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On July 20 2020 02:03 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:02 Andi_Goldberger wrote:
tfw you go to a family event and we get a non ZvZ final, maybe I need to stop following DreamHack events :D your real family is in this LR thread 
<3
On July 20 2020 02:04 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:02 Andi_Goldberger wrote:
tfw you go to a family event and we get a non ZvZ final, maybe I need to stop following DreamHack events up until the semifinal:D i missed serral - ty and maru - cure due to family event yesterday 
well with Serral- TY you didnt miss much, but I would definitely catch up on Maru vs Cure, sick TvT
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On July 20 2020 02:06 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:03 TaKeTV wrote:On July 20 2020 02:02 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:57 stilt wrote:On July 20 2020 01:54 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 20 2020 01:43 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
I mean 5 doesn't matter, not only is this an online tournament, it's at best a special event, which is the type many Kongs have won. Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys  There are a lot of HSC tho. The 20th and the one who ended with Parting vs Flash have a strong signification for me at least. (and Taeja' streak was still amazing regardless of the importance of the tourney) Don't get me wrong I love the events, it's probably the best entertainment sc2 has going for it. I just don't feel like they offer much in terms of reputation or legacy to the players. Starleagues/proleague come first, then bllizzcon/katowice, then the smaller yet still stacked weekenders, then events like HSCs. At least for me. Thats why I never spoke too highly of player like Taeja compared to most of the foreign community. rating smaller weekenders above HSC... check the lineup, check the format. By small weekenders I mean like IEM or Super Tournaments/kespa cups etc. Not many events can compete with HSC in terms of format sure (I actually really wish more of them adopted the larger groups and double elim brackets), but in terms of lineup I'm really not sure HSC has the upper hand there.
HSC20: Serral, Reynor, Clem, Bunny, Cure, INnoVation, PartinG, Stats, Trap, Zest, SpeCial, TIME; Taeja, Solar, soO, .... and a hell lot of European pros.
I think that easily beats most lineups by itself? Sorry hits a nerve when people make HSC sound like a 2nd tier tour when the lineup most of the time is top-notch and the format harder / more fair. D:
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On July 20 2020 02:06 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:04 Elentos wrote:On July 20 2020 02:03 TaKeTV wrote:On July 20 2020 02:02 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:57 stilt wrote:On July 20 2020 01:54 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:
[quote]
Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys There are a lot of HSC tho. The 20th and the one who ended with Parting vs Flash have a strong signification for me at least. (and Taeja' streak was still amazing regardless of the importance of the tourney) Don't get me wrong I love the events, it's probably the best entertainment sc2 has going for it. I just don't feel like they offer much in terms of reputation or legacy to the players. Starleagues/proleague come first, then bllizzcon/katowice, then the smaller yet still stacked weekenders, then events like HSCs. At least for me. Thats why I never spoke too highly of player like Taeja compared to most of the foreign community. rating smaller weekenders above HSC... check the lineup, check the format. I think by smaller weekenders Fango meant Dreamhacks and non-Katowice IEMs. Even Dreamhacks are a lot worse in terms of lineup mostly since they do not include top koreans (excluding the 2020 online edition) Well not HSC is equally stacked either. The best lineups are great. But that's not the only reason people watch HSC so it can be forgiven if there's weaker players in there.
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On July 20 2020 02:08 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:06 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 02:03 TaKeTV wrote:On July 20 2020 02:02 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:57 stilt wrote:On July 20 2020 01:54 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:
[quote]
Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys There are a lot of HSC tho. The 20th and the one who ended with Parting vs Flash have a strong signification for me at least. (and Taeja' streak was still amazing regardless of the importance of the tourney) Don't get me wrong I love the events, it's probably the best entertainment sc2 has going for it. I just don't feel like they offer much in terms of reputation or legacy to the players. Starleagues/proleague come first, then bllizzcon/katowice, then the smaller yet still stacked weekenders, then events like HSCs. At least for me. Thats why I never spoke too highly of player like Taeja compared to most of the foreign community. rating smaller weekenders above HSC... check the lineup, check the format. By small weekenders I mean like IEM or Super Tournaments/kespa cups etc. Not many events can compete with HSC in terms of format sure (I actually really wish more of them adopted the larger groups and double elim brackets), but in terms of lineup I'm really not sure HSC has the upper hand there. HSC20: Serral, Reynor, Clem, Bunny, Cure, INnoVation, PartinG, Stats, Trap, Zest, SpeCial, TIME; Taeja, Solar, soO, .... and a hell lot of European pros. I think that easily beats most lineups by itself? Sorry hits a nerve when people make HSC sound like a 2nd tier tour when the lineup most of the time is top-notch and the format harder / more fair. D:
HSC is kinda gsl vs the world tier for me personally (just a better format imo).
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On July 20 2020 02:05 Alucen-Will- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:02 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:57 stilt wrote:On July 20 2020 01:54 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 20 2020 01:43 Elentos wrote:On July 20 2020 01:41 Morbidius wrote:
Lets see what Trap is fighting against in the finals:
1. He is playing his worst matchup.
2. He is playing an imbalanced matchup.
3. He playing as the race that gets affected more by the high ping.
4. He's against the best(?) Zerg in the world.
5. He is a natural kong. I mean 5 doesn't matter, not only is this an online tournament, it's at best a special event, which is the type many Kongs have won. Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys There are a lot of HSC tho. The 20th and the one who ended with Parting vs Flash have a strong signification for me at least. (and Taeja' streak was still amazing regardless of the importance of the tourney) Don't get me wrong I love the events, it's probably the best entertainment sc2 has going for it. I just don't feel like they offer much in terms of reputation or legacy to the players. Starleagues/proleague come first, then bllizzcon/katowice, then the smaller yet still stacked weekenders, then events like HSCs. At least for me. Thats why I never spoke too highly of player like Taeja compared to most of the foreign community. Its always been fair to think this way in my opinion. The idea that back in the 2014-15 era that you could compare weekend tournaments to the Kespa players starleagues/gsl victories was and still is kind of a joke. Korean elitists were only elitists about the quality of starcraft. Not really for any unjustifiable reason that others were annoyed by
Well no they weren’t, there was lots of amazing, high level Starcraft played at all sorts of weekend tournaments that was discounted with mental gymnastics.
That’s what was annoying. Plus a lack of respect for the skillset needed to perform well in a marathon weekender.
Doesn’t mean Starleagues aren’t the pinnacle of the game either, just got fucking annoying when TaeJa kept beating stacked fields and ‘oh well they don’t care about thousands of dollars so it doesn’t count’
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let's all pray for the Great Book to save us from the expected
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On July 20 2020 02:10 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:05 Alucen-Will- wrote:On July 20 2020 02:02 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:57 stilt wrote:On July 20 2020 01:54 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 20 2020 01:43 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
I mean 5 doesn't matter, not only is this an online tournament, it's at best a special event, which is the type many Kongs have won. Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys There are a lot of HSC tho. The 20th and the one who ended with Parting vs Flash have a strong signification for me at least. (and Taeja' streak was still amazing regardless of the importance of the tourney) Don't get me wrong I love the events, it's probably the best entertainment sc2 has going for it. I just don't feel like they offer much in terms of reputation or legacy to the players. Starleagues/proleague come first, then bllizzcon/katowice, then the smaller yet still stacked weekenders, then events like HSCs. At least for me. Thats why I never spoke too highly of player like Taeja compared to most of the foreign community. Its always been fair to think this way in my opinion. The idea that back in the 2014-15 era that you could compare weekend tournaments to the Kespa players starleagues/gsl victories was and still is kind of a joke. Korean elitists were only elitists about the quality of starcraft. Not really for any unjustifiable reason that others were annoyed by Well no they weren’t, there was lots of amazing, high level Starcraft played at all sorts of weekend tournaments that was discounted with mental gymnastics. That’s what was annoying. Plus a lack of respect for the skillset needed to perform well in a marathon weekender. Doesn’t mean Starleagues aren’t the pinnacle of the game either, just got fucking annoying when TaeJa kept beating stacked fields and ‘oh well they don’t care about thousands of dollars so it doesn’t count’
I was an active forum member here during that time and I can say that most people considered Taeja an elite player even without a Code S victory. Dowplaying Taeja's skill level was really as much a jest as anything else.
Most LR commenters know that Taeja is an elite talent
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I am cheering for Serral, the doubters are to confident against our Lord and Saviour right now
also I really need my "zerg op" narrative to not be diminished XD
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On July 20 2020 02:06 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 20 2020 01:56 Nakajin wrote:
You know I'm still somewhat working on a history of Starcraft and I'm at the point in 2012 when I probably should be watching a bo12 of Violet vs Leenock and ten thousand Parting soul Train, I'll take Serral dunking on Trap for now. Oh that’s intriguing, refreshing yourself or prepping something for public consumption? I’ve long felt BW or SC2 would make for a great in-depth documentary series, so many great stories there It's a year by year review for everyone, I published the 2010 one like 6 months ago as a blog, the 2011 one at least should see the light of day relatively soon, after that we'll see going forward lol.
Any issues with VoDs? I was tempted myself to embark on such a tortuous endeavour but I’m not sure what happened with all the old GomTV era GSL VoDs or the MLG era ones.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On July 20 2020 02:12 Alucen-Will- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:10 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 20 2020 02:05 Alucen-Will- wrote:On July 20 2020 02:02 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:57 stilt wrote:On July 20 2020 01:54 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:
[quote]
Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys There are a lot of HSC tho. The 20th and the one who ended with Parting vs Flash have a strong signification for me at least. (and Taeja' streak was still amazing regardless of the importance of the tourney) Don't get me wrong I love the events, it's probably the best entertainment sc2 has going for it. I just don't feel like they offer much in terms of reputation or legacy to the players. Starleagues/proleague come first, then bllizzcon/katowice, then the smaller yet still stacked weekenders, then events like HSCs. At least for me. Thats why I never spoke too highly of player like Taeja compared to most of the foreign community. Its always been fair to think this way in my opinion. The idea that back in the 2014-15 era that you could compare weekend tournaments to the Kespa players starleagues/gsl victories was and still is kind of a joke. Korean elitists were only elitists about the quality of starcraft. Not really for any unjustifiable reason that others were annoyed by Well no they weren’t, there was lots of amazing, high level Starcraft played at all sorts of weekend tournaments that was discounted with mental gymnastics. That’s what was annoying. Plus a lack of respect for the skillset needed to perform well in a marathon weekender. Doesn’t mean Starleagues aren’t the pinnacle of the game either, just got fucking annoying when TaeJa kept beating stacked fields and ‘oh well they don’t care about thousands of dollars so it doesn’t count’ I was an active forum member here during that time and I can say that most people considered Taeja an elite player even without a Code S victory. Dowplaying Taeja's skill level was really as much a jest as anything else. Most LR commenters know that Taeja is an elite talent
I’d say that largely was the case yeah, but my definition of a Korean elitist isn’t really the majority of LR posters.
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Canada8991 Posts
On July 20 2020 02:12 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:06 Nakajin wrote:On July 20 2020 02:01 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 20 2020 01:56 Nakajin wrote:
You know I'm still somewhat working on a history of Starcraft and I'm at the point in 2012 when I probably should be watching a bo12 of Violet vs Leenock and ten thousand Parting soul Train, I'll take Serral dunking on Trap for now. Oh that’s intriguing, refreshing yourself or prepping something for public consumption? I’ve long felt BW or SC2 would make for a great in-depth documentary series, so many great stories there It's a year by year review for everyone, I published the 2010 one like 6 months ago as a blog, the 2011 one at least should see the light of day relatively soon, after that we'll see going forward lol. Any issues with VoDs? I was tempted myself to embark on such a tortuous endeavour but I’m not sure what happened with all the old GomTV era GSL VoDs or the MLG era ones.
So many issue lol
Sometime you fall on Russian rebroadcasts of MLG games tho. IPL, NASL and (mostly) Dreamhack VOD are almost intact.
GSL and GSTL is hit or miss depending on the season.
Recaping games from TLDR thread is pretty enjoying so it compensate
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I think even Artosis might not be able to curse Serral to lose in this situation.
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I do worry for Serral a bit
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On July 20 2020 02:08 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 02:06 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 02:03 TaKeTV wrote:On July 20 2020 02:02 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:57 stilt wrote:On July 20 2020 01:54 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:
[quote]
Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys There are a lot of HSC tho. The 20th and the one who ended with Parting vs Flash have a strong signification for me at least. (and Taeja' streak was still amazing regardless of the importance of the tourney) Don't get me wrong I love the events, it's probably the best entertainment sc2 has going for it. I just don't feel like they offer much in terms of reputation or legacy to the players. Starleagues/proleague come first, then bllizzcon/katowice, then the smaller yet still stacked weekenders, then events like HSCs. At least for me. Thats why I never spoke too highly of player like Taeja compared to most of the foreign community. rating smaller weekenders above HSC... check the lineup, check the format. By small weekenders I mean like IEM or Super Tournaments/kespa cups etc. Not many events can compete with HSC in terms of format sure (I actually really wish more of them adopted the larger groups and double elim brackets), but in terms of lineup I'm really not sure HSC has the upper hand there. HSC20: Serral, Reynor, Clem, Bunny, Cure, INnoVation, PartinG, Stats, Trap, Zest, SpeCial, TIME; Taeja, Solar, soO, .... and a hell lot of European pros. I think that easily beats most lineups by itself? Sorry hits a nerve when people make HSC sound like a 2nd tier tour when the lineup most of the time is top-notch and the format harder / more fair. D:
Actually yeah that's a solid lineup I'll give you that. Way better than some of the 'bigger' weekenders like Asus ROG or LoTV Dreamhacks.
But personally I'd still rate most korean weekenders, specifically super tournaments, kespa cups, or the old IEMs a bit higher. You can't really compete with having all the korean big dogs in the same event.
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I am rooting for inner Zest in Trap and kill Serral like Zest did this year at Katowice
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On July 20 2020 02:15 Akio wrote:
I think even Artosis might not be able to curse Serral to lose in this situation.
Only the spirit of Fruitdealer can save Trap!
Time to make Protoss look possible!
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I'm pretty much the biggest Serral fanboy, but Trap winning here would be so awesome! 2014 was his last tournament victory?
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United States33707 Posts
I just hope for some more wonky cheeses instead of the usual glaive shit. I'm down for a good cannon rush 
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call me crazy but i think trap's carrier deathball play can take serral down if it comes to it
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EPT
