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On July 20 2020 01:46 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:44 JJH777 wrote:On July 20 2020 01:39 TaKeTV wrote:I feel bad for Starcraft fans and Dreamhack as organizer as well as any caster. Both series were atrocious. I don't "mind" players winning that are potentially not my favorite but at least the games should be good. Thats so sad  Traps games were amazing. I dont want to sound pissy but I really don't think they were good games. It might be that you enjoyed them, maybe you are a Trap fan but in simple Starcraft terms, that wasn't good Starcraft. Its fine to enjoy some trashmovies for example or also to dislike a movie that in terms of movies is good (acting, cinematography etc) but that really doesnt elevate this series to anything. Not Traps fault though.
What do you mean that in Starcraft terms it wasn't good Starcraft? It's your opinion , not the gold standard
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Hell yeah, who on day 1 would have predicted that people would be whining about Protoss in the finals?
Trap already delivering!
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On July 20 2020 01:47 Fango wrote:
Traps games were good because seeing protoss win against zerg is rare nowadays and no one wants to see the same ZvZ final for the 500th time, they weren't good games in terms of actual games.
Can you actually get genuinely good PvZ games?
I’d love to see some. I can see some games I appreciate from an execution sense, occasionally a real clown fiesta but an actual high-level back and forth game?
I’d contend that LotV is doing pretty well in that PvZ is the only actual bad matchup now when it comes to high level tournament play at least.
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On July 20 2020 01:46 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:44 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:38 geokilla wrote:
Best part is, Aligulac had it near at 50/50. But this was more like 5/95 for Serral Seriously? Now I feel like an idiot for not placing bets if some of the odds are that far off I placed bets. I had Reynor ML at 1.305, Cure + 2.5 at 1.227 and Over 3.5 maps for Cure vs Serral at 1.311. My bankroll is now gone and I'm back to where I started. Rode it from $150 to $800, and now back to $150 lol.
Why people keep betting on Starcraft after the damage it's done to the scene multiple times I'll never get.
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United States33707 Posts
On July 20 2020 01:51 raff100 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:46 TaKeTV wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 JJH777 wrote:On July 20 2020 01:39 TaKeTV wrote:I feel bad for Starcraft fans and Dreamhack as organizer as well as any caster. Both series were atrocious. I don't "mind" players winning that are potentially not my favorite but at least the games should be good. Thats so sad Traps games were amazing. I dont want to sound pissy but I really don't think they were good games. It might be that you enjoyed them, maybe you are a Trap fan but in simple Starcraft terms, that wasn't good Starcraft. Its fine to enjoy some trashmovies for example or also to dislike a movie that in terms of movies is good (acting, cinematography etc) but that really doesnt elevate this series to anything. Not Traps fault though. What do you mean that in Starcraft terms it wasn't good Starcraft? It's your opinion , not the gold standard
The average sports match kinda sucks, but our memories work out so that we only remember the good parts. On that note, how was last night's UFC? 
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On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 20 2020 01:43 Elentos wrote:On July 20 2020 01:41 Morbidius wrote:
Lets see what Trap is fighting against in the finals:
1. He is playing his worst matchup.
2. He is playing an imbalanced matchup.
3. He playing as the race that gets affected more by the high ping.
4. He's against the best(?) Zerg in the world.
5. He is a natural kong. I mean 5 doesn't matter, not only is this an online tournament, it's at best a special event, which is the type many Kongs have won. Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS.
Which was weird, his T was so freaking strong, he was a true prodigy, I think he is still the terran player who impressed me the most.
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On July 20 2020 01:51 raff100 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:46 TaKeTV wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 JJH777 wrote:On July 20 2020 01:39 TaKeTV wrote:I feel bad for Starcraft fans and Dreamhack as organizer as well as any caster. Both series were atrocious. I don't "mind" players winning that are potentially not my favorite but at least the games should be good. Thats so sad Traps games were amazing. I dont want to sound pissy but I really don't think they were good games. It might be that you enjoyed them, maybe you are a Trap fan but in simple Starcraft terms, that wasn't good Starcraft. Its fine to enjoy some trashmovies for example or also to dislike a movie that in terms of movies is good (acting, cinematography etc) but that really doesnt elevate this series to anything. Not Traps fault though. What do you mean that in Starcraft terms it wasn't good Starcraft? It's your opinion , not the gold standard
he means that the only time a protoss wins PvZ its due to weird shit they pull, because nothing else is working and seeing this for another time is far from being a "good game". he means balance of the matchup and its shit.
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tfw you'd rather have seen a bo7 ZvZ than ZvP
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Wait, 15 minute break?
Guess I'll be back then, See ya.
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On July 20 2020 01:52 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:46 geokilla wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:38 geokilla wrote:
Best part is, Aligulac had it near at 50/50. But this was more like 5/95 for Serral Seriously? Now I feel like an idiot for not placing bets if some of the odds are that far off I placed bets. I had Reynor ML at 1.305, Cure + 2.5 at 1.227 and Over 3.5 maps for Cure vs Serral at 1.311. My bankroll is now gone and I'm back to where I started. Rode it from $150 to $800, and now back to $150 lol. Why people keep betting on Starcraft after the damage it's done to the scene multiple times I'll never get.
I like making money and I realize that no matter whether betting is legal or popular, matchfixers would still sell games to the underground bettors just as sAviOr's ring did.
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On July 20 2020 01:52 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:46 geokilla wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:38 geokilla wrote:
Best part is, Aligulac had it near at 50/50. But this was more like 5/95 for Serral Seriously? Now I feel like an idiot for not placing bets if some of the odds are that far off I placed bets. I had Reynor ML at 1.305, Cure + 2.5 at 1.227 and Over 3.5 maps for Cure vs Serral at 1.311. My bankroll is now gone and I'm back to where I started. Rode it from $150 to $800, and now back to $150 lol. Why people keep betting on Starcraft after the damage it's done to the scene multiple times I'll never get.
Agreed.
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On July 20 2020 01:53 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
Wait, 15 minute break?
Guess I'll be back then, See ya.
Sounds like more camera downtime
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On July 20 2020 01:52 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 20 2020 01:43 Elentos wrote:On July 20 2020 01:41 Morbidius wrote:
Lets see what Trap is fighting against in the finals:
1. He is playing his worst matchup.
2. He is playing an imbalanced matchup.
3. He playing as the race that gets affected more by the high ping.
4. He's against the best(?) Zerg in the world.
5. He is a natural kong. I mean 5 doesn't matter, not only is this an online tournament, it's at best a special event, which is the type many Kongs have won. Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. Which was weird, his T was so freaking strong, he was a true prodigy, I think he is still the terran player who impressed me the most.
Definitely the weirdest too, not spectacular at micro, macro and no fancy builds. Just good decisions and engagements all game.
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On July 20 2020 01:52 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:47 Fango wrote:
Traps games were good because seeing protoss win against zerg is rare nowadays and no one wants to see the same ZvZ final for the 500th time, they weren't good games in terms of actual games. Can you actually get genuinely good PvZ games? I’d love to see some. I can see some games I appreciate from an execution sense, occasionally a real clown fiesta but an actual high-level back and forth game? I’d contend that LotV is doing pretty well in that PvZ is the only actual bad matchup now when it comes to high level tournament play at least.
I'd argue Pvt is getting worse too currently as it feels so snowbally.
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On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 20 2020 01:43 Elentos wrote:On July 20 2020 01:41 Morbidius wrote:
Lets see what Trap is fighting against in the finals:
1. He is playing his worst matchup.
2. He is playing an imbalanced matchup.
3. He playing as the race that gets affected more by the high ping.
4. He's against the best(?) Zerg in the world.
5. He is a natural kong. I mean 5 doesn't matter, not only is this an online tournament, it's at best a special event, which is the type many Kongs have won. Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS.
This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys 
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On July 20 2020 01:54 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 20 2020 01:43 Elentos wrote:On July 20 2020 01:41 Morbidius wrote:
Lets see what Trap is fighting against in the finals:
1. He is playing his worst matchup.
2. He is playing an imbalanced matchup.
3. He playing as the race that gets affected more by the high ping.
4. He's against the best(?) Zerg in the world.
5. He is a natural kong. I mean 5 doesn't matter, not only is this an online tournament, it's at best a special event, which is the type many Kongs have won. Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys
At that point the Kespa teams were already gone though and we entered a wild west phase.
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Canada8991 Posts
You know I'm still somewhat working on a history of Starcraft and I'm at the point in 2012 when I probably should be watching a bo12 of Violet vs Leenock and ten thousand Parting soul Train, I'll take Serral dunking on Trap for now.
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United States33707 Posts
On July 20 2020 01:54 Akio wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:52 Elentos wrote:On July 20 2020 01:46 geokilla wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:38 geokilla wrote:
Best part is, Aligulac had it near at 50/50. But this was more like 5/95 for Serral Seriously? Now I feel like an idiot for not placing bets if some of the odds are that far off I placed bets. I had Reynor ML at 1.305, Cure + 2.5 at 1.227 and Over 3.5 maps for Cure vs Serral at 1.311. My bankroll is now gone and I'm back to where I started. Rode it from $150 to $800, and now back to $150 lol. Why people keep betting on Starcraft after the damage it's done to the scene multiple times I'll never get. Agreed.
I don't really get this thinking.
Illegalizing gambling doesn't do anything—in fact, the match-fixing in StarCraft all occurred due to people trying to profit off ILLEGAL betting sites in Korea. If someone is betting on a legal site, they're not affecting the likelihood of match-fixing in any way.
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On July 20 2020 01:54 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:50 Ej_ wrote:On July 20 2020 01:49 Fango wrote:On July 20 2020 01:48 Morbidius wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 Waxangel wrote:On July 20 2020 01:43 Elentos wrote:On July 20 2020 01:41 Morbidius wrote:
Lets see what Trap is fighting against in the finals:
1. He is playing his worst matchup.
2. He is playing an imbalanced matchup.
3. He playing as the race that gets affected more by the high ping.
4. He's against the best(?) Zerg in the world.
5. He is a natural kong. I mean 5 doesn't matter, not only is this an online tournament, it's at best a special event, which is the type many Kongs have won. Korean fan-logic is very narrative driven, so the outcome of thsi tournament will decide whether it's "just tier 2" or if it counts toward Traps' kong count as a major What matters to Korean fan logic is that after Serral wins it becomes another irrelevant event. Who cares about Trap? I'll have you know I was saying HSCs weren't a premier event back when Taeja was winning all of them as well But that's because your forte is against all players out of GSL, which included Taeja who was the #1 public enemy of KeSPA-wankers in HotS. This may be true, but I also said the same about HSC when Zest was winning all of them and he was one of KeSPA's golden boys
There are a lot of HSC tho.
The 20th and the one who ended with Parting vs Flash have a strong signification for me at least. (and Taeja' streak was still amazing regardless of the importance of the tourney)
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On July 20 2020 01:51 raff100 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 01:46 TaKeTV wrote:On July 20 2020 01:44 JJH777 wrote:On July 20 2020 01:39 TaKeTV wrote:I feel bad for Starcraft fans and Dreamhack as organizer as well as any caster. Both series were atrocious. I don't "mind" players winning that are potentially not my favorite but at least the games should be good. Thats so sad Traps games were amazing. I dont want to sound pissy but I really don't think they were good games. It might be that you enjoyed them, maybe you are a Trap fan but in simple Starcraft terms, that wasn't good Starcraft. Its fine to enjoy some trashmovies for example or also to dislike a movie that in terms of movies is good (acting, cinematography etc) but that really doesnt elevate this series to anything. Not Traps fault though. What do you mean that in Starcraft terms it wasn't good Starcraft? It's your opinion , not the gold standard
Nice, I love passive aggressive forum users. It wasn't good Starcraft.
1) No game was close at all / not very competetive
2) The series was way below average bo5 duration (even though that doesn't neccessarily mean bad)
3) there wasn't really strategic depth in the series
I'd say those are some legit neutral aspects to judge a game. In any case, I'll leave you with that.
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EPT
