anything processed.

- Pretty much everyone here recommends actual food over supplements.

- Pretty much everyone here recommends protein for strength training, and a variety of protein sources.

Do you really disagree with these points? Because that is what us "paleo nutjobs" are talking about 90% of the time.

If you want to talk about risks and benefits of fat consumption please focus on that, and leave any mention of "paleo" or whatever one word diet out of it.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
AoN.DimSum
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2983 Posts
August 22 2012 14:48 GMT
#591
Just ignore him guys, there is no use arguing. From the way he types, he is probably a vegan.
by my idol krokkis : "U better hope Finland wont have WCG next year and that I wont gain shitloads of skill, cause then I will wash ur mouth with soap, little man."
Snuggles
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1865 Posts
August 22 2012 15:24 GMT
#592
Hey with IF does it matter at all when my eating period is? Like I'm doing 18/6 right now and I want to stick my eating period in the evening to late evenings. Will it all work out even if I ate my calories just a few hours before I slept or should I just sleep fasted?
Sneakyz
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden2361 Posts
August 22 2012 16:19 GMT
#593
If you can go all day without eating that's probably fine, nothing wrong with eating before bed.
http://www.simplyshredded.com/carbs-at-night-fat-loss-killer-or-imaginary-boogeyman.html
I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15328 Posts
August 22 2012 17:47 GMT
#594
On August 23 2012 00:24 Snuggles wrote:
Hey with IF does it matter at all when my eating period is? Like I'm doing 18/6 right now and I want to stick my eating period in the evening to late evenings. Will it all work out even if I ate my calories just a few hours before I slept or should I just sleep fasted?

I think that is exactly the rhythm Leangains proposes. You should be good.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Ingenol
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1328 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 18:54:32
August 22 2012 18:54 GMT
#595
Leangains is actually 16/8, but 18/6 is probably fine if it works for you.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
August 23 2012 01:06 GMT
#596
lol all I see are straw man arguments
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
AoN.DimSum
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2983 Posts
August 23 2012 02:48 GMT
#597
when getting a checkup, what should i test for? I really want to know my Vit D levels. Also i should check b12 and magnesium? what would you test for?
by my idol krokkis : "U better hope Finland wont have WCG next year and that I wont gain shitloads of skill, cause then I will wash ur mouth with soap, little man."
Nymphaceae
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States350 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 02:09:05
August 24 2012 02:07 GMT
#598
On August 23 2012 11:48 AoN.DimSum wrote:
when getting a checkup, what should i test for? I really want to know my Vit D levels. Also i should check b12 and magnesium? what would you test for?

How old are you?
Do you ever find yourself feeling paranoid?
Do you have problems sleeping at night?
Does your blood take longer to clot than usual?
Do you ever feel depressed or have mood swings?
Does your skin glow (not like jaundice, however you spell it)?
Do your teeth feel good?
Do you find yourself having problems concentrating too little?
Do you find yourself concentrating too hard?
Does your eye sight go bad after you eat or drink, if so, after which meals or drinks?
Do you feel nauseated?
Do you find yourself having a shortness of breath?
When you pee, is it very bubbly, dark, or bloody?
You can just imagine the next question, I don't feel like typing it, but you should still answer it.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
August 24 2012 11:31 GMT
#599
lol what in the heck is that....

Dimsum = good markers to check for are C reactive protein (measure of inflammation), make sure you get the lipid panel with the fractionation that tells you the size of your HDL/LDL/etc because LDL numbers don't matter if you don't know what size they are. ApoB (aka small dense LDL) is the one that is the heart disease risk, yet it gets grouped in with ApoA (large and fluffy) as a measure of risk.

Ummm, there's a couple more you can ask for as measures of inflammation as well if you wanted.

Vitamin D is also good, can't think of anything else off hand.

You might want to search some of Robb Wolf's stuff and see what he recommends.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
AoN.DimSum
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2983 Posts
August 24 2012 14:53 GMT
#600
lol hahahaha.

Actually I think Robb wolf did go over this and I forgot. I'll look into it. Thanks eshlow!
by my idol krokkis : "U better hope Finland wont have WCG next year and that I wont gain shitloads of skill, cause then I will wash ur mouth with soap, little man."
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