EPTI am noticing my body changing from working out and eating very clean but this IF thing is kinda attractive if it really works and directly just uses my body fat for energy instead of the food I take in. Immediately I was afraid about starvation mode but the eating period counters that right?
General nutrition recommendations - Page 29
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
I am noticing my body changing from working out and eating very clean but this IF thing is kinda attractive if it really works and directly just uses my body fat for energy instead of the food I take in. Immediately I was afraid about starvation mode but the eating period counters that right? | ||
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rEiGN~
369 Posts
something like -30%/10% on the other hand will put you on a weekly deficit and you should "burn fat", with the expense of your gains, so with deficit you should be happy to keep any strength you can. if the notation was unclear, -20%/20% you eat -20% of your TDEE on rest days, and +20% on workout days. assuming your TDEE was 2200kcal which i guess is about right for someone who has a desk job and lifts three times a week, you would eat 0.8x2200kcal on rest days and 1.2x2200kcal on workout days. | ||
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Catch
United States616 Posts
As for me, I am on a recomp (-20%/+20%) right now. I still have six more weeks to go, so you'll have to wait for the before/after pictures. But so far my lifts have been going up, and I've been improving my body image just like they say you will. I'm sure once I see the before/after pictures side by side it will be far more impressive. If you have more questions, ask away and I'll try and answer :D | ||
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
Thanks for the info again guys. With this new info I can try IF and not over eat on rest days lol. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
And I ate around 1K of Calories of other things today. That's 2K, hopefully I'm not overeating or anything....  | ||
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Nymphaceae
United States350 Posts
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On August 19 2012 11:17 Nymphaceae wrote: If you want recipes for steroids, just PM me. Wat? | ||
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rEiGN~
369 Posts
On August 19 2012 09:14 Snuggles wrote: Oh god if only I knew about the -20% on rest day's sooner... I basically ate like a pig on rest days jesus christ. I don't want to lose any strength at all so I'll stay away from the -30%/10%, I didn't think eating so little on rest days would actually hinder your gains even if you have fat to burn. Thanks for the info again guys. With this new info I can try IF and not over eat on rest days lol. it does and even -20% isn't optimal for gains, some people do something called "lean bulk" as well which has a slight weekly calorie surplus | ||
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Gendi2545
South Africa50 Posts
Well it's there if anyone wants it and it works fine for me. Also the sources used in the Waiworld link are mostly from the National Library of Medicine (pubmed), not exactly pseudoscience. | ||
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rEiGN~
369 Posts
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Hanakurena
105 Posts
In theory you can get fat on eating kale and bananas, but only in theory. It never happens. People get fat from eating foods high in animal protein or high in fat. So meat, dairy and vegetable oil. Secondarily fish and then the nuts, fruits and seeds very high in fat (peanuts, advocado, olive, etc). The 'you need to gain fat to gain muscle' aka 'you need a calorie surprlus to gain muscle', which are obviously equivalentt statements, are really annoying because these myths are so prevailant online. Muscle need protein to recover. But having a calorie deficit never enters the picture. I am really worried about people here 'eating like a pig' on diets very high in either fat or animal protein, probably both. Yes, they are young now and they are probably working out. But what if you have a similar diet being sedentary and getting over 50. Such a lifestyle may kill you and we have people here promoting it for the sake of some mythical 'strength gain'. You gain muscle very slowly and diet plays a very minor role. It's all about training hard and resting harder. No alcohol, early nights every day. That's how you maximize your results, not by eating fat and animal protein in excess. Also, if you fill your stomach with a ton of leavy vegetables and lay off entirely on any food that has more than 35% of it's calories from fat, you aren't going to be going hungry and end up binching eventually. Most people don't have the mind power to defeat the big beast that is hunger. If you limit yourself to truly healthy foods you are going to be challenged to get all your calories even when eating without contraints. So no need for fasting or calorie counting which on the long term are not sustainable. But in fact there are many people that very rarely get most of their calories from foods that are very low in fat. And that's why they are fat themselves. Also, before you get into strength training and muscle gain, get a solid cardio basis first. Strength training does absolutely nothing for your health without cardio. Also don't forget that all fats are bad for your arteries. It doesn't matter if it is olive oil or fish oil. Every drop of oil puts stress on the tissue covering the inside of the arteries. It may not matter much today, but you better already get into that healthy lifestyle before you get to the risk age. Especially when you come from a culture that does really bad in this respect (All western lifestyles). So don't ruin a healthy vegetable meal by using olive oil. | ||
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Nymphaceae
United States350 Posts
Yep, They're very hard to identify too, because they're often confused with other substances (similar to poppy seeds). | ||
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Zafrumi
Switzerland1272 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:47 Hanakurena wrote: That's not what he said. He said "just eat as much healthy food as you want." which is correct, as long as you keep in mind what food is really healthy and what is not. Basically the only foods that can truly be eaten in excess are only those that are very low in fat and very high in fiber and water. I'd say that foods you can eat in excess without any health risks are a good definition of a 'healthy food'. but the guy you are defending actually said that foods high in fiber are unhealthy. you see where i'm going with this? everyone has different notions about what is healthy food. On August 20 2012 00:47 Hanakurena wrote: In theory you can get fat on eating kale and bananas, but only in theory. It never happens. People get fat from eating foods high in animal protein or high in fat. So meat, dairy and vegetable oil. Secondarily fish and then the nuts, fruits and seeds very high in fat (peanuts, advocado, olive, etc). people get fat from eating donuts and twinkies. processed foods and trans-fats are the number one cause of obesity. animal protein is fine. On August 20 2012 00:47 Hanakurena wrote: The 'you need to gain fat to gain muscle' aka 'you need a calorie surprlus to gain muscle', which are obviously equivalentt statements, are really annoying because these myths are so prevailant online. Muscle need protein to recover. But having a calorie deficit never enters the picture. I am really worried about people here 'eating like a pig' on diets very high in either fat or animal protein, probably both. Yes, they are young now and they are probably working out. But what if you have a similar diet being sedentary and getting over 50. Such a lifestyle may kill you and we have people here promoting it for the sake of some mythical 'strength gain'. You gain muscle very slowly and diet plays a very minor role. It's all about training hard and resting harder. No alcohol, early nights every day. That's how you maximize your results, not by eating fat and animal protein in excess. obviously you need more food when you are working out than when you have a sedentary lifestyle. when you are over 50 you have difficulty gaining strength for a whole range of other reasons than not eating enough (like lower testosterone etc). On August 20 2012 00:47 Hanakurena wrote: Also, if you fill your stomach with a ton of leavy vegetables and lay off entirely on any food that has more than 35% of it's calories from fat, you aren't going to be going hungry and end up binching eventually. Most people don't have the mind power to defeat the big beast that is hunger. If you limit yourself to truly healthy foods you are going to be challenged to get all your calories even when eating without contraints. So no need for fasting or calorie counting which on the long term are not sustainable. But in fact there are many people that very rarely get most of their calories from foods that are very low in fat. And that's why they are fat themselves. again, the problem is that not everyone agrees on what "healthy foods" are. some science says that animal protein and saturated fat is fine, some says its not. its really hard to know for sure so everyone has to know what works best for themselves. thats my opinion at least. On August 20 2012 00:47 Hanakurena wrote: Also, before you get into strength training and muscle gain, get a solid cardio basis first. Strength training does absolutely nothing for your health without cardio. i'm sorry but thats just incorrect. you get a good amount of cardio from strength training. and if you disagree you obviously have never done a set of really heavy deadlifts. On August 20 2012 00:47 Hanakurena wrote: Also don't forget that all fats are bad for your arteries. It doesn't matter if it is olive oil or fish oil. Every drop of oil puts stress on the tissue covering the inside of the arteries. It may not matter much today, but you better already get into that healthy lifestyle before you get to the risk age. Especially when you come from a culture that does really bad in this respect (All western lifestyles). So don't ruin a healthy vegetable meal by using olive oil. sigh... not going to go too much into this, but have you ever heard of "essential fatty acids" ? as the name already suggests, they are essentiel for our body cannot produce them itself. how are those fats bad? On August 20 2012 02:15 Nymphaceae wrote: Yep, They're very hard to identify too, because they're often confused with other substances (similar to poppy seeds). erm... ban maybe? | ||
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Hanakurena
105 Posts
On August 20 2012 03:47 Zafrumi wrote: but the guy you are defending actually said that foods high in fiber are unhealthy. you see where i'm going with this? everyone has different notions about what is healthy food. Yeah but that guy is silly. We both know what science says are healthy foods. people get fat from eating donuts and twinkies. processed foods and trans-fats are the number one cause of obesity. animal protein is fine. You can't get animal protein without getting the fat. Donuts are fat because of animal fat. Fat percentages of even the leanest meats are quite quite high. On August 20 2012 00:47 Hanakurena wrote: obviously you need more food when you are working out than when you have a sedentary lifestyle. when you are over 50 you have difficulty gaining strength for a whole range of other reasons than not eating enough (like lower testosterone etc). On the long term this is true. But if you have fat to burn then you don't need to eat more. Also, if you have the protein needed to repair the muscles in your diet already, you don't need to eat more. again, the problem is that not everyone agrees on what "healthy foods" are. some science says that animal protein and saturated fat is fine, some says its not. its really hard to know for sure so everyone has to know what works best for themselves. thats my opinion at least. Not sure if you are conceding the point you are responding to or not, but let me respond to what you say here. I don't think anyone claims that satured fat is fine. The debate, if there is any, is about if unsatured fat and animal protein are fine when consumed in moderation. Obviously a not perfect diet is not a problem for most of us on TL. But the debate should be about what is theoretically the best and what we should recommend to people suffering from diet-caused cardiovascular disease. Also, I think your second point is very poor. We have only one body. We don't have the luxury to try out different diets. No reason to put your body at risk when you can just listen to what the science says. Also, I don't see how you can figure out what 'works best for you'. So you can't risk it and even if you could, it doesn't work anyway. i'm sorry but thats just incorrect. you get a good amount of cardio from strength training. and if you disagree you obviously have never done a set of really heavy deadlifts. It does elevate heart rate and some forms of lifts do so very much. But that is only for very short amounts of time and is therefore bad cardio. It is great for the anerobic system but does very little for the aerobic system and cardiovascular health. You need an elevated heart rate for 30 minutes straight each day. Shortbursts with recovery periods that also work a lot of small muscles are bad cardio. sigh... not going to go too much into this, but have you ever heard of "essential fatty acids" ? as the name already suggests, they are essentiel for our body cannot produce them itself. how are those fats bad? Just because they are essential in one part of the body doesn't mean they are healthy for all others. How many people die each year from deficiency in fatty acids? And how many of cardiovascular disease? It's pretty clear about which one to worry most. Also, plants still have fats in them, including fatty acids. Best source of fatty acids are flax seeds. And one gram of these fats a day amounts to only 9 kcal of this type of foods, which is very little when considering what foods should make up your calorie intake. Sounds pretty silly to me to consume a very large part of your diet through fat, when it is recommended to do otherwise, because you need 9kcal worth of fatty acids. | ||
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Gatored
United States679 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:47 Hanakurena wrote: Also, before you get into strength training and muscle gain, get a solid cardio basis first. Strength training does absolutely nothing for your health without cardio. Also don't forget that all fats are bad for your arteries. It doesn't matter if it is olive oil or fish oil. Every drop of oil puts stress on the tissue covering the inside of the arteries. It may not matter much today, but you better already get into that healthy lifestyle before you get to the risk age. Especially when you come from a culture that does really bad in this respect (All western lifestyles). So don't ruin a healthy vegetable meal by using olive oil. [Citation needed] | ||
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AoN.DimSum
United States2983 Posts
There are vegetables that are problematic to some people like nightshades and FODMAPs but I doubt fiber has anything to do with it. Hanakurena, why don't you post some studies on why saturated fat and animal protein is bad. Eshlow has shown numerou studies on why saturated fat and animal protein are good for us | ||
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Gendi2545
South Africa50 Posts
On August 20 2012 03:47 Zafrumi wrote: but the guy you are defending actually said that foods high in fiber are unhealthy. you see where i'm going with this? everyone has different notions about what is healthy food. Yes, and this is the problem. Proper nutrition is a science, not an art. Excessive fibre is either good for you or it isn’t, and research shows that it isn't. Eating more fibre than is natural has consequences, both now and in old age. It’s the same thing with the question of meat, processed foods, supplements etc. Proper nutrition is important and very relevant here because if you eat a good diet then your body will automatically become healthy, strong and move closer to a perfect weight, and vice versa. The question then is what proper nutrition is, and the links I posted on pg 28 seem to pretty much settle the case. On August 20 2012 06:03 AoN.DimSum wrote: Gendi, do you read Weston A Price foundation material? Seems like you would like it. There are vegetables that are problematic to some people like nightshades and FODMAPs but I doubt fiber has anything to do with it. Hanakurena, why don't you post some studies on why saturated fat and animal protein is bad. Eshlow has shown numerou studies on why saturated fat and animal protein are good for us I've heard of it a few times so I checked it out. It's the usual mix of good info with bad. For example, do we really need a lot of butter in our diets when it's not a food available to humans in the wild? I'm not trying to shoot you down, I spent years wandering around decent but flawed sites like that before finally settling on what seems to be the truth. | ||
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Hanakurena
105 Posts
If you avoid eating foods high in fiber you will go hungry and binch on foods high in calories and fat. As a result you will become fat as you age and be at higher risk of diabetes, cardiovascular disease (and probably also cancer). We all like our cheese, peanuts, olive oil, butter and meat. Eating them is not the problem. Eating low calorie, high fiber, high water content vegetables is. Eshlow has zero credibility. That satured fat is bad is universally accepted and if you wanted you´d already have seen the evidence. People like Dr. Barnard, Dr. Esselstyn and Dr. McDougall are examples of people that do both the research and have a media profile making a case that have diet-induced diseases can be partially cured if they go on a low fat high fiber diet. But even you guys already accept that (except for that crazy guy haha' is the healthiest diet. The only question is if high fat foods should be eaten in moderation or not at all to get the best results. Spinach, not donuts. It´s not that hard. People can have intolerance or allergic reactions to a lot of things. Those people obviously need to avoid those foods but that doesn´t mean people who are complete non-responders also have to. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
But I posted the science which has credibility. You have posted no science. "People like Dr. Barnard, Dr. Esselstyn and Dr. McDougall" = appeal to authority. I would like you to tell me how people got healthier, lost weighted, improved serum lipids, etc. by eating 15% saturated fats, along with 3-4 eggs per day in this study and they HAVE documented heart disease: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14601690 They should've been keeling over and dying. The fact is that refined carbohydrates and wheat are more responsible for systemic inflammation which will lead to heart disease, diabetes, metabolic syndrome, neurodegenerative disorders, etc. It's all right there in the literature for people to see. There's a good reason why Paleo diet is not a fad and will never go away and will actually get more popular and become mainstream as time goes on. Anyway screw this I'm not getting into some random debate on the Internet againwhich I would just win anyway. Waste of time. There's a reason why my posts are stickied and yours are not. That's cause I use science and logic. Eat only real foods -- fruits, vegetables, meat, fish, eggs, nuts, seeds, maybe dairy if you ain't allergic. Eliminate all allergens. Easy enough. | ||
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AoN.DimSum
United States2983 Posts
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